Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[JB0]

RTGs, right? I knew of them, but heard they were pretty inefficient and slow (not to mention dangerous). Thermocouples are great and all, but I assumed in Macross they had much more effective ways to convert heat into electricity.

Oh, real-world thermocouples are inefficient as heck(less than 10% efficiency). But not slow or dangerous. You get electricity instantly, from simple heat.

Certainly, with a real-world RTG there's some danger from exposure to radiation in the event of a major accident(this is why the radiothermal generators are massively overbuilt, so if the rocket blows up the RTG stays intact when it slams into the ground), but... other than that, they're 100% safe. But the concern is the plutonium heat source, not the electricity-generating thermocouple(hence why they can also use thermocouples in oral thermometers).

And, well, the lump of plutonium is among the LESS toxic things in the typical space launch. It's just gonna sit there quietly oozing low levels of radiation. As they use materials with a long half-life and low levels of neutron radiation, the risk of exposure is relatively mild(as long as you don't ingest it). I'd stand next to the dented RTG before the dented tank of hydrazine any day.

But all that's neither here nor there. The Valk has the fusion powerplant already. The risk is the same whether you attach thermocouples to it or not. There's no point in just ignoring that massive pre-existing heat source.

And I simply assume overtechnology has produced thermocouples far more efficient than real-world ones, because overtechnology has provided similar leaps to virtually every form of technology seen in the franchise.

And, yeah, BattleTech has some good ideas, but oftentimes pretty poor execution of those ideas. Regardless of the technobabble, I think it's an interesting concept at least.

Though, could they be talking about excitation in the same way a lasing medium is excited? Heck, I dunno. I'm not a scientician.

I do know that if you add 'Quantum' to the front of anything it makes it work regardless of all other factors, though.

It's an interesting concept, it just exists outside the bounds of physics is all.

But that is exactly the same kind of excitation they're talking about. In fact, they're talking about turning the exhaust itself into a lasing medium. But if you add energy to an atom to raise the energy state of its electrons, you also make it hotter, by definition. (Let's just ignore the additional heat generated by these lasers for the moment)

Injecting more heat is very rarely part of an effective cooling solution.

And yeah, "quantum is a magic word that makes everything work" is the guiding premise behind their method of function. So they should rename it the "quantum optical heat sink", and that would resolve all the problems inherent in the "laser heat sink".

[sketchley]

I just meant that fuel (as in, propellant) wasn't the chief limitation, as the atmosphere is being used as a propellant. So, as long as the reactor is going, the fighter could fly. Or so I figured. But, flying around the world several times should be as good as unlimited for most purposes

I think he was just putting it dramatically to emphasize his point. Pretty much all official material I've come across state that the VF-1 (and by extension, all subsequent VFs) have an effectively unlimited range in an Earth-type atmosphere. So, toilet breaks, coolant and armament usage, and other annoying things like that are the main limitation on atmospheric flight.

[grigolosi]

I think you could say the big difference in the plumes in Zero can be attributed to the fact they were using conventional over trimmed (the use of the term "tuned" drives me nuts when I watch Zero) turbine engines in the both the VF-0 and SV-51. Conventional augmentors put out long burner plumes. So long and bright that at night you can see them after takeoff for almost a mile or more. Like Dex said alot of it would have to do with the type of fuel being burned.

[Master Dex]

I think you could say the big difference in the plumes in Zero can be attributed to the fact they were using conventional over trimmed (the use of the term "tuned" drives me nuts when I watch Zero) turbine engines in the both the VF-0 and SV-51. Conventional augmentors put out long burner plumes. So long and bright that at night you can see them after takeoff for almost a mile or more. Like Dex said a lot of it would have to do with the type of fuel being burned.

Yeah that is a good point on those. I've been in engine test cells and around trim pad runs of jets at night... That is one pretty sight for sure.

[Valkyrie Driver]

First thing's first, Did anyone notice how the Windermerean fighters from seven years ago look a lot like SV-51's? That's pretty awesome and lends some credence to fan theories about how they got SV's...

