Macross Δ (Delta) - NYE Special Talkback - READ 1st POST

[kajnrig]

Yeah man, it kinda pains me to see the 171 still serve as canon fodder too.

Could it be they're using it as a placeholder until a final design is, well, finalized? By this point the 171 is... 20 years old? That's way older than the 11 was when it was phased out. Personally, I'd love for the VF-11 to make a comeback as this colony's mainstay fighter. Like they're so far on the edge of NUN territory that they're using tech twenty years behind the times, with some VF-17(1) valks sprinkled amongst the force, and even fewer VF-25s/27s/31s for specialists like the Walkure.

[Sandman]

I was hoping they would use the regular teal colored VF-171s. Hoping this would prompt bandai to re-release that version without the breakage flaws.

[Lorindor]

RedWolf: Yes, Macross II came off as too derivative. But it's still in my opinion the sequel that has come closest in finding the feel and tone of SDF Macross and DYRL. Macross II had most of the elements that made the previous installments great, it just did a poor job with them. The main failing was yet again the mediocre character drama. Delta did not start out convincing on that front either, but we'll see in the end.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

the yellow valk is probably the worst valk attachment w/ the stage. prob going to be an easy pre-order

[Graham]

Thank you! I thought I was crazy.

The Valk animation was far better in Frontier.

However, as has been mentioned, maybe this will be improved a bit by the time the actual series is released

[gunbuster76]

ima fan.

and i dig the music. a lot.

i'm ok with the walkure parts. i get it. but it can be a pushing a little. we'll see how this goes.

Edited January 2, 2016 by gunbuster76

[wmkjr]

Could it be they're using it as a placeholder until a final design is, well, finalized? By this point the 171 is... 20 years old? That's way older than the 11 was when it was phased out. Personally, I'd love for the VF-11 to make a comeback as this colony's mainstay fighter. Like they're so far on the edge of NUN territory that they're using tech twenty years behind the times, with some VF-17(1) valks sprinkled amongst the force, and even fewer VF-25s/27s/31s for specialists like the Walkure.

The VF-171 might be 20 years old but I'm thinking these are the VF-171EX versions which would still be within a usable service life and upgraded with better tech.

Edited January 2, 2016 by wmkjr

[technoblue]

Wow. Different is an understatement. But I do see a lot of potential (to me eye, there are elements of Macross II, Macross 7, and AKB0048 in the mix). It will be interesting to see how things look a few more episodes in. For now, I'm going to keep my opinions on this new Macross series in neutral.

Things that stood out/caught me off guard:

• Dancing mecha (including the dancing Valkyries)
• Another take on weaponized singing (And this time, instead of getting a flight of novice Jamming Birds, we have more of a veteran group that actually seems to have an effect. It reminded more of Macross II in that regard).

Edited January 2, 2016 by technoblue

[IXTL]

The VF-171 might be 20 years old but I'm thinking these are the VF-171EX versions which would still be within a usable service life and upgraded with better tech.

They look to be the regular 171 going by the cockpit canopy and battroid head design.

[Graham]

While the podcast noted the boomerangs appeared to do whatever they wanted to, it looked to me like they only do TWO things. They project holograms, and they project forcefields.

It's just that those two technologies happen to lend themselves to a lot of creative reapplication.

The boomerang technology seems too advanced for the Macross universe, unless there has been some rapid breakthoughths in miniturization since Frontier.

As someone mentioned during the Podcast, why need Valks (apart for as wireless recharging stations).

How do the boomerangs fly for one? I guess it has to be sub-miniture anti-gravity drives, as there are no thrusters, jets, verniers or propellers visible.

If anti-grav technology has advanced to that level, why do Valks still need Gerwalk mode, or even wings for that matter. You no longer need wings for lift if you have so efficient anti-gravity drives.

[RedWolf]

On the VF-171 different NUNS branch different VF colors. We'll probably see more of this going from planet to planet.

On the Multidrones Macross 7 had floating mics thus a precedent. Also Frontier had hoverboards.

Edited January 2, 2016 by RedWolf

[Karaoke Ninja]

The boomerang technology seems too advanced for the Macross universe, unless there has been some rapid breakthoughths in miniturization since Frontier.

As someone mentioned during the Podcast, why need Valks (apart for as wireless recharging stations).

