Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Zinjo]

Well the Elysion itself is supposed to be larger than the Quarter class, so that could point to the Aether being larger than the quarter carrier.

I don't recall who, but someone showed a comparison between the CVC-109 and the Quarter Arm Carrier and it strongly indicated the CVC-109 is larger.

The Elysion appears to be similar in size to the old SDFN class warships, but redesigned with modern 2050's tech.

It has been indicated that the design group responsible for the MQ also designed the Elysion's class (or vice versa depending on if you believe the Elysion is newer or older than the Quarter).

Edited May 17, 2016 by Zinjo

[kajnrig]

Separated at birth?

LOL

Boy, something's looking unusually phallic...

[starla]

Boy, something's looking unusually phallic...

damnnnnnn... i can't unsee that x_x

thanks, man, hahahahah... well, defence system needs to be potent.

[Duke Togo]

Better or worst?

I don't love it, but I definitely don't hate it. Actually, I find it kind of interesting. I like this better than Frontier's Quarter design, for sure.

[grss1982]

So were are the VF-25 brownies? I thought the grunt units for Mac F where the VF-171and by Delta we'll already be a new grunt unit.

Any in universe explanation for this?

Or is the VF-25 destined to have the same faith as the YF-19 that even though it won Project Super Nova did not go on to become the new standard fighter of the UN Spacy?

Edited May 19, 2016 by grss1982

[kajnrig]

So were are the VF-25 brownies? I thought the grunt units for Mac F where the VF-171and by Delta we'll already be a new grunt unit.

Any in universe explanation for this?

Or is the VF-25 destined to have the same faith as the YF-19 that even though it won Project Super Nova did not go on to become the new standard fighter of the UN Spacy?

I think it IS the main VF of the NUNS, just that rollout is kind of slow because, y'know, galactic distances and all. By Delta's time, I'm sure most of the "main" galaxy is using 25As, and Delta happens to take place in the boondocks, so to speak, hence the 171s.

[Shirke]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but are the VF-31s being used by Chaos under a similar situation to what the VF-25s were in Frontier, where they were being tested out by SMS before mass adoption? I also find it interesting that the VF-31 which is based of the VF-30 developed by SMS is currently only shown to be in the hands of a different civilian contracter, unless another party developed it.

[Master Dex]

I think it IS the main VF of the NUNS, just that rollout is kind of slow because, y'know, galactic distances and all. By Delta's time, I'm sure most of the "main" galaxy is using 25As, and Delta happens to take place in the boondocks, so to speak, hence the 171s.

It took me a while to figure out why the 19 wasn't the main fighter. I kept telling myself it was just Frontier that choose to use 171s for cost and the proper NUNS used it. I understand now that just isn't the case. VF-19 became a special ops unit like the 17 was. The 171 made a better general purpose VF to replace the aging VF-11.

VF-25 was developed for Frontier with LAI help based on the YF-24 though. There is no reason to think NUNS is going to use the 25 everywhere unless the data from SMS really made them love it. For a general purpose 5th generation fighter a VF-24 that is not as specialized as the 25 seems more likely, if at all.

More interestingly, it seems SMS operates more than just 25s since an updated VF-19 that can probably keep up with modern VFs was being flown by Isamu for SMS (Isamu finally found a job that let him fly with less red tape, so appropriate).

[Master Dex]

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but are the VF-31s being used by Chaos under a similar situation to what the VF-25s were in Frontier, where they were being tested out by SMS before mass adoption? I also find it interesting that the VF-31 which is based of the VF-30 developed by SMS is currently only shown to be in the hands of a different civilian contracter, unless another party developed it.

SMS didn't develope anything. The YF-30 was probably made by Shinsei based on design lineage. LAI involvement is possible too, not sure if that has been revealed. Chaos likely contracts with Shinsei or whoever made the VF-31 to get theirs. SMS cut a deal to get their 25s from Shinsei and LAI by offering the data to Frontier NUNS as an early adoption thing.

The 31 seems more purpose built so I doubt it is meant to become a general use VF like 25 was implied to be for Frontier.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Master Dex

[Seto Kaiba]

So were are the VF-25 brownies? I thought the grunt units for Mac F where the VF-171and by Delta we'll already be a new grunt unit.

Any in universe explanation for this?

Yes, there is... but it's kind of a bear to explain.