Second, in all the discussion about fuel and engines, and how they work, I don't recall anyone bringing up how in space the lack of drag means that constant acceleration does not equal constant speed. Regardless of how we see that portrayed in the shows, would come into play in regards to fuel consumption. Just throwing that out there.

[Master Dex]

First thing's first, Did anyone notice how the Windermerean fighters from seven years ago look a lot like SV-51's? That's pretty awesome and lends some credence to fan theories about how they got SV's...

Second, in all the discussion about fuel and engines, and how they work, I don't recall anyone bringing up how in space the lack of drag means that constant acceleration does not equal constant speed. Regardless of how we see that portrayed in the shows, would come into play in regards to fuel consumption. Just throwing that out there.

The older SV fighter has indeed been quite the subject of talk, lol.

You are correct about that, constant thrusting is not needed in space. The show implies they do it anyway, but artistic license and all that. Realistically, they likely are not always thrusting, and that does make a difference. However having a high acceleration can be beneficial in combat too, which does require thrust. With the inertia store converter, g-forces aren't as much to worry about either probably.

[tout-puissant]

The older Windemere fighters are a cross between the SV-51 from Macross Zero and the real-life F-104 Starfighter. Can't really see if they're transformable, but the way it's animated suggests it's a CG model - and if so, if it's transformable that's already built-in. Given the plot showing a LOT of stuff originating seven years ago when these ships were flying, I'm guessing we'll see these things in action via flashback at some point - and if so, we'll also see whatever NUNS was flying against them. Probably the ubiquitous VF-171, but who knows - the VF-25 is TECHNICALLY available...

There's been some discussion on the episode thread about WHAT ships did the colonization forty years ago, which is also technical discussion. Obviously a Megaroad-class ship made contact with Windermere, which if it happened in the late 2020s means they'd probably run out of repurposed Zentradi ships to act as the escort fleet by that point... The escorts were not quite discernable, but one of them looked to be the model seen later over Vordor, itself perhaps a variant on the "Macross Galaxy refugee ship" from Frontier (with an asymmetrical forward end, perhaps even based on Quarter?). Speaking of which, the smaller ships are definitely based on the Deneb-class ships from the same fleet, though are not identical. One wonders who makes these things?

As for the fleet that landed on Ragna (did they just shore up like that, all at once? No one analyzes a planet for months from orbit, determining a good place to land an advance party to make first contact? How un-Trekkish..), the island/city ship that landed is the one we see in the central city in the present day. We can't really tell if the ship that's attached to the front is a New Macross class carrier or whatever Elysion is, but the escorts are the stock models for the Northampton / Uraga / Stealth Cruiser we've already seen, suggesting the latter is an older design that simply wasn't seen in Macross Plus / 7 for whatever reason. The City ship itself seems never to have had a clamshell, suggesting it was an earlier design, but still not NECESSARILY a New Macross class ship.

Oh, and on the Aether, we see that the darkened room they were using in the first episode is their briefing room, though who knows if they have several identical rooms like it on the carrier ships and the Elysion herself. Comfy enough place, though. Got plants and everything.

Mark

[ManhattanProject972]

That new/old SV looks like it has a transformation similart tothe 262 just with different wings and a conventionalc canopy.

[anime52k8]

Windemere has some of the sexiest fighters, dear god this is beautiful.

Edited May 2, 2016 by anime52k8

[Seto Kaiba]

Don't play with my emotions now... That almost sounds like it needs to happen. I can see it now, testing new thermoacoustic heat management system. Some idiot puts on Fire Bomber, everything explodes brilliantly and in the distance across the stars you can hear Basara shouting "BOMBAA!!!" through fold space cause he is just so happy his song could move machines to amazing explosions, lol.

This sounds more like a job for a metal band than Basara... perhaps a Metalocalypse - Macross crossover?

