Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Mit]

Per Macross Chronicle, this is kind of an Obi-Wan Kenobi "from a certain point of view" thing on D.D. and Nora's part.

You see, D.D. and Nora are partisans opposed to the Unification Government, so they see the requirement that its member nations share technological advances derived from overtechnology with each other as the Unification Government stealing that technology from its creators. The technology was not truly stolen, it was simply shared with the other UN Government member nations.

Macross Chronicle's coverage of the Anti-Unification Alliance's mecha clearly indicates that they were developed using data obtained from the UN Government's military programs. Some of that data and technology was acquired by through legitimate channels by defense contractors in nations that just happened to be in the Alliance's sphere of influence, but much of it was acquired through espionage or stolen by defectors. The Sv-51 is noted to have been developed quickly as the result of D.D. Ivanov himself handing over development data he stole from the VF-0 program when he defected to the Alliance forces, and the Octos is also mentioned as having been fast-tracked through development using data and technology stolen from the UN Government's Destroid program.

It's rather unlikely that the engineers who defected from the UN Government to the various anti-government groups after the First Space War had any connection to the engineers who provided weapons to the Alliance "under the table" during the UN Wars. In all likelihood there is no actual direct connection between the old Sv-51/52 and the Sv-262.

Interesting, but then the question arises as to the basis of the "stolen" technologies Anti-UN force able to develop a variational mecha almost faster than the United Nations?

Incidentally, the "Macross" since crashed to Earth in 1980 on some island, right? But at that time there was a "Cold War" and when the island was under the control of the United States and / or their allies, Russia could not gain access to alien technology, regardless of the fact that the UN speaks of "international cooperation" ...

[Seto Kaiba]

Interesting, but then the question arises as to the basis of the "stolen" technologies Anti-UN force able to develop a variational mecha almost faster than the United Nations?

Their programs were able to advance relatively quickly because they didn't have to do the R&D or the testing themselves... they were stealing advancements from the UN Government as they became available and applying them.

Incidentally, the "Macross" since crashed to Earth in 1980 on some island, right? But at that time there was a "Cold War" and when the island was under the control of the United States and / or their allies, Russia could not gain access to alien technology, regardless of the fact that the UN speaks of "international cooperation" ...

Not quite... the alien spaceship that would become the SDF-1 Macross crashed at the southern edge of the Bonin Islands (on the fictional island of South Ataria) on 17 July 1999 shortly after 18:15 (JST). By that time, the Soviet Union had dissolved and the Cold War had been over for 7 1/2 years.*

Russia did, in fact, have access to overtechnology through legitimate channels. It was one of the six major nations that co-founded the overtechnology research and development institute OTEC, along with the United States, Britain, France, Germany, and Japan. It was also one of the major players in the Unification Government.

* The series chronology written for the original Super Dimension Fortress Macross series in 1982 naturally did not account for the Soviet Union's dissolution in December 1991, and thus refer to both the Soviet Union and West Germany. Later versions of the series chronology from the 90's amended those to Russia and Germany to account for changes in real-world history that occurs before the start of the Macross story.

[Zinjo]

The AUN developed the SV-51 from the tech used to build the VF-0, which were a series of fighters "testing" Overtechnology advancements. The VF-1 Valkyrie was a finished design, but was not deployed because the Nuclear engines were not yet ready to install. Both the VF-0 and the SV-51 used conventional jet engines.

The Macross crashed on Earth in 1999 on South Ataria Island and Japan first secured the site for the UN (though my personal opinion, based on historical events of the time and how the world actually works, I would expect in reality what you proposed regarding the US taking control of the island would be most likely).

I don't believe the exact reasoning for the rise of the AUN Army has been fully thought through, despite the explanations provided from various "official" sources IMHO.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Zinjo

[tout-puissant]

Hey, Elysion is the Macross version of Zeta Gundam's Dogosse Giar!

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Dogosse_Giar-class

The ship mode is better than Quarter, but only just - and I'm a fan of the latter. The split prow is what makes the difference, IMO. With the twin booms sticking up front and not really connected on Quarter, the ship really was just a crouching version of the robot mode. Same thing on Elysion, but they've got the legs folding up more compactly and the shoulders also closer to the centreline, which improves the spaceship model silhouette tremendously. I didn't *hate* the Quarter design, it just felt unfinished in many ways.