How do the boomerangs fly for one? I guess it has to be sub-miniture anti-gravity drives, as there are no thrusters, jets, verniers or propellers visible.

If anti-grav technology has advanced to that level, why do Valks still need Gerwalk mode, or wings for that matter.

Boomerangs can't take down mechs and the floating technology doesn't seem that advanced when you considered 7 had those floating microphones.

[Renato]

Medicine would be an interesting profession in Macross.

Music has physical and psychological effects.

SEVEN DID IT

[Graham]

The boomerangs seen a heck of a lot more capable than the floating duck mics of M7.

But true, I had forgotten about them.

I'm hoping the major shift in tone that's been mentioned for episode 2 is that all the Walkure singers get killed off, leaving us with only stoaway girl (sorry, can't remember her name), as the only singer for the series, leaving room for more Valk on Valk dogfight and less Sailormoon magical girl crap.

But that's most likely wishful thinking.

[wmkjr]

They look to be the regular 171 going by the cockpit canopy and battroid head design.

Thanks. One more 171 to get plus 6 Drakens and the VF-31's= running out of display room if they release them all.

[Renato]

I just saw the sub. I didn't hate it as much as i was expecting to but i'm not a fan of adopting the modern anime style that is prevalent this day. It's why my anime viewing is pretty much nil these days with some exceptions. Knights of Sidonia had promise until it got stupid in the second season.

It got stupid in the SECOND season?? You know that right from the start there is a talking bear that works at the cafeteria, right? If you can accept that, what on Earth could have pushed you over the edge in season 2??

In my opinion, anime in general is much, much better now in 2015/6 than it was back in 2007/8 when Frontier was airing.

[Renato]

On the VF-171 different NUNS branch different VF colors. We'll probably see more of this going from planet to planet.

On the Multidrones Macross 7 had floating mics thus a precedent. Also Frontier had hoverboards.

Seven did it!

Wait, Frontier had hoverboards?? I don't remember that!

[Tochiro]

I think I totally misunderstood that. I thought when they said Lady M they we're refering to Mikumo?

Commander Molder says they are there at Al-Shahal on Lady M's orders. So unless Mikimo outranks the Commander, he is referring to someone else.

Was discussing with a Japanese fan on Twitter last night. Came to the conclusion that it must be LADY MILIA...THE PRESIDENT! lol

Edited January 2, 2016 by Tochiro

[Renato]

The boomerangs seen a heck of a lot more capable than the floating duck mics of M7.

But true, I had forgotten about them.

I'm hoping the major shift in tone that's been mentioned for episode 2 is that all the Walkure singers get killed off, leaving us with only stoaway girl (sorry, can't remember her name), as the only singer for the series, leaving room for more Valk on Valk dogfight and less Sailormoon magical girl crap.

But that's most likely wishful thinking.

That's not wishful thinking, that's homicidal thinking, sir.... Those are some dark, disturbing cartoons you are expecting

The Valk animation was far better in Frontier.

However, as has been mentioned, maybe this will be improved a bit by the time the actual series is released

I still don't know what people are talking about... What part specifically, was better? The "animation", as in how the valks moved? Or the textures on the CG models? Because they updated those from the Frontier TV show to the movies, they were cel-shaded on TV and then they got more detailed because of the bigger screen. Maybe it's just that all the action scenes in Delta are too dark to notice?

Commander Molder says they are there at Al-Shahal on Lady M's orders. So unless Mikimo outranks the Commander, he is referring to someone else.

Was discussing with a Japanese fan on Twitter last night. Came to the conclusion that it must be LADY MILIA...THE PRESIDENT! lol

You're missing the obvious:

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

I'm hoping the major shift in tone that's been mentioned for episode 2 is that all the Walkure singers get killed off, leaving us with only stoaway girl (sorry, can't remember her name), as the only singer for the series, leaving room for more Valk on Valk dogfight and less Sailormoon magical girl crap.

But that's most likely wishful thinking.

LOL need Max to come help Mirage w/ her dog fighting

Edited January 2, 2016 by davidwhangchoi

[Tobi54]

That's one of the biggest things I noticed---the 2D and CG do NOT mesh well, not nearly as well as Frontier did it.

That's probably because the episode is not done 100% yet, some stuff looks great, and some stuff doesn't, IMO it's not that it looks worse, it's just that some of the inconsistency makes it distracting. The CG quality is actually better for the shots that you can tell are completed, the little cargo loader sequence looked gorgeous, and you can clearly appreciate not only the better renders, but the improved lighting, if you go back see the lighting on MacF, it looks flat in comparison.

