Macross Δ (Delta) Mecha/Technology Thread - READ 1st POST

[Seto Kaiba]

I wish they would have a master file on the warships of Macross universe. I mean we have enough master files for fighters, even obscure ones like VF-4; surely we can come up with something.

The major types so far:

- Original Macross class: Combination carrier/gunship, not a true battle ship in my opinion.

- Battle class: Heavy carrier/gunship combo, again not a true battle ship, but certainly capable of fulfilling that role due to its huge size

- Macross Quarter: The closest analogy I can come up with is a heavy destroyer type ship, capable of going toe to toe with heavy warships, and carries some amount of fighters.

- Macross Elyison: Battleship analogue, with carrier type.

The major difference is that the first two types were not supposed to go into battle directly and were supposed to rely on other ships and carrier air wings, where as the latter two types seem to be more designed for close quarter combat with fighters acting as support.

Would love to see more stuff on the ships.

A couple of the Master File books have already featured warships.

The VF-0 one had the Asuka II-class, the VF-1 Vol.1 book had the Prometheus, VF-19 had the Uraga-class, and the Squadrons book had the SDF-1 Macross herself.

[kalvasflam]

A couple of the Master File books have already featured warships.

The VF-0 one had the Asuka II-class, the VF-1 Vol.1 book had the Prometheus, VF-19 had the Uraga-class, and the Squadrons book had the SDF-1 Macross herself.

true, but none of the main Macross ships, and those were fill in spots. I want one where the war ships are the primary topic of discussion

[Zinjo]

What if the ruins in the Brisingr cluster are intended to do the polar opposite of what King Gramia is using them for? What if the reason the Protoculture apparently died out in the Brisingr cluster is that they also contracted Var syndrome from mixing Windermere apples with the local water supply, and built the now-ruined structures throughout the cluster in an effort to protect the entire cluster from the pandemic? That'd explain why the ruins are apparently perfectly situated to project their effects across the entire cluster, and why there's a race apparently purpose-built for fold song squatting on one of those worlds alongside an ancient fold-capable transport.

You could be on to something there,

except the syndrome isn't due to the mixing of the apples and the "local" water supply, but by water near the PC structures. Whatever tech is being employed, it is affecting the water in the area.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Zinjo

[calubin_175]

VF-31 variants:

J= Area Support fighter
C= Tactical Support fighter
F=Area Control fighter
E=Recon and electronic warfare
S=Commander

[Sir Galahad®]

Since I just read that we were on the topic of warships, don't these carriers look like New Macross Classes like Battle 7 or Battle 13?

My mistake, those were Uraga class ships...

Edited June 20, 2016 by Sir Galahad®

[Zinjo]

Since I just read that we were on the topic of warships, don't these carriers look like New Macross Classes like Battle 7 or Battle 13?

My mistake, those were Uraga class ships...

Look at it this way. All the models created for MF are being used in MD. The skins may be different, but the models are the same. The only new cap ship models for this series are the Macross Elysium and the Segur Valence, so far...

[tout-puissant]

Well, the Windermerean ships are at least heavily modified versions of the ships used by the Macross Galaxy fleet, if not outright new models. Personally, I'd tend towards the latter, just using established silhouettes for the old models. Heck, this week we see a couple apparently used by Chaos, floating around in the far background above the Elysion as the reinforcements arrived - and from what I saw, they were hand-drawn!

Speaking of models, I was looking at the domed colony ship in the Ragnan harbor as Elysion was taking off. I think that it's also hand-drawn, and going by its scale, it's DEFINITELY much smaller than the typical City-esque ship seen in Macross 7. Elysion towers over it, and if she is indeed some 823 meters tall (?), the dome ship can't be more than a kilometer or so long... Now, the model of the dome ship landing on Ragna really looked to me like a re-use of the Island 1 model with a few modifications manually added (namely the city skyline visible within), so while the intend MAY be that this ship and the one that landed were one and the same, visual evidence suggests that they were not.

Back to the Elysion, we *finally* get to see her bridge in all its glory! It's a riff off of the Macross Quarter, without a doubt. However, the heretofore-practically-unseen forward stations are enormous compared to any comparable stations from any other Macross. This suggests to me that Elysion was at least partly designed to have Earnest-sized Zentradi ergomonics in mind. In addition to the giant forward stations (which are elevated above the deck they're sitting on, another change), the stairs leading down to their deck level are much larger than human standard; also the rear door looks like it has a smaller door set within it that can open for human-standard sized people OR larger humanoids. I wonder what the reasoning behind this is; for the most part Zentradi micronized to standard human sizes. Are we seeing some alien accessibility design compromises in play here?