However, there are still things carried over from Quarter that stick out (literally). The vertical towers above Elysion's head in robot mode simply flip backwards when transformed, just as on Quarter; and the head unit doesn't shift around at all either. Not BAD choices, but it doesn't do as much to hide the humanoid form.I do wonder what this means for any potential Macross cannon on this ship. There really OUGHT to be one, but where?

And re: the bridge, we've seen it several times now, deliberately not in full view - as on Frontier, we'll likely have to wait until Elysion actually takes off for us to see the set piece in all its glory. In any case, it seems to be a larger version of the Quarter bridge, with both aft bunny stations off to one side, but on two levels with the forward bunny stations and a larger chair for Captain Johnson isolated a couple steps down from the other stations. It'll be worth the wait to see, I'm sure.

Mark

Edited May 12, 2016 by tout-puissant

[Zinjo]

Hey, Elysion is the Macross version of Zeta Gundam's Dogosse Giar!

http://gundam.wikia.com/wiki/Dogosse_Giar-class

The ship mode is better than Quarter, but only just - and I'm a fan of the latter. The split prow is what makes the difference, IMO. With the twin booms sticking up front and not really connected on Quarter, the ship really was just a crouching version of the robot mode. Same thing on Elysion, but they've got the legs folding up more compactly and the shoulders also closer to the centreline, which improves the spaceship model silhouette tremendously. I didn't *hate* the Quarter design, it just felt unfinished in many ways.

However, there are still things carried over from Quarter that stick out (literally). The vertical towers above Elysion's head in robot mode simply flip backwards when transformed, just as on Quarter; and the head unit doesn't shift around at all either. Not BAD choices, but it doesn't do as much to hide the humanoid form.I do wonder what this means for any potential Macross cannon on this ship. There really OUGHT to be one, but where?

And re: the bridge, we've seen it several times now, deliberately not in full view - as on Frontier, we'll likely have to wait until Elysion actually takes off for us to see the set piece in all its glory. In any case, it seems to be a larger version of the Quarter bridge, with both aft bunny stations off to one side, but on two levels with the forward bunny stations and a larger chair for Captain Johnson isolated a couple steps down from the other stations. It'll be worth the wait to see, I'm sure.

Mark

I see it now.

So then the leg supports rotate forward to sit underneath the Arm Carrier ships. The towers don't really flip backward, it appears the torso rotates and the center module counter rotates to keep the bridge on the topside of the ship. A fairly simple transformation compared to the NMCV Battle Carrier, but also reminiscent of the SDF-1.

Now the million dollar question? Does she carry a buster cannon or not?

Edited May 12, 2016 by Zinjo

[Mr March]

If you want to see how Macross Elysion will look in cruiser mode. Courtesy of Tochiro's Twitter:

https://twitter.com/gwyncampbell/status/730563468856676352

I had been really hoping they would redesign the Quarter-style ship for the Elysion so that the crusier mode looked more like a ship. I think they've succeeded brilliantly. This looks exactly like I hoped it would; a different take on a Macross-style ship, but very stylish and impressive. I'm a big fan of this. It feels much more like a space craft, instead of the almost space-station-like look of the old Quarter Class ships.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Mr March

[calubin_175]

The Quarter, though... there's just no helping that thing. The ship "mode" just looks like a robot tripped and fell. The transformation is bad enough to be used in a Gundam show.

One thing that Macross distinguishes itself from Gundam and Transformers is that it offers good looking transformers with its sci-fi vehicle modes prioritised.

[kalvasflam]

Very nice; although it is funny that the arms still look like real life aircraft carriers. Can't wait till we see it in action

[Seto Kaiba]

I had been really hoping they would redesign the Quarter-style ship for the Elysion so that the crusier mode looked more like a ship. I think they've succeeded brilliantly. This looks exactly like I hoped it would; a different take on a Macross-style ship, but very stylish and impressive. I'm a big fan of this. It feels much more like a space craft, instead of the almost space-station-like look of the old Quarter Class ships.

