Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[SebastianP]

Doing my screencap pass right now, checking over the whole episode more or less frame by frame for interesting bits of mechanical detail.

Got to the scene around 12:59 where one of the Siegfrieds fire missiles at Keith, and decided, why not count how many frames between shots, because there were more than six missiles fired.

Results are kind of weird, the first launcher to pop out a second missile does so six frames after the first, the last one to do so does it after twelve. Note that it has nothing to do with the relative positions of the launchers, as the L3 launcher fired again after six frames, and the R3 fired again after twelve. (those are the inboard launchers, so they're basically mirrored.

Averaging it out says that the missile ports can fire 3 rounds per second, so a one second salvo with the missile launchers would be 18 missiles. Maybe not the most useful information unless you're doing RPG stats though.

[Seto Kaiba]

This has been bothering me since seeing Keith active a fold factor on his Draken. Do the Draken III's actually have a fold crystal system integrated? The glow effect we've seen during Keith and Messer's last duel is the save we've seen on the YF-29 and Hayate's VF-31 when he's syncing with Freya's song.

We don't know yet. It's certainly possible that the Draken III has a fold wave system similar to the VF-31 Siegfried and YF-29's, or in Keith's case it may simply be a case of him using his runes to apparently slow down his perception of time as Hayate and Messer were apparently able to do with the aid of fold song and Var syndrome respectively.

[kalvasflam]

Actually, you could see the fold effect on all of the Drakens when Heinz starts singing. Honestly, I still don't get what a fold wave system on a Valk is supposed to do. I just want to chalk it up to magic skill booster right now, because that's how it affects Hayate, but not Mirage or Chuck.

[Seto Kaiba]

Actually, you could see the fold effect on all of the Drakens when Heinz starts singing. Honestly, I still don't get what a fold wave system on a Valk is supposed to do. I just want to chalk it up to magic skill booster right now, because that's how it affects Hayate, but not Mirage or Chuck.

Think of the fold wave system as a turbocharger for systems that use super dimension physics in their operation and you won't be far from the truth.

It's also kind of a supplementary power system, since in addition to jacking up the power of the thermonuclear reaction turbine engines it also lets the fighter draw energy directly from super dimension space the way the Vajra do, so it can run energy-intensive systems like energy conversion armor at full power even in fighter mode.

I think the effect that we see Hayate pull off, where his piloting gets magically better when he's synchronized with Freyja, is a quasi-unrelated bonus... his abilities are being boosted via his fold receptor factor, the way Var syndrome apparently does to normal people.

I'm still not sure that the Draken III actually has a fold wave system, it could just as easily be that the Knights are receiving a boost from the song of the wind the same way Hayate is from Freyja's songs...

[azrael]

I'm still not sure that the Draken III actually has a fold wave system, it could just as easily be that the Knights are receiving a boost from the song of the wind the same way Hayate is from Freyja's songs...

I'd take a decent wager that the Drakens lacks a fold wave system, ISC and some of the creature comforts from the YF-24-family. If the newest plane you flew was a VF-171, a VF-19, or a VF-22, chances are you'll feel at home with a Sv-262. Windermere physiology can probably handle the Gs so they don't need ISC. Windermeran runes likely make them very receptive to their environments and the people around them so that would mean each pilot already has some kind of a fold-wave system they are born with.

[Master Dex]

I'd take a decent wager that the Drakens lacks a fold wave system, ISC and some of the creature comforts from the YF-24-family. If the newest plane you flew was a VF-171, a VF-19, or a VF-22, chances are you'll feel at home with a Sv-262. Windermere physiology can probably handle the Gs so they don't need ISC. Windermeran runes likely make them very receptive to their environments and the people around them so that would mean each pilot already has some kind of a fold-wave system they are born with.

This makes sense to me, and also I feel fits with the Draken's origins. It is less likely that the Anti-UN types that helped create it (and I'm guessing Epsilon Foundation are directly related to those people) had in depth documentation on Fold Wave systems, which were previously only on the YF-29 developed by Frontier Shinsei/LAI (or the FDRS from the YF-30, which was a particularly unique example and not at all corporate as far as I know, past that SMS Oroborous owns it).

