Karaoke Ninja Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Guess most of us oldies could still tolerate Frontier, despite all the hologram girls in battle scenes (Zero/Plus had it but Frontier was more prevalent)...but wardrobe-changing-sailormoons? really? Delta is pushing it, ... way over the top for me. The episode wasnt too bad, not until the sailormoon scenes. Wardrobe changing with holograms isn't even new to Macross. It was around since DYRL. Quote
aaajin Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Wardrobe changing with holograms isn't even new to Macross. It was around since DYRL. not to the sailmoon-ish extent of Delta. Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I think it's a passion of his in real life. If I'm not mistaken, he is a huge Idol group supporter,especially of AKb48 what with his focus on the anime series AKB0048. OH Really? I see, Maybe Japanese old men differ from us the ones from the rest of the World. I wonder if these japanese design geniouses are also you know, anti criticism people you know the way depicted by Tak Mashido in the real steel robots Movie. It ain't really Japanese old men, imo. I reckon most of them don't even care about anime and stuff. They most likely don't even watch any anime at all. It is squarely the japanese otaku (most likely, the japanse idols-otaku) that the Delta-commitee are aiming and pandering heavily to. That otaku-demographic seem to be the biggest merchandising purchasers of this new phase of "trend" over there lately. See Love Live! and other similar stuff being sold heavily on japanese collectible-shops like ami. Money talks. Especially, cash... Quote
MisaForever Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I want nothing more than for Macross to always hang on to its roots... but many people here have a point. They're branching out to a wider audience because they NEED to. I think this will bring in not only long-time Macross fans but also anime fans in general due to the KAWAII-DESU-NESS. Quote
Gubaba Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 It ain't really Japanese old men, imo. I reckon most of them don't even care about anime and stuff. They most likely don't even watch any anime at all. It is squarely the japanese otaku (most likely, the japanse idols-otaku) that the Delta-commitee are aiming and pandering heavily to. That otaku-demographic seem to be the biggest merchandising purchasers of this new phase of "trend" over there lately. See Love Live! and other similar stuff being sold heavily on japanese collectible-shops like ami. Money talks. Especially, cash... No, they're aiming the show first and foremost at young women. It's been this way for quite a while now. Quote
jenius Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 People have very interesting concepts of what Macross has always been about. Delta, good or bad, certainly doesn't FEEL like SDF Macross. I'm not saying it has to, I'm just saying the reaction of "You don't like Macross!" when people say they don't like Delta's Sailor Moon dancing mecha bit is a little over-the-top. Quote
David Hingtgen Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Watched sub---didn't really pick up anything new this time around. If you read the "early teaser" info and listened to most of the podcast, and watched the raw----watching the sub isn't really going to add much more. Nothing more is explained that I didn't already know. Everything's "still a mystery". Quote
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Based on this episode and previews, i'm going to guess that Hayate is going to join the delta team then criticize Mirage for her lack of dance timing in formation w/ her valk then develop a delta love triangle between her and the little apple girl Freyja Wion Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 No, they're aiming the show first and foremost at young women. It's been this way for quite a while now. I'll be very interested in any data that shows that the japanese young women actually purchased more Frontier and Delta merchandises (concerts, manga, cd's, dvd's, valks, etc) and stuff. Quote
Gunbuster Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 At this point, I would not be surprise if the final episode is about a robot dance off between the 2 opposing forces... Quote
Raptor One Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Watched the ep again. Loved the dogfight at the end. And I do like all the characters. I thought the Walkure stuff was okay but the whole transformation sequence was pretty ridiculous, lol. Sheryl did it better. The Valk animation was far better in Frontier.However, as has been mentioned, maybe this will be improved a bit by the time the actual series is released Not in the first episode it wasn't. If anti-grav technology has advanced to that level, why do Valks still need Gerwalk mode, or even wings for that matter. You no longer need wings for lift if you have so efficient anti-gravity drives. I'd guess that it's not efficient enough to be used with things the size of Valks Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 At this point, I would not be surprise if the final episode is about a robot dance off between the 2 opposing forces... What if Basara shows up instead? Quote
Gubaba Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I'll be very interested in any data that shows that the japanese young women actually purchased more Frontier and Delta merchandises (concerts, manga, cd's, dvd's, valks, etc) and stuff.Most events I went to seemed about half and half, although some, like the life-size Valk in Ikebukuro DEFINITELY had more women. And more women I met liked Frontier than men. And I'm not talking about at geek gatherings, either, just normal hang-outs.It's all circumstantial, I know, but I went to nearly every Macross event that was held during the four years I was in Tokyo, so I think I have a pretty good idea. Quote
