Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Graham]

Yeah, single barrel and quite large calibre by the look of it.

I'm glad we are seeing a move to more advanced technology in the form of rapid fire rail guns, rather than having them using conventional cased propellant ammunition.

Having them as rail guns also makes it easier to store more ammo in a smaller space.

[SebastianP]

I wouldn't read too much into the "rail gun" name myself, given that they don't *look* like rail guns. It might be that the gun is called that because it's on rails.

Also, gunpod ammunition capacities are another of those "this has to be tardis-tech" items from the official specifications, given how absolutely huge the guns themselves and the rounds for them are. The real world SUU-23/A gun pod held an M61A1 gun and 1,200 rounds. The GPU-5/A held a stripped-down 4-barrel 30 mm gatling and 353 rounds, and was still noticeably bigger. (I need to get my hands on the Hasegawa 1/72 gunpod set, so I can compare them to the VF gunpods...) And a magazine for 1,200 rounds of 30 mm ammunition is famously the size of a VW beetle...

[eko.prasetiyo]

is it possible for elysion to have 3 heavy quantum cannon? one each in hemera and aether. the other on the chest part on storm attack mode. all of 3 cannon are well hidden

[Graham]

I wouldn't read too much into the "rail gun" name myself, given that they don't *look* like rail guns. It might be that the gun is called that because it's on rails.

Also, gunpod ammunition capacities are another of those "this has to be tardis-tech" items from the official specifications, given how absolutely huge the guns themselves and the rounds for them are. The real world SUU-23/A gun pod held an M61A1 gun and 1,200 rounds. The GPU-5/A held a stripped-down 4-barrel 30 mm gatling and 353 rounds, and was still noticeably bigger. (I need to get 1 hands on the Hasegawa 1/72 gunpod set, so I can compare them to the VF gunpods...) And a magazine for 1,200 rounds of 30 mm ammunition is famously the size of a VW beetle...

Not exactly. The whole GAU-8 Avenger canon assembly including barrels, breach mechanism, drive and magazine is about the length of a VW Beetle. The magazine is not as big as the whole car.

[squaresphere]

I wonder what the universe explanation is for having so many new VFs coming out in such a short period of time. YF's sure, they're prototypes and a lot of new tech has been introduced so it makes sense.

But considering the VF25 was built to be a cost conscious, configurable module based multi role fighter, what role is the VF31 supposed to fill?

[Nazareno2012]

I wonder what the universe explanation is for having so many new VFs coming out in such a short period of time. YF's sure, they're prototypes and a lot of new tech has been introduced so it makes sense.

But considering the VF25 was built to be a cost conscious, configurable module based multi role fighter, what role is the VF31 supposed to fill?

Pretty much the same, maybe save for the cost conscious part.

[Seto Kaiba]

I wouldn't read too much into the "rail gun" name myself, given that they don't *look* like rail guns. It might be that the gun is called that because it's on rails.

There really isn't any one set "look" for a railgun... the technology can be packaged quite efficiently even in the real world.

It's very, VERY doubtful that they said "railgun" and didn't actually mean "railgun"... this is hardly the first railgun in Macross.

Also, gunpod ammunition capacities are another of those "this has to be tardis-tech" items from the official specifications, given how absolutely huge the guns themselves and the rounds for them are. The real world SUU-23/A gun pod held an M61A1 gun and 1,200 rounds. The GPU-5/A held a stripped-down 4-barrel 30 mm gatling and 353 rounds, and was still noticeably bigger. (I need to get my hands on the Hasegawa 1/72 gunpod set, so I can compare them to the VF gunpods...) And a magazine for 1,200 rounds of 30 mm ammunition is famously the size of a VW beetle...

Nope. You may want to check your facts before making pronouncements like that, because Macross's creators have definitely shown their work on that front.

Mind you, Macross's gun pods don't hold thousands of rounds... most don't even hold hundreds. The GU-11A held 180-200 rounds, in a helical magazine that wrapped around the barrel assembly and made up the entire front half of the gun's outer shell. Many of the later Valkyries that had gun pods with detachable magazines only carried about 120-150 rounds per magazine and made up for the loss of capacity with spares carried elsewhere on the airframe. The rate of fire's much lower than that of conventional rotary cannons, but the stopping power of each round is orders of magnitude greater and with significantly tighter accuracy to compensate for that loss.