As for ISC, I agree the Windermerians might not need a full ISC, but the Draken III could have an IVC instead of simply nothing as well. That being said, that system is likely easier to get design data on.

[RedWolf]

I'd take a decent wager that the Drakens lacks a fold wave system, ISC and some of the creature comforts from the YF-24-family. If the newest plane you flew was a VF-171, a VF-19, or a VF-22, chances are you'll feel at home with a Sv-262. Windermere physiology can probably handle the Gs so they don't need ISC. Windermeran runes likely make them very receptive to their environments and the people around them so that would mean each pilot already has some kind of a fold-wave system they are born with.

Fold Wave System effect of power systems though is similar to Super Dimension Organs of Protodevlin. We've seen the Fold Wave System visual effect on Ai-Kun in the Frontier TV series.

[Sir Galahad®]

Are there any differences between the fold waves generated by Ketchup Boy and Walkure? I mean if it is windermere biology, doesn't that mean that Freyja's singing can cause the Var Syndrome? Or is it solely on the device used by Heinz that cause the Var syndrome when he sings?

[Master Dex]

Are there any differences between the fold waves generated by Ketchup Boy and Walkure? I mean if it is windermere biology, doesn't that mean that Freyja's singing can cause the Var Syndrome? Or is it solely on the device used by Heinz that cause the Var syndrome when he sings?

It's his type of song combined with the seidzonal (sp?) in people's bodies from the ruin water and Windermerian apple combo. Song's fold waves trigger the chemical to cause Var, and how Heinz sings can apparently be used to ensure control. Freyja likely could use that amplifier to free everyone if she had it.

[RedWolf]

Are there any differences between the fold waves generated by Ketchup Boy and Walkure? I mean if it is windermere biology, doesn't that mean that Freyja's singing can cause the Var Syndrome? Or is it solely on the device used by Heinz that cause the Var syndrome when he sings?

Likely.

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRtechnology/12aSongEnergy.php

Extra Report: The Protodevilun And Song Energy

Even though the Protodevilun, who treated Spiritia as "food", ought to have liked Song Energy because the origin of both Song Energy and Spiritia is the Sub-Universe, they suffered damage from the songs of Nekki Basara. This is because the Protodevilun absorbed "negative" spiritia that was amplified by fear, and couldn't receive the "positive" of Basara's songs.

http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.org/MCRworldguide/02ABirdman.php

The Abilities And Maintenance Systems Of The "Birdman"

The Birdman has abilities that stand out, as a semi-organic cyborg that was produced in the golden age of Over Technology. However, operating for an extended period of time was impossible in a state without maintenance. So, it was arranged that the regeneration and activation would be carried out by the "space-time resonance ability" of the primitive Earthlings. Mayan Island was certainly a place where a religious form that centred on the Birdman was adopted, and the family of the head priest, who had powerful "space-time resonance ability", where the "Shrine Maidens".

Mayan Shrine Maidens

Among the majority of Earthlings, who lost their space-time resonance abilities due to gene manipulation, they are from a family in which the space-time resonance abilities remained in order to regenerate and activate the Birdman. They have the beliefs of the Protoculture and Birdman at the genetic level. Also, it's said that families with identical abilities exist in various places on the Earth.

Right: Sara Nome

Positive Song Energy which is a type of Fold Wave can bring people from the brink of death. Song Energy regenerative properties which is why the Mayan Shrine Maiden bloodline can maintain and activate the Bird Human. Also the reason why Protodevlin were after Macross 7 fleet as Terrans can be convenient rechargeable batteries. However Heinz is emitting Negative Song Energy that may be detrimental to his health. Negative Song Energy being weaker it is possible to overpower it without Fold Amps as shown by Mikumo and Freyja. Positive Song Energy provided the Protodevlin a perpetual power source once they learned how to sing on their own. Fold Wave Systems like in the YF-29, similar system in the YF-30 and the VF-31 Siegfried Fold Wave System get boosts on performance due to resonance between pilot, machine and singer. Similar to Evil Series Super Dimensional Organs work.