I just meant that fuel (as in, propellant) wasn't the chief limitation, as the atmosphere is being used as a propellant. So, as long as the reactor is going, the fighter could fly. Or so I figured. But, flying around the world several times should be as good as unlimited for most purposes

Yep... and all indications are that a VF-1 should be significantly more efficient than the NASA concept, which was theoretically able to circumnavigate the world on a pound of reactant per engine. (For the record, a VF-1 with full tanks is carrying approximately 264lb of fuel.)

RTGs, right? I knew of them, but heard they were pretty inefficient and slow (not to mention dangerous). Thermocouples are great and all, but I assumed in Macross they had much more effective ways to convert heat into electricity.

The Variable Fighter Master File books mention two ways power is extracted from the reaction... one is a barely-mentioned system called the HamiltonX-Ash4 Power Generation System, the other is a MHD generator. From the description, which is vague at best and makes reference to a "Glen effect" (グレン効果) I'm not familiar with, it sounds like they're using something along the lines of a Seebeck effect thermoelectric generator (involving heating of dissimilar alloys) to directly convert heat from the reaction into usable electrical energy in the former system.

I think he was just putting it dramatically to emphasize his point. Pretty much all official material I've come across state that the VF-1 (and by extension, all subsequent VFs) have an effectively unlimited range in an Earth-type atmosphere. So, toilet breaks, coolant and armament usage, and other annoying things like that are the main limitation on atmospheric flight.

Not really exaggerating, but yeah... the fleshy meats are definitely the weak link in the chain, at least until the next-generation model EX-Gear that turns into a toilet. (Y'know, like in Reconguista in G... damn that was weird.)

[azrael]

... at least until the next-generation model EX-Gear that turns into a toilet. (Y'know, like in Reconguista in G... damn that was weird.)

I'd hate to be part of the flight crew that has to maintain the fighter of the pilot that had the triple bean burrito for lunch. Fire-in-the-hole indeed.

[Valkyrie Driver]

I'd hate to be part of the flight crew that has to maintain the fighter of the pilot that had the triple bean burrito for lunch. Fire-in-the-hole indeed.

Or worse, golumpki (minced meat with barley or rice wrapped in cabbage leaves and steamed, traditional polish food). Do some negative G's and you'd be cleaning it out of said ex gear, and off the consoles too... (A good friend of my dad's had that before an air intercept exercise, he had to burn his helmet bag...)

Edited May 2, 2016 by Valkyrie Driver

[Seto Kaiba]

I'd hate to be part of the flight crew that has to maintain the fighter of the pilot that had the triple bean burrito for lunch. Fire-in-the-hole indeed.

Drain the port-a-john into an air-to-ground missile after serving Indian food in the mess... Hellfire indeed.

[RedWolf]

There's been some discussion on the episode thread about WHAT ships did the colonization forty years ago, which is also technical discussion. Obviously a Megaroad-class ship made contact with Windermere, which if it happened in the late 2020s means they'd probably run out of repurposed Zentradi ships to act as the escort fleet by that point... The escorts were not quite discernable, but one of them looked to be the model seen later over Vordor, itself perhaps a variant on the "Macross Galaxy refugee ship" from Frontier (with an asymmetrical forward end, perhaps even based on Quarter?). Speaking of which, the smaller ships are definitely based on the Deneb-class ships from the same fleet, though are not identical. One wonders who makes these things?

Who funded Macross Galaxy? General Galaxy known to build fighters to ships engines to the City class.

[BChoinski]

Pretty sure that's just an artistic convention meant to make the Valkyries more visible against a black backdrop.

Yeah, the tech manuals go into some excruciating detail on some things. Not always interesting things, mind you... Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 has a half-page aside on how overtechnology materials have affected the designs of threaded fasteners. That's right, it devotes ink to overtechnology bolts. Not the most riveting material, if I do say so myself.

(... and I hope you'll forgive that dreadful joke.)