Gunbuster Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 That would be the cherry on the top and so epic! Quote
sketchley Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I'll be very interested in any data that shows that the japanese young women actually purchased more Frontier and Delta merchandises (concerts, manga, cd's, dvd's, valks, etc) and stuff. So, which demographic were these luxury goods aimed at? http://p-bandai.jp/item/item-1000096799/ (￥8,000+) http://online.thekiss.co.jp/user_data/sherylnome2.php (￥23,000+) I humbly submit that you rephrase your question from who purchased more (as in quantity), to who spent more (as in money spent). Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 So, which demographic were these luxury goods aimed at? http://p-bandai.jp/item/item-1000096799/ (￥8,000+) http://online.thekiss.co.jp/user_data/sherylnome2.php (￥23,000+) I humbly submit that you rephrase your question from who purchased more (as in quantity), to who spent more (as in money spent). Did japanese women actually bought that? Maybe you should rephrased your reply since my post you quoted is not really limited to "luxury goods"... Quote
Gubaba Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Did japanese women actually bought that? Maybe you should rephrased your reply since my post you quoted is not really limited to "luxury goods"... Well, I answered your question...And yes, Japanese women did actually purchase the jewelry. Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 It's not about just "liking" more. It's about who actually purchased more stuff. People buy stuff. There should be some actual data about it. Quote
McFly!! Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Based on this episode and previews, i'm going to guess that Hayate is going to join the delta team then criticize Mirage for her lack of dance timing in formation w/ her valk then develop a delta love triangle between her and the little apple girl Freyja Wion Hahaha good call, David! Freyja will need a pilot to partner with! I bet hayate's rival will be serious boy whatshisface. One thing though, why does Freyja refer to her heart shaped box hair thingie as 'lulu'? Is it a separate alien symbiote? Or does she just like naming random body parts (no Johnson jokes here... Yet)? Quote
Tubbsii Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I enjoyed what is saw, but i'll miss Risa Ebata's designs-that lady needs to put out and art book. Any ways I'm down for idols but i don't like the outfits that much, they're unique but lack an overall sense of unity, hopefully they're will be hella costume changes. I really love Freyja's voice it sounds very unique. What were the song titles? The second one is my favorite and it sounded better when Freyja joined in.... the subtitles' choice of words though..." I can't control my body. I'm coming" definitely made me snicker. I'm not sure how accurate of a translation that is. For once i actually care less about the mecha stuff, but the Valk and Valk action was great. The singing is super involved with the mecha action scenes and its really cool and reminds me of macross 7. I liked how the valkyries were disaming the regults. So i see the similarities to macross 7 and i'm interested to see the elements of macross plus. The love triangle is Mirage, Freyja and Hayate right? Quote
kajnrig Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) People have very interesting concepts of what Macross has always been about. Delta, good or bad, certainly doesn't FEEL like SDF Macross. I'm not saying it has to, I'm just saying the reaction of "You don't like Macross!" when people say they don't like Delta's Sailor Moon dancing mecha bit is a little over-the-top. The same could be said of the opposite reaction of "You don't like Macross!" when people say they DO like Delta's Sailor Moon dancing mecha bit. For my part, I contented myself with disregarding the notion that Macross ever existed primarily as anything other than a marketing ploy. SDFM's overarching theme that culture can overcome hatred and warfare was really well-told. M+ (the movie) was and continues to be the peak of the series in terms of story, theme, characters, action, everything. And from there it's been an exploration of pop culture and understanding Macross's place in shaping and being shaped by said culture. ...I'm most inclined to compare Kawamori to Hideo Kojima, and Macross to the Metal Gear series. Both are auteurs in their respective fields, and both franchises, in my opinion, epitomize what can be done with AAA production values. EDIT: What were the song titles? The second one is my favorite and it sounded better when Freyja joined in.... the subtitles' choice of words though..." I can't control my body. I'm coming" definitely made me snicker. I'm not sure how accurate of a translation that is. I don't know about the first few, but the last one is Ikenai Borderline. (The first, I think, is "Love! Halation The War." Love-halation, as in the inhalation of love, perhaps?) Edited January 2, 2016 by kajnrig Quote
Gubaba Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 It's not about just "liking" more. It's about who actually purchased more stuff. People buy stuff. There should be some actual data about it. I mentioned the events. Those cost money to get in, and had plenty of merchandise. There's a street in Ikebukuro with several anime shops catering primarily to female fans, and Frontier stuff was always there. I know plenty of cosplayers who bought Sheryl and Ranka outfits.I'm not sure why you're doubting any of this... Quote