I wonder what the universe explanation is for having so many new VFs coming out in such a short period of time. YF's sure, they're prototypes and a lot of new tech has been introduced so it makes sense.

Simply put... the New UN Government is not a monolithic entity like, say, the US Federal Government. It's more like the European Union, a loose politico-economic union where each member state has a more or less free hand to decide how best to arm its defense forces and can develop its own new weapons. Though, unlike the European Union, the supranational government has its own armed forces and the member state forces are sort of like national guard forces, who can be called upon to bolster the central government's forces if necessary.

The reason we're seeing so many new Valkyries in this time period is because the VF-171 Nightmare Plus was the last federally-mandated main variable fighter of the New UN Forces. After that point, it was up to the various planets and emigrant fleets to decide how best to arm themselves. Some fleets and planets opted to buy export models of fighters used by the federal New UN Forces, while others opted to use specs for the latest federal NUNS fighter that were shared to all the fleets as a starting point to develop their own fighters. The YF-24 Evolution spec that was shared in a lightly censored form became the starting point for the Macross Frontier fleet's YF-25 Prophecy (VF-25 Messiah), Macross Olympia's YF-26, Macross Galaxy's YF-27 Shahar (VF-27 Lucifer), Macross Frontier fleet's YF-29 Durandal, and Uroboros' YF-30 Chronos (VF-31 Kairos and VF-31 Siegfried) and probably several more fighters besides.

But considering the VF25 was built to be a cost conscious, configurable module based multi role fighter, what role is the VF31 supposed to fill?

Very probably the same role... just for a different batch of emigrant planets and fleets.

[kalvasflam]

Imagine the logistical nightmares involved in supporting all these different types. Frontier squadrons goes to Al Shahal, and within two months, they've run out of spare parts and has to be shipped in from the Frontier fleet.

No wonder everyone keep using the VF-17I, the manufacturer of said VF-17 would be very happy. It's as if somehow Lockheed Martin got a stranglehold on the US government, forcing it to buy only F-35s for decades to come no matter how crappy the plane is... oh wait.

Edited June 24, 2016 by kalvasflam

[Seto Kaiba]

Imagine the logistical nightmares involved in supporting all these different types. Frontier squadrons goes to Al Shahal, and within two months, they've run out of spare parts and has to be shipped in from the Frontier fleet.

Probably less of an issue where there are factory satellites or human-built automated factories kicking around that can custom-fab whatever parts are needed.

(That's one of the reasons the Sol system is such an economic and technological powerhouse... they have upwards of twenty factory satellites.)

No wonder everyone keep using the VF-17I, the manufacturer of said VF-17 would be very happy. It's as if somehow Lockheed Martin got a stranglehold on the US government, forcing it to buy only F-35s for decades to come no matter how crappy the plane is... oh wait.

By all accounts, the General Galaxy VF-171 has been so widely used for so long because its cost performance, ease of handling, and versatility are fantastic.

(It's basically everything the F-35 promised to be, with none of the failure to deliver.)

Edited June 24, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[kalvasflam]

By all accounts, the General Galaxy VF-171 has been so widely used for so long because its cost performance, ease of handling, and versatility are fantastic.

(It's basically everything the F-35 promised to be, with none of the failure to deliver.)

Not to mention the NUNS red shirts who get to enjoy a short stress free life when using the VF-17I in combat. And the quality of life is everything.

Edited June 24, 2016 by kalvasflam

[SebastianP]

By all accounts, the General Galaxy VF-171 has been so widely used for so long because its cost performance, ease of handling, and versatility are fantastic.

(It's basically everything the F-35 promised to be, with none of the failure to deliver.)

That, and developing and deploying a modern fighter all on your own dime is *expensive*. Frontier and Galaxy could do it because they have native tech companies able to handle the job; and the reasons they actually did it (aside from keeping those tech companies happy) were because they were 1) moving into Vajra space and were worried; 1) rivals with opposing core ethics both looking for a planet to settle on in the same general neighborhood; and 3) both were having their strings pulled by (or were under the outright control of) megalomaniacs who thought they could use the Vajra to assert control over the rest of humanity, and they needed superior force of arms to make sure it was them who got there first.

