Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[RedWolf]

How, exactly, are these pure Zentradi forces integrated into NUNS/Galactic civilization? I haven't ever really understood how the organization works with separate Zent forces.

It's possible that this group and Zents, operating toward the fringe of the galaxy, just isn't that well equipped. They've need to make due.

The way the 30th Anniversary was depicted in Macross Plus strikes me Zentradi forces as a separate service from regular United Forces.

We saw from Macross 2012 Flashback Zentradi ships as escort to Megaroad 1. Remember only a few Zentradi ships came out alive in Space War 1, about a hundred ships from more than a thousand on the Macross side.

2000 Zentradi hulls crashed on Earth according to Macross Chronicle.

We saw in Macross Frontier the 33rd Marines on Gaul 4, NUNS considers them potential troublemakers exiled away from civilization. On 2030 the Second Defensive Battle of Macross City made wary of giant Zentradi that all Zentradi on Earth's surface are to be Miclones.

This had some extreme effects. Anti-Earth Zentradi left Earth on solo emigration ships nver to be heard from again. Pro-Earth Zentradi extremists believing all Zentradi should go miclone and follow Earth's culture.

Then there are those like Macross Frontier and Al-Shahal that have Zentradi Marines among their forces.

Alternatively, there's still a substantial number of un-cultured Zent out there? The galaxy is huge, it's only been 50 some years. These guys might be "fresh" they would have old equipment and get it upgraded as they get assimilated.

NUNS would be nuts to not have some kind of Zentradi assimilation protocol for when they bump into a new group.

Of course there are. Earth only cultured a small fraction of 8 million Zentradi in Space War 1. And there is over a thousand of Zentradi Main fleets out there. If we go by Macross 7 Encore unaired episode set in 2045-46 Earth has given up on culturing Lost Zentradi thinking Minmay was a lucky fluke. Then Basara happened taming an entire Meltrandi fleet which led to a treaty with them. 3 million Zentradi ships escaped Sol upon the destruction of Boddole Zer. Chlore fleet wasn't part of the attack on Earth but was under the chain of command of the 118th Boddole Zer Main Fleet.

Edited January 14, 2016 by RedWolf

[Seto Kaiba]

How, exactly, are these pure Zentradi forces integrated into NUNS/Galactic civilization? I haven't ever really understood how the organization works with separate Zent forces.

I don't believe we've really had a very detailed explanation of their role in the New UN Forces, honestly...

What we can surmise from their equipment and designation is that they're a dedicated all-Zentradi unit in the NUNS Marine Corps, which may be using segregated units like that to either help Zentradi soldiers acclimate to culture more gracefully or as a way that they can ring-fence and provide for Zentradi who are unable (or unwilling) to adapt to civilian life like the 33rd Marines.

(This would not be the first time in Macross that the UN Forces provided that kind of environment... in Macross II's timeline, there were even dedicated models of VF built for units like that.)

It's possible that this group and Zents, operating toward the fringe of the galaxy, just isn't that well equipped. They've need to make due.

Alternatively, there's still a substantial number of un-cultured Zent out there? The galaxy is huge, it's only been 50 some years. These guys might be "fresh" they would have old equipment and get it upgraded as they get assimilated.

NUNS would be nuts to not have some kind of Zentradi assimilation protocol for when they bump into a new group.

Well, sort of...

The UN Forces did absorb units of Zentradi defectors in the aftermath of the First Space War, but they had some problems keeping certain Zentradi mecha operating in sufficient quantities due to the availability of parts and so on. The Queadluun-Rhea battle suit's one unit that came about as a result of problems maintaining their fleet of secondhand Queadluun-Raus, designed with some major improvements to pilot survivability (because the UN Gov't doesn't regard them as expendable). Since we see a Queadluun-Rhea in the 10th's forces, I doubt they're using antiquated machinery. I suspect the Type-104 Regult and other new designs are the results of attempts to improve the survivability of the Regult and Glaug to a level the NUNS considers acceptable. The kitbashed Regult-Rau hybrid may be an effort to create a more economical or ground operations-friendly Queadluun alternative. Probably from the period around 2040, when the Q-Rhea first came out.

What I suspect is up with the 10th Assault Battalion in Macross Delta is that they're a garrison force like the 33rd, though since they ended up on a fairly populous planet I suspect they're probably a unit of "I feel more comfortable in uniform" types rather than that sort of willful malcontent the 33rd was a dumping ground for. They seem to be an awfully laid-back and peaceable bunch before outside intervention drives them berserk.

