Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, spacemanoeuvres said:

Sorry if this has been discussed already (I searched but didn’t see anything): are there any specs on the sword used by the sv-262?

The data's minimal, but there's sufficient information to answer your questions.  

 

3 hours ago, spacemanoeuvres said:

Just wondering if it’s a simple edge weapon. Is it made of some modern material and/or used in conjunction with the pin point barrier system etc?

So far, the most detailed source talking about the DAS-03k "Draken Fang" assault sword is Bandai's 1/72 scale Sv-262 Draken III model kit instruction booklet.  Its specs section describes the DAS-03k assault sword as a folding sword composed of energy conversion armor material.  Making the blade section from energy conversion armor was a structural concession meant to reduce its mass so that it wouldn't unbalance the fighter in flight, though as a result the blade is too fragile to use in a fight unpowered. 
 

The DAS-03k's energy conversion armor blade is normally powered by a connection to the Sv-262's main power system through the manipulator (hand) holding it.  For backup power, the sword's hilt contains a high-energy capacitor with enough power for 3 minutes of continuous operation.

[spacemanoeuvres]

Thank you for the detailed response @Seto Kaiba!!!

You’re the man 50 grand

[kajnrig]

Not sure where else to put this, but just one of the many videos on the effect of G's on your body. I happen to subscribe to this guy's channel, so this showed up on my feed:

In the description below the video, he mentions that fighter pilots must be able to sustain 4-6 G's in a centrifuge. I wonder (and I'm sure I'm not the first to do so) how many G's would a VF pilot have to be able to put up with, considering the impossible maneuvers VFs regularly perform.

[sketchley]

It's about the same as real world pilots.

The difference starts at about the AVF fighters with the introduction of G-reducing technologies: seats with anti-G technology, ISC, etc..  For more info: http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/Stats/Statistics/Flightsuits/Flightsuits.php

(note: when it says something like 15 G, it actually means the anti-G technology is absorbing anything above the human limit of approx. 9 G.

 

[Seto Kaiba]

17 hours ago, kajnrig said:

In the description below the video, he mentions that fighter pilots must be able to sustain 4-6 G's in a centrifuge. I wonder (and I'm sure I'm not the first to do so) how many G's would a VF pilot have to be able to put up with, considering the impossible maneuvers VFs regularly perform.

10g+ is the figure that keeps cropping up in connection with the need for Inertia Store Converter technology.  The VF-19 and VF-22's high thrust-to-weight ratios and exceptional maneuverability made them naturally inclined to subject their pilots to g-forces in excess of 10g, which ultimately resulted in frequent crashes after loss of control.

The New UN Forces naturally invested no small amount of effort into trying to improve the g-force endurance of their pilots.  Better g-suits, seats that adjust the pilot's posture to optimize the blood flow, even a biological anti-g system that used EMPs and infrared to stimulate metabolic responses to stress.  It still eventually got to the point where they needed to resort to displacing the g-forces entirely... first with the YF-21's inertia vector control system, then with the Inertia Store Converter developed for the YF-24.  Pretty much a necessity for the 5th Gen, since above sustained loads of around 12-17g you're looking at injuries and death and the VF-25's rated for acceleration of 30.5g without its FAST packs on.

[snakerbot]

6 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

10g+ is the figure that keeps cropping up in connection with the need for Inertia Store Converter technology.

This sounds about right to me. The Red Bull air race penalizes* the pilots if they exceed 10g during their runs. I always figured this was a safety thing - they didn't want the pilots doing anything that could pose a risk to themselves or the spectators in exchange for time during their runs. I would expect g loads during an actual flight, either in the air race or combat would be over a shorter period of time than a centrifuge.

*Before this year, exceeding 10g for 0.6 second would be instant DNF. For 2018 onwards, it's a 2 second penalty, or a DNF for exceeding 12g at any point, although this depends on the class.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, snakerbot said:

This sounds about right to me. The Red Bull air race penalizes* the pilots if they exceed 10g during their runs.

Huh... so are they measuring that with an onboard accelerometer, or are they computing it from slow motion footage?

I imagine they're probably less worried about injury than they are about some hotshot putting himself into G-LOC and putting his plane into the spectators (or the ground).  The human body can take astonishing amounts of g's as transitory split-second loadings without incurring lethal damage... IIRC the standard benchmarks for injury start at around 50g with death being around 75-100g depending on the body part pulling that load... but sustained g-loads become injurious at much lower levels.