During Macross The Ride, both Frontier and Galaxy were trying to bluff the other with the state of their advanced VF programs (Frontier entered the YF-25 Prophecy which was basically a minimal-change YF-24 Evolution, while they were already working on the YF-29 that they were going to use if it came to a *real* fight; Galaxy entered the YF-27-5 Shaher Femail while they were already working on modifying the production VF-27 spec based off of stolen YF-29 specs... and of course both sides were quitely working on their own QF-4000 variants).

Also, Aisha Blanchett must have been hard at work on the YF-30 for some time as well, though apparently the YF-30 ended up being something akin to the YF-24 Evolution: A "public" prototype which anyone was free to develop further, given that the VF-31 is not credited to either Shinsei or LAI, but Surya Aerospace.

Unless of course Aisha left SMS and started Surya after the events of Macross 30...

(MFW Mikumo is another Protoculture survivor found in stasis on Ouroboros and Lady M turns out to be Mina Forte...)

[Seto Kaiba]

That, and developing and deploying a modern fighter all on your own dime is *expensive*. Frontier and Galaxy could do it because they have native tech companies able to handle the job; [...]

... if by "native" you meant "one had regional offices from several interstellar megacorporations and the other is a branch of an interstellar megacorporation", then yes.

The new fighters in Macross Frontier weren't the product of insular little regional developers: the YF-25 Prophecy was a joint venture between the local branches of technology giants Shinsei Industry and Legodt & Angeloni Industries; and the YF-27 Shahar was produced by what was quite literally General Galaxy's giant flying test center and technology showroom.

[...] and the reasons they actually did it (aside from keeping those tech companies happy) were because they were 1) moving into Vajra space and were worried; 1) rivals with opposing core ethics both looking for a planet to settle on in the same general neighborhood; and 3) both were having their strings pulled by (or were under the outright control of) megalomaniacs who thought they could use the Vajra to assert control over the rest of humanity, and they needed superior force of arms to make sure it was them who got there first.

The first "1" is correct. The second "1" (which I'm assuming was supposed to be "2") is not. The "3" is half true for one of the two fleets, but not the other.

During Macross The Ride, both Frontier and Galaxy were trying to bluff the other with the state of their advanced VF programs (Frontier entered the YF-25 Prophecy which was basically a minimal-change YF-24 Evolution, while they were already working on the YF-29 that they were going to use if it came to a *real* fight; Galaxy entered the YF-27-5 Shaher Femail while they were already working on modifying the production VF-27 spec based off of stolen YF-29 specs... and of course both sides were quitely working on their own QF-4000 variants).

Half right... there was bluffing going on, but it was done entirely by General Galaxy, who trotted out misleadingly underpowered prototypes (the YF-27-3 and YF-27-5) that were not at all representative of the final VF-27's specs. The YF-25 Prophecy could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered a "minimally changed" YF-24 Evolution. The YF-29 was being developed in parallel, but not for use against rival fleets... it was developed as a trump card for a decisive battle against the Vajra, and basically too resource-intensive to actually build, so it sat completed but unbuilt for two years.

Also, Aisha Blanchett must have been hard at work on the YF-30 for some time as well, though apparently the YF-30 ended up being something akin to the YF-24 Evolution: A "public" prototype which anyone was free to develop further, given that the VF-31 is not credited to either Shinsei or LAI, but Surya Aerospace.

Aisha had development support from Shinsei Industry and Legodt & Angeloni Industries, and manufacturing support from the factory satellite orbiting Uroboros.

Shinsei may have opted not to further develop the YF-30 because of SMS's proprietary technology and Surya may have opportunistically pounced on the incomplete program.

[Zinjo]

Yeah, single barrel and quite large calibre by the look of it.

I'm glad we are seeing a move to more advanced technology in the form of rapid fire rail guns, rather than having them using conventional cased propellant ammunition.

Having them as rail guns also makes it easier to store more ammo in a smaller space.

If the calibre of the projectile is large enough, a high rate of fire is rather moot as the muzzle velocity from a true railgun would be 3 km/s or more. If the kinetic energy of being impacted by a bullet moving that fast didn't do critical damage then a second bullet following a millisecond after would.

[Seto Kaiba]

If the calibre of the projectile is large enough, a high rate of fire is rather moot as the muzzle velocity from a true railgun would be 3 km/s or more. If the kinetic energy of being impacted by a bullet moving that fast didn't do critical damage then a second bullet following a millisecond after would.

