Macross Δ (Delta) - NYE Special Talkback - READ 1st POST

[Renato]

So what you are implying is that Macross simply can't stand on there own, that pandering the mahou shoujo crowd is what Macross needs? This has nothing to do with making a good story and everything to do with going after the 13-24 year old woman's market in Japan. Anytime you sacrifice the DNA of a story to pander to an outside audience isn't clever or trying something new... It is being lazy.

Doing something new is lazy? Sounds to me like the laziest thing they could have done is an SDF Macross rehash. Which is what at least the first half of Frontier seemed to be to me, and part of the reason why I was never too big into it. That is certainly not what is happening this time, though, and I for one find it intriguing, at least. It's not really my thing completely, but I do want Macross to keep on doing new stuff, not old stuff.

Dancing Valkyries... Is this the Mecha action anyone was hoping for? Them milking the SV-262 transformations.... The VF-31 Siegfried is a modified VF-25 Messiah.... With Studio Nue using CG modeling for all Valkyries they should be able to put together more than two Valkyries with Fast Packs...

Milking transformations? More than two Valks with FAST packs? Modified VF-25? What are you talking about? It's a modified YF-30, if anything, and even then, heavily so.

Studio Nue is not the one doing the CG modelling, it's Satelight. Nue has nothing to do with this.

Edited February 19, 2016 by Renato

[Scyla]

Doing something new is lazy? Sounds to me like the laziest thing they could have done is an SDF Macross rehash. Which is what at least the first half of Frontier seemed to be to me, and part of the reason why I was never too big into it. That is certainly not what is happening this time, though, and I for one find it intriguing, at least. It's not really my thing completely, but I do want Macross to keep on doing new stuff, not old stuff.

Milking transformations? More than two Valks with FAST packs? Modified VF-25? What are you talking about? It's a modified YF-30, if anything, and even then, heavily so.

Studio Nue is not the one doing the CG modelling, it's Satelight. Nue has nothing to do with this.

You have to remember the vast variety that Frontier had to offer. One new Valkyrie transformation scheme and a rehash of the VF-17.

[JB0]

Techno men are better than magical girls.

Techno girls are better than either. And since Mikumo is TOTALLY AN ANDROID, that means Delta wins.

[Benson13]

Wow. I've never found a cartoon so upsetting. I was under the impression they were using technology and not magic. I guess I'll have to rewatch it just to make sure.

Seems like Delta I'd just following Macross's logical progression. We've continually strayed further and further from a reality based anime.

Valkyrie1981, there are quite a few animes out there that offer the grit you're looking for. Maybe this Macross isn't for you. For me I think it's far to early to judge. The mecha and dog fights are quite good so I think I'll stick around for more.

[Nazareno2012]

The mecha and dog fights are quite good so I think I'll stick around for more.

That is exactly the what I really like in Macross. No matter how ridiculous the other elements are, as long as there are mecha and dogfights I will still watch Macross.

[Zinjo]

Wow. I've never found a cartoon so upsetting. I was under the impression they were using technology and not magic. I guess I'll have to rewatch it just to make sure.

Seems like Delta I'd just following Macross's logical progression. We've continually strayed further and further from a reality based anime.

Valkyrie1981, there are quite a few animes out there that offer the grit you're looking for. Maybe this Macross isn't for you. For me I think it's far to early to judge. The mecha and dog fights are quite good so I think I'll stick around for more.

Read the Mecha/Technology thread. Much of what we've seen can be explained by already introduced tech from previous series.

[frothymug]

The long-winded and hyperbolic rants being posted as of late do seem to be very unfair to the show, since we've only seen one episode and it's way too early to write off the series already. After a few of those posts, the TL;DR syndrome sets in and I just move on. I'm gonna be honest: I've seen the episode one time and it seems like it grows on you if you watch it a few more times. I don't think that this is what makes a show "good", though; It should only take one viewing. But despite all of the things that I've seen that I don't like, one stands out above all of the others...

I literally face-palmed when the VF-31's started doing choreographed dancing behind the Walkure singers. Up to that point, I was taking it all in with a grain of salt. The dogfighting at the end of the episode washed some of that bad taste of of my mouth (it was awesome), but there's still some lingering aftertaste that I just don't like. Here's to hoping that things start to relatively settle back down to reality in the coming episodes, or I may not enjoy this series very much.

[Valkyrie1981]

The long-winded and hyperbolic rants being posted as of late do seem to be very unfair to the show, since we've only seen one episode and it's way too early to write off the series already. After a few of those posts, the TL;DR syndrome sets in and I just move on. I'm gonna be honest: I've seen the episode one time and it seems like it grows on you if you watch it a few more times. I don't think that this is what makes a show "good", though; It should only take one viewing. But despite all of the things that I've seen that I don't like, one stands out above all of the others...

I literally face-palmed when the VF-31's started doing choreographed dancing behind the Walkure singers. Up to that point, I was taking it all in with a grain of salt. The dogfighting at the end of the episode washed some of that bad taste of of my mouth (it was awesome), but there's still some lingering aftertaste that I just don't like. Here's to hoping that things start to relatively settle back down to reality in the coming episodes, or I may not enjoy this series very much.

