Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Solo Wing Pixy]

I just can't see that, combined arms still means a level of coordination, and we just don't see that in Delta. You can't argue that the Windermeres were anything but outnumbered from the beginning. The reasonable explanation for the mooks were that these guys were castoff in a backwater sector. In combined arms tactics, you still have to do your part. The tactics of a carrier centric NUNS fleet means the pilots have to be especially competent, because they are both the striking arm and just as important the defending arm of the heavy guns and the more vulnerable carriers.

From that perspective, even if the individuals aren't all aces, a full squadron of them should be able to work together to fight off the ace with few if any losses. Because if they can't do that, then they would fare very poorly against any kind of truly organized fighter attacks.

Good point. Another possibility could be corruption in the NUNS leadership and regional differences in management, but its just speculation at this point. The reason for the continued string of windermere victories could then be due to the fact that the var all but shuts down communication/coordination(as part of the fleet in episode 15 were visibly affected and unable to act before keith went in), along with the notion that the regular forces may not know how to deal with the sigur valens and other possible protoculture technologies in that situation. Then again, var infected pilots did show some organisation back in episode 4.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Solo Wing Pixy

[calubin_175]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned but "Kairos" is a related term to Chronos. Each being a Greek term to express "Time".

Chronos = Sequential or continuous time

Kairos = A period in time, like a season

Nice way to tie the VF-31A to the YF-30...

So Chronos is a a concept that is perpetual and Kairos is just one of the few derivatives that will be in service for a period of time.

[sketchley]

So Chronos is a a concept that is perpetual and Kairos is just one of the few derivatives that will be in service for a period of time.

Not really. See the opening definition on Wikipedia for the meaning of Kairos, and how it compares with chronos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairos

(the really short version: Chronos = quantitative time, Kairos = qualitative time; but that leaves sooo many of the nuances out)

Edited July 18, 2016 by sketchley

[Zinjo]

Not really. See the opening definition on Wikipedia for the meaning of Kairos, and how it compares with chronos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kairos

(the really short version: Chronos = quantitative time, Kairos = qualitative time; but that leaves sooo many of the nuances out)

Having studied Greek in another life, the language is very, very specific and equally complex... So the nuances are indeed not served with the "short version"

The context and specific word choices associated with the terms matter a lot. Things like, if the words are definite or indefinite, if they are masculine, feminine or neuter, the type of verb used, etc, etc.. all affects how the subject terms are fully understood.

In the most broad sense one could understand them in the way Calubin_175 describes, but Sketchley's assertion is certainly correct.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Zinjo

[squaresphere]

Just how bad is interstellar network security that a virus could infect the WHOLE damn network within a couple of hours? I mean if it was something that was just cooked up for this occasion it feels like a backdoor access situation. I mean people are dumb so the could "Click here for a free Walkure concert!" work for personal devices but come ON!

[RedWolf]

Okay I venture to guess this Catamaran-type ship that Windermere uses is a gunship-carrier combo.

Very different from Macross Galaxy's battleship-carrier Catamaran type that they use as escorts like the Dulfim. However we saw a non-military version of that with the Refugee ship in the movies. In the movies though the Deneb class serve as gunships against the Vajra nest on what presume to be Gaul 4.

Windermere uses their Deneb variant as a pure battleship.

Edited July 26, 2016 by RedWolf

[Ghostbear0]

Well security in macross has always kinda sucked. I mean 7 had multiple alian infiltration and the Frontier had a whole bloody vajra hive Isamu's shenanigans never mind Sharon's pointed to some serious security issues. Hell that no dots were conected in regards to the Var shows serious issus with security and whatever passes for the CDC.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just how bad is interstellar network security that a virus could infect the WHOLE damn network within a couple of hours? I mean if it was something that was just cooked up for this occasion it feels like a backdoor access situation. I mean people are dumb so the could "Click here for a free Walkure concert!" work for personal devices but come ON!

Apparently it's no worse than today's... but then, based on my day job experience as a network security expert I have to say I don't find it anywhere near as unreasonable as the "Hollywood hacking" on Voldor.

That virus that Reina apparently cooked up was distributed through a civilian netcom infrastructure, and that kind of thing is distressingly common in this day in age. How many tens of thousands of smartphones ended up as part of a botnet because their owners downloaded Pokemon GO from an untrusted source? There are MILLIONS of infected smart phones in Asia with rootkits that are driving porn ad clicks that were accidentally installed because of unsafe web browsing habits. If the virus has the ability to jump from network to network as some modern polymorphics do, then someone connecting their smartphone to the "office" WiFi on a military base could conceivably spread the virus to a lightly defended military system (and from there it could conceivably propagate into more sensitive systems).

You would be surprised and depressed by just how plausible what happened in the last episode really is... people can be dumb as hell sometimes.

