Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Aries Turner]

we've seen in previous titles that some ships in Macross don't keep their entire hangar pressurized.

Mostly Daedalus, Prometheus and ARMD. Uraga onward seem pressurized. Gitmo has a large forward, highly exposed, unpressurized hangar however. It is a shame, it was my favorite carrier: Uragas, New Macross (7-25) and Quarter made no sense to me visually. I am glad for 'Two thirds Macross' Elysion.

[trojan_gambit]

I'd assume that's just the reaction chamber portion of the barrel where they produce the superheavy quantum that the gun excites with a resonance fold effect to produce the dimension eater effect it projects outward as a beam.

Needed a few minutes to digest this single line....

The catch is that it only benefits the weapons of the YF-29, YF-30, and possibly VF-31 Siegfried.

The YF-27-3, YF-27-5, and VF-27 didn't have a fold wave system, and the poor man's fold wave system (the reheat system) in the Sv-262 Draken III is focused on increasing engine thrust.

What are exactly the functions of Fold crystal/wave (Especially in the Valks) ?

From Frontier, I understand that it functions as a mean of communications. Never thought that it can affect engine performance too.

Edited September 22, 2016 by trojan_gambit

[Master Dex]

Needed a few minutes to digest this single line....

What are exactly the functions of Fold crystal/wave (Especially in the Valks) ?

From Frontier, I understand that it functions as a mean of communications. Never thought that it can affect engine performance too.

Fold quartz can communicate fold waves but that is the simplest thing they do. It is also the basis of the fold wave system. Basically when certain fold waves are picked up (like from singing cause that's a commodity now in Macross) the philosopher stone fold quartz can resonate and draw energy straight from super dimension space. In the VFs using this the design has that energy used for the rather costly weapons systems. This means when the fold wave system is active the engines are not required to supply as much power to weapons and can use more of their energy for other stuff, typically higher thrust.

The reason fold waves from singing are often the most effective is because of the emotional component from the singer and what they are putting into it. Fold waves can transit emotional states as quantifiable energy it seems. It is possible other types of fold waves may work but we haven't seen that.

[Seto Kaiba]

Needed a few minutes to digest this single line....

It's complicated.

What are exactly the functions of Fold crystal/wave (Especially in the Valks) ?

Fold waves are basically the fold space equivalent of electromagnetic waves... they're produced as an unintentional consequence of operating overtechnology systems that use super dimension spatial physics like thermonuclear reaction power systems, gravity control systems, space fold systems converging beam cannons, dimensional warheads, etc. They're also produced intentionally for technologies that leverage the faster-than-light propigation of fold waves in radio and radar applications.

From Frontier, I understand that it functions as a mean of communications. Never thought that it can affect engine performance too.

The Fold Wave System on the YF-29 and select later aircraft has two functions:

• By harnessing and amplifying fold waves using fold quartz, it enables the VF to draw energy directly from super dimension space in the same manner that the Vajra do. This enables the VF to use energy-intensive technologies which would otherwise be unusable in fighter mode like pinpoint barriers or energy conversion armor.

  It's not clear if the boost to engine power is from the engines not needing to divert energy from the reaction to the generators, or if it's the fold waves themselves changing the reaction inside the engine. The former seems the more likely one.

• The VF gains the ability to receive, jam, or amplify fold waves from other sources... e.g. singers with a fold receptor factor or v-type bacterium, Vajra songs, etc.

[kalvasflam]

• The VF gains the ability to receive, jam, or amplify fold waves from other sources... e.g. singers with a fold receptor factor or v-type bacterium, Vajra songs, etc.

Ah ha, and hence the wings of light glow thingie that has been copied from the Gundamverse.... ok, that explains it.

[aurance]

I'm curious why the VF-31's gunpod can detach from the pod and be held, or why you would need to, since it's on a turret mount...

[Master Dex]

I'm curious why the VF-31's gunpod can detach from the pod and be held, or why you would need to, since it's on a turret mount...

Because it's cool... lol

[Aries Turner]

I'm curious why the VF-31's gunpod can detach from the pod and be held, or why you would need to, since it's on a turret mount...

That turret seems to have azimuth limits. You can argue that Gerwalk mode is agile enough to turn and point, but then battroid mode, while slower than any other mode, is also the most agile, right from SDFM and Zero. In Battroid mode, the turret arc of fire is extremely narrow, thus mounting it on the arm is an obvious choice.