When you think about it, the way the thermonuclear reaction engines are described is not altogether different from how Star Trek's impulse engines work... just without the magic, mass-canceling subspace field. Sort of a thrust-vectored hybrid of ion thruster and fusion rocket. You've got a LOT of juice to play with courtesy of the reactors, so you can brute force the thrust with the MPD arcjet by throwing hundreds (or thousands) of megawatts at the problem. (Sky Angels actually sets the 650MW/engine on the VF-1 as its typical output and 1,700MW/engine as its maximum.) Seems to consume fuel at a monstrous rate though... from the description in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2, a VF-1 in space flight is consuming something to the tune of 1.79 liters of hydrogen per second per engine at peak output. With FAST packs, that gives them a maximum combat endurance a few seconds short of 30 minutes. Presumably that can be extended through judicious use of the rocket engines.

... well, that's actually true. We know they can convert g-forces into extradimensional energy somehow, because that's how the inertia store converter works, and heat isn't nearly as hard to redirect as acceleration forces.

Pretty sure that's just an artistic convention meant to make the Valkyries more visible against a black backdrop.

Yeah, the tech manuals go into some excruciating detail on some things. Not always interesting things, mind you... Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.1 has a half-page aside on how overtechnology materials have affected the designs of threaded fasteners. That's right, it devotes ink to overtechnology bolts. Not the most riveting material, if I do say so myself.

(... and I hope you'll forgive that dreadful joke.)

When you think about it, the way the thermonuclear reaction engines are described is not altogether different from how Star Trek's impulse engines work... just without the magic, mass-canceling subspace field. Sort of a thrust-vectored hybrid of ion thruster and fusion rocket. You've got a LOT of juice to play with courtesy of the reactors, so you can brute force the thrust with the MPD arcjet by throwing hundreds (or thousands) of megawatts at the problem. (Sky Angels actually sets the 650MW/engine on the VF-1 as its typical output and 1,700MW/engine as its maximum.) Seems to consume fuel at a monstrous rate though... from the description in Variable Fighter Master File: VF-1 Valkyrie Vol.2, a VF-1 in space flight is consuming something to the tune of 1.79 liters of hydrogen per second per engine at peak output. With FAST packs, that gives them a maximum combat endurance a few seconds short of 30 minutes. Presumably that can be extended through judicious use of the rocket engines.

... well, that's actually true. We know they can convert g-forces into extradimensional energy somehow, because that's how the inertia store converter works, and heat isn't nearly as hard to redirect as acceleration forces.

Perhaps they shunt the heat energy into superdimensional space? Overtechnology seems to involve transfer back and forth, possible to open a pinhole fold and dump the heat in some manner?

[Master Dex]

Perhaps they shunt the heat energy into superdimensional space? Overtechnology seems to involve transfer back and forth, possible to open a pinhole fold and dump the heat in some manner?

I've been suggesting this, but since it can't be confirmed outside of a show reference and is basically a hand wave it is just a musing at best.

[Product9]

Oh, real-world thermocouples are inefficient as heck(less than 10% efficiency). But not slow or dangerous.

Oh, sorry. I meant RTGs, not thermocouples. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I only meant 'slow' in regards to using something like an RTG to power a jet fighter, where you'd have to have a much faster conversion of copious amounts of energy. I'm not sure even a small sized fission reactor could meet those demands.

And I only meant dangerous in the case of a casing breach, which seems to be the chief concern. Otherwise, why not have RTGs powering our cars? Well, I guess there is cost to consider, but that's no fun.

But that is exactly the same kind of excitation they're talking about. In fact, they're talking about turning the exhaust itself into a lasing medium. But if you add energy to an atom to raise the energy state of its electrons, you also make it hotter, by definition. (Let's just ignore the additional heat generated by these lasers for the moment)

Injecting more heat is very rarely part of an effective cooling solution.

I think I read somewhere that BattleMechs sometimes operate in very hot environments, so in order to effectively bleed heat they sometimes have to heat their coolant to a higher temperature than the outside environment, otherwise the heatsinks would work in reverse.

This doesn't seem like a terribly effective way to manage heat, though, because ultimately you aren't getting rid of anything. Unless you are actually dumping the coolant as thermal mass, which would impose some hefty limits on operation time. I don't know man, BattleTech is a weird mishmash of real world physics and stuff that doesn't make sense. I was sort of hoping you all could shed some light on it.