Well security in macross has always kinda sucked. I mean 7 had multiple alian infiltration and the Frontier had a whole bloody vajra hive Isamu's shenanigans never mind Sharon's pointed to some serious security issues. Hell that no dots were conected in regards to the Var shows serious issus with security and whatever passes for the CDC.

That's not information security though... that's a physical intrusion into an emigrant ship, and it's DAMNED hard to secure something that size in two dimensions today, where the emigrant fleet needs to worry about three.

Sharon doesn't count, because some dumb cluck decided it was A-OK to plug her into the Macross's main computer systems... giving her direct or indirect access to not just the city-wide holographic systems, but everything else the New UN Forces Command had access to. That's almost a social engineering attack rather than a netcom security breach.

The Var thing... well... tracking that down may have been a bit more difficult since it sounds like it was somewhat difficult to secure live Var syndrome sufferers, and there were plenty of incidents where Windermere applies and ruins water were not directly connected (because those incidents were caused by biological fold wave transmissions instead).

[Ghostbear0]

On the one hand yes they have to worry about 3 dimensions on the other they are in a sealed system with rather difinitavly limited access points. And while that's physical security yes I don't expect their information security to be any better (and wasn't as much of a thing when the shows were made.).

[Seto Kaiba]

On the one hand yes they have to worry about 3 dimensions on the other they are in a sealed system with rather difinitavly limited access points. And while that's physical security yes I don't expect their information security to be any better (and wasn't as much of a thing when the shows were made.).

On the perimeter security front... limited access points aren't necessarily limited. We've got plenty of examples of weapons on Valkyries and other things that are perfectly capable of making a new impromptu "access point".

(I think our earliest example of this was Hikaru and Minmay reboarding the Macross via a hull breach...)

[Ghostbear0]

I'd say having holes put in your ship not causing some sort of alarm a failure in security. I'm not saying getting the odd agent abord should be impossible just that the regularity in it happens points to somewhat porus security. Also the Sharon thing totally counts the number of people in with hooking an AI into the Macross's system points to an institutional missunderstanding of how security works.

[kalvasflam]

gg_Macross_Delta_-_17_D187A862.mkv_snapshot_15.39_2016.07.25_18.23.16.jpg

Okay I venture to guess this Catamaran-type ship that Windermere uses is a gunship-carrier combo.

Very different from Macross Galaxy's battleship-carrier Catamaran type that they use as escorts like the Dulfim. However we saw a non-military version of that with the Refugee ship in the movies. In the movies though the Deneb class serve as gunships against the Vajra nest on what presume to be Gaul 4.

Windermere uses their Deneb variant as a pure battleship.

Thanks for putting this up, I've dubbed this unit, the Fat Quarter. I mean literally, this is a Quarter style ship without the legs, and it's well, kind of fat. Like the Quarter and the Dulfim had an illegitimate child that no one wanted to talk about, and they quietly shuffled it off to the Windermeres as a cast off.

I for one would like to see this ship in action, and getting blown up. The odd thing is, if you look at that image, you notice quite a few Deneb variants around, no way to easily compare size, but this is apparently a carrier/gunship combo, and I wonder if the Deneb variant are basically escorts. This is one thing that the Macross series of late has lacked, not as much ship to ship combat, especially true once you strip away the fights using the Quarters.

The funny thing about the series is that Reina could be potentially the most dangerous member of Walkure, or even the entire Elysion crew. It's the quiet ones you have to watch out for. I wonder if they could hack in some convenient self destruct codes to the Drakkens and their motherships. (won't do diddly squat against the SV, but who cares, once you take away all of its support units, the SV is nothing more than a glorified one shot terror weapon)

[grigolosi]

I could see her hacking in some "new" OFP's into the flight control and fire control computers on the Drakens.....lets see how well they "ride the wind" with uncontrollable flight controls and weapon systems. Hell even have her hack the AI to eject them as soon as they try to use their weapons.

[JB0]

I'd say having holes put in your ship not causing some sort of alarm a failure in security. I'm not saying getting the odd agent abord should be impossible just that the regularity in it happens points to somewhat porus security. Also the Sharon thing totally counts the number of people in with hooking an AI into the Macross's system points to an institutional missunderstanding of how security works.

Honestly? Dome breaches probably shouldn't set off an alarm every time.

Since auto-repair seems to be so robust, and the dome is an insanely large pile of spaceglass... I imagine they take micrometeor strikes all the time. If every breach set off an alarm people would rapidly start ignoring the alarms because "it's just another micrometeor hole, the auto-repair system will have it patched before we can even get eyes on it."

Save the buzzer for when the-auto-repair fails.

And yeah, the Sharon incident hopefully got people fired. Out of a cannon.