Mark

Edited June 20, 2016 by tout-puissant

[dialNforNinja]

Well back in the M7 days there was an entire Zentreadi-aesthetics version of both the Northampton and New Macross classes, though it's been long enough that I'm not sure if we actually saw them on screen (in the fleet that settled the Varauta system?) or if they only appeared in art books. Of course, with the digitally rendered series' being able to copy and paste instead of having someone draw and paint them all whether the same or different, it's not economical to spend production funds on more ship variants to appear in the background of fleet scenes when the ones they already have will fill the screen just fine.

[tout-puissant]

Agreed. And yes, the M5 fleet designs did all show up, however briefly, as they landed on Rax and in the aftermath that the FB gang explored. It does stand to reason that those ships (and certainly the refitted Nupitet-Vergiwefiwjhszrjh@%&%!! also in the fleet) would have some adaptation for larger-than-average crew, assuming that they were at all common post-micronization.

Still, the shots of the (replacement?) Al-Shahal fleet this week goes to show just how much Satelight is leveraging their investment. Seeing four types of NUNS ships in tight formation like that was awesome.

Whilst re-watching the Elysion launch sequence today (because AWESOME), I just have to recall that there should STILL be no reason for her to be landed in its humanoid mode - so much of the internal infrastructure would have to have the gravity control on 24/7, or otherwise be oriented to be workable (those leg-mounted flight decks for example). I'm guessing that SK simply wanted the visual aesthetic of a giant spaceship robot looming over a city as in SDFM, or else the Ragnan locals had a petition to have Elysion that way, because AWESOME.

Mark

[tout-puissant]

PS - Isn't it great that Elysion would not lift off from its resting place, but instead terrify everyone while flying directly over their city as it maneuvered to the water? I get that they probably wanted to use the ocean as a way to baffle the blast from the engines as she lifted off (much as they do in a real-life rocket launches), but why not go further out to sea instead of bathing every citizen in hot boiling steam in the process? To say nothing of the fish and mercats turned into cooked foodstuffs?

Edited June 20, 2016 by tout-puissant

[Saruta]

PS - Isn't it great that Elysion would not lift off from its resting place, but instead terrify everyone while flying directly over their city as it maneuvered to the water? I get that they probably wanted to use the ocean as a way to baffle the blast from the engines as she lifted off (much as they do in a real-life rocket launches), but why not go further out to sea instead of bathing every citizen in hot boiling steam in the process? To say nothing of the fish and mercats turned into cooked foodstuffs?

I thought it was using the gravity engines at that point, not the rocket engines? Then over the sea the rocket engines kicked in with their own distinctive noise (and animation).

With gravity engines, this move might have been an intentional "parade".

[Seto Kaiba]

VF-31 variants:

J= Area Support fighter[/size]

C= Tactical Support fighter[/size]

F=Area Control fighter[/size]

E=Recon and electronic warfare[/size]

S=Commander[/size]

There was a similar set of specialized variants in the last series too... the VF-25's main variants were split up into:

A: General duty machine

F: Attacker/strengthened offensive capability machine

G: Designated marksman machine

S: Command machine

RVF: ELINT/AWACS machine

Speaking of models, I was looking at the domed colony ship in the Ragnan harbor as Elysion was taking off. I think that it's also hand-drawn, and going by its scale, it's DEFINITELY much smaller than the typical City-esque ship seen in Macross 7. Elysion towers over it, and if she is indeed some 823 meters tall (?), the dome ship can't be more than a kilometer or so long... Now, the model of the dome ship landing on Ragna really looked to me like a re-use of the Island 1 model with a few modifications manually added (namely the city skyline visible within), so while the intend MAY be that this ship and the one that landed were one and the same, visual evidence suggests that they were not.

Well, remember, the pre-Island Cluster domeships were much, MUCH smaller than the Macross Frontier's Island-1. The dome was only a couple hundred meters high, and pretty much every example except the original Macross-1 had buildings poking through the dome. It wasn't until the fifth-generation emigrant ships where you had a dome so large that it peaked at multiple kilometers high.