... and with two carriers for arms, there's the faint promise of a Macross rocket punch!

[Zinjo]

I had been really hoping they would redesign the Quarter-style ship for the Elysion so that the crusier mode looked more like a ship. I think they've succeeded brilliantly. This looks exactly like I hoped it would; a different take on a Macross-style ship, but very stylish and impressive. I'm a big fan of this. It feels much more like a space craft, instead of the almost space-station-like look of the old Quarter Class ships.

Hmm "old" Quarter?

This design may well pre-date the Quarter...

... and with two carriers for arms, there's the faint promise of a Macross rocket punch!

Keep hope alive, brother...keep hope alive...

[JB0]

Regarding the Quarter, the initial design of it IMO looked better than the final one, and you can see it here: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=42528&p=1197147

Yup. We got ROBBED with the redesign.

[guyxxed]

I don't know, I'm not crazy about that concept design either. Looks too much like other things (Battle designs in storm attacker and Zentraidi in cruiser).

I do like the Elysion design, though I really wish it didn't have that giant triangle on it's head. Looks like a coat hanger TV antenna.

[d3v]

Looking at the cruiser mode, it seems that it transforms almost like a variable fighter. The crotch is actually the bow, or at least the forward part of the central superstructure. When transforming, it folds up and forward similar to a VF-1 (or 11).

[JB0]

I don't know, I'm not crazy about that concept design either. Looks too much like other things (Battle designs in storm attacker and Zentraidi in cruiser).

It is still far better than the "oops, I fell" of the onscreen Quarter.

[d3v]

If you look closely, you can see that there's more effort here to make the cruiser mode seem like a coherent ship. For one, the top of the arm carriers form a flat deck with the sides of the leg.

It is still far better than the "oops, I fell" of the onscreen Quarter.

I figure that that was done so that the Quarter could quickly and smoothly transition between cruiser and attack modes on the fly.

[Zinjo]

If you look closely, you can see that there's more effort here to make the cruiser mode seem like a coherent ship. For one, the top of the arm carriers form a flat deck with the sides of the leg.

I figure that that was done so that the Quarter could quickly and smoothly transition between cruiser and attack modes on the fly.

I'm betting the Elysion will prove to show that much better than the Quarter did. I don't really see the "folding". I see the core has three modules. The center where the bridge sits and two outer modules that appear to be where the arms are attached. The three modules rotate differently to create the battle ship.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Zinjo

[d3v]

I'm betting the Elysion will prove to show that much better than the Quarter did. I don't really see the "folding". I see the core has three modules. The center where the bridge sits and two outer modules that appear to be where the arms are attached. The three modules rotate differently to create the battle ship.

I say "fold" because that seems to be the most descriptive way to describe the motion with the crotch rotating up to meet the center torso.

EDIT: Colored in the parts of the Elysion so it would be easier to see how it seems to transform.

Edited May 14, 2016 by d3v

[eko.prasetiyo]

I see it now.

So then the leg supports rotate forward to sit underneath the Arm Carrier ships. The towers don't really flip backward, it appears the torso rotates and the center module counter rotates to keep the bridge on the topside of the ship. A fairly simple transformation compared to the NMCV Battle Carrier, but also reminiscent of the SDF-1.

Now the million dollar question? Does she carry a buster cannon or not?

I just hope the right side arm are a pseudo carrier that actually a gunship perhaps it hide the cannon firing mechanism behind the deck

[Master Dex]

I'm still calling shoulder boom cannons ala Macross class.

[eko.prasetiyo]

I'm still calling shoulder boom cannons ala Macross class.

if it the shoulder boom, how to fire it in cruiser mode? isn't it gonna blast the bridge?

[Nazareno2012]

if it the shoulder boom, how to fire it in cruiser mode? isn't it gonna blast the bridge?

Maybe it has 2 cannons, one in each boom.

[Master Dex]

if it the shoulder boom, how to fire it in cruiser mode? isn't it gonna blast the bridge?

Could say that about SDF-1 in attacker mode but it managed.