I don't really understand why people are saying the animation is worse than Frontier... Comparing the animation in the first episode of Frontier with this and I clearly see a vast, vast improvement here. Especially character animation in Frontier, if you look at the frames themselves, the line thicknesses hardly vary at all, whereas in Delta they do, which makes a world of difference. Many of the character shots in Frontier were drawn rather roughly, in my opinion, whereas they seem to take more care to draw them in Delta. The way that Frejya moves is also notably well done.

The 2D animation is a clear, clear improvement, I'm also going to say that after watching MacF first EP back to back with Delta, I like the character designs much better in Delta.

Looks to me like it extends, you can see it moving outwards in the final scene.

The CG action was definitely impressive for 2008. The 2D animation, on the other hand... Well, Kyoto Animation had raised the bar so impossibly high with Haruhi, that there was no way Macross Frontier could compete.

The CG for 2008 was very impressive and also why the expectations for Delta are very high, I'll expend on this next.

The Valk animation was far better in Frontier.

However, as has been mentioned, maybe this will be improved a bit by the time the actual series is released

Yes for the sequence prior to the Aerial Knights showing up, it gets much, much better after that, I hated the presentation shot of the Walkure Valks, everything prior to the Aerial Knights fight sequence looked stiff IMO. Hopefully they'll improve this throughout the series, it's been my main concern since noticing the choreographer from Frontier is not working on this.

I looked at the CG from both first episodes of MacF and Delta, and from what I've seen it seems that instead of going cutting edge for Delta in the way Satelight did for Frontier, the production team has decided to go for volume instead -something they struggled with during MacF. The use of CG on the first episode of Delta is much more extensive than anything in the first EP of MacF, and while the CG for MacF looked gorgeous where it was used, it was minimal in comparison, so there's the trade off. This is actually good thing IMO since it could mean we might get more action per episode than we did in MacF.

As far as the show, I did not like the whole sailor moon thing, it was just too much for my taste, but the worst part IMO is the fact that the music is far inferior to anything that came out of the first EP of MacF if you give me something catchy it'll be easier to get thru the whole sailor moon thing but it wasn't the case IMO, Kanno's work on F is a lot better than anything heard on Delta, not just the songs, but the themes as well. The only track I felt was close to be on the same level as MacF music was the last song used on the episode, and again over the credits. I liked the characters much better in Delta than in MacF though, at least so far. I think Delta has a lot of potential, while not pushing the cutting edge as they did with F, it seems that they are going to be very ambitious when it comes to their set pieces as shown on the third act of the episode.

[Renato]

[RedWolf]

Seven did it!

Wait, Frontier had hoverboards?? I don't remember that!

First time we see Alto's high school with Nanase in ep 1 you'll see a guy using a hoverboard at the background leaving the school entrance.

[Macross1982]

Is Hayate's necklace what I think it is??

[Roy Focker]

That was... interesting. It felt like Macross to me, but it also felt like contemporary anime in a lot of the ways that I don't quite enjoy. I'm more a fan of consistent tone in a show with paced segues/flow between levity and seriousness, but this seems like it's going to bounce back and forth jarringly.

Yes and Yes.

Some of us aren't into contemporary anime because we might not actually be fans of "anime."

I've always seen anime as just animated films from Japan. A live action horror film can have an animated version that still represents the genre. Those unfamiliar think of anime as it's own genre. There are some animated programs that seem more anime-like than others. Many fans seem to just love this contemporary anime style that screams "Look at me! I'm another cookie cutter anime that delivers all the modern anime tropes!"

I honesty am not a fan of "anime." I remember the dark days before the Internet when anime was hard to find. When you rented any anime VHS no matter how good or bad the premise was. Any anime was good anime. Now decades later I can say most of it was bad. Give me a good Space Opera that just happens to be animated. Don't give me contemporary anime with all of its tropes that just happens to shares a title with something that was once good.

[RedWolf]

Is Hayate's necklace what I think it is??

If it is I have theory that Hayate isn't from the local neighborhood. His old home could be Frontier.

Mirage being a Jenius has a connection to Max, Milia and Mylene in the Macross 7th fleet.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Mirage being a Jenius has a connection to Max, Milia and Mylene in the Macross 7th fleet.

prob closer to Mylene out of the three. Mirage can't even get her choreography timing down. at least Myene has an excuse, she's a bass player.