One can only wonder how many g's Guld was pulling when he died, since his fighter was equipped with an inertia vector control system to buffer high g and he STILL incurred lethal g-loads.  

For that matter, it makes one wonder were the buffer point starts on an inertia store converter.  Hayate was clearly pulling several g's when he got violently ill in his first flight with Mirage, and that VF did have a very good quality inertia store converter in it.

[kajnrig]

20 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

that VF did have a very good quality inertia store converter in it.

Did it? I thought the only major upgrade to the VF-1EX was EX Gear support?

[Seto Kaiba]

16 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Did it? I thought the only major upgrade to the VF-1EX was EX Gear support?

Before that, when Mirage takes him up in her VF-31C and he barfs all over her on landing.

[kajnrig]

31 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Before that, when Mirage takes him up in her VF-31C and he barfs all over her on landing.

Oh, right. Whoops.

[tiaolipa]

Hello there,

 

It's my first post =D

Well, I'll start saying this is my personal version of the VF-31 S Haha

Since I like it ended up looking, I wanted it to best the YF-30 in a "Lore friendly" way, so I came up this, inspired by the VF-25 Tornado Pack.

Since I don't have any patience for the Walkure plot, they could all get killed and Arad would bring his plane back to full military spec.

The engines would be trimmed back to the YF-30 specs of 2110kn

The leg storage would be ripped of those drones and get back micro missiles.

The ray cannons back to the 27mm standard of the VF-31A

The container pod changed from the recharging thing to a Micro Missile lancher/container

 

With the Fold Wave System providing infinite energy a gun pod like the BGP-01beta from  a VF-27 could have both its firing modes boosted considerably.

To increase forward firepower at low cost, on the other wing hard point, the GU17A from a VF-25 and Two Reaction Missiles

And then the boosted performance from the VF-31 F LillDrakens. Assuming they have the same engine of the sv-262, that's 1995kn each!

With that thrust to weight and each rotating 360° in atmosphere or space this thing would be insane maneuverable.

Also fuel and armor could be augmented in space adding FAST pack parts.

 

With the firepower of the mini gunpods rapid firing armor piercing shells, plus the Gu17 with high explosive shells, the turreted beam gun pod and the BGP-01, 8 more micro missile launcher on the drones, and their 30mm beam cannons directly linked to their engines...

 

This is a hell of a competitor even for the YF-29, VF-27 and may even beat the Earth-spec Vf-24!

 

What do you think?

(Oh, the picture is from my bandai 1/72 kit, I'm no master builder and I'm still learning haha. I changed the color scheme so it could mess less with the fighter's silhouette, changing the nose, the wing stripes and adding some details)

 

 

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

Since I don't have any patience for the Walkure plot, they could all get killed and Arad would bring his plane back to full military spec.

That would be a downgrade... not an upgrade.

The VF-31 Siegfried isn't a production specification.  They're all one-of-a-kind "ace custom" units built on the Surya Aerospace VF-31A Kairos, which are produced on an as-needed basis for pilots selected to join the Xaos 3rd Fighter Wing Δ Flight.  Returning a Siegfried to military spec would mean stripping out the expensive non-standard hardware and software that Xaos Valkyrie Works added to restore it to its stock VF-31A configuration.  (Not a shabby 5th Generation VF by any means, but on the low end if we're considering performance.)

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

The engines would be trimmed back to the YF-30 specs of 2110kn

The derated FF-3001/FC2 engines the Siegfried already has are enough to overstress the airframe at 1,875kN... Hayate got told off for the damage he was causing by being too rough on his Siegfried on at least one occasion in the series.  The VF-31 airframe was only designed for the stock FF-3001A engines at 1,645kN.  Exceeding the design limit by almost 30% instead of 13% isn't likely to do nice things to the airframe.

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

The ray cannons back to the 27mm standard of the VF-31A

Those are railguns.

Given that they have what are clearly cartridge ejection ports, the jury is out on whether they are purely electromagnetic or are like the SSL-9B Dragonuv as a two-stage system that uses both chemical propellants and a linear motor.

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

With the Fold Wave System providing infinite energy a gun pod like the BGP-01beta from  a VF-27 could have both its firing modes boosted considerably.

The Fold Wave System doesn't provide energy in infinite quantity... but in infinite duration, for as long as it's running.  (It's not on all the time either.)  The VF-31 Siegfried's fold wave system is also implied to be less powerful than the YF-29's because it uses a lot less fold quartz.