You see, even before the UN Government and UN Forces were reorganized into the New UN Government and New UN Forces, the individual emigrant fleets and planets weren't under any serious obligation to use whatever the bigwigs on Earth decided was going to be the next main fighter. Some fleets, like Megaroad-13, opted to pass on the designated main fighter in favor of something else (the VF-14 instead of the VF-11). Once the government and military reorganized and became more decentralized, the VF-171 was essentially the last of the mandated main variable fighters. The New UN Government's federal forces pursue their own contracts to develop bleeding edge new fighters, while limitations on arms exports leave the emigrant fleets and planets with a couple different choices. They can...

• ... build/buy an export version of an existing variable fighter currently or formerly used by the federal forces, like planet Zola's fleet of VF-5000G's and VF-19P.
• ... develop their own local version of an existing variable fighter, with some government-imposed limits on performance like the Macross Galaxy fleet's VF-19C/MG21 or Macross Frontier fleet's VF-19EF. Some fleets and planets likely built their own local versions of the VF-24 using the limited/censored specs shared by the federal forces.
• ... develop their own new variable fighter using the limited/censored specs shared by the federal forces as a starting point, like the Macross Frontier fleet's VF-25 and YF-29, Macross Galaxy fleet's VF-27, Uroboros's YF-30, and Delta Platoons VF-31 are all examples of this approach.

The VF-25 Messiah was slated to become the next main fighter of the Macross Frontier fleet's local New UN Spacy garrison, and in 2059 it was already in low rate initial production and operational evaluation. In addition to adopting it themselves, various unofficial sources suggest they also sold it to other emigrant fleets and planets whom they considered allies... but its adoption wasn't galaxy-wide or anything like universal. Some fleets may have already employed the VF-25 in significant numbers. Some may only have a few, either because of the price or because they're still transitioning. Some may have decided to pass on it in favor of another fighter design like the VF-27, YF-29, YF-30, or VF-31. Some didn't bother with manned fighters at all and have air forces composed entirely of Ghosts.

Or is the VF-25 destined to have the same faith as the YF-19 that even though it won Project Super Nova did not go on to become the new standard fighter of the UN Spacy?

Nah, it's just one of several 5th Generation variable fighters being adopted by the various emigrant fleets and planets around the galaxy...

I think it IS the main VF of the NUNS, just that rollout is kind of slow because, y'know, galactic distances and all. By Delta's time, I'm sure most of the "main" galaxy is using 25As, and Delta happens to take place in the boondocks, so to speak, hence the 171s.

Yes and no.

The VF-25 is, as I mentioned previously, tipped to become the next main fighter of the Macross Frontier fleet's New UN Forces... but that's one planetary/fleet government among many. Some other New UN Government member worlds/fleets will adopt other fighters as their next main VF... and the federal forces have their own fighter that's implied to be even more advanced.

I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but are the VF-31s being used by Chaos under a similar situation to what the VF-25s were in Frontier, where they were being tested out by SMS before mass adoption? I also find it interesting that the VF-31 which is based of the VF-30 developed by SMS is currently only shown to be in the hands of a different civilian contracter, unless another party developed it.

We don't know what the VF-31's circumstances are yet.

The YF-30's kind of a special case, as it was developed more as a technology demonstrator and experimental technologies testbed than a proposed next main fighter.

SMS didn't develope anything. The YF-30 was probably made by Shinsei based on design lineage. LAI involvement is possible too, not sure if that has been revealed. Chaos likely contracts with Shinsei or whoever made the VF-31 to get theirs. SMS cut a deal to get their 25s from Shinsei and LAI by offering the data to Frontier NUNS as an early adoption thing.

The 31 seems more purpose built so I doubt it is meant to become a general use VF like 25 was implied to be for Frontier.

Actually, the YF-30 was developed by SMS... or, rather, by SMS Uroboros branch's Major Aisha Blanchett (in partnership with Shinsei and LAI).

[kalvasflam]

So, here is a question, since there are grunt VF-31, something I'm truly happy about from an organizational structure point of view. How many of these grunts are there? Are they all CHAOS, or are there NUNS involved?

NUNS seem to get the cannon fodder VF-17Is. The question is why.

Of course, it is also interesting to see how NUNS are organized, because each branch of it seem to be separated or only loosely organized. With large number of mercs (usually with better equipment) supplementing them. This seems a little weird, kind of like the USAF is a bunch of grunts who has substandard equipment (think F-15s) and there is a merc organization (called it Blackwater Air Force) who supplements the USAF, and all they have are F-22s and F-23s.