There are still a couple thousand main fleets kicking around the galaxy... so there's no shortage of Zentradi yet to encounter human culture.

[sketchley]

The way the 30th Anniversary was depicted in Macross Plus strikes me Zentradi forces as a separate service from regular United Forces.

Interesting. I've always interpreted that depiction to being akin to the WWII allies at Remembrance Day ceremonies, wearing their historical military colours. Never really thought about it in the context of what little is presented in concurrent and subsequent Macross stories.

Due to Kawamori san's interpretation of the Macross official setting (each series is true, like a WWII reenactment is true), I think the most relevant context would be how they appear in Macross 7 (being that it was created in the same time period as M+). And in that series, we got an all-Zentraadi fleet (civilian and military).

So... I wish Kawamori-san would fill-in a bit more of the 'great blank period' between DYRL and M+... (the games have done an admirable job, but a lot of things come up short).

Edited January 15, 2016 by sketchley

[JB0]

Alternatively, there's still a substantial number of un-cultured Zent out there? The galaxy is huge, it's only been 50 some years. These guys might be "fresh" they would have old equipment and get it upgraded as they get assimilated.

NUNS would be nuts to not have some kind of Zentradi assimilation protocol for when they bump into a new group.

According to Fleet of the Strongest Women, the protocol is "if you find a zentradi fleet out there, pick a fight with it and kill every last one of them".

It was a bad policy in general, a worse policy for a colony fleet with a large civilian population, it went over like a lead balloon with the crew, and one can only hope the rules have changed since Basara's time.

[seti88]

Interesting. I've always interpreted that depiction to being akin to the WWII allies at Remembrance Day ceremonies, wearing their historical military colours. Never really thought about it in the context of what little is presented in concurrent and subsequent Macross stories.

Due to Kawamori san's interpretation of the Macross official setting (each series is true, like a WWII reenactment is true), I think the most relevant context would be how they appear in Macross 7 (being that it was created in the same time period as M+). And in that series, we got an all-Zentraadi fleet (civilian and military).

So... I wish Kawamori-san would fill-in a bit more of the 'great blank period' between DYRL and M+... (the games have done an admirable job, but a lot of things come up short).

+1 on the fill-in...thats one of the way to keep the series going based on the original premises...gundam has thunderbolt going for it now...

in fact i would mind watching a backstory involving the VF-11's in a more prominent role

[Zinjo]

The UN Forces did absorb units of Zentradi defectors in the aftermath of the First Space War, but they had some problems keeping certain Zentradi mecha operating in sufficient quantities due to the availability of parts and so on. The Queadluun-Rhea battle suit's one unit that came about as a result of problems maintaining their fleet of secondhand Queadluun-Raus, designed with some major improvements to pilot survivability (because the UN Gov't doesn't regard them as expendable). Since we see a Queadluun-Rhea in the 10th's forces, I doubt they're using antiquated machinery. I suspect the Type-104 Regult and other new designs are the results of attempts to improve the survivability of the Regult and Glaug to a level the NUNS considers acceptable. The kitbashed Regult-Rau hybrid may be an effort to create a more economical or ground operations-friendly Queadluun alternative. Probably from the period around 2040, when the Q-Rhea first came out.

My first impression of the Regult-Rhea, after I got over the "How Cool!" reaction, was more along the lines of cannibalizing two incomplete units to make a one. There were not enough parts to make up either complete unit, but they had parts to build a hybrid, so they did. Perhaps they ran across a cache of spare parts for each type but there was not enough to build a full unit so the Regult-Rhea was the result. Either way, it is a cool new unit, utilizing existing parts!

The clever part, from a production perspective, is they created new Zentradi units without having to ask Miyataki to create new designs.

Edited January 15, 2016 by Zinjo

[Primus1X]

VF-31 Siegfried vs SV-262 Draken III, another pair of names suited for rivals, like VF-25F Messiah vs VF-27γ Lucifer.

The fact that "Valkyrie" is already widely used in Macross makes the Wagner references more fitting. I wonder if we see more. Not the first time his works have been referenced in mecha anime.

[Kelsain]

Can we get a destroid called Niebelung?

[Lorindor]

^ Only that the name Draken refers to "flygande drake", meaning kite. If it is meant as a Wagner reference, they got it wrong.

[jenius]

^ Only that the name Draken refers to "flygande drake", meaning kite. If it is meant as a Wagner reference, they got it wrong.

Negative. You're using German instead of Swedish.

EDIT "WTF, why Swedish for a German opera?" Because the Draken is a Saab jet.