[VALKYRIE ACE PILOT]

Trend to be KAWAII is killing not only Macross but also the whole anime. I consider MW as a democratic forum so please avoid replying: «you better go and rewatch Robotech» in an intolerant fashion. I am just seeking the reason Kawamori decided to gradually change Valkyries for Walkuries..Thank you.

[Karaoke Ninja]

Trend to be KAWAII is killing not only Macross but also the whole anime. I consider MW as a democratic forum so please avoid replying: «you better go and rewatch Robotech» in an intolerant fashion. I am just seeking the reason Kawamori decided to gradually change Valkyries for Walkuries..Thank you.

Cute sells and don't act like the original was devoid of this. Minmay's cutesy songs contributed a lot to SDF's popularity.

[Heron]

Trend to be KAWAII is killing not only Macross but also the whole anime. I consider MW as a democratic forum so please avoid replying: «you better go and rewatch Robotech» in an intolerant fashion. I am just seeking the reason Kawamori decided to gradually change Valkyries for Walkuries..Thank you.

I think it's a passion of his in real life. If I'm not mistaken, he is a huge Idol group supporter,especially of AKb48 what with his focus on the anime series AKB0048.

[Gunbuster]

Just saw the preview episode......WTF did I just watched @_@;;

The Valk action was cool, but I don't know about the other stuff.

I promise I will buy all the Valks from this show if Graham's vision comes true.

[VALKYRIE ACE PILOT]

I think it's a passion of his in real life. If I'm not mistaken, he is a huge Idol group supporter,especially of AKb48 what with his focus on the anime series AKB0048. [/quote

OH Really? I see, Maybe Japanese old men differ from us the ones from the rest of the World. I wonder if these japanese design geniouses are also you know, anti criticism people you know the way depicted by Tak Mashido in the real steel robots Movie.

Edited January 2, 2016 by VALKYRIE ACE PILOT

[sketchley]

I still don't know what people are talking about... What part specifically, was better? The "animation", as in how the valks moved? Or the textures on the CG models? Because they updated those from the Frontier TV show to the movies, they were cel-shaded on TV and then they got more detailed because of the bigger screen. Maybe it's just that all the action scenes in Delta are too dark to notice?

IMHO it's that some of the Valkyrie action happens too fast. I get that they want to highlight improvements and show how much the pace of combat has increased, but there are times when the 'hyper-kinetic' combat is visually confusing and unclear (MF also had this problem in some scenes).

Maybe that's what they are complaining about?

[Scream Man]

So I've watched Delta a second time now. Once raw and once with subs. my thoughts:

*I liked it!

*The characters are all distinct and i got a sense for them very quickly. Hayate is a bit to Alto-ish in his "I'm so cool and aloofness" but I like the girls a lot, especially the main mystery girl.

*The mechs look cool! i can't wait to see the Drakens transform, but i love their pop down gunpod and cool looking Ghost Wings! The 31's clearly have a lot going on in different parts of the fighter, and Im intrigued to see more about what they all do! I hope they have landing gear...

*The mystery of who is doing what is intriguing. Is Freya from the same planet as the Knights? is she a non-human species? How are the Knights causing the Var? Or are they just taking advantage? Does the Var only affect Zentradi? How does Walkure reverse the affects?

*I liked both of the songs. Certainly more than I liked a lot of Sheryl or Ranka's at first.

All in all I am very ready for more! Great opening!

i am gonna be so broke buying all those fighters....

[aaajin]

Go watch more Robotech because Macross isn't for you.

Guess most of us oldies (I'm in my early 30's, not sure if that's 'old' relative to the Macross community ) could still tolerate Frontier, despite all the hologram girls in battle scenes (Zero/Plus had it but Frontier was more prevalent)...but wardrobe-changing-sailormoons? really? Delta is pushing it, ... way over the top for me. The episode wasnt too bad, not until the sailormoon scenes.

It got stupid in the SECOND season?? You know that right from the start there is a talking bear that works at the cafeteria, right?

You guys discussing about Sidonia made me realized I had forgotten to watch the 2nd season, despite watching the 1st episode when it aired! Gotta catch up with that (tho the manga has also ended).

This may sound out of place, but all in all, I am