The YF-27-5 and VF-27 needed at least three Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines worth of output to power such a large dimensional beam weapon.  I would guess that with its fold wave system active it could possibly power the BGP-01 heavy quantum beam gunpod to its normal operating levels.  (Macross tends to take the more realistic view that "more power" doesn't equal better results... pushing something past its design limits tends to just result in damage and unpredictable behavior, if not a sudden and violent mechanical failure.)

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

And then the boosted performance from the VF-31 F LillDrakens. Assuming they have the same engine of the sv-262, that's 1995kn each!

The Sv-262's engines are rated for 1,955kN, not 1,995.  

We haven't had detailed specs for the LD-262S Lilldrakens yet, but in all likelihood they're using previous-generation thermonuclear reaction burst turbines rated at ~500-600kN, similar to what was used on the QF-5100 Goblin II that formed part of the VF-27's Super Pack.  Stage II engines would be too expensive for an ostensibly disposable drone, and with the existing engines already pushing the limits of the fighter's inertia store converter turning the pilot into a flightsuit full of chunky salsa by doubling engine thrust would be inherently counterproductive.  Abuse of the Sv-262's fold reheat for a 25-30% temporary performance gain was enough to trash an Sv-262 badly enough to require significant downtime and/or replacement of the aircraft, a 200% increase would total the plane if it didn't just tear the wings off... and the Draken III's ISC is a fair bit better than the VF-31's. 

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

With that thrust to weight and each rotating 360° in atmosphere or space this thing would be insane maneuverable.

With the more manageable 500-600kN per wing of additional thrust it would be more maneuverable, but the gains would be limited by the limits of the fighter's ISC system to buffer excessive g-forces.  Without the ISC buffering the excessive g-forces on the plane... well... you've seen Macross Plus, right?  The ISC's buffer capacity is only about 2 minutes at a time, so that extra power and maneuverability would have to be used sparingly to prevent damage or accidental injury.

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

With the firepower of the mini gunpods rapid firing armor piercing shells, plus the Gu17 with high explosive shells, the turreted beam gun pod and the BGP-01, 8 more micro missile launcher on the drones, and their 30mm beam cannons directly linked to their engines...

It's not actually that much of a gain in firepower.  

The GU-17A is supposedly roughly on par with the LU-18A for stopping power, but it has limited ammunition.  Having gunpods in the hands is likely going to stop a VF-31 from using the forearm-mounted railguns as well.  It's only going to have enough power for the BGP-01 if it's fold wave system is running.  The beam machineguns on the Lilldrakens are only about as powerful as the beam machineguns mounted on VFs as it is.  (Generator output from a thermonuclear reaction engine is using the surplus after thrust production, so, much like VFs, there isn't enough surplus to put a really grunty beam weapon on there since most of the power is going to generating thrust.  The Lilldraken's noted to be running pretty close to the limits of its power generation capacity as it is, such that while it has energy converting armor it is mostly dependent on power supplied from its docked mothership to actually utilize it.)

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

This is a hell of a competitor even for the YF-29, VF-27 and may even beat the Earth-spec Vf-24!

Unlikely, for reasons given above.

 

2 hours ago, tiaolipa said:

What do you think?

There are some issues with your spec idea, but you've done a fine job with the model.  

[Bolt]

Model looks awesome !

Arad scheme rocks!

Turret idea is cool . A la VF-25 Tornadoe?

19 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

..and with the existing engines already pushing the limits of the fighter's inertia store converter turning the pilot into a flightsuit full of chunky salsa..

OMG.. had to laugh at that..

I appreciate the idea  very much, you trying to out do the mythical VF-24.

seems as if you need a different air frame as your base , tho I do love what you’ve  done with the 31..

Edited December 21, 2018 by Bolt

[ivorysniper]

On 4/17/2018 at 10:20 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

Huh... so are they measuring that with an onboard accelerometer, or are they computing it from slow motion footage?

1

Probably from the onboard accelerometer and downlinking it to the production crew for real-time broadcast. Austrian pilot Hannes Arch (RIP) pulling 11.2 Gs below. I recall having seen G-Meter snips during the half cuban eight, but didn't find any of them.

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by ivorysniper

[Aries Turner]

What I found interesting about using Lilldrakens, is that those make the resulting combo both a no-frills TW31 Tornado Siegfried and a Drone Controller RVF-31 Luca Angeloni Custom/ Limited Edition (limited to two, from three in the RVF-25, plus another three if a second controller is seated in the cockpit).