The Windermere royal bloodline it seems is similar to the Nome bloodline. Even the precognitive abilities. They also have the word Mayan in their motto.

From Macross Delta Glossary

Wind of song There hand

One of the tradition handed down to Windermere. Singer of the wind, including the dragon bird by its voice, that it is possible to attend the wind and the earth and the heart. While it is often appears in the royal lineage, rare exceptions exist.

Rudan Jarre Lom-Mayan

Sacred words transmitted from generation to generation in Windermere royal family, meaning "in the name of the true king."

[Graham]

Doing my screencap pass right now, checking over the whole episode more or less frame by frame for interesting bits of mechanical detail.

Got to the scene around 12:59 where one of the Siegfrieds fire missiles at Keith, and decided, why not count how many frames between shots, because there were more than six missiles fired.

Results are kind of weird, the first launcher to pop out a second missile does so six frames after the first, the last one to do so does it after twelve. Note that it has nothing to do with the relative positions of the launchers, as the L3 launcher fired again after six frames, and the R3 fired again after twelve. (those are the inboard launchers, so they're basically mirrored.

Averaging it out says that the missile ports can fire 3 rounds per second, so a one second salvo with the missile launchers would be 18 missiles. Maybe not the most useful information unless you're doing RPG stats though.

Although I've yet to do a scene by scene comparison. Going by memory I suspect that was reused animation from Messer's missile launch scene in episode 10 at 20:03.

I have a feeling that 3 missiles per launcher is probably the maximum capacity, giving 18 missiles in total.

[Seto Kaiba]

Fold Wave Systems like in the YF-29, similar system in the YF-30 and the VF-31 Siegfried Fold Wave System get boosts on performance due to resonance between pilot, machine and singer. Similar to Evil Series Super Dimensional Organs work.

Song energy and spiritia are two different things... you've accidentally conflated them here. Based on one key point raised by Reina early in Macross Delta, the biological fold waves broadcast through fold song may be something different as well.

Spiritia is mental/life energy, which the energy beings known as Protodeviln require to continue existing. It's extremely scarce in the material universe, and thus needs to be harvested from living beings for the Protodeviln to survive. Without spiritia, a person will die, and a person who is dying from a lack of spiritia can be revived by receiving an infusion of spiritia. There is, however, no evidence that an infusion of spiritia can revive someone who is otherwise mortally wounded.

Song energy is, per Macross Chronicle, believed to be a type of fold wave produced by singing that can trigger the regeneration of spiritia in the listener. Basara and other special individuals (anima spiritia) seem to be able to control what the polarity of the song energy and the resultant spiritia are, which proved to be inimical to the Protodeviln. It's noted that the average human produces measurable amounts of song energy (~100 Chiba song units) and that special individuals are able to generate vastly greater amounts (~200,000 Chiba song units was Basara's limit). Macross Chronicle notes that even recordings of those particularly talented individuals, e.g. Lynn Minmay, produce significant amounts of song energy (Minmay's recordings produce about 10,000 Chiba song units).

Fold song is songs that are imbued with a special type of biological fold wave which is apparently different from ordinary song energy and can have rather dramatic effects on living beings. Sara Nome's fold songs were able to influence the growth and regeneration of living things like plans and certain bio-technological systems created by the Protoculture, and the fold songs of Walkure and Prince Heinz Neirich Windermere seem to be able to influence the development and/or activity of the fold bacteria that cause Var syndrome. Reina Prowler noted, for Freyja's benefit, that recorded media does not reproduce the effects of fold song and that a live performance is necessary in order to achieve the effect.

The super dimension organs in the Evil series are, in a way, similar to the fold wave system but not for the reason you specify. They both provide an inexhaustible supply of energy from super dimension space via fold dimensional energy conversion, but the fold wave system and fold dimensional resonance system are intended to do more than that... as, when activated by appropriate fold waves, the systems that use fold physics in their operation are boosted in efficiency.