For the record I'm not a BTech fan, but I do play MechWarrior.

I think you could say the big difference in the plumes in Zero can be attributed to the fact they were using conventional over trimmed (the use of the term "tuned" drives me nuts when I watch Zero) turbine engines in the both the VF-0 and SV-51. Conventional augmentors put out long burner plumes. So long and bright that at night you can see them after takeoff for almost a mile or more. Like Dex said alot of it would have to do with the type of fuel being burned.

The plumes were crazy long in Plus too.

You are correct about that, constant thrusting is not needed in space. The show implies they do it anyway, but artistic license and all that. Realistically, they likely are not always thrusting, and that does make a difference. However having a high acceleration can be beneficial in combat too, which does require thrust. With the inertia store converter, g-forces aren't as much to worry about either probably.

I think DYRL? had the most realistic depiction of spaceflight for the Valkyries. This is a subject I am really, really interested in.

After watching the remake of Battlestar Galactica, I got interested in the Newtonian depiction of spaceflight. I put together a physics simulation in Unity to see how I could program a good spaceflight model, and it was really eye opening. I realized it's impossible to 'turn' in space - you can only rotate and translate. Also, constant acceleration posed problems because in order to change your vector you'd have to accelerate in the opposite direction with the same amount of thrust for the same amount of time to cancel your velocity. This led to me crashing a lot as I couldn't slow down in time to do stuff like diving into a trench like they did in Star Wars. So, I wrote a speed limiter that would cut the engines when a certain velocity was reached, and a flight control system that would cancel rotations and regulate velocities.

I also became aware of another problem with MOST space fighter designs - the cockpit placement. It occurred to me (thanks again to new Battlestar Galactica, which for the record I consider a really bad show with really good space fights) that the further the cockpit is from the center of rotation, the more g-forces the pilot is going to feel when doing fast rotations. If you apply that to something like the YF-19 or VF-31, most of the mass is aft and the cockpit is crazy far forward. Pitching in space would put a lot of g-forces on the pilot, pulling him or her toward the front of the cockpit like one of those spinning carnival rides. Only with the rider facing the opposite direction.

Of course, in modern Macross, they just fly around in space like they do in atmosphere, so nobody cares. But in DYRL? they at least tried.

Whatever, jets are cool.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Product9

[grigolosi]

I'd hate to be part of the flight crew that has to maintain the fighter of the pilot that had the triple bean burrito for lunch. Fire-in-the-hole indeed.

LOL.......I have had pilots leave full piddle packs in the cockpit after flight. The expediter called debrief and had them return to the jet and remove them after they asked if I would remove them for them......my expediter made it clear in each case that under no circumstances do his crew chiefs touch or handle human waste of any kind. The same goes for bowel movements or puking in the cockpit. The pilot will clean up his or her own S!@#/puke stained or soaked seat cushions and clean all the consoles themselves. Had a friend whose pilot (a Major and vice squadron commander) pissed all over the seat cushion in his jet....that Major was not happy with his post debrief activities.

That is one heck of a biological weapon Seto............

Edited May 2, 2016 by grigolosi

[Zinjo]

The older Windemere fighters are a cross between the SV-51 from Macross Zero and the real-life F-104 Starfighter. Can't really see if they're transformable, but the way it's animated suggests it's a CG model - and if so, if it's transformable that's already built-in. Given the plot showing a LOT of stuff originating seven years ago when these ships were flying, I'm guessing we'll see these things in action via flashback at some point - and if so, we'll also see whatever NUNS was flying against them. Probably the ubiquitous VF-171, but who knows - the VF-25 is TECHNICALLY available...