I've watched it a couple times now, and I feel that the choreographed dancing Valkyries was the point I felt repulsed by Delta. However I feel that the dancing Valkyries are only going to worsen. The Walkures can possibly evolve... It's possible they can improve.... However, if dancing Valkyries continue and expands encroaching on the Dog Fighting... things are going downhill very quickly...

[VF5SS]

However, if dancing Valkyries continue and expands encroaching on the Dog Fighting... things are going downhill very quickly...

[Einherjar]

I'll bite the bullet; you grew up watching Robotech didn't you 1981?

[anime52k8]

I'll bite the bullet; you grew up watching Robotech didn't you 1981?

I really didn't want to play the "people who want 'gritty' and 'realistic' Macross are probably closeted Robotech fans" card. but...

[technoblue]

You know, mixing grit with magic and mysticism isn't always bad. It's given us good series in the past like Gasaraki and...Macross Zero. What I really appreciate with Macross is the variety. It isn't just one thing for one type of fan. It also has plenty of resources for those who enjoy researching the story, tech, setting, and characters further if they so chose. Of course, if you are happy to take this stuff at face value, then you can do that as well.

I don't understand why Macross has to be one thing. To be only one thing means to be stuck, IMO, and that doesn't jive.

[Dio]

I keep telling myself how Macross 7 came off as ridiculous at first, but became my favorite series after I followed it through several episodes. Delta has that same potential, to be sure, and I won't write it off early. I'll give it... half the season before forming a strong opinion, outside of some catastrophic failure like introducing Jar-Jar Jenius or such.

[Einherjar]

I really didn't want to play the "people who want 'gritty' and 'realistic' Macross are probably closeted Robotech fans" card. but...

Just applying the KISS principle to sum up some white guy ultimately screwing a lot of people with his delusions of grandeur 30 years ago.

[Jefuemon]

How dare a Japanese company make something for the Japanese market, featuring what's popular in Japan now.

HOW DARE THEY!!!1!11!!111!1!!1!

[Tochiro]

Well, as we have pointed out on the podcast again and again for years now, the largest segment of Macross fandom today is the teen to late 20's female demographic.

This isn't a demographic that Delta is aiming to create, it's one that exists and is what breathed new life into the franchise.

So naturally things that the largest demographic like will make it into the show.

Is that such an alien concept? Don't make something that won't interest your largest demographic, the one that keeps the franchise and ground roots culture vibrant.

For example, here is one of the newer Frontier fans that's popped up on YouTube recently.

This is the face of Macross fandom as it has been for almost a decade and as it stands today.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Tochiro

[Mr March]

I don't think we as an audience are supposed to take Macross Delta that seriously when the creators are all clearly aware of the fanciful style they're setting for the story and tone of this new series. I mean, can there be much doubt about the kind of show that is Macross Delta? I would think the preview episode was pretty clear at establishing the various types of humor, fantasy, and character they are going for. I think to give the series a fair and healthy viewing, the audience has to accept this style going forward, not blindly hope against hope that the show will suddenly do an about face and become some serious, grounded war drama filled with hard-science fiction technology.

Also, I have to question folks who are reacting with outrage at this point in the release of the Macross productions. The first time - reacting with outrage to the absurdity of Macross 7 - was completely understandable. In style and approach, Macross 7 dramatically pulled away from the real robot genre that SDF Macross helped establish and popularize. Some may disagree, but can all understand folks familiar with Macross up to that point might react to such a shift in style and tone. But now? Kawamori and Co. have clearly established where they are willing to take the Macross stories. Macross Delta should not come as any INITIAL surprise, shock, or disappointment to anyone who knows Macross. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Lastly, I think fans (particularly male) need to come to terms with the way the more modern Macross productions are being sold. The Macross series are no longer being targeted exclusively at young males; the Macross shows are now far more inclusive and it can be argued some of the most important elements of Macross are being aimed right at female fans. Now, this is not to the exclusion of male fans; for all that Macross Delta may be, it's still clearly appealing to males with plenty of mecha and action. And female fans can choose from a wide variety of magical girl/idol anime made exlusively for them (the magical girl genre itself has also broadened to appeal to male fans). So we're still looking at a hybrid and characteristic to Macross thus far, Delta is a new type of story and show for the franchise.

This time around, Macross isn't going the Macross Zero route. There are other options out there for that kind of anime (Gundam in particular are releasing several productions that might appeal to more hardcore mecha fans). So I'd say look to other anime to fill that hunger and if you choose to stay with Delta, try to enjoy the show for what it is.

[Marzan]

Valkyrie1981, I take it the number is the year of your birth?

The target audience of Delta is not 35 year old western anime fans. And I say that respectfully (I'm older than you are ). Tochiro has already explained above who this is targeting.

The franchise is evolving together with the market and the audience. And that's a good thing. Because even if you dislike Delta, (which I think you will no matter what direction they go with the story), a succesful Macross series means more releases and attention of/to Macross goodies from past series. Just like it happened with Frontier. And that's something that everyone who's a regular here can enjoy.