Freyja's fold song seems to be not only triggering the activation of the fold wave system, but also heightening Hayate's awareness through his own fold receptor factor.

Although I've yet to do a scene by scene comparison. Going by memory I suspect that was reused animation from Messer's missile launch scene in episode 10 at 20:03.

I have a feeling that 3 missiles per launcher is probably the maximum capacity, giving 18 missiles in total.

I doubt it. The VF-31 is one of the biggest airframes to date, and the similarly-sized YF-29 carried dozens of missiles in its legs.

[RedWolf]

Fold song is songs that are imbued with a special type of biological fold wave which is apparently different from ordinary song energy and can have rather dramatic effects on living beings. Sara Nome's fold songs were able to influence the growth and regeneration of living things like plans and certain bio-technological systems created by the Protoculture, and the fold songs of Walkure and Prince Heinz Neirich Windermere seem to be able to influence the development and/or activity of the fold bacteria that cause Var syndrome. Reina Prowler noted, for Freyja's benefit, that recorded media does not reproduce the effects of fold song and that a live performance is necessary in order to achieve the effect.

Basara and Emilia can do the same as seen with plants. What they don't have is the precog ability the Nomes and Windermereans have.

[Seto Kaiba]

Basara and Emilia can do the same as seen with plants. What they don't have is the precog ability the Nomes and Windermereans have.

Drawin' a blank here... when did they do that?

[RedWolf]

Drawin' a blank here... when did they do that?

Macross 7 The Galaxy is Calling Me. A seed that Pedro had which was dormant for thousands of years bloomed after being exposed to Basara and Emilia. In the prologue Chiba was testing Basara's effect on giant Sunflowers till Emilia's Song Energy reached the fleet light years away making the Sunflowers move. Which motivated Basara to find the person it came from, borrowing Chiba's Sound Energy detecting equipment.

[Master Dex]

Macross 7 The Galaxy is Calling Me. A seed that Pedro had which was dormant for thousands of years bloomed after being exposed to Basara and Emilia. In the prologue Chiba was testing Basara's effect on giant Sunflowers till Emilia's Song Energy reached the fleet light years away making the Sunflowers move. Which motivated Basara to find the person it came from, borrowing Chiba's Sound Energy detecting equipment.

More importantly, leading to an epic snowy mountain sing off between Basara and Emilia, which Basara won despite Emilia's size and raw vocal power, lol.

[Graham]

I doubt it. The VF-31 is one of the biggest airframes to date, and the similarly-sized YF-29 carried dozens of missiles in its legs.

I disagree. The micro-missiles carried on the legs of the YF-29 look to be of a much smaller type than those carried by the VF-31. Also the way they are stored is very different. The YF-29's tiny micro-missile are basically stored stacked single layer deep like drinks on a drink tray on the outside of the lower legs, covered by a clamshell hatch cover and designed for mass fire once the clamshell cover opens, with two small ports in each clamshell cover for auxiliary fire without needing to open the clamshell covers (obviously at a mach lower rate of fire, compared to if the clamshell covers are open).

The VF-31 by comparison seems to fire a larger type of micro missile through a larger closed port launching door, which is likely fed from a tube type magazine. Given the guesstimated space taken up by the engine, the internal capacity of these micro-missile launchers is probably fairly small. I estimate based on the visual size of the launching port door and the micro missiles as shown in the anime, this is likely 3, certainly no more than 4 missiles per launcher.

I do wish that Kawamori would definitely state data on the number of internal missiles carried and also on gunpod calibre and magazine capacity for all VFs.

[aurance]

Seto Kaiba. I asked this question in one of the toy threads but I'm curious of your opinion. What do you think is the forward thrust mechanism of the YF-30/VF-31 in Gerwalk modes? Most (all) other Valks seem to have some sort of obvious secondary thruster bank for forward cruise in Gerwalk, but not the -30/-31's.