[Zinjo]

I say "fold" because that seems to be the most descriptive way to describe the motion with the crotch rotating up to meet the center torso.

EDIT: Colored in the parts of the Elysion so it would be easier to see how it seems to transform.

Hmm, it would appear the shoulder pods are somehow connected to the codpiece or crotch. Perhaps that module slides down to fit in front of the center module.

if it the shoulder boom, how to fire it in cruiser mode? isn't it gonna blast the bridge?

Unless they rotate around. At this point, the existence of a Quantum Cannon(s), where it is located and how it fires is a mystery. There is a strong chance the Elysion has one as she is a transforming Macross type warship.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Zinjo

[tout-puissant]

At this point I'd lay odds on the main cannon(s) being in the booms, but with each boom housing its own cannon in a sort of steeping stone to the more self-contained weapon versus the tuning fork configuration. If Elysion is indeed a precursor to Quarter, having some visual nods to the older SDF style designs would b really cool...

We don't really have any clues as to the age of the Elysion, though we see in a couple places that the paint is worn on the Aether's flight deck when Hayate is dangling his legs off of it in one episode. That's tough to judge though, since most real-world naval vessels and even planes have to repaint all the time to deal with corrosion from atmosphere or water.

Mark

[kalvasflam]

Anyone see the last episode? Just kidding.

I think we got a fairly clear look at some of the Windermere ship; at 6:20 or so, there was an overhead shot of a Dulfim type ship? except the booms were unequal in length. We can see the rest of the orbital fleet composed of Uragas, Northamptons, Gitmo, and looks like the main flag ship in orbit is a Deneb class, we also do see one next to that Dulfim class on the planet after the opening credits,

Any guesses on what they are capable of?

An addendum I guess, is there any dimensions on the size of the carrier arm for the Aether, compared to the Quarter? WIth these carriers, it is always a bit deceptive to see what the actual sizes are;

Because the sizes are strangely deceptive, if you look at the Aether, one could say that it is about the same size as the Quarter carrier. But hard to tell just by looking.

Edited May 16, 2016 by kalvasflam

[RedWolf]

Windermere got themselves Deneb class ships and double hull types which could be from the same manufacturer as the Dulfim and Galaxy refugee ship.

[d3v]

An addendum I guess, is there any dimensions on the size of the carrier arm for the Aether, compared to the Quarter? WIth these carriers, it is always a bit deceptive to see what the actual sizes are;

Because the sizes are strangely deceptive, if you look at the Aether, one could say that it is about the same size as the Quarter carrier. But hard to tell just by looking.

Well the Elysion itself is supposed to be larger than the Quarter class, so that could point to the Aether being larger than the quarter carrier.

[maczero]

IMHO, given the image of the episode 3 (20 min 23s), if the VF-31 is like the YF-29, the minimum length of Aether would be 300 meters.

Edited May 17, 2016 by maczero

[Graham]

Separated at birth?

LOL

[hulagu]

Anyone see the last episode? Just kidding.

I think we got a fairly clear look at some of the Windermere ship; at 6:20 or so, there was an overhead shot of a Dulfim type ship?

Wasn't that a Quarter class?

[d3v]

Wasn't that a Quarter class?

If it is one, then it doesn't have legs.

[Kcsquare]

Macross One-eighth Class

[Kelsain]

Eric, the Half-a-Macross

[kalvasflam]

Separated at birth?

LOL

From that view, it does look a lot like they are unrelated twins. One thing I wish they do a little better job of is showing the various classes of ships in the Macross universe;

The Harlock/Deneb type looks like a modification from the original Denebs, the original Deneb didn't have the two protruding prowls that wide from what I remembered, but then of course, we had may be 30 seconds of looking at the Deneb class in all of Frontier.

And I wonder if the Aerial Knights are ship based somewhere; because even with fold capability, it's an awfully long time to hold your pee while launching from Windermere, getting onto a mission in another system, and then come back home. Although I suppose one of their extreme physical abilities might be that they can fight for prolonged period without going to the bathroom.

[eko.prasetiyo]

Eric, the Half-a-Macross

how about lets say its elysion class, cause we still dont know the details yet