As General Galaxy would be an unlikely provider for Xaos for the foreseeable future, the Brisingr Cluster would do well finding a supplier for their very own little drone for this SPS-31++ configuration. Preferably with hardpoints, making the VF-31 jump from 2/4 hardpoints to 6/8.

Edited February 28, 2019 by Aries Turner
Typos

[twich]

Don’t recall seeing this discussed before, but looking at some of the more detailed pics of the SV-154, I can see that it does not appear to have a visible gunpod, but does have two missile pods, one on each wing. Looks to be a smallish fighter, with no double front landing gear wheels. Any other thoughts? I like this design, but really like the SV-262, but like the -262, it is unique.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, twich said:

Don’t recall seeing this discussed before, but looking at some of the more detailed pics of the SV-154, I can see that it does not appear to have a visible gunpod, but does have two missile pods, one on each wing. Looks to be a smallish fighter, with no double front landing gear wheels. Any other thoughts? I like this design, but really like the SV-262, but like the -262, it is unique.

Considering who developed it, the Svard's gunpod is probably internally stored similar to the VF-14's or VF-17's.

We know almost nothing about it, except:

• It was developed by General Galaxy's SV Works team, who were sold off to the Epsilon Foundation subsidiary Dian Cecht.,, as such, it technically is a descendant of the design lineage of the SV-51 and SV-52 from the Unification Wars, since the SV Works were founded by a defector from the SV-51's design team who later cofounded General Galaxy.
• It was Windermere IV's main variable fighter throughout the 2050s and into the early 2060s.
• Its facing competition was the VF-171-II Nightmare Plus, which almost certainly makes it a 4th Generation VF (with all that entails).
• Its design, like so many Kawamori designs, is an updated reuse of a concept Kawamori created for an earlier project.  In this case, Air Cavalry Chronicles... the series concept which was developed into his fantasy series The Vision of Escaflowne.  Its original name was the LV-7 Valorous Rapier, one of three models of transformable fighter operated by Fanelia (the home nation of Escaflowne's protagonist Prince Van Fanel).

 

Given Windermere IV's demonstrated tactical priorities, it seems a safe bet the Svard was probably an atmospheric VF with less than stellar endurance in space like its replacement, the 5th Generation Sv-262 Draken III.  That would've been to its advantage during Windermere IV's 2060 war of independence, when it was facing off against the largely space-optimized VF-171-IIs of the Brisingr Alliance New UN Forces.

(Entertainingly, the LV-7 design had a big freaking sword just like the Draken III does in Macross Delta's final episode.)

[twich]

I cannot really tell, and considering the Valkyrie that replaced it, the SV-262, I am having a hard time seeing two thermonuclear reaction engines coming from the rear of that design, but I am sure that it is there.  Being a 4th generation Valkyrie design, it would be able to achieve satellite orbit unassisted.  It has something that its replacement does not have, in that it does not require super packs to be able to mount missiles.  Those two pods look like they were taken right from the SV-51.  Just wish we had some more information on another interesting design and its specifications.

Twich

[Sildani]

We don’t know that the Svard’s missile pods aren’t actually its Super Parts. I don’t think. 

[twich]

the pods look integrated into the wings

[sketchley]

6 hours ago, twich said:

I cannot really tell, and considering the Valkyrie that replaced it, the SV-262, I am having a hard time seeing two thermonuclear reaction engines coming from the rear of that design, but I am sure that it is there.  (...)

As a rear shot hasn't been released, it's hard to say with certainty, but it's probably just like the Sv-262: the exhaust of the two separate engines are pumped out of the one nozzle.

At the very least, it's consistent with the design ques from their only other known fighter.

[Focslain]

13 minutes ago, sketchley said:

As a rear shot hasn't been released, it's hard to say with certainty, but it's probably just like the Sv-262: the exhaust of the two separate engines are pumped out of the one nozzle.

At the very least, it's consistent with the design ques from their only other known fighter.

Sec...

So this is from the Uta Macross game, but the fighter models are about as good as in the recent Vita game.

If you need another angle I'll try for it, the lighting isn't the best, but you can see the two engine nozzles inside the main one formed by the feet.

[sketchley]

Erm, thanks, but I was referring to the Sv-154 Svard...

[Focslain]

5 minutes ago, sketchley said:

Erm, thanks, but I was referring to the Sv-154 Svard...

Sorry, coffee didn't kick in yet. 

[Seto Kaiba]

15 hours ago, twich said:

I cannot really tell, and considering the Valkyrie that replaced it, the SV-262, I am having a hard time seeing two thermonuclear reaction engines coming from the rear of that design, but I am sure that it is there.

Presumably it works the same way the Sv-262'd dual nozzle does.

Incidentally, I am a blind idiot as I apparently never noticed until I bothered to look at the uncolored line art... its gunpod is fit flush to the ventral hull, in much the same way that the SV-262's is flush to the dorsal hull.

 

15 hours ago, twich said:

It has something that its replacement does not have, in that it does not require super packs to be able to mount missiles.  Those two pods look like they were taken right from the SV-51.  Just wish we had some more information on another interesting design and its specifications.

There is that, but the conformal packs on the Draken III look to be much higher capacity and we know they're disposable, whereas these launchers are built directly into the wing and would be more difficult to service.

[twich]

I had not seen the gun pod tucked up in there either. If it is like the SV-262, then it might be a heavy quantum beam cannon.

[twich]

Also, what does that writing say?

[sketchley]

5 minutes ago, twich said:

Also, what does that writing say?

Re wing pods:  Sv-51 (illegible) micro-missile pods

re gun pod: "gun pod"

re nose:  something about the internals being shared with the "C-29 Monitor"

cockpit: I can't make it out exactly, but it's something along the lines of for Windermerians, or for training Windermerians.

Tail: I can't make anything out other than it's about the tail

[Mommar]

I'd really love to see more of the 154 (ie. toys).  I feel like the makeover from the original LV-7 design is far superior and really fleshes it out.

[Seto Kaiba]

42 minutes ago, twich said:

I had not seen the gun pod tucked up in there either. If it is like the SV-262, then it might be a heavy quantum beam cannon.

Heavy quantum beam weapons draw a LOT of power... so much so that a dedicated reactor or the 3rd Gen Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engines (or in one case, both) seem to be necessary to operate one.  

My guess would be that it's probably a stealth rotary cannon like the VF-171's GU-14B or MC-17C.  The Sv-154 Svard's allegedly a little better than the VF-171 in atmospheric combat, but as it's a mass production export model being built for the local planetary defense force of a relatively poor New UN Government member world with a low level of technological development I'd expect a design that focuses on being simple but effective without a lot of frills or unnecessary sophistication.

 

32 minutes ago, sketchley said:

cockpit: I can't make it out exactly, but it's something along the lines of for Windermerians, or for training Windermerians.

Sorry for the crap quality of the picture, devices with photographic capabilities aren't allowed in my workplace (forward model development, y'know?) so I had to make do with a picture someone posted on a Yahoo! Japan blog.

From what I've read, the Svard was designed to exploit the superior physical abilities of the Windermerean pilots flying it, like the Sv-262 was.

[AN/ALQ128]

3 hours ago, Mommar said:

I'd really love to see more of the 154 (ie. toys).  I feel like the makeover from the original LV-7 design is far superior and really fleshes it out.

Yeah, it hews far closer to its design inspiration now, which is neat.

 

[twich]

is it just me or does that vertical stabilizer appear to be hinged?  I wonder if this design is very similar to what we see in the SV-262?   Also, there appears to be a seam on the underside right before the thrust vector paddles/feet.  Would be very interesting to see this design flushed out into a 3 mode transformation.

I too would love to see a Bandai DX make of this design along with a whole bunch more SV-262 toys.  who knows, we have  whole new Delta movie coming....we can hope

Twich

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, twich said:

is it just me or does that vertical stabilizer appear to be hinged?

There might be a hinge at the base, but what you're seeing in that picture is a T-tail similar to the ones on the Gloster Javelin or F-104 Starfighter.  Though, from the line art, it seems to differ from the F-104's in one crucial regard: the tail appears to have a conventional horizontal stabilizer and elevator configuration instead of stabilators like the F-101 Voodoo or the F-104 Starfighter (where the whole horizontal stabilizer itself moved as a control surface).  As a whole, the design is inspired by the F-104.

 

8 hours ago, twich said:

Also, there appears to be a seam on the underside right before the thrust vector paddles/feet.  Would be very interesting to see this design flushed out into a 3 mode transformation.

That's probably where the two legs join to form the engine nacelle.