NUNS in the planetary level seem very loosely organized. For example, on a counter attack to Voldor, if it gets organized should involve a NUNS fleet. I know we're still early in the series, and may yet see this. But odd that their recon group, and even their reaction force wasn't NUNS but a bunch of mercs.

[d3v]

YF-30 = tech demonstrator

VF-31 = application of the tech demoed by the 30.

[kalvasflam]

YF-30 = tech demonstrator

VF-31 = application of the tech demoed by the 30.

I wonder what VF-32 will be then... a custrmized version of VF-31?

[RedWolf]

We have to also note Fold Quartz is heavily regulated that the NUN would be watching like a hawk. So those that can afford it and willing to abide by restrictions can deploy YF-24 derivatives.

Once MDE came into play the NUNG went nope on Fold Quartz proliferation. Which probably irked Windermereans to revolt as they have ruins with the stuff. They were probably banking on Fold Quartz for their economy.

[d3v]

I wonder what VF-32 will be then... a custrmized version of VF-31?

The 30 to 31 seems more like the way the 21 became the 22 (or the real life YF-17 became the F/A-18), except without the whole, being passed over for selection part (30 was a pure, tech demonstrator).

[Sildani]

Kalvasflam: imagine your Blackwater Air Force was given pre-production F-22s by Lockheed Martin for battle testing. The data will be used by LM to refine the design, and LM will offer F-22As to the USAF for their next main fighter to replace the F-15s.

[Seto Kaiba]

So, here is a question, since there are grunt VF-31, something I'm truly happy about from an organizational structure point of view. How many of these grunts are there? Are they all CHAOS, or are there NUNS involved?

So far, the organization of Chaos's private military contractors seems to be similar to that of SMS's forces in Macross Frontier. They don't seem to bother with any level of organization above the most basic one... the flight platoon. We've been introduced to three of their platoons so far: Alpha, Beta, and Delta. Unless they've got more aircraft up their sleeves that we don't know about, that's up to 5 aircraft per platoon times three platoons... so a theoretical ten VF-31A grunt units plus the five Delta platoon units. Probably fewer now that several Alpha and Beta platoon pilots have been shot down.

We know almost nothing of the fighters in Macross Delta at the present stage, besides from some details of their weaponry... so we can't say if Chaos is evaluating the VF-31 for Ragna's New UN Forces garrison, if it's a fighter they bought for their own use, or if a different scenario is in play. We've seen neither hide nor hair of Ragna's NUNS at this point.

NUNS seem to get the cannon fodder VF-17Is. The question is why.

Didn't I answer this one in my previous post?

The New UN Spacy is using the VF-171 Nightmare Plus because it was the last "next main fighter" mandated by the federal forces, and because the various regional commands either haven't seen a reason to upgrade or are still in the process of upgrading to the 5th Generation VFs.

Of course, it is also interesting to see how NUNS are organized, because each branch of it seem to be separated or only loosely organized. With large number of mercs (usually with better equipment) supplementing them. This seems a little weird, kind of like the USAF is a bunch of grunts who has substandard equipment (think F-15s) and there is a merc organization (called it Blackwater Air Force) who supplements the USAF, and all they have are F-22s and F-23s.

NUNS in the planetary level seem very loosely organized. For example, on a counter attack to Voldor, if it gets organized should involve a NUNS fleet. I know we're still early in the series, and may yet see this. But odd that their recon group, and even their reaction force wasn't NUNS but a bunch of mercs.

That's the result of the aforementioned decentralization of the government and military.

Instead of being a single, monolithic organization with bases in various regions, the New UN Forces in each system are more like a state-level militia or national guard force now. They're concerned solely with the defense of their home fleet or planet, which is also responsible for financing and equipping them. It's the federal New UN Forces that are the "true" military, and consequentially there are even more restrictions and political ramifications involved in mobilizing them. It was mentioned in the briefing scene after Roid made his public declaration of war that the federal New UN Forces were unlikely to intervene in the Windermere conflict at present because they likely saw it as just another minor tiff between emigrant worlds. Now that Chaos has discovered evidence that it was Windermere behind the entire galactic pandemic of Var syndrome, the chances of a federal intervention are better. Of course, it'll likely only come at or near the end, since the federal forces are said to exceed the capabilities of the local NUNS forces by a quite significant margin. A curbstomp battle where Windermere takes it on the chin from a force dozens or hundreds of times its size so early in the series would take most of the fun out of it.