EDIT II "Well then they should have used the Swedish pronunciation of Siegfried!" I think it's the same... or touche'.

Edited January 19, 2016 by jenius

[Scyla]

I wonder if the naming has any impact on the story. Maybe the VF-31 Siegfrieds kill the Drakens, bath in their servo fluid (i.e. blood), become invulnerable, find the treasure, go on merry adventures, marry some giant women but then get betrayed but the higher-ups and allies who know their weak spot through intrigues...

...or maybe the names just sound cool to Japanese people.

[Lorindor]

I'm not so sure what your stance is after that, Jenius.

[Seto Kaiba]

Can we get a destroid called Niebelung?

We already had a "Nothung"¹, which was Siegfried's sword in Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen... though that was a Valkyrie, not a Destroid.

I wonder if the naming has any impact on the story. Maybe the VF-31 Siegfrieds kill the Drakens, bath in their servo fluid (i.e. blood), become invulnerable, find the treasure, go on merry adventures, marry some giant women but then get betrayed but the higher-ups and allies who know their weak spot through intrigues...

...or maybe the names just sound cool to Japanese people.

Dunno... between Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and Macross Delta it seems like Kawamori's coming at us with a lot of Norse mythological references.

Macross 30 was set on Uroboros, the plot and placenames of which were absolutely rife with Norse references for Protoculture-related ruins and caves. (Many of the regular military bases taken over by bandits have Greek names.)

Factions

• Gefion - SMS Uroboros' headquarters, named for the Norse goddess of foreknowledge (appropriate considering all its visitors are from the past).
• Havamal - 815th Independent Special Command, named for a collection of poems relating to Odin's exploits and advice for living, conduct, and wisdom.

Yuria Archipelago (places)

• Mimir (cave) - named for a Norse god who was beheaded, and whose severed head whispers advice and secrets to Odin. (appropriately, this is the location where Leon trains to qualify for his Hunter's License.)
• Raratoskr (cave) - named for a Norse mythical beast, a squirrel who runs up and down the world tree (Yggdrasil) to deliver messages between Nidhoggr and the unnamed eagle. (There is a massive tree on the island where this cave is.)
• Baleyrg (ruins) - one of Odin's (200+) pseudonyms/titles, meaning "Firey-eyed".
• Volundr (cave) - named for a legendary master blacksmith in Norse mythology, who forged the sword Sigurd/Siegfried uses to slay the dragon Fafnir. (This sword is Gram, also known variously as Balmung or Nothung.)
• Niddhog (cave) - named for the dragon who gnaws at the root of the world tree Yggdrasil, who chews the corpses of oath-breakers and other contemptible criminals.
• Vafudr (ruins) - named for another of Odin's titles, meaning "Wanderer". (This is where the first of the time-lost singers' song energy is collected.)

Sierra Desert (places)

• Heithrun (cave): named for the Norse mythical beast (a goat) who produces mead for the einherjar. (IIRC this is where Mina finds the cure for Sheryl's illness.)
• Sanngetalll (ruins): another of Odin's names, meaning "Finder of Truth".
• Alv (cave): named for the Elves of Norse mythology.
• Thrudheim (fortress): headquarters of Havamal, meaning "World of Strength" and named for the home of Thor.
• Dverger (cave): named for the Dwarves of Norse mythology.
• Helblindi (ruins): named for one of Loki's brothers,
• Alfathr (ruins): another of Odin's names, meaning "Father of All".
• Grotti (cave): named for a magical millstone in Norse mythology that could create wealth (and soldiers).

Madis Glacier (places):

• Gladsheim: Havamal's last fortress, where the superweapon they've been trying to unlock is, named for the realm in Asgard where Odin's hall of Valhalla is.
• Skuld (city): named for a Norn (a diety that controls the destiny of gods and men) in Norse mythology, the name means "Debt" or "Future".
• ... still workin' on this map's origins.

All told, my money's on the VF-31 and Sv-262's names being more than just something they thought sound cool... there have been entirely too many plot-significant Norse mythological references already.

My money is on the Aerial Knights being in the role of Fafnir from Norse mythology and/or the Ring Cycle. They killed someone to seize a cursed treasure (technology?) from the gods (Protoculture?) and then became a dragon (Draken!) to protect that treasure with an eventual ambition to overthrow the gods (Protoculture) before being slain by Siegfried (Delta Platoon). We even have a Freyja being forced into an arranged marriage at the outset... this works a little TOO well.

1. Specifically, that was a modified VF-19EF Caliburn that was being used as a technology evaluation and demonstration airframe in the development of the VF-25 Messiah. It was designated VF-19ACTIVE, and flown by Chelsea Scarlett in Macross the Ride prior to her mid-story upgrade to a YF-25 Prophecy.