That's pretty much the philosophy for all gun pods in Macross... "screw rate of fire, we'll just make the bullets really big and REALLY fast".

[SebastianP]

... if by "native" you meant "one had regional offices from several interstellar megacorporations and the other is a branch of an interstellar megacorporation", then yes.

The new fighters in Macross Frontier weren't the product of insular little regional developers: the YF-25 Prophecy was a joint venture between the local branches of technology giants Shinsei Industry and Legodt & Angeloni Industries; and the YF-27 Shahar was produced by what was quite literally General Galaxy's giant flying test center and technology showroom.

The first "1" is correct. The second "1" (which I'm assuming was supposed to be "2") is not. The "3" is half true for one of the two fleets, but not the other.

Half right... there was bluffing going on, but it was done entirely by General Galaxy, who trotted out misleadingly underpowered prototypes (the YF-27-3 and YF-27-5) that were not at all representative of the final VF-27's specs. The YF-25 Prophecy could not, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered a "minimally changed" YF-24 Evolution. The YF-29 was being developed in parallel, but not for use against rival fleets... it was developed as a trump card for a decisive battle against the Vajra, and basically too resource-intensive to actually build, so it sat completed but unbuilt for two years.

Aisha had development support from Shinsei Industry and Legodt & Angeloni Industries, and manufacturing support from the factory satellite orbiting Uroboros.

Shinsei may have opted not to further develop the YF-30 because of SMS's proprietary technology and Surya may have opportunistically pounced on the incomplete program.

I meant "Native" as in "sufficiently large amounts of research expertise available locally". They may be branch offices of bigger corporations, but they still answer to the local government, if nothing else than because their employees are all citizens and should have at least some patriotism.

As for the string pulling, I was thinking of Leon Mishima here - in the TV series he was in cahoots with Galaxy and had the president assassinated, though what his end game plan was once is a bit of a mystery to me; in the movies he convinces President Glass to co-opt Galaxy's plan to control the Vajra once they suss it out and have the upper hand, rather than using their tech to kill the Vajra off clean or getting out of their territory. That sounds a lot like nefarious and megalomaniacal string pulling to me.

Oh, and the rivals with opposing core ethics thing is also easy to explain - Frontier is built as a sustainable eco-system and prohibits transhumanism like cybernetic implants; Galaxy is apparently one giant industrial cityscape with homeless undocumented children living in the slums and no green spaces, and implants are basically mandatory unless Grace Godunowa has a use for you that requires you don't have them. There's your opposing core ethics. And look how quick the Frontier government was to use the "it's probably a trap set by Galaxy, so we're ignoring it!" card in the movies - if that's not evidence of rivalry, what is? And Frontier was IIRC actually looking to settle somewhere, or at least they ended up having to. Galaxy might have been content to stay in space though, but they were attempting to gain control of the Vajra so they couldn't have Frontier in their patch.

Or at least that's how I interpreted things.

As for me calling the Prophecy a minimally changed Evolution - what line art we have of the Evolution really suggests that the main outward difference between the two were the Prophecy's swing wings. The internals may be different, but the VF-25 has the same nose section, the same intakes, the same exhaust nozzles, the same dorsal panel lines for the parts that move around while transforming... compare that to the VF-27, which is radically different in overall styling, doesn't have the same feet, panel lines or intakes, and it really does look like the VF-25 is a result of someone going "This plane is almost good enough as is, let's just fix the bits that are obviously wrong and see what we get?" at the YF-24, just like how they did basically the same thing to turn the YF-21 into the VF-22.

The VF-27 on the other hand adds the virtual cockpit, the beam gun, has different engines and exhausts, has none of the same panel lines... the only thing that's visibly the same on the two is the basic transformation. And that's before you go into the added engines on the wings and the like.

The YF-29 is also a lot more different from the YF-24 than the VF-25 is - again it has different wings and two more engines, but it also has all the extra armament (the dorsal beam guns, the built-in micro-missiles, etc.) and the Fold wave system. It's still more obviously a further developed YF-24 than the VF-27 is though.