Ozma touched on exactly why private contractors are so popular in the 2050's and beyond when he introduced Alto to SMS back in the Macross Frontier series. It's advantageous for the local governments to contract the service of mercenaries because, legally, it involves a lot less red tape to mobilize a private contractor than it does the state forces. It's also easier on the government from the liability viewpoint: a contractor who dies in the line of duty is legally considered to have died in an accident.

SMS in Macross Frontier was operating newer fighters than the local New UN Spacy garrison because, as Ozma explained, they'd been hired to test the VF-25 in live combat before its adoption by the Frontier NUNS forces. Same reason as above... if someone attached to SMS snuffed it as the result of equipment failure or getting shot down, it's no skin off the NUNS's back. It's unclear if a requirement to return their low-rate initial production VF-25's after testing ended exists though. SMS may end up in the position of having to once again make do with a reduced-capability "monkey model" version of the military VF after the VF-25's adoption.

YF-30 = tech demonstrator

VF-31 = application of the tech demoed by the 30.

Sort of... we don't know how much of the YF-30's experimental technology made it into the production version. We know the VF-31 has an ordinance container system, but we don't know if it has a fold dimension resonance system or any of the other new tech the YF-30 was evaluating.

We have to also note Fold Quartz is heavily regulated that the NUN would be watching like a hawk. So those that can afford it and willing to abide by restrictions can deploy YF-24 derivatives.

Once MDE came into play the NUNG went nope on Fold Quartz proliferation. Which probably irked Windermereans to revolt as they have ruins with the stuff. They were probably banking on Fold Quartz for their economy.

There's that too, yeah... though the restrictions on the harvesting and distribution of fold quartz were aimed mainly at restricting the construction of dimension eater warheads, on top of laws restricting the usage of such weapons.

Whether Windermere's flush with the stuff the way the Vajra homeworld or Uroboros are isn't clear yet... I personally doubt that it's the motivation for their claims of unequal trade, since the leadership of the Aerial Knights seem to consider the ruins on their world cultural treasures and/or symbols of their manifest destiny.

[d3v]

What bugs me about the YF-30 is that, as a pure technology demonstrator, it technically should have an X designation. But then again, weirder things have happened with the IRL tri-service designation scheme.

[Seto Kaiba]

What bugs me about the YF-30 is that, as a pure technology demonstrator, it technically should have an X designation. But then again, weirder things have happened with the IRL tri-service designation scheme.

There's a mention in the novelization of Macross 30 that the YF classification was a calculated and technically-inappropriate move on SMS Uroboros' part, meant to allow them to defer their legal obligation to disclose the aircraft's specs to the federal New UN Government. They did it to keep their experimental tech under wraps for as long as possible.

(In a reverse of that same situation, the federal New UN Forces consider the Macross Galaxy VF-27 to officially be YF-27 because its specs were not disclosed as required by law.)

[Master Dex]

There's a mention in the novelization of Macross 30 that the YF classification was a calculated and technically-inappropriate move on SMS Uroboros' part, meant to allow them to defer their legal obligation to disclose the aircraft's specs to the federal New UN Government. They did it to keep their experimental tech under wraps for as long as possible.

(In a reverse of that same situation, the federal New UN Forces consider the Macross Galaxy VF-27 to officially be YF-27 because its specs were not disclosed as required by law.)

Gotta love them sly maneuvers.

I don't suppose there is any translation of that novelization. I'd love to play the game but my biggest issue is not being able to follow the story. I know it is a long shot that the novelization has a full translation, but it can't hurt to ask. (I know there is a good guide to the game from someone on this site as well, so I at least have that option.)

[RedWolf]

Whether Windermere's flush with the stuff the way the Vajra homeworld or Uroboros are isn't clear yet... I personally doubt that it's the motivation for their claims of unequal trade, since the leadership of the Aerial Knights seem to consider the ruins on their world cultural treasures and/or symbols of their manifest destiny.

Yet it seems they use ISC and beam guns on the Sv-262 being able to keep up with the VF-31. Their only export is apples. I don't think the Unequal Treaty they are saying refers to that.

[UN Spacy]

So...who's gonna replace Alpha and Beta Squadron?

[Seto Kaiba]

Yet it seems they use ISC and beam guns on the Sv-262 being able to keep up with the VF-31. Their only export is apples. I don't think the Unequal Treaty they are saying refers to that.