I have NO IDEA who thought wiring a "black box"* computer into the central computer for the entire defense network was a good idea. That shouldn't even be part of the same SYSTEM as the concert hall.

*No pun intended. Honestly.

[Ghostbear0]

I images the some glass is tough enough that most micro metiors bounce and I'm not talking a city wide siren I'm talking an alert in maintenance logs so after you've had an infiltration you can narrow down what it might be and alert security if a similar breach happens again. This type of thinking is probably why my players prefer brute force to stealth when I GM.

[JB0]

Okay, yeah. A note in the logs makes a lot more sense.

...

And I may be overestimating the micrometeor threat. I just realized everything I've seen about their velocity is orbital, not free-space. I apparently have no actual idea what the impact hazards of non-orbital spaceflight are.

[Nazareno2012]

If the Aerial Knights proceed in actually attacking a NUNS core world, such as Eden or Earth, it will be interesting to see what central NUNS is using, as they are implied to have the best equipment. Also, they would most likely have more competent pilots than in backwater areas, and if they have a really good pilot like Isamu, I don't think the Aerial Knights would come back from that mission alive.

[NightmarePlus]

If the Aerial Knights proceed in actually attacking a NUNS core world, such as Eden or Earth, it will be interesting to see what central NUNS is using, as they are implied to have the best equipment. Also, they would most likely have more competent pilots than in backwater areas, and if they have a really good pilot like Isamu, I don't think the Aerial Knights would come back from that mission alive.

I'd be extremely disappointed if the writers have the Aerial Knights steam roll though even the Federal Forces with little issue and/or has the Feds using the 171 instead of a full spec 24 if they do end up attacking the core worlds.

[Ghostbear0]

It would be cool if that was the reason for the conversation with Casim next episode they strike at a core world get their hat handed to them barely make it out alive and he realizes they just pokedcthe bear with a stick. Somehow I doubt that will happen though. But I can just see it fold in see a pair of battle class and a few thousand VF-24's..... Don't mind us just passing through.... Fold out.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Ghostbear0

[azrael]

It would be cool if that was the reason for the conversation with Casim next episode they strike at a core world get their hat handed to them barely make it out alive and he realizes they just pokedcthe bear with a stick. Somehow I doubt that will happen though. But I can just see it fold in see a pair of battle class and a few thousand VF-24's..... Don't mind us just passing through.... Fold out.

If only. But you know, this show has to last half a year.

[Nazareno2012]

If only. But you know, this show has to last half a year.

Having Central NUNS involved would make the show more interesting IMO.

[Seto Kaiba]

And yeah, the Sharon incident hopefully got people fired. Out of a cannon.

I have NO IDEA who thought wiring a "black box"* computer into the central computer for the entire defense network was a good idea. That shouldn't even be part of the same SYSTEM as the concert hall.

*No pun intended. Honestly.

Oh, I'm sure someone... most likely several someones... got read the riot act. We know the Venus Sound Factory and Macross Consortium took one on the chin as a result, what with Sharon Apple's music being legislated off the shelves for a few years and a ban being instituted on sentient/responsive virtuoids.

I images the some glass is tough enough that most micro metiors bounce and I'm not talking a city wide siren I'm talking an alert in maintenance logs so after you've had an infiltration you can narrow down what it might be and alert security if a similar breach happens again. This type of thinking is probably why my players prefer brute force to stealth when I GM.

Indications are, via Macross Frontier, that the dome is protected by some kind of low-level energy shield most of the time to compensate for it being less tough than the rest of the hull.

I can certainly understand the RPG implications... my usual players treated the anti-ship cannons on the Strike Valkyrie and Super Valkyrie II as a "portable hole". This tendency found its fullest expression in an experimental MOSPEADA game late last year, where they seemed to be a bigger threat to brick or masonry walls than the Kool-Aid man.

If the Aerial Knights proceed in actually attacking a NUNS core world, such as Eden or Earth, it will be interesting to see what central NUNS is using, as they are implied to have the best equipment. Also, they would most likely have more competent pilots than in backwater areas, and if they have a really good pilot like Isamu, I don't think the Aerial Knights would come back from that mission alive.

Considering there only appear to be a few hundred Aerial Knights at most... that would end badly for them without Heinz being able to Var everyone before the fight really begins. Windermere's military seems to be about the size of the typical emigrant fleet military thirty years ago. Even a medium-sized fleet like Macross-7 would outnumber them four or five to one.

I'd be extremely disappointed if the writers have the Aerial Knights steam roll though even the Federal Forces with little issue and/or has the Feds using the 171 instead of a full spec 24 if they do end up attacking the core worlds.

All told, it looks like Windermere's plan is to avoid doing anything that might lead to a direct confrontation with the Federal New UN Forces... they wanna mind-control the entire galaxy before the big guns can show up on their doorstep and demand an explanation.