Based on its design and appearance, it's almost certain that the emigrant ship that discovered Ragna was one of the initial New Macross-class emigrant ships... either Macross-1 or Macross-2. As I'd explained in an earlier post, we know that by the time Macross-5 was completed and launched the armored shell had become a standard feature and this ship clearly doesn't have one. The whereabouts of the Macross-3 and the Macross-4 are well known, so it must be either Macross-1 or Macross-2.

Well back in the M7 days there was an entire Zentreadi-aesthetics version of both the Northampton and New Macross classes, though it's been long enough that I'm not sure if we actually saw them on screen (in the fleet that settled the Varauta system?) or if they only appeared in art books. Of course, with the digitally rendered series' being able to copy and paste instead of having someone draw and paint them all whether the same or different, it's not economical to spend production funds on more ship variants to appear in the background of fleet scenes when the ones they already have will fill the screen just fine.

The Varauta system used the normal UN Spacy variant. The Zentradi variant Northampton-class was used by the Macross-5 fleet.

PS - Isn't it great that Elysion would not lift off from its resting place, but instead terrify everyone while flying directly over their city as it maneuvered to the water? I get that they probably wanted to use the ocean as a way to baffle the blast from the engines as she lifted off (much as they do in a real-life rocket launches), but why not go further out to sea instead of bathing every citizen in hot boiling steam in the process? To say nothing of the fish and mercats turned into cooked foodstuffs?

Yeah, that struck me as a poor decision too... even if the Macross Elysion was flying almost entirely on gravity control, skimming the rooftops with a skyscraper-sized battleship is hardly going to set the public at ease. They shouldn't have even needed to burn the main engines like that, since the ship is perfectly capable of ascending under gravity control... unless they'd maneuvered out over a colossal clam bed and decided to give the civilians a celebratory clam bake on the way out of town?

I know it's obviously meant to be a homage to the original series, but they seem to have forgot that when the SDF-1 Macross did that it was a bit of deliberately risky flying Global ordered to bully the UN Forces brass into letting him disembark the civilians... it was intended to scare people.

[Kelsain]

But all of the people had been evacuated, in preparation for the destruction of the ruins.

It's unclear where they were evacuated to, though. Inland, or perhaps onto the City ship?

Edited June 21, 2016 by Kelsain

[Graham]

VF-31 variants:

J= Area Support fighter

C= Tactical Support fighter

F=Area Control fighter

E=Recon and electronic warfare

S=Commander

Where did you get this info? Source?

[calubin_175]

Same source as where the Elysion's height was found.

[Seto Kaiba]

But all of the people had been evacuated, in preparation for the destruction of the ruins.

It's unclear where they were evacuated to, though. Inland, or perhaps onto the City ship?

I can't honestly think of a better place to be during the detonation of a tactical reaction warhead than on the other side of a heavily armored, potentially barrier-protected starship bulkhead.

I think a bunch of the houseboats just headed for "anywhere but here" or some kind of mandatory safe distance from the detonation area... though I guess a species that can breathe water doesn't need to worry about drowning.

[calubin_175]

It also looks like the Delta squad is testing the variants of the VF-31 just as SMS was doing with the VF-25.

The C being Tactical Support is most similar to the term close air support which is used to support friendly ground forces, such as recharging batteries for the Walkures. J being space/air superiority support is used to back up the F.

F is space/air superiority dominance fighter, akin to the F-22's role.

Edited June 21, 2016 by calubin_175

[RedWolf]

I do wonder what is the difference between NUN fold drives and Windermere fold drives that they have different event horizons.

[Sir Galahad®]

With the different types of fold visualizations, does this mean you have to be in motion when you are doing a fold? I remember the Factory Satellite folded without moving or the ships in Macross 7 would just blink and disappear in a flash of light.

[Nazareno2012]

With the different types of fold visualizations, does this mean you have to be in motion when you are doing a fold? I remember the Factory Satellite folded without moving or the ships in Macross 7 would just blink and disappear in a flash of light.

I think it is just aesthetics as the underlying physics behind space folds remains the same.

[SebastianP]

Just in case anyone missed it:

Hull number of Hemera confirmed (CV/C-110).

Hemera and Aether confirmed identical, as opposed to mirrored. (Island structure is on the starboard side of both ships).

And the top ends of the spires are really fat and squared off (didn't expect that), with four visible fixed guns and four of what appears to be large missile ports each.

[eko.prasetiyo]

why aether & hemera deck have to be angled when goes interstellar ?

[JB0]

why aether & hemera deck have to be angled when goes interstellar ?