Edited June 24, 2016 by SebastianP

[Solo Wing Pixy]

I always had the impression that the yf 29 and vf 27 were test-bed/one-off production units due to their terrible operational versatility. Both of those units required specialised expansion parts, complex technologies and difficult logistics(e.g. the yf 29's fold crystals) all while being unable to have a diverse range of ordinance aside from the default gun pod + other guns and micromissiles due to the lack of visible hardpoints. So in a sense, both those valkyries and the yf 24 were akin to "concept cars" in relation to the MP units.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Solo Wing Pixy

[Seto Kaiba]

I meant "Native" as in "sufficiently large amounts of research expertise available locally". They may be branch offices of bigger corporations, but they still answer to the local government, if nothing else than because their employees are all citizens and should have at least some patriotism.

That still wouldn't be accurate in the case of Macross Galaxy and the VF-27... in the sense that there is, effectively, no actual government there. It's run entirely by the corporation. (Which is why it's a hellhole.)

As for the string pulling, I was thinking of Leon Mishima here - in the TV series he was in cahoots with Galaxy and had the president assassinated, though what his end game plan was once is a bit of a mystery to me; [...]

Leon didn't really have a say in anything until he had President Glass whacked... he was just a military advisor to the president, and wasn't even part of the actual fleet chain of command either.

"Opportunism" might be a better word for his attempt in the movies.

Oh, and the rivals with opposing core ethics thing is also easy to explain - Frontier is built as a sustainable eco-system and prohibits transhumanism like cybernetic implants; Galaxy is apparently one giant industrial cityscape with homeless undocumented children living in the slums and no green spaces, and implants are basically mandatory [...]

It's not really competing ethos, since Frontier is not advocating its position is better than Galaxy's or vice versa... Frontier's ban on implants is more of a pragmatic factor forced by their bioplant ecological system. Implant tech is legal in most of the galaxy, and by that point had been for something like 11 years. Likewise, Galaxy's lack of a maintained environment is simply its design, being a previous-generation emigrant ship built on closed-loop chemical plant technology with an emphasis on efficiency.

And look how quick the Frontier government was to use the "it's probably a trap set by Galaxy, so we're ignoring it!" card in the movies - if that's not evidence of rivalry, what is?

Personally, when you factor in Galaxy having been caught red-handed carrying out illegal weapons tests in the field and so on... I'd call it more a case of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".

As for me calling the Prophecy a minimally changed Evolution - what line art we have of the Evolution really suggests that the main outward difference between the two were the Prophecy's swing wings.

"Don't judge a book by its cover" is pretty much all that needs to be said about that... there were some fairly significant structural changes, but the internals are supposed to be wildly different.

I always had the impression that the yf 29 and vf 27 were test-bed/one-off production units due to their terrible operational versatility. Both of those units required specialised expansion parts, complex technologies and difficult logistics(e.g. the yf 29's fold crystals) all while being unable to have a diverse range of ordinance aside from the default gun pod + other guns and micromissiles due to the lack of visible hardpoints. So in a sense, both those valkyries and the yf 24 were akin to "concept cars" in relation to the MP units.

The YF-29, yes... the VF-27 was a mass-production aircraft, but you could say that it suffered from crippling overspecialization because it was designed to tackle the Vajra threat and be an incredible dogfighter, but not much else.

(Whether they actually couldn't use pylon-mounted ordinance isn't 100% clear... sometimes details like that crop up much later on. I mean, we didn't know how many pylons a VF-11 had until 14 years after it debuted.)

[SebastianP]

The YF-29, yes... the VF-27 was a mass-production aircraft, but you could say that it suffered from crippling overspecialization because it was designed to tackle the Vajra threat and be an incredible dogfighter, but not much else.

(Whether they actually couldn't use pylon-mounted ordinance isn't 100% clear... sometimes details like that crop up much later on. I mean, we didn't know how many pylons a VF-11 had until 14 years after it debuted.)

Going by the panel lines on the VF-27 model kit, there may be one hardpoint under each wing, just inboard of the engines, where there are two small circular panels in a straight line parallel to the centerline. It's nowhere near as obvious as on the VF-31, but if there are any hardpoints at all, that's where they'd be.

The YF-29 looks like it too has one hardpoint under each wing - in this case, the evidence is two narrow rectangular panels arranged in a line just inboard of the fixed portion of the wing, on the 1/100 Bandai kit (and on the DX toy, I just noticed). These are not obscured by the super parts, though the leg packs stick out enough to make clearance problematic for long stores.