[Master Dex]

Seto Kaiba. I asked this question in one of the toy threads but I'm curious of your opinion. What do you think is the forward thrust mechanism of the YF-30/VF-31 in Gerwalk modes? Most (all) other Valks seem to have some sort of obvious secondary thruster bank for forward cruise in Gerwalk, but not the -30/-31's.

The 25 didn't have an obvious one either but I recall the backpack thrusters meshed well with the plane body, right where the shield connected. I bet it is similar for these.

[SebastianP]

The 25 didn't have an obvious one either but I recall the backpack thrusters meshed well with the plane body, right where the shield connected. I bet it is similar for these.

The VF-25 had six very tiny thrusters inset in the mating surface with the shield - on the model kits, these like to fall out and I don't know if any of mine has both of theirs at the moment. And of course, the super parts had a medium-sized rocket nozzle as well.

I won't know what the solution they used on the VF-31 is until I get my kit, but I'm thinking there'll be some thruster detail on the interior back plate that is revealed when the modular pod is deployed.

[Seto Kaiba]

Seto Kaiba. I asked this question in one of the toy threads but I'm curious of your opinion. What do you think is the forward thrust mechanism of the YF-30/VF-31 in Gerwalk modes? Most (all) other Valks seem to have some sort of obvious secondary thruster bank for forward cruise in Gerwalk, but not the -30/-31's.

Y'know, I've never bothered to actually transform my DX YF-30 to see if they molded anything like that there. My wager would be that there's probably a cluster of small thrusters hidden on the trailing edge of the fuselage in the portions that are exposed by detaching the arms and ordinance container from the fighter mode.

Either that or they've gone way retro and it's just pushing the engine nozzles back like the Sv-51 did.

[aurance]

Y'know, I've never bothered to actually transform my DX YF-30 to see if they molded anything like that there. My wager would be that there's probably a cluster of small thrusters hidden on the trailing edge of the fuselage in the portions that are exposed by detaching the arms and ordinance container from the fighter mode.

Either that or they've gone way retro and it's just pushing the engine nozzles back like the Sv-51 did.

I have one. There doesn't seem to be anything specifically molded as such, although I suppose there are plenty of nooks and crannies where they theoretically could be. Maybe where the arms or the leg/engine nacelles detached.

What'd you mean about the SV-51?

Edited June 30, 2016 by aurance

[azrael]

Did they ever mold it or something on the VF-25 (both editions)? The problem is, those little thrusters on the VF-25 are really small from a toy perspective and may not have warranted having them on the mold.

[aurance]

Did they ever mold it or something on the VF-25 (both editions)? The problem is, those little thrusters on the VF-25 are really small from a toy perspective and may not have warranted having them on the mold.

Yep, they're on the DX toy, following pretty close to the line art.

[SebastianP]

Did they ever mold it or something on the VF-25 (both editions)? The problem is, those little thrusters on the VF-25 are really small from a toy perspective and may not have warranted having them on the mold.

They're even smaller on the 1/72 kit, you know...

Anyway, both DX toys have them, though the original version had the part with the thrusters molded in the overall unit color, and as engraved detail at that. Really not very visible unless you already know they're there. The Renewal toy looks more like the 1/72 kit, with the thrusters molded in the same color as the inner frame instead of the exterior, and so they stand out enough to be visible.

If Anymoon.com likes hotlinks, then this picture should show the difference:

The YF-29 toy on the other hand does not appear to have any thruster detail in this area, from what I could tell - then again, *it* doesn't really need any mini-thrusters when it has the two big ones on the wings that'll be pointed in the direction of travel anyway...

[Seto Kaiba]

What'd you mean about the SV-51?

The Sv-51 didn't have a sub-engine system to push it forward in GERWALK mode the way that the VF-0 did.

It seemed to get by using by leaning forward enough that the angular thrust of the engines would provide both forward thrust and lift.