There's been some discussion on the episode thread about WHAT ships did the colonization forty years ago, which is also technical discussion. Obviously a Megaroad-class ship made contact with Windermere, which if it happened in the late 2020s means they'd probably run out of repurposed Zentradi ships to act as the escort fleet by that point... The escorts were not quite discernable, but one of them looked to be the model seen later over Vordor, itself perhaps a variant on the "Macross Galaxy refugee ship" from Frontier (with an asymmetrical forward end, perhaps even based on Quarter?). Speaking of which, the smaller ships are definitely based on the Deneb-class ships from the same fleet, though are not identical. One wonders who makes these things?

As for the fleet that landed on Ragna (did they just shore up like that, all at once? No one analyzes a planet for months from orbit, determining a good place to land an advance party to make first contact? How un-Trekkish..), the island/city ship that landed is the one we see in the central city in the present day. We can't really tell if the ship that's attached to the front is a New Macross class carrier or whatever Elysion is, but the escorts are the stock models for the Northampton / Uraga / Stealth Cruiser we've already seen, suggesting the latter is an older design that simply wasn't seen in Macross Plus / 7 for whatever reason. The City ship itself seems never to have had a clamshell, suggesting it was an earlier design, but still not NECESSARILY a New Macross class ship.

Oh, and on the Aether, we see that the darkened room they were using in the first episode is their briefing room, though who knows if they have several identical rooms like it on the carrier ships and the Elysion herself. Comfy enough place, though. Got plants and everything.

Mark

The Dulfim Class and Denebs appear to be the cap ship escorts of the day. The Galaxy departed during the Megaroad era so it stands to reason it had the same escort ships as a Megaroad fleet.

It has been speculated in the episode thread the Ragna City ship is the NMC-01. It was the only city ship never to have a clamshell cover.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Zinjo

[BChoinski]

Oh, sorry. I meant RTGs, not thermocouples. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I only meant 'slow' in regards to using something like an RTG to power a jet fighter, where you'd have to have a much faster conversion of copious amounts of energy. I'm not sure even a small sized fission reactor could meet those demands.

And I only meant dangerous in the case of a casing breach, which seems to be the chief concern. Otherwise, why not have RTGs powering our cars? Well, I guess there is cost to consider, but that's no fun.

I think I read somewhere that BattleMechs sometimes operate in very hot environments, so in order to effectively bleed heat they sometimes have to heat their coolant to a higher temperature than the outside environment, otherwise the heatsinks would work in reverse.

This doesn't seem like a terribly effective way to manage heat, though, because ultimately you aren't getting rid of anything. Unless you are actually dumping the coolant as thermal mass, which would impose some hefty limits on operation time. I don't know man, BattleTech is a weird mishmash of real world physics and stuff that doesn't make sense. I was sort of hoping you all could shed some light on it.

For the record I'm not a BTech fan, but I do play MechWarrior.

The plumes were crazy long in Plus too.

I think DYRL? had the most realistic depiction of spaceflight for the Valkyries. This is a subject I am really, really interested in.

After watching the remake of Battlestar Galactica, I got interested in the Newtonian depiction of spaceflight. I put together a physics simulation in Unity to see how I could program a good spaceflight model, and it was really eye opening. I realized it's impossible to 'turn' in space - you can only rotate and translate. Also, constant acceleration posed problems because in order to change your vector you'd have to accelerate in the opposite direction with the same amount of thrust for the same amount of time to cancel your velocity. This led to me crashing a lot as I couldn't slow down in time to do stuff like diving into a trench like they did in Star Wars. So, I wrote a speed limiter that would cut the engines when a certain velocity was reached, and a flight control system that would cancel rotations and regulate velocities.

I also became aware of another problem with MOST space fighter designs - the cockpit placement. It occurred to me (thanks again to new Battlestar Galactica, which for the record I consider a really bad show with really good space fights) that the further the cockpit is from the center of rotation, the more g-forces the pilot is going to feel when doing fast rotations. If you apply that to something like the YF-19 or VF-31, most of the mass is aft and the cockpit is crazy far forward. Pitching in space would put a lot of g-forces on the pilot, pulling him or her toward the front of the cockpit like one of those spinning carnival rides. Only with the rider facing the opposite direction.