[Falconkpd]

Fun Fact: Siegfried wastes Dragons in the Norse/German legend.

[Mommar]

We already had a "Nothung"¹, which was Siegfried's sword in Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen... though that was a Valkyrie, not a Destroid.

Dunno... between Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and Macross Delta it seems like Kawamori's coming at us with a lot of Norse mythological references.

Macross 30 was set on Uroboros, the plot and placenames of which were absolutely rife with Norse references for Protoculture-related ruins and caves. (Many of the regular military bases taken over by bandits have Greek names.)

Factions

• Gefion - SMS Uroboros' headquarters, named for the Norse goddess of foreknowledge (appropriate considering all its visitors are from the past).
• Havamal - 815th Independent Special Command, named for a collection of poems relating to Odin's exploits and advice for living, conduct, and wisdom.

Yuria Archipelago (places)

• Mimir (cave) - named for a Norse god who was beheaded, and whose severed head whispers advice and secrets to Odin. (appropriately, this is the location where Leon trains to qualify for his Hunter's License.)
• Raratoskr (cave) - named for a Norse mythical beast, a squirrel who runs up and down the world tree (Yggdrasil) to deliver messages between Nidhoggr and the unnamed eagle. (There is a massive tree on the island where this cave is.)
• Baleyrg (ruins) - one of Odin's (200+) pseudonyms/titles, meaning "Firey-eyed".
• Volundr (cave) - named for a legendary master blacksmith in Norse mythology, who forged the sword Sigurd/Siegfried uses to slay the dragon Fafnir. (This sword is Gram, also known variously as Balmung or Nothung.)
• Niddhog (cave) - named for the dragon who gnaws at the root of the world tree Yggdrasil, who chews the corpses of oath-breakers and other contemptible criminals.
• Vafudr (ruins) - named for another of Odin's titles, meaning "Wanderer". (This is where the first of the time-lost singers' song energy is collected.)

Sierra Desert (places)

• Heithrun (cave): named for the Norse mythical beast (a goat) who produces mead for the einherjar. (IIRC this is where Mina finds the cure for Sheryl's illness.)
• Sanngetalll (ruins): another of Odin's names, meaning "Finder of Truth".
• Alv (cave): named for the Elves of Norse mythology.
• Thrudheim (fortress): headquarters of Havamal, meaning "World of Strength" and named for the home of Thor.
• Dverger (cave): named for the Dwarves of Norse mythology.
• Helblindi (ruins): named for one of Loki's brothers,
• Alfathr (ruins): another of Odin's names, meaning "Father of All".
• Grotti (cave): named for a magical millstone in Norse mythology that could create wealth (and soldiers).

Madis Glacier (places):

• Gladsheim: Havamal's last fortress, where the superweapon they've been trying to unlock is, named for the realm in Asgard where Odin's hall of Valhalla is.
• Skuld (city): named for a Norn (a diety that controls the destiny of gods and men) in Norse mythology, the name means "Debt" or "Future".
• ... still workin' on this map's origins.

All told, my money's on the VF-31 and Sv-262's names being more than just something they thought sound cool... there have been entirely too many plot-significant Norse mythological references already.

My money is on the Aerial Knights being in the role of Fafnir from Norse mythology and/or the Ring Cycle. They killed someone to seize a cursed treasure (technology?) from the gods (Protoculture?) and then became a dragon (Draken!) to protect that treasure with an eventual ambition to overthrow the gods (Protoculture) before being slain by Siegfried (Delta Platoon). We even have a Freyja being forced into an arranged marriage at the outset... this works a little TOO well.

1. Specifically, that was a modified VF-19EF Caliburn that was being used as a technology evaluation and demonstration airframe in the development of the VF-25 Messiah. It was designated VF-19ACTIVE, and flown by Chelsea Scarlett in Macross the Ride prior to her mid-story upgrade to a YF-25 Prophecy.

I'm liking everything I'm reading here.

[Mr March]

We already had a "Nothung"¹, which was Siegfried's sword in Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen... though that was a Valkyrie, not a Destroid.

All told, my money's on the VF-31 and Sv-262's names being more than just something they thought sound cool... there have been entirely too many plot-significant Norse mythological references already.

My money is on the Aerial Knights being in the role of Fafnir from Norse mythology and/or the Ring Cycle. They killed someone to seize a cursed treasure (technology?) from the gods (Protoculture?) and then became a dragon (Draken!) to protect that treasure with an eventual ambition to overthrow the gods (Protoculture) before being slain by Siegfried (Delta Platoon). We even have a Freyja being forced into an arranged marriage at the outset... this works a little TOO well.