The YF-30 of course only has one official item made of it, and that's the DX toy which has functional hardpoint connectors for two hardpoints under each wing.

And of course it's obvious where the hardpoints are on anything that's gotten a Hasegawa kit of it, because they're awesome like that.

[This Confuses Gamlin]

The mention of implants reminded me that Walküre's use of (press-on?) fingernail computers seems like it's so mundane as to be unremarkable by anyone, either in the series or by the viewers. All of Walküre except Freyja, that is.

I think they'd be interesting to see more details of with regard to their capabilities, along with whatever the core of their holographic costume technology is. Sheryl had to wear a bodysuit (and obviously stayed within the confines of the stage), but we've moved along in intervening years. Walküre looks like whatever their using fits onto a small part of their clothes, considering that Kaname and Makina have bare midriffs all the time.

[SebastianP]

The mention of implants reminded me that Walküre's use of (press-on?) fingernail computers seems like it's so mundane as to be unremarkable by anyone, either in the series or by the viewers. All of Walküre except Freyja, that is.

I think they'd be interesting to see more details of with regard to their capabilities, along with whatever the core of their holographic costume technology is. Sheryl had to wear a bodysuit (and obviously stayed within the confines of the stage), but we've moved along in intervening years. Walküre looks like whatever their using fits onto a small part of their clothes, considering that Kaname and Makina have bare midriffs all the time.

What makes you think any of Walkure are wearing actual clothes at all?

[Seto Kaiba]

I think they'd be interesting to see more details of with regard to their capabilities, along with whatever the core of their holographic costume technology is. Sheryl had to wear a bodysuit (and obviously stayed within the confines of the stage), but we've moved along in intervening years. Walküre looks like whatever their using fits onto a small part of their clothes, considering that Kaname and Makina have bare midriffs all the time.

Well, remember... Sheryl's holographic wardrobe was every bit as adept at simulating the absence of clothing as it was the presence of same. Those revealing outfits she favors are often the same full-body holosuit as her conservative wardrobe choices. I would assume that Walkure's equipment is capable of that same feat.

(Played to humorous effect in a short comic in Macross Ace, in which she shows off her holographic wardrobe's variety, ending with an accidental bit of indecent exposure when the system glitches and gives Alto an eyefull.)

It seems like they've finally reached the level of the holographic disguises from Macross II, which had no obvious projector and which required no special garment to project upon.

(This was also played to humorous effect in Viz Media's unofficial Macross II sequel comic, where Hibiki briefly borrows one of those projectors that is small enough to be disguised as a digital wristwatch, which came preloaded with disguises that were all in-jokes for other anime titles... including Dr. Hell from Mazinger and Usagi Tsukino from Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon. Why absolutely nobody on the streets of Macross City seemed to think it odd that magical girls and mad scientists were wandering the streets is anyone's guess...)

[Solo Wing Pixy]

One thing that has bugged me about the holographic suits in Delta is how the skirt thrusters from Walkure's default outfits are supposed to fit on it. Their normal uniforms don't seem to indicate where they might be(seeing as they did transition from their uniform to the idol outfit in that one airdrop scene).

[SebastianP]

One thing that has bugged me about the holographic suits in Delta is how the skirt thrusters from Walkure's default outfits are supposed to fit on it. Their normal uniforms don't seem to indicate where they might be(seeing as they did transition from their uniform to the idol outfit in that one airdrop scene).

Like this:

[RedWolf]

As for the string pulling, I was thinking of Leon Mishima here - in the TV series he was in cahoots with Galaxy and had the president assassinated, though what his end game plan was once is a bit of a mystery to me; in the movies he convinces President Glass to co-opt Galaxy's plan to control the Vajra once they suss it out and have the upper hand, rather than using their tech to kill the Vajra off clean or getting out of their territory. That sounds a lot like nefarious and megalomaniacal string pulling to me.

Oh, and the rivals with opposing core ethics thing is also easy to explain - Frontier is built as a sustainable eco-system and prohibits transhumanism like cybernetic implants; Galaxy is apparently one giant industrial cityscape with homeless undocumented children living in the slums and no green spaces, and implants are basically mandatory unless Grace Godunowa has a use for you that requires you don't have them. There's your opposing core ethics. And look how quick the Frontier government was to use the "it's probably a trap set by Galaxy, so we're ignoring it!" card in the movies - if that's not evidence of rivalry, what is? And Frontier was IIRC actually looking to settle somewhere, or at least they ended up having to. Galaxy might have been content to stay in space though, but they were attempting to gain control of the Vajra so they couldn't have Frontier in their patch.