Of course, in modern Macross, they just fly around in space like they do in atmosphere, so nobody cares. But in DYRL? they at least tried.

Whatever, jets are cool.

Babylon 5 had a nod to this with the Starfuries -- the cockpit was at center of mass (more or less)

[David Hingtgen]

Hmmmmn. Proto-Flanker:

Note main gear doors/airbrakes.

[Product9]

Babylon 5 had a nod to this with the Starfuries -- the cockpit was at center of mass (more or less)

Oh yeah. I've been meaning to watch that.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Product9

[JB0]

Oh, sorry. I meant RTGs, not thermocouples. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

RTGs use thermocouples to generate electricity. We're on the same page, I think.

I only meant 'slow' in regards to using something like an RTG to power a jet fighter, where you'd have to have a much faster conversion of copious amounts of energy. I'm not sure even a small sized fission reactor could meet those demands.

And I only meant dangerous in the case of a casing breach, which seems to be the chief concern. Otherwise, why not have RTGs powering our cars? Well, I guess there is cost to consider, but that's no fun.

A small fission reactor is, well, not likely. There's geometric considerations that place a minimum size limit, though apparently some the size of large trash cans have been built.

And yeah, in the event of a casing breach, RTGs would be dangerous, but that's why the casings are heavily armored. It's like a car is dangerous because the fuel tank might explode. It is POSSIBLE, but not LIKELY. So just saying "RTGs are dangerous" oversells the situation greatly.

Small RTGs are considered safe enough for human implantation(and were designed to withstand gunfire), so I reckon the danger is minimal.

I think I read somewhere that BattleMechs sometimes operate in very hot environments, so in order to effectively bleed heat they sometimes have to heat their coolant to a higher temperature than the outside environment, otherwise the heatsinks would work in reverse.

This doesn't seem like a terribly effective way to manage heat, though, because ultimately you aren't getting rid of anything. Unless you are actually dumping the coolant as thermal mass, which would impose some hefty limits on operation time. I don't know man, BattleTech is a weird mishmash of real world physics and stuff that doesn't make sense. I was sort of hoping you all could shed some light on it.

Yeah, that doesn't make sense either. If the environment is hotter than the engine, then you will take in heat regardless. If the engine is hotter than the environment, you don't need to preheat the coolant because it will rapidly rise above ambient temperature regardless.

And if the environment is not cooler than a fusion powerplant, it means your vehicle is operating inside a star and you have bigger problems than your engine overheating.

Venting coolant works exceptionally well, but has exactly the drawback you mentioned.

You could, however, make a hybrid system. For instance, have a tank of ice water that you spray across a car radiator to enhance cooling in hot weather.

It sounds like, when Battletech is attempting to operate within the bounds of physics, they consider each system completely independently, and get crazy illogical because of it.

"Oh, but the cooling system won't work if ambient temperature is higher than the coolant. Better put in rules about preheating the coolant."

"Umm, won't the GIANT BALL OF NUCLEAR HELLFIRE preheat it for you?"

"What are you talking about? That's the fusion reactor, not the cooling system."

[d3v]

Meltran gunboat?

[Nazareno2012]

Meltran gunboat?

I think it may be a NMC Battle section, most likely the one originally attached to the City ship on the planet.

[d3v]

I think it may be a NMC Battle section, most likely the one originally attached to the City ship on the planet.

The twin prong design makes it look more like a gunboat IMO.

[Nazareno2012]

The twin prong design makes it look more like a gunboat IMO.

It looks like a NMC IMO as when you look at it closely, the prongs are only short segments at the bow. The overall shape also points to NMC.

[d3v]

It looks like a NMC IMO as when you look at it closely, the prongs are only short segments at the bow. The overall shape also points to NMC.

It doesn't seem to have the NMC's 2 box form (arms/legs). It also has what seems to be wings on the side (similar to the Meltran gunboat) as well as the ventral fin.

[Mr March]

I think it would make sense that it would be a New Macross Class ship, the Battle Class that lead the City Class ship to this planet, except that it doesn't fit the known NMC ships silhouettes. It could be the Stealth Cruiser or a variant thereof. It does have the basic rectangular block shape, outboard "wing" type sections to either port/starboard, and a prominent "spike-shaped" hull formation to the rear.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Mr March

[Seto Kaiba]

Perhaps they shunt the heat energy into superdimensional space? Overtechnology seems to involve transfer back and forth, possible to open a pinhole fold and dump the heat in some manner?

Doubtful, IMO... it takes a lot more doing to send matter (and energy) from our universe into super dimension space than it does to draw heavy quanta from super dimension space into our universe. I suspect that, prior to the 4th Generation, reactors were simply keeping the fusion reaction at a low-enough level that most of the energy could be harnessed by the HamiltonX-Ash4 PGS and the MHD, and what was left could be either harnessed to preheat reactant or vented through exhaust or traditional cooling systems. It isn't until the 4th Generation and the introduction of thermonuclear reaction burst turbine engines that we start hearing about them having heat-dissipation problems that necessitate either larger heat sinks or throttling of the reactor itself.

LOL.......I have had pilots leave full piddle packs in the cockpit after flight. The expediter called debrief and had them return to the jet and remove them after they asked if I would remove them for them......my expediter made it clear in each case that under no circumstances do his crew chiefs touch or handle human waste of any kind. The same goes for bowel movements or puking in the cockpit. The pilot will clean up his or her own S!@#/puke stained or soaked seat cushions and clean all the consoles themselves. Had a friend whose pilot (a Major and vice squadron commander) pissed all over the seat cushion in his jet....that Major was not happy with his post debrief activities.

It's little tales like this that really ought to crop up in Macross sometime... the trials and travails of the deck crew who have to keep those Valkyries running. A wild child like Hayate Immelman or Isamu Dyson would probably drive the deck crew into paroxysms of fury in prolonged operations...

[d3v]

I think it would make sense that it would be a New Macross Class ship, the Battle Class that lead the City Class ship to this planet, except that it doesn't fit the known NMC ships silhouettes. It could be the Stealth Cruiser or a variant thereof. It does have the basic rectangular block shape, outboard "wing" type sections to either port/starboard, and a prominent "spike-shaped" hull formation to the rear.

Might be just putting a random ship there just to add a bit more detail to the scene.

That said, I think that rear "spike" is simply the ventral protrusion of the gunboat.

Edited May 3, 2016 by d3v

[Rbstr]

Might be just putting a random ship there just to add a bit more detail to the scene.

That said, I think that rear "spike" is simply the ventral protrusion of the gunboat.

I would be looking to ships that already have a model built that they can stick there without a ton of hassle. The only time we've seen a Meltran ship outside of DYRL is Fleet of the strongest Women, I think. That makes it a very unlikely candidate. I'd think more along the lines of something they've got laying around. My money is on an Uraga, which kinda fits the two pointy bits and shape.

Alternatively, they DID build a model of the Meltran gunboat and that's why the Valk dancing backgrounds in this episode were really low budget.

[Zinjo]

I would be looking to ships that already have a model built that they can stick there without a ton of hassle. The only time we've seen a Meltran ship outside of DYRL is Fleet of the strongest Women, I think. That makes it a very unlikely candidate. I'd think more along the lines of something they've got laying around. My money is on an Uraga, which kinda fits the two pointy bits and shape.

Agreed.

Satellite is not going to spend its limited time and resources on a ship that will be in a scene for only a few seconds. CG takes a lot more time to build on the front end compared to 2D anime, so resources have to be planned.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Zinjo

[David Hingtgen]

Unless that ship has a huge role in future eps, and the model's already ready.

[Product9]

RTGs use thermocouples to generate electricity. We're on the same page, I think.

Yeah, we are.

Small RTGs are considered safe enough for human implantation(and were designed to withstand gunfire), so I reckon the danger is minimal.

I was only somewhat aware of that. Pretty interesting - I think I'll do some reading.