I knew the sword name, although I also recall it had many different names. But I really like your reading on Delta so far, especially given how Kawamori has so often in the past borrowed heavily from a piece of fiction or mythology to inform the whole story he tells.

[RedWolf]

My money is on the Aerial Knights being in the role of Fafnir from Norse mythology and/or the Ring Cycle. They killed someone to seize a cursed treasure (technology?) from the gods (Protoculture?) and then became a dragon (Draken!) to protect that treasure with an eventual ambition to overthrow the gods (Protoculture) before being slain by Siegfried (Delta Platoon). We even have a Freyja being forced into an arranged marriage at the outset... this works a little TOO well.

Likely the Uplift went bad. I'm guessing the Kingdom of Wind had a revolution or coup and now they are anti-NUN. Which the fire in Freyja's flashback was all about.

[sketchley]

Dunno... between Macross 30: Voices Across the Galaxy and Macross Delta it seems like Kawamori's coming at us with a lot of Norse mythological references.

I can't say about Macross Delta, but Macross 30 was written by Kodachi Ukyou. A lot of the mythological references in MtR and M30 are due to him.

A few months ago I asked the question if Mr. Ukyou was also involved with Delta, but so far I haven't got an answer on that (if so, it would explain a lot of the references).

Edited January 20, 2016 by sketchley

[Gubaba]

I can't say about Macross Delta, but Macross 30 was written by Kodachi Ukyou. A lot of the mythological references in MtR and M30 are due to him.

A few months ago I asked the question if Mr. Ukyou was also involved with Delta, but so far I haven't got an answer on that (if so, it would explain a lot of the references).

He's in the credits, with the position of 文芸. No idea what that would entail, however... Continuity, maybe?

[sketchley]

He's in the credits, with the position of 文芸. No idea what that would entail, however... Continuity, maybe?

image.jpeg

Interesting.

Alas, one question answered, a new one forms (what does the "literature" position entail...).

[Sildani]

Seeing as the Macross canon covers thousands of pages of reference material over 30 years, "literature" could refer to an archivist's/researcher's position.

[Gubaba]

Seeing as the Macross canon covers thousands of pages of reference material over 30 years, "literature" could refer to an archivist's/researcher's position.

That's what I meant by "continuity," yeah.

If anything, his Frontier novelizations show that he really knows Macross backwards and forwards.

[RedWolf]

I know we've seen a Zentradi garrison with all the new Glaug and Regults but I'm wondering if we'll ever see a Meltrandi one.

Sporting variable suits such as the VBP-1/VA-110 Neo Glaug and a production version of the Queadluun Alma.

[DARKWIND]

Liked it, can't wait to see more!

[calubin_175]

Bandai is releasing their Macross Delta Mecha Colle line starting with the VF-31J and VF-171(Remote Region use standard type). They are hinting that the VF-171 will have armament variants released in the future.

[Sildani]

Nifty. Where'd you read that?

[wmkjr]

The MacrossWorld Facebook page has the info.

[kajnrig]

Mecha Colle is...? Google's giving me the impression of gashopon-esque model kits??? I'm seeing lots of Yamato 2199.

Edited January 24, 2016 by kajnrig

[Saruta]

I'm liking everything I'm reading here.

Me too - it took so many years but the meaning of the word Valkyrie is finally getting expanded upon. I think this started at the end of Wings of Goodbye, though at the time I somewhat disliked the lack of a *musical* Wagner reference to match the lyrics reference... one might well turn up in Delta, though obviously not so far.

[RedWolf]

Since we got updated versions of the Glaug and Regult I wonder if we'll get one for the Nousjadeul-Ger. The last time we saw one was the Macross Plus OVA.

Edited January 28, 2016 by RedWolf

[Andras]

Were those minimissile packs on the Regult's shoulders? (that look like QRau pods)

-eta- the regular Regult, not the one with all the missiles on top.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Andras

[IXTL]

[IXTL]

VF-31A variant with new wings revealed.

We also have the variant types of the main cast.

Delta-05 (Hayate) - VF-31J

Delta-01 (Arad) - VF-31S

Delta-02 Messer) - VF-31F

Delta-03 (Chuck) - VF-31E

Delta-04 (Mirage) - VF-31C

Edited February 7, 2016 by IXTL

[Tochiro]

[kajnrig]

Cannon fodder looks better than the hero mechs...