It raises the Look-Cool Factor, and a high LCF is critical to the proper functioning of overtechnology.

[tout-puissant]

Well, remember, the pre-Island Cluster domeships were much, MUCH smaller than the Macross Frontier's Island-1. The dome was only a couple hundred meters high, and pretty much every example except the original Macross-1 had buildings poking through the dome. It wasn't until the fifth-generation emigrant ships where you had a dome so large that it peaked at multiple kilometers high.

Based on its design and appearance, it's almost certain that the emigrant ship that discovered Ragna was one of the initial New Macross-class emigrant ships... either Macross-1 or Macross-2. As I'd explained in an earlier post, we know that by the time Macross-5 was completed and launched the armored shell had become a standard feature and this ship clearly doesn't have one. The whereabouts of the Macross-3 and the Macross-4 are well known, so it must be either Macross-1 or Macross-2

I understand that reasoning and can't deny the possibility. My point though is that the city ship on Ragna is far smaller than any of the New Macross City ships seen in Macross 7. There were several of those designs as you've pointed out, with and without the shell, but the Ragnan ship is a fraction of the size of even those ships, which were around 5000m long (according to the M7 lineart). The Ragna ship is even smaller, perhaps smaller in length than an NMBC.

Thus, my conclusion is that *if* Ragna was first colonized by Macross-1 or -2, the colony ship we see in Delta is not *the* City ship, but one of the smaller ones that accompanied it. Heck, we see two distinct dome ship designs in the infamous Macross-1 "historical" pic from M7, though it's not conclusive if the background ships they're mated to are NMBC or Uraga, in my estimation. Wouldn't surprise me that they had even smaller versions and one of them decided to stay on Ragna while the rest of the fleet moved on (or the other ships were disassembled for some reason).

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross7/newmacross/newmacross1.jpg

Yeah, that struck me as a poor decision too... even if the Macross Elysion was flying almost entirely on gravity control, skimming the rooftops with a skyscraper-sized battleship is hardly going to set the public at ease. They shouldn't have even needed to burn the main engines like that, since the ship is perfectly capable of ascending under gravity control... unless they'd maneuvered out over a colossal clam bed and decided to give the civilians a celebratory clam bake on the way out of town?

I know it's obviously meant to be a homage to the original series, but they seem to have forgot that when the SDF-1 Macross did that it was a bit of deliberately risky flying Global ordered to bully the UN Forces brass into letting him disembark the civilians... it was intended to scare people.

Yeah, which is what I meant. However, to be fair, we're decades on from those days and many people could be used to giant ships floating over their heads (starting from when the aforementioned colony ship first arrived, in the case of Ragna). And even it *we* are used to big jets flying around, but we still have safety rule preventing them from buzzing the tops of our downtowns for effect.

Mark

Edited June 21, 2016 by tout-puissant

[SebastianP]

Yeah, that struck me as a poor decision too... even if the Macross Elysion was flying almost entirely on gravity control, skimming the rooftops with a skyscraper-sized battleship is hardly going to set the public at ease. They shouldn't have even needed to burn the main engines like that, since the ship is perfectly capable of ascending under gravity control... unless they'd maneuvered out over a colossal clam bed and decided to give the civilians a celebratory clam bake on the way out of town?

I know it's obviously meant to be a homage to the original series, but they seem to have forgot that when the SDF-1 Macross did that it was a bit of deliberately risky flying Global ordered to bully the UN Forces brass into letting him disembark the civilians... it was intended to scare people.

Remember that we have all sorts of evidence now that flying using the gravity control system with a properly built ship is completely safe - for example, we have the scene in Delta ep 1 where a Thuverl-Salan - a ship which dwarfs a New Macross Class - is just hovering there a few hundred meters over the local Zentran garrison. Also, going out over the bay and using the main engines to ascend may be a question of how long it would take to actually get to a safe altitude using the gravity control system, in-universe. Out-of-universe of course it was a reason to play with hypervoxel 3D graphics and make a really cool shuttle-style launch sequence.

Also... ascending using the main engines would have made enough noise to scare away all the mercats living in the lagoon, and keep them away for a while - which means they're not going to die horribly when the NUNS sets off the underwater reaction warhead and kills everything still in the lagoon with the shockwave.

[JB0]

Remember that we have all sorts of evidence now that flying using the gravity control system with a properly built ship is completely safe

It was indirectly stated in SDF. They explicitly call out the gravity controller malfunction as a side effect of the booby trap(in ye olde clip episode, Global Report) as opposed to a fault of the design or a mistake in the restoration. And that implies that there's no problem with them if you don't have a millenia-old computer virus in your system.