Whether they use ISC or their superior physical abilities let them tank the intense g-forces of their maneuvering is not established at this point.

As far as beam weapons go... it's only MDE beam weaponry that uses fold quartz. If they're using a normal heavy quantum beam cannon like the VF-27, YF-29, YF-30, and (presumably) VF-31 then they would almost certainly be using the cheaper, damn near ubiquitous synthetic fold carbon instead.

For that matter, we're still not sure if this so-called "unequal treaty" is actually not equitable or they're simply coming up with excuses that they think the other worlds in the Brisingr cluster won't immediately laugh out of town. The Voldorans certainly weren't impressed.

So...who's gonna replace Alpha and Beta Squadron?

Redshirts.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Seto Kaiba

[Zinjo]

I get the sense that the NUNS Garrisons are like US Bases in Foreign countries with certain exceptions. NUNS Garrisons utilize locally procured mecha by the host world and are comprised mostly of indigenous military.

I expect that Federal equipment is never deployed to colonial garrisons permanently, though federal NUNS officers may be part of the command team. So it would be like a US base in South Korea, but the pilots stationed there would be required to fly the F-15K or the F/A-50 fighters as a member of those squadrons instead of the US fighters they would fly at home or in US Fleets.

As for Merc Units like the SMS, it is also possible that they simply purchased the prototype VF-25 units outright and added them to their assets for the next "job".

Edited May 19, 2016 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

It's the federal New UN Forces that are the "true" military, and consequentially there are even more restrictions and political ramifications involved in mobilizing them. It was mentioned in the briefing scene after Roid made his public declaration of war that the federal New UN Forces were unlikely to intervene in the Windermere conflict at present because they likely saw it as just another minor tiff between emigrant worlds. Now that Chaos has discovered evidence that it was Windermere behind the entire galactic pandemic of Var syndrome, the chances of a federal intervention are better. Of course, it'll likely only come at or near the end, since the federal forces are said to exceed the capabilities of the local NUNS forces by a quite significant margin. A curbstomp battle where Windermere takes it on the chin from a force dozens or hundreds of times its size so early in the series would take most of the fun out of it.

I recall this, he also mentioned the NUNG has its own political problems (perhaps implying that sending a Federal Task Force to the region may be politically difficult). I liken this to NATO twisting itself in knots to avoid the term "genocide" in Rwanda and Serbia. To give the conflicts that label would require NATO to directly intervene, which they didn't want to do.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

As for Merc Units like the SMS, it is also possible that they simply purchased the prototype VF-25 units outright and added them to their assets for the next "job".

They might be able to get away with it in the Frontier fleet, since SMS's parent company Bilra Transporation has a LOT of clout with the government there... or they may get a pass on it if the Master File stance that SMS's OPEVAL VF-25's were partly built with inferior materials due to supply chain problems and didn't have that second seat due to extra test hardware is valid.

[RedWolf]

Well Windermere hadn't shown a reluctance to use MDE or mind control NUNS personnel is one factor. Other factors are concerns like rebel and Lost Zentradi, Anti-UN wannabees like Mirage mentioned, and remnants of Lactence and Macross Galaxy. Yeah the galaxy doesn't revolve around the Brisingr cluster.

The NUN would be flying blind which is the reason for this infiltration mission.

Not to mention between Fold Faults and parliamentary debates response time would be affected.

In Wings of Goodbye it was combined fleet of nearby planets and fleets. Earth is probably expecting concerned planets to work together than send a force all the way from the other side of the galaxy.

[Zinjo]

Well Windermere hadn't shown a reluctance to use MDE or mind control NUNS personnel is one factor. Other factors are concerns like rebel and Lost Zentradi, Anti-UN wannabees like Mirage mentioned, and remnants of Lactence and Macross Galaxy. Yeah the galaxy doesn't revolve around the Brisingr cluster.

The NUN would be flying blind which is the reason for this infiltration mission.

Not to mention between Fold Faults and parliamentary debates response time would be affected.

In Wings of Goodbye it was combined fleet of nearby planets and fleets. Earth is probably expecting concerned planets to work together than send a force all the way from the other side of the galaxy.

It also depends on how the NUNG views the MDE explosion during the revolutionary war.

If they think it was an accidental detonation of a NUNS weapon they wouldn't see the greater threat. If they discover it is a home grown weapon or a left over PC weapon, they'll be forced to act.