Slower military fighters usually have tighter turning radius than fast jets. Usually, and not stressing enough the 'military' role (and structural reinforcement and maximized control surfaces for that exact purpose).

[aurance]

That turret seems to have azimuth limits. You can argue that Gerwalk mode is agile enough to turn and point, but then battroid mode, while slower than any other mode, is also the most agile, right from SDFM and Zero. In Battroid mode, the turret arc of fire is extremely narrow, thus mounting it on the arm is an obvious choice.

Slower military fighters usually have tighter turning radius than fast jets. Usually, and not stressing enough the 'military' role (and structural reinforcement and maximized control surfaces for that exact purpose).

That's reasonable, but then why have a turret at all if hand-held is better?

[Aries Turner]

That I dunno: hands free operation? to double-wield two other gunpods?

[aurance]

That I dunno: hands free operation? to double-wield two other gunpods?

Haha, should hold two gunpods and then two more on the turret!

[Ghostbear0]

Haha, should hold two gunpods and then two more on the turret!

.......... You know there is absolutely no reason it couldn't.

[Zinjo]

.......... You know there is absolutely no reason it couldn't.

That would make it the VF-31 Stampede...

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm curious why the VF-31's gunpod can detach from the pod and be held, or why you would need to, since it's on a turret mount...

The range of movement of the ordinance container is somewhat limited... being handheld clears that problem right up.

Haha, should hold two gunpods and then two more on the turret!

How many gunpods does one fighter need?

(The current official recordholder is the VF-2SS Valkyrie II, which can carry three gunpods without resorting to hardpoints. Pseudo-official loadings also give the VF-1's Armored Pack and VF-25 the ability to carry three gunpods at once.)

[Zinjo]

The range of movement of the ordinance container is somewhat limited... being handheld clears that problem right up.

How many gunpods does one fighter need?

How much armor does one fighter need?

[Ghostbear0]

Boyz dat juz bout sounds loik yuz tink dat we gotz nuff dakka?!? Der ain't no ach ting as nuff DAKKA!!!!!

[Seto Kaiba]

Boyz dat juz bout sounds loik yuz tink dat we gotz nuff dakka?!? Der ain't no ach ting as nuff DAKKA!!!!!

I doubt "Make it Orky" is part of the average VF's design plan...

(Well, unless we're talking the VF-X3 Medusa or SDP-1 Stampede Valkyrie... they both look like they're cobbled together from whatever was laying around, and the former actually was...)

[Ghostbear0]

Ehh the 25 armor pack comes pretty close to.

[trojan_gambit]

I remember during Frontiers last episode , Alto use Armor pack while wielding standard gunpod and Michel's sniper rifle

[Master Dex]

I remember during Frontiers last episode , Alto use Armor pack while wielding standard gunpod and Michel's sniper rifle

But he wasn't equipped with the sniper rifle, Klan threw it to him during the fight.

[JB0]

But he wasn't equipped with the sniper rifle, Klan threw it to him during the fight.

But after he picked it up, he WAS equipped with it!

[Ghostbear0]

The 31 feels under gunned. It's not. It's forearm guns are basicly gunpods and it has that big old beam cannon, and it doesn't have terrible missile capacity. We just haven't got to see them get to cut loose. They've always been pitted against people they were trying to save or elites in purpose built dogfighters.

[Seto Kaiba]

Ehh the 25 armor pack comes pretty close to.

Maybe... though the normal VF emphasis on speed and evasion is more Dark Eldar territory. Perhaps that's why I like them so much...

The 31 feels under gunned. It's not. It's forearm guns are basicly gunpods and it has that big old beam cannon, and it doesn't have terrible missile capacity. We just haven't got to see them get to cut loose. They've always been pitted against people they were trying to save or elites in purpose built dogfighters.

Now, whether the VF-31's forearm guns are actually in the same firepower tier as a proper gunpod isn't clear. The caliber of ammo they take (27mm on the military model, 25mm on the Xaos custom) is below what the nominal minimum gunpod caliber is (30mm), though since E_k still equals 0.5MV² they could compensate with additional muzzle velocity...

Your main point is bang-on correct though. The VF-31 may seem somewhat under-armed, but its weapons are actually pretty typical for a 5th Generation VF. It's got a gunpod, a pair of fixed-forward rapid fire cannons for fighter mode, coaxial guns on the monitor turret, and a fair amount of missile capacity. It's got less versatility in missile options than the VF-25, but the VF-25 kind of dominates in that respect by design with twice the number of pylons as any other 5th Generation VF.