Sandman Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 It got stupid in the SECOND season?? You know that right from the start there is a talking bear that works at the cafeteria, right? If you can accept that, what on Earth could have pushed you over the edge in season 2?? In my opinion, anime in general is much, much better now in 2015/6 than it was back in 2007/8 when Frontier was airing. Yeah it got stupid in season two when it became a harem show and had a talking penis become part of a love triangle with the main character. Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I mentioned the events. Those cost money to get in, and had plenty of merchandise. There's a street in Ikebukuro with several anime shops catering primarily to female fans, and Frontier stuff was always there. I know plenty of cosplayers who bought Sheryl and Ranka outfits. I'm not sure why you're doubting any of this... I'm not doubting it. There are lots of pictures online and stuff. But data is data. It is part of business. Bandai and/or BW and/or Victor must have some public data showing which demographic bought their stuff the most. Quote
Gubaba Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 I'm not doubting it. There are lots of pictures online and stuff. But data is data. It is part of business. Bandai and/or BW and/or Victor must have some public data showing which demographic bought their stuff the most. Maybe they do, I don't know.The fact that a few times a year they would have "Oshare ["stylish"] Macross" temporary shops open up in several major department stores (and the merchandise on sale was usually decidedly feminine) or that most of the events were held in areas where young women usually shop should tell you a lot, though. Quote
treatment Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 The same could be said of the opposite reaction of "You don't like Macross!" when people say they DO like Delta's Sailor Moon dancing mecha bit. For my part, I contented myself with disregarding the notion that Macross ever existed primarily as anything other than a marketing ploy. SDFM's overarching theme that culture can overcome hatred and warfare was really well-told. M+ (the movie) was and continues to be the peak of the series in terms of story, theme, characters, action, everything. And from there it's been an exploration of pop culture and understanding Macross's place in shaping and being shaped by said culture. Don't get me wrong, but let's try not to kid ourselves. All the different series in Macross were/are marketing ploys. I fully agree that M+ maybe the pinnacle for some of outside of Japan), but tragically, that alone did not make it a runaway financial success in Japan like M7 and Frontier did. Quote
kajnrig Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Don't get me wrong, but let's try not to kid ourselves. All the different series in Macross were/are marketing ploys. I fully agree that M+ maybe the pinnacle for some of outside of Japan), but tragically, that alone did not make it a runaway financial success in Japan like M7 and Frontier did. M+ definitely seems like the vanity project of the Macross franchise. Kawamori's vanity projects always outshine his mainstream successes in terms of artistic value, but they're never as financially viable. (Escaflowne leaps to mind...) Guess most of us oldies (I'm in my early 30's, not sure if that's 'old' relative to the Macross community ) could still tolerate Frontier, despite all the hologram girls in battle scenes (Zero/Plus had it but Frontier was more prevalent)...but wardrobe-changing-sailormoons? really? Delta is pushing it, ... way over the top for me. The episode wasnt too bad, not until the sailormoon scenes. ... This may sound out of place, but all in all, I am glad Gundam Thunderbolt made its apprearance (manga was good), right when all hope is lost for a gritty, good story-line & characters building, mecha anime. And the fact that I forgot to watch Knights of Sidonia Season 2. Can we not with the whole "us oldies" bit? I think it's been demonstrated that even among the supposed "older generation," there are plenty (seems like even a majority) who like the newest iterations of Macross just fine. Also, if you're looking for good story lines and character building in grim settings, you're doing wrong to look at Thunderbolt. IBO, despite all its problems, is far grimmer, with much better storytelling and character-building. Thunderbolt is Call of Duty grim-dark Gundam. IBO is actual grim Gundam. One wonders if perhaps you just have bad taste in anime. Quote
Raptor One Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Rewatched with subs. It definitely plays a lot better when you can understand all the dialogue and stuff. I actually really like how they set up this dire and foreboding situation when the Var Outbreak happened and the city turned into a war zone, then had Walkure come in as almost a literal ray of hope in the darkness. Little touches like how they had to contain the var outbreak within the "soundstage" and how you can tell the girls are actually putting themselves in serious risk by going into the battlefield like that. It adds some weight knowing that even the stuff that looked kind of ridiculous is actually grounded by the technology the have available. The drones can run out of charge, the Var Syndrome can reappear if the song is interrupted etc. I also really liked the teamwork Delta Squadron showed during the dogfight. I don't recall Skull Squadron from Macross F ever being that in-sync lol. The Kingdom of Wind boys had the same thing going for them as well. But Arad and Messer seem pretty badass already. Can't wait to see how Hayate fits into the team. Freiya being from the Kingdom of Wind is pretty cool. I bet one of the other pilots is the guy she was supposed to marry. Would be funny if it turns out that's why they hate Walkure so much, because they think she ran away because of them. Also, while I'm not crazy about the actual Walkure songs, I did enjoy a lot of the background music/score. And the song that started off the Var syndrome was pretty nice as well. I'm really looking forward to seeing where this series goes. Someone from Walkure ain't gonna survive to the end.. Quote