In the movies I think it more like Galaxy being treated as a rogue state due to its human rights record, assassinating dissidents for example, and outright espionage on other NUN members.

[EXO]

Custom Regult Delta style

[Seto Kaiba]

One thing that has bugged me about the holographic suits in Delta is how the skirt thrusters from Walkure's default outfits are supposed to fit on it. Their normal uniforms don't seem to indicate where they might be(seeing as they did transition from their uniform to the idol outfit in that one airdrop scene).

... my girlfriend had a theory about where, but it's really not fit for a family-friendly forum. (From that, I think you oughta be able to guess.)

I suspect it's just belted around their waists and they're rendered invisible by holograms.

[kalvasflam]

Custom Regult Delta style

Nice, the best of all Zentran worlds, Just need some missile pods overhead, and it would be awesome.

[David Hingtgen]

As for the missing hardpoints, I'm thinking that someone forgot to draw them in the line art, then the 3D model was made without them, then the model kits were made using the 3D model as a reference, and so none of them have any extra hardpoints. Stupid, but that sort of thing happens.

This. They took the -31F/J, and made new wing tips---but said new wingtips are simple and lacking in detail. Very few panel lines, and missing the hard points. And everything else is following that reference religiously, even with its obvious simplification/omissions.

[JB0]

I'mma offer up a free retcon excuse, and say they use electromagnetic hardpoints.

Kawamori can thank me later.

[grigolosi]

This shot shows 4 hard point stations on the 31.

Edited June 27, 2016 by grigolosi

[d3v]

So we finally got to see the Elysion's Macross Cannon. I like how it's now integrated into the carrier instead of being as separate ship/module.

That said, does this mean that the Aether has one as well (considering that they fire from the Hemera), and that the Elysion can do Macross Cannon's akimbo?

[SebastianP]

So we finally got to see the Elysion's Macross Cannon. I like how it's now integrated into the carrier instead of being as separate ship/module.

That said, does this mean that the Aether has one as well (considering that they fire from the Hemera), and that the Elysion can do Macross Cannon's akimbo?

Are we out of the spoiler protected period yet?

Anyway - with the Aether and Hemera being externally identical, I'm guessing both ships have the same internals as well, so yes the Aether should contain another Macross Cannon. Also, based on the Aether not even trying to shoot at the Sigur Valens, I'm guessing that either the charge time is prohibitive without the Elysion's main reactors to power it, or the ship basically can't fire the gun on its own.

Guns akimbo? Maybe in space. On the surface, Elysion used the other hand to steady the Hemera, and I don't think it was just for the sake of a cool pose. More likely, we might see the Elysion fire both guns simultaneously in ship mode - possibly after ramming the Sigur Valens? It's gotta do a Macross Attack at some point, it won't be Macross without it.

[eko.prasetiyo]

what the effect if hemera or aether perform daedalus attack but instead firing missile it firing macross cannon

Edited June 27, 2016 by eko.prasetiyo

[Seto Kaiba]

So we finally got to see the Elysion's Macross Cannon. I like how it's now integrated into the carrier instead of being as separate ship/module.

That said, does this mean that the Aether has one as well (considering that they fire from the Hemera), and that the Elysion can do Macross Cannon's akimbo?

Very probably, yes... it would certainly explain why a ship the size of the Macross Elysion only supports four platoons of fighters if most of each carrier's structure is devoted to a heavy quantum reaction cannon.

what the effect if hemera or aether perform daedalus attack but instead firing missile it firing macross cannon

Probably not dissimilar from what we saw when Vrlitwhai's command ship fired its heavy converging beam cannon into Boddole Zer's mobile fortress at point blank range... a great big kaboom.

[squaresphere]

This has been bothering me since seeing Keith active a fold factor on his Draken. Do the Draken III's actually have a fold crystal system integrated? The glow effect we've seen during Keith and Messer's last duel is the save we've seen on the YF-29 and Hayate's VF-31 when he's syncing with Freya's song.