Otherwise, Global wouldn't have DARED sit there buzzing cities knowing his gravity controllers could rip out at any moment and send everyone plummeting to their death.

Edited June 22, 2016 by JB0

[Zinjo]

It raises the Look-Cool Factor, and a high LCF is critical to the proper functioning of overtechnology.

Doesn't everyone know this?

gg_Macross_Delta_-_12_0F7D9584.mkv_snapshot_20.44_2016.06.21_14.10.03.jpg

gg_Macross_Delta_-_12_0F7D9584.mkv_snapshot_22.03_2016.06.21_14.13.54.jpg

I do wonder what is the difference between NUN fold drives and Windermere fold drives that they have different event horizons.

One uses standard fold drives where as the SV uses SD fold drives. I'd expect the initiators create different event horizons and it gives a high LCF...

I would look for much more polished texture maps on some models though. They would have access to Tenjin's skins from Wings of Goodbye, so some cap ships in hero shots would have major LCF with little investment from this production.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

Remember that we have all sorts of evidence now that flying using the gravity control system with a properly built ship is completely safe - for example, we have the scene in Delta ep 1 where a Thuverl-Salan - a ship which dwarfs a New Macross Class - is just hovering there a few hundred meters over the local Zentran garrison. Also, going out over the bay and using the main engines to ascend may be a question of how long it would take to actually get to a safe altitude using the gravity control system, in-universe. Out-of-universe of course it was a reason to play with hypervoxel 3D graphics and make a really cool shuttle-style launch sequence.

Also... ascending using the main engines would have made enough noise to scare away all the mercats living in the lagoon, and keep them away for a while - which means they're not going to die horribly when the NUNS sets off the underwater reaction warhead and kills everything still in the lagoon with the shockwave.

That Thuverl Salan-class battleship was hovering over the parade ground at an army base on the outskirts of Shahal City... that's a bit different from flying a warship a few dozen meters over everyone's houses with the main engines pointing DOWN. Even if they know that it's perfectly safe, buzzing people's houses like that is definitely going to annoy or frighten people.

[tout-puissant]

Agreed. After all, remember when THIS used to be a thing?

Mark

[Solo Wing Pixy]

Seeing as the Sigur Valens is incredibly powerful to the point where it can casually wreck a fleet by itself, I wonder if there are any feasible counters to protoculture technology.

[tout-puissant]

But we haven't really SEEN that, have we? All she's done so far is fold and defold and look really threatening which the kid was singing, without firing a shot. We have no idea of her offensive or defensive capabilities. For all we know, without the song, the Sigur Valens is a big white elephant.

Mark

[NightmarePlus]

Seeing as the Sigur Valens is incredibly powerful to the point where it can casually wreck a fleet by itself, I wonder if there are any feasible counters to protoculture technology.

Punch it in the face with an aircraft carrier.

[Zinjo]

But we haven't really SEEN that, have we? All she's done so far is fold and defold and look really threatening which the kid was singing, without firing a shot. We have no idea of her offensive or defensive capabilities. For all we know, without the song, the Sigur Valens is a big white elephant.

Mark

Well it is capable of generating a tactile fold fault shield. Whether that is connected to the Wind Song or not is not exactly clear. Either way, it is a remarkable defensive feature never before seen in a Macross production. Even the PD were incapable of such a defence.

[SebastianP]

Punch it in the face with an aircraft carrier.

A very Macross solution.

Step 1: Try singing to it.

Step 2: Try singing harder.

Step 3: If it obviously doesn't intend to listen, punch it in the face with an aircraft carrier.

Step 3B: If getting close enough to punch it in the face with an aircraft carrier is proving difficult, shoot it with a Macross cannon first and charge through the hole you just made. *Then*, punch it in the face with an aircraft carrier. While singing.

And if what I suspect and hope about the Elysion is true, we might end up getting to see something get punched in the face with an aircraft carrier that turns out to hide a Macross cannon inside of it, which would combine the two attacks really nicely.

[wmkjr]

I'd say a "Listen to MY song!" followed up with Main cannon blast followed up by a rocket punch/Daedalus attack with hidden cannon. Or maybe a 1-2 combo rocket Daedalus punch blast. All while singing.

Edited June 23, 2016 by wmkjr