If you want nitty-gritty mecha I can recommend you go with Gundam. With both Gundam Origin and Thunderbolt they are covering that segment pretty well.

[VF5SS]

Also, I have to question folks who are reacting with outrage at this point in the release of the Macross productions. The first time - reacting with outrage to the absurdity of Macross 7 - was completely understandable. In style and approach, Macross 7 dramatically pulled away from the real robot genre that SDF Macross helped establish and popularize.

"Real robot" is pretty broad (marketing) term. It includes far more shows with seemingly fantastical powers, "mysticism" and glowing space psychics than not.

Mashymre Cello (that beautiful man) has taught me that much ; -;7

[Renato]

The term "Real Robot" is very problematic... I understand why it is necessary, since it helps to keep a distance from the heroic "Super Robot" lineage of Mazinger et al, but that doesn't make it completely realistic. Kawamori himself, in his book, has called the very notion of "Real Robots" being somehow realistic, "nonsense" (direct quote).

Case in point. L-Gaim was on TV last night and the entire episode was about female pro-wrestling.

[VF5SS]

"Real robot" is a term that is far too often used in a "no true Scotsman" type argument. I've almost never seen it brought up for anything other than trying to exclude or discredit something. It's a thing people can't agree on what the definition really is but they always have a (very malleable) idea of what it isn't.

[Renato]

"Real robot" is a term that is far too often used in a "no true Scotsman" type argument. I've almost never seen it brought up for anything other than trying to exclude or discredit something. It's a thing people can't agree on what the definition really is but they always have a (very malleable) idea of what it isn't.

Yeah, that's what I mean. It kind of only exists to differentiate, rather than define.

[VF-15 Banshee]

"Real robot" is a term that is far too often used in a "no true Scotsman" type argument. I've almost never seen it brought up for anything other than trying to exclude or discredit something. It's a thing people can't agree on what the definition really is but they always have a (very malleable) idea of what it isn't.

I got into one of those arguments once on a forum. A dozen people all going back and forth and not one of them could agree on a strict definition of Real Robot other than "probably the 08th MS Team."

[JB0]

I take the term "real robot" to not mean the robots are realistic, but that they are utilized realistically.

As in they mass-produce that crap, the machines are military hardware instead of unique devices, and no one trusts a twelve-year-old kid with a weapon of mass destruction.

[Renato]

I take the term "real robot" to not mean the robots are realistic, but that they are utilized realistically.

As in they mass-produce that crap, the machines are military hardware instead of unique devices, and no one trusts a twelve-year-old kid with a weapon of mass destruction.

So Gundam is out, then?

[JB0]

So Gundam is out, then?

Well, obviously. G Gundam is BLATANTLY super robot, and if you're watching any other franchise entry, you're doing it wrong.

[Tochiro]

Featuring the vocal talents of forum regulars Arbit, Hannou Heiki, VF-15 Banshee, Scream man, and more!.

Want to hear what Macross World is saying about Delta?
Tune in to the latest episode of SpeakerPODcast!
http://www.macrossworld.com/speakerpodcast-ep-38-macross-delta-your-way/

[VF5SS]

I take the term "real robot" to not mean the robots are realistic, but that they are utilized realistically.

As in they mass-produce that crap, the machines are military hardware instead of unique devices, and no one trusts a twelve-year-old kid with a weapon of mass destruction.

I guess that excludes Dougram then. The titular robot is portrayed as more powerful than all the other robots, never gets mass-produced, and is piloted by a teenage boy.

[bsu legato]

Hey, folks! Well, I broke down and watched the preview. Without rehashing whats already being argued about here, I'll just say that I realized very quickly that I am now well beyond the target demographic for this show, and I won't be watching the rest. "Sailor scouts" is where I draw the line, and I don't have the spare time to devote to watching Delta in the hopes that it makes a hard 180 degree turn back into harder sci-fi. I'm out.

[anime52k8]

I'm saddened by all the second hand Sailor Moon hate. Sailor Moon is one of my all time favorite shows.

[Einherjar]

It would be hilarious if Delta becomes a "Trukk not Munky" situation.

[frothymug]

Sailor Moon is Sailor Moon. Macross is not Sailor Moon. I'm just saying that hate on the Sailor Moon aspects in Delta is not necessarily hate on Sailor Moon itself. People feel that it doesn't belong in Macross, that's all.

On the subject of super vs. real, I consider super robots any mecha whose power and capability is based on how hard the pilot screams when fighting. Real robot is grounded in some form of hard science, with only a handful of creative liberties taken. Usually real robots are 50 ft tall and smaller, too.

[VF5SS]

So the Macross Quarter is a super robot. I'm okay with this.

[frothymug]

I said the screaming part partly in jest. What I meant was that the robot is empowered by the fighting spirit of its pilot. Surges in power are usually accompanied by extensive bouts of yelling and screaming.

[cyde01]

wutdafuq did i just see?😱