I remember during Frontiers last episode , Alto use Armor pack while wielding standard gunpod and Michel's sniper rifle

Yeah, but he had to stay in GERWALK mode or ditch one because he didn't have anywhere to put two.

[JB0]

Yeah, but he had to stay in GERWALK mode or ditch one because he didn't have anywhere to put two.

Kinda like a VF-1 being equipped with the GBP as long as it stays in battroid?

[Seto Kaiba]

Kinda like a VF-1 being equipped with the GBP as long as it stays in battroid?

Depends on how official you want to be there... Variable Fighter Master File has shown the GBP-1S-equipped VF-1 Valkyrie with three gunpods. One mounted to each forearm, and one handheld.

(It's in the Operation Bullseye portion of the second VF-1 volume.)

[JB0]

Depends on how official you want to be there... Variable Fighter Master File has shown the GBP-1S-equipped VF-1 Valkyrie with three gunpods. One mounted to each forearm, and one handheld.

(It's in the Operation Bullseye portion of the second VF-1 volume.)

That sounds amazing!

I just meant that only being available if you don't transform doesn't really negate it being equippable.

I readily admit that dual gunpod was not an official equipment package for the VF-25.

[Aries Turner]

Those VF-31 hardpoints were indeed reinforced for heavy loads and multiple racks.

Sorry for the lack of enthusiasm: just stating it somewhere.

That also means VF-31A Kairos may be pretty capable of equipping four RMS heavies.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Seto Kaiba]

Those VF-31 hardpoints were indeed reinforced for heavy loads and multiple racks.

Sorry for the lack of enthusiasm: just stating it somewhere.

That also means VF-31A Kairos may be pretty capable of equipping four RMS heavies.

All things considered, I'd have been floored if they weren't... even the VF-1 could do that.

(I still suspect the VF-31A Kairos is supposed to have four hardpoints, though I've noticed the printed stats ignore the existence of the hardpoints altogether but consistently say the Kairos has missile containers where the Siegfried Custom has multidrone racks.)

[trojan_gambit]

Based on how the Booster units are mounted, I suspect the base of the rudders are actually hardpoints too.

[Sildani]

Yes, that's been discussed before. Dunno how well it'll work on the DX toy though.

[Seto Kaiba]

Based on how the Booster units are mounted, I suspect the base of the rudders are actually hardpoints too.

Main Boosters.jpg

I doubt it, since that's also where the wing folds for high speed maneuver mode... but if so it'd give the VF-31 an advantage over the VF-25 in terms of total ordinance capacity.

[Aries Turner]

I think it is simply the mounting point for the super pack. All images of that have the rudders folded below and the super pack apparently attached to thin air. So maybe it is in fact attached to the rudders hinge. A reinforced hinge at that.

VF-1 was king in the category, with as much as four pylons per wing in later blocks (but only in the Master Files), up to 6 RMS in some of Tenjin Hidetaka illustrations.

The mounting point in the wingtips is better achieved in the SV-262, with those 'Ghost's Lil'Draken attached to the SV-262 'mothership' and taking double duty as a 'Tornado' pack of sorts. That was a pretty clever idea, although Cygnus drones may actually be better. Lack of weaponry notwithstanding, slamming at high speed against a pinpoint barrier can't be healthy (maybe not: don't seem supersonic capable).

Edited September 29, 2016 by Aries Turner

[Product9]

Yeah, but he had to stay in GERWALK mode or ditch one because he didn't have anywhere to put two.

Actually, Alto was able to carry both gunpods in fighter. The sniper rifle was just sort of stuck on there.

I actually came here to ask a question: given the Tornado Pack and the advent the Sv-262's drones, do you guys think the trend toward multiple engines that can be rotated around is going to stick? Also, can the YF-29 do that? I can't remember but I don't think it can.

Full disclosure, this was mostly an excuse to post this analysis GIF of the Tornado Pack that I made while keeping the topic on Delta.

Edited September 29, 2016 by Product9

[Aries Turner]

can the YF-29 do that [rotate engines]?

Yeah, external engines and attached winglet do rotate in some of the YF-29 aerobatics.

[Product9]

But can they rotate to face forward like the Tornado Pack?