sketchley Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Did japanese women actually bought that? Maybe you should rephrased your reply since my post you quoted is not really limited to "luxury goods"... I was emphasizing the fact that there were luxury goods produced (ie not expensive transforming toys, but jewelry made out of gold and silver) for Macross F, in addition to the regular run-of-the-mill pins/concerts/bread-in-a-can/what-have-you tie-ins. Given that some of the items are sold out, someone did buy them. I have yet to see a male Macross fan wearing those expensive jewelry items. So, as Japan has yet to recognize a third gender option, one is left with the inevitable conclusion... (Should it be mentioned that young, unmarried working age women in Japan are the demographic with the largest disposable income?) Edited January 2, 2016 by sketchley Quote
Sandman Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Yes and Yes. Some of us aren't into contemporary anime because we might not actually be fans of "anime." I've always seen anime as just animated films from Japan. A live action horror film can have an animated version that still represents the genre. Those unfamiliar think of anime as it's own genre. There are some animated programs that seem more anime-like than others. Many fans seem to just love this contemporary anime style that screams "Look at me! I'm another cookie cutter anime that delivers all the modern anime tropes!" I honesty am not a fan of "anime." I remember the dark days before the Internet when anime was hard to find. When you rented any anime VHS no matter how good or bad the premise was. Any anime was good anime. Now decades later I can say most of it was bad. Give me a good Space Opera that just happens to be animated. Don't give me contemporary anime with all of its tropes that just happens to shares a title with something that was once good. Amen. I first got into anime in the late 70s/early 80s because i was a sci-fi fan and i ran out of sci-fi to watch. Anime back then had a lot of sci-fi/space opera type shows so i moved into anime. I eventually got into other types of anime. They don't make the types of shows that originally got me interested in anime. Honestly the last 7 years of anime has been pretty unbearable for me. Can't stand this moe/pedophilia stuff they are pushing. Quote
Guest davidwhangchoi Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Hahaha good call, David! Freyja will need a pilot to partner with! I bet hayate's rival will be serious boy whatshisface. One thing though, why does Freyja refer to her heart shaped box hair thingie as 'lulu'? Is it a separate alien symbiote? Or does she just like naming random body parts (no Johnson jokes here... Yet)? i'm not sure what that was but it looked weird sticking out of her hair i thought boldoza was trying to show me his protoculture plate. Edited January 2, 2016 by davidwhangchoi Quote
azrael Posted January 2, 2016 Author Posted January 2, 2016 Focus on the episode. If you want to talk about marketing data, do so elsewhere. Quote
Karaoke Ninja Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Also, if you're looking for good story lines and character building in grim settings, you're doing wrong to look at Thunderbolt. IBO, despite all its problems, is far grimmer, with much better storytelling and character-building. Thunderbolt is Call of Duty grim-dark Gundam. IBO is actual grim Gundam. One wonders if perhaps you just have bad taste in anime. If he thinks IBO is good then maybe he does have bad taste... Quote
aaajin Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 (edited) Also, if you're looking for good story lines and character building in grim settings, you're doing wrong to look at Thunderbolt. IBO, despite all its problems, is far grimmer, with much better storytelling and character-building. Thunderbolt is Call of Duty grim-dark Gundam. IBO is actual grim Gundam. One wonders if perhaps you just have bad taste in anime. IBO? yeah watched it but didt like the story line. kinda childish IMO, esp with the Yakuza ceremony & what-not. I appreciate the likes of MS 8th Team, Sidonia, etc. but certainly not sailormoo...err Delta stay on topic and stop picking on others who dont like the series. If he thinks IBO is good then maybe he does have bad taste... kajnrig seems to have a bad taste then OK, off topic. Stay on topic guys. I was just addressing my personal thoughts on sailormoo...err Delta. Edited January 2, 2016 by aaajin Quote
Heron Posted January 2, 2016 Posted January 2, 2016 Taking a closer look at the episode, it seems that whomever is behind the Var song is using Fold Quartz to manipulate the personal Fold waves of people much like Ranka used Aimo to alter the reactions of the Vajra. I wonder if the Kingdom of Wind somehow managed to gain access to Galaxy's Data or perhaps one of Galaxies AI's are behind the Kingdom of Wind? It would also explain the similarity between the Drakken's and the VF-27. As well the Aerial Knights use of Ghosts. Quote
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