[Mommar]

What exactly are you looking for on the YF-30? There is the thought that because the intakes actually disengage from the rest of the hull there would be no way to use any other thrusters without additional engines packed away... well, there really isn't any room on the giant, flat surface leftover.

[Seto Kaiba]

What exactly are you looking for on the YF-30? There is the thought that because the intakes actually disengage from the rest of the hull there would be no way to use any other thrusters without additional engines packed away... well, there really isn't any room on the giant, flat surface leftover.

image.jpeg

We're looking for an area where something analogous to the six little thrusters used by the VF-25 for forward thrust in GERWALK mode as shown on the line art and modeled on the VF-25F Version 2 DX pictured above. On the VF-25, those little thrusters appear to be very much an independent system from the main engines... analogous to the "backpack" rockets on the VF-1 Valkyrie.

[Mommar]

Okay, best guess are those grey colored v-shaped bits just outside the missile box gap.



My only reason why I'd say that is since the 30 is technically atmosphere only (at least in the game) they might actually be using external air to power the forward thrust as well and there are two small slits above the larger intakes just beneath the blue strips on the front of the craft.

A

And if you look at the top of the calf on that first picture you can see where the black bit slots over those grey parts, which would feed right back into the main leg engines in fighter mode.

Edited July 2, 2016 by Mommar

[aurance]

Those grey V areas are my thoughts as well.

[Master Dex]

Hey Seto, since you'd be the guy to know most likely, I have a question I thought up after noticing something in the thread about the VF-31 DX toy.

Is there any detail on if the reaction engines in VFs use any kind of bypass system like most modern jets which use low bypass (where the intake air is split with some going through the main compressor and into the combustion section to heat and turn the tubrine, and air that is routed around to flush back into the exhaust nozzle both to cool the exhaust a bit but also to potentially mix with more fuel in the augmentor/afterburner). My first thought is that bypass air might help overall efficiency, as well as cooling, but then when I really thought about how reaction engines work differently from conventional jet engines... I started to realize that there may not be a point to doing that versus just having a straight turbojet system of compressor, [fusion reactor], turbine, exhaust. (Incidentally, I know most VFs are said to have afterburners too and I am now left wondering how those work since the main engine does not work via combustion).

That came up when discussing the placement of the engines within the legs which is what my post in the toy thread was about. I was noting how the actual turbines were often in the shin area behind the reaction hot section of course (I don't know the properties of the OTECH metals they make those turbines out of, but they must be really heat resistant!) with the blades/inlets we see in the intakes certainly being the forward compressors. That led me thinking about how compressors are linked to turbines since the turbine is turned to create power and to turn the compressor to cycle in more air; as such I always wondered if the forward compressors disconnected from the turbines when the leg bends in mode changes and how it still brings air in. In Battroid though the intake covers close so it probably isn't doing it as much there since the engines are more focused on power generation than thrust, and they don't require intake air for that (bet they switch more into direct plasma thrust too). In Gerwalk though it still moves better than Battroid so I'd assume it is still using some air. Either it brings in some via the kneecap ram-intakes somehow, or more than likely there is some really convoluted system to continue operating the compressor/turbine system with a bending engine.

I suspect that latter thing would be the biggest engineering hurdle to a successful leg engine design in such a machine next to the whole giant robot thing.

[Seto Kaiba]

Hey Seto, since you'd be the guy to know most likely, I have a question I thought up after noticing something in the thread about the VF-31 DX toy.

Is there any detail on if the reaction engines in VFs use any kind of bypass system like most modern jets which use low bypass (where the intake air is split with some going through the main compressor and into the combustion section to heat and turn the tubrine, and air that is routed around to flush back into the exhaust nozzle both to cool the exhaust a bit but also to potentially mix with more fuel in the augmentor/afterburner). My first thought is that bypass air might help overall efficiency, as well as cooling, but then when I really thought about how reaction engines work differently from conventional jet engines... I started to realize that there may not be a point to doing that versus just having a straight turbojet system of compressor, [fusion reactor], turbine, exhaust. (Incidentally, I know most VFs are said to have afterburners too and I am now left wondering how those work since the main engine does not work via combustion).