Having Central NUNS involved would make the show more interesting IMO.

Let's be honest... having the Federal New UN Spacy wade in would make this show over.

[Nazareno2012]

Let's be honest... having the Federal New UN Spacy wade in would make this show over.

If NUNS federal forces do appear in the show, it should be towards the end (maybe at episode 25 or 26) and would act as reinforcements when Chaos and all the local forces are already on the verge of defeat. Just like in the second Frontier movie with forces from other colony fleets instead of federal forces.

[UN Spacy]

Dat Walkure tech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Ip1eD2g0A

[Ghostbear0]

Yeh we've wondered what the physical gear looked like. I don't think anyone pegged it as quit that ....... minimal..... ye minimal works.

[RedWolf]

Well that is miniaturization for you. Basara and Mylene had to wear a harness. Milky Dolls had theirs on their dresses shoulder pads now Walkure has them as sport bras.

[squaresphere]

I'm not sure if it was addressed but are they "wearing" anythings besides their undergarment gear? I mean would they still need to wear actual clothes to protect from when they fall and stuff? I still prefer how they explained Sheryl's holographic set.

[Nazareno2012]

I'm not sure if it was addressed but are they "wearing" anythings besides their undergarment gear? I mean would they still need to wear actual clothes to protect from when they fall and stuff? I still prefer how they explained Sheryl's holographic set.

I think they "actually" (not holographically projected) wear their uniform over those undergarments. While those undergarments IMO are not good for safety (the rockets could burn the wearer's legs), they are surely good for fan service!

[RedWolf]

I think they "actually" (not holographically projected) wear their uniform over those undergarments. While those undergarments IMO are not good for safety (the rockets could burn the wearer's legs), they are surely good for fan service!

That is where the anti-heat cream comes in. Wakure comment on it in the Freyja side story manga after the first visit to Al Shahal.

[grigolosi]

Wow that is taking Victoria's secret up to a new level....rocket powered panties and bras. I would like to know who the "lucky" woman was that tested those for the first time. She had some nerves of steel.

[Seto Kaiba]

Dat Walkure tech.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2Ip1eD2g0A

Well, the ultracompact hologram tech goes all the way back to DYRL? and Macross II: Lovers Again... but this is exactly what I didn't want to see in Macross Delta. It's pure fanservice of the most shameless variety. Like Makina, you can tell this was done pretty much entirely for the professional cosplayers and h-dojinshi artists to exploit.

[RedWolf]

Wow that is taking Victoria's secret up to a new level....rocket powered panties and bras. I would like to know who the "lucky" woman was that tested those for the first time. She had some nerves of steel.

Well Sheryl had the gas rockets in The False Songstress.

Interesting development in the Keith manga. Why the Aerial Knghts are so confident on striking NUN core worlds.

Windermere Protoculture ruins have Fold Quartz. Local NUNS had most of it monitored with its garrison however some like the twins sell Fold Quartz pendants. The Exdel variety of Windermere apples are grown near the ruins.

I can see them having access to super fold drives.

[Seto Kaiba]

Interesting development in the Keith manga. Why the Aerial Knghts are so confident on striking NUN core worlds.

Windermere Protoculture ruins have Fold Quartz. Local NUNS had most of it monitored with its garrison however some like the twins sell Fold Quartz pendants. The Exdel variety of Windermere apples are grown near the ruins.I can see them having access to super fold drives.

I'm not sure I'd call that a development... after Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy, it's pretty much a given.

As the New UN Gov't doesn't appear to have recreated the Protoculture's technique for making synthetic fold quartz yet, the two main sources of the stuff are Protoculture ruins found on various planets and the corpses of Vajra. The latter's a bit of a tall order for a couple of different reasons, so ruins are likely where most of the NUN's glowing rocks come from. It's pretty much inevitable that Windermere has zero-time fold technology, considering the planet is surrounded by a dimensional fault. To get anywhere quickly, or broadcast Heinz's songs to planets in the rest of the galaxy laglessly, they'd have to have zero-time fold drives and a zero-time fold communications system is mentioned in passing as part of the enhancements the Epsilon Group provided for Heinz's song shring.

[squaresphere]

Well, the ultracompact hologram tech goes all the way back to DYRL? and Macross II: Lovers Again... but this is exactly what I didn't want to see in Macross Delta. It's pure fanservice of the most shameless variety. Like Makina, you can tell this was done pretty much entirely for the professional cosplayers and h-dojinshi artists to exploit.

Completely agree. Feels like they just wrote in the tech as an afterthought cause it makes NO sense in universe from a battlefield OR stage performance. If you're using holograms for costumes it makes no sense to have the projection UNDER clothes.

[Nazareno2012]

In fairness the rocket belt has some resemblance to a climbing harness, so it makes *some* sense. However it is still very much geared towards fan service.