They would order whichever nearby Federal fleet(s) to deploy in the cluster. They wouldn't send a Task Force directly from the core systems. If that were to happen, it would be cool to see what the VF-24 was capable of in combat (not to mention more Hasegawa kits ).

Edited May 19, 2016 by Zinjo

[Saruta]

A question is bugging me since Episode 6.

The VF-31 can fold on its own. (The VF-1 can't, as far as I understand, but the VF-1 in Delta is just a training mecha).

So, when Mirage was being cornered, why could she not just fold away?

[Master Dex]

A question is bugging me since Episode 6.

The VF-31 can fold on its own. (The VF-1 can't, as far as I understand, but the VF-1 in Delta is just a training mecha).

So, when Mirage was being cornered, why could she not just fold away?

We don't know for sure if the 31 has the built in fold booster the YF-29 and YF-30 had actually.. they've never been shown to fold on their own.

Also no, the VF-1 certainly couldn't, in fact no VF before the YF-29 could without an outboard fold booster. The first time we saw a fold booster in use was with the YF-19 in M+ (though it was still treated like a new technology in Macross 7 when Diamond Force used them... and it was even more stressful on the pilots there whilst not on Isamu strangely).

[Seto Kaiba]

A question is bugging me since Episode 6.

The VF-31 can fold on its own. (The VF-1 can't, as far as I understand, but the VF-1 in Delta is just a training mecha).

So, when Mirage was being cornered, why could she not just fold away?

What gave you that they could fold on their own?

No VF in Macross to date has an internal fold system, that's why fold boosters are a thing. They can ride along inside a ship's fold effect (as has happened by accident and by design many times in prior shows) or they can travel on their own with a booster, but they can't fold on their own.

We don't know for sure if the 31 has the built in fold booster the YF-29 and YF-30 had actually.. they've never been shown to fold on their own.

The YF-29 and YF-30 did not have built-in fold boosters... the YF-29's fold-wave system and YF-30's fold dimensional resonance system are fold wave amplifiers that, among other things, operate as performance-enhancing technology that improves the effectiveness of other devices on the aircraft that use super dimension physics in their operation (like the engines, pinpoint barrier, some of the beam weaponry, etc.).

The first time we saw a fold booster in use was with the YF-19 in M+ (though it was still treated like a new technology in Macross 7 when Diamond Force used them... and it was even more stressful on the pilots there whilst not on Isamu strangely).

The VF-17 was not developed with native support for fold boosters... that functionality was patched in in a later upgrade. The YF-19 and YF-21 were the first VFs designed to natively support the use of fold boosters.

[Master Dex]

I stand corrected there. I honestly was not aware of those things about the 29 and 30. This makes me realize I definitely need to play Macross 30.

That reason for the 17 makes a lot more sense. Also explains why Basara never had issues with it (except for defolding too close to planets). They did clearly work out the kinks with the 17 though as it used fold boosters easier later.

[d3v]

I wish my PS3 hadn't died so I could finish Macross 30.

[Seto Kaiba]

I stand corrected there. I honestly was not aware of those things about the 29 and 30. This makes me realize I definitely need to play Macross 30.

Actually, apart from being mentioned in a cutscene where the YF-30's developer (and head of SMS Uroboros) is rhapsodizing about the new fighter's features to its new test pilot, there really isn't much acknowledgement of the system in-game until just before the final boss... when the YF-30 gets stuck in a forming dimension fault (a fold fault pulled into realspace) and it's the fold dimension resonance system amplifying Basara's song that breaks it out to start the fight.

I didn't use the YF-29s much, but IIRC or two of them may have had the fold wave system as a BOX-3 weapon, that provided a temporary performance buff.

That reason for the 17 makes a lot more sense. Also explains why Basara never had issues with it (except for defolding too close to planets). They did clearly work out the kinks with the 17 though as it used fold boosters easier later.

It probably didn't help the smoothness of the ride that Diamond Force was pushing their fold boosters beyond the rated limits of the design. The FBF-1000A fold booster was only rated to do one fold jump of 20 light years or less. Later designs naturally improved on that, but at first the fold booster was a painfully limited thing. Isamu's ride was relatively smooth, as he was only travelling the 11.7 light years separating Earth and Eden.

[kalvasflam]

The Drakkens do have fold capability right? I remember that from episode 1.

I don't remember there being boosters on them, but they could've been discarded. One other thing that bugs me a little about the Drakkens, they seem to have this long ass beam cannon on their planes, except depending on the shots, you don't always see it, may be I'm just not looking carefully enough.