Actually, that's a really good question... I had to do a fair bit of digging to find an answer.

Most of the diagrams I'm familiar with for thermonuclear reaction engine technology outright ignore the subject of bypass ratios... but after some research, I found two that do not. The diagram of the FF-2001 which appears in the Sky Angels tech manual on page 40 and the diagram of the FF-3001A Stage II thermonuclear reaction turbine engine used on the VF-25 Messiah on pages 58 and 59 of Variable Fighter Master File: VF-25 Messiah show thermonuclear reaction engines as a low-bypass turbofan-style jet engine (with the obvious substitution of a compact thermonuclear reactor for a burner stage).

In both cases, the body of the engine shows a few sets of sub-intakes where air from the low-pressure bypass air can be drawn into the high pressure areas of the turbine and further heated by exposure to the hot exhaust stream. The FF-3001A diagram shows two sets... one in burner stage ahead of the turbine and one in the afterburner stage. It looks like, instead of injecting more "fuel" into the exhaust stream, a reaction engine's afterburner works by injecting more air into the exhaust stream to mix with the already-hot mixture of hot exhaust and plasma. On the VF-25 engine diagram, it does look like the bypass air is picking up a good amount of heat as it passes over the engine, regardless of whether or not it's then introduced into the high-pressure stream... so it does appear to be cooling the engine somewhat.

That came up when discussing the placement of the engines within the legs which is what my post in the toy thread was about. I was noting how the actual turbines were often in the shin area behind the reaction hot section of course (I don't know the properties of the OTECH metals they make those turbines out of, but they must be really heat resistant!) with the blades/inlets we see in the intakes certainly being the forward compressors. That led me thinking about how compressors are linked to turbines since the turbine is turned to create power and to turn the compressor to cycle in more air; as such I always wondered if the forward compressors disconnected from the turbines when the leg bends in mode changes and how it still brings air in. In Battroid though the intake covers close so it probably isn't doing it as much there since the engines are more focused on power generation than thrust, and they don't require intake air for that (bet they switch more into direct plasma thrust too). In Gerwalk though it still moves better than Battroid so I'd assume it is still using some air. Either it brings in some via the kneecap ram-intakes somehow, or more than likely there is some really convoluted system to continue operating the compressor/turbine system with a bending engine.

Yeah, normally the main body of the engine is in the "shin" of the VF's leg... while the hip area contains a precompressor driven by a superconducting motor which is connected to the rest of the engine via a flexible duct that runs inside the VF's knee. The bypass doesn't seem to come into play until you're past the precompressor and into the fan at the leading edge of the turbine engine itself in the lower leg. I would assume that arrangement hasn't changed in later VFs.

The diagram of the FF-2001 engine used by the VF-1 in the Sky Angels book gives the total length of the actual engine (which resides entirely in the lower leg) as just 2.14 meters (just a hair over 7 feet) with a mass of just 1,580kg.

[Mommar]

And here I was hoping the pics I took would have ilicited some new info about the YF-30.

[Seto Kaiba]

And here I was hoping the pics I took would have ilicited some new info about the YF-30.

Really, I got nothin'... info on the YF-30's pretty sparse.

If there are sub-engines there, I would assume they sit in the two black V-shapes on the trailing edge of the wing... and are probably either totally separate from the main engines or are maybe using intake air from the BLCS sub-intakes above the detached-in-GERWALK-mode main intakes. They'd have to be capable of independent operation though, since the YF-30 is as space-capable as any other variable fighter.

[Mommar]

Really, I got nothin'... info on the YF-30's pretty sparse.

If there are sub-engines there, I would assume they sit in the two black V-shapes on the trailing edge of the wing... and are probably either totally separate from the main engines or are maybe using intake air from the BLCS sub-intakes above the detached-in-GERWALK-mode main intakes. They'd have to be capable of independent operation though, since the YF-30 is as space-capable as any other variable fighter.

That's what I came up with too, without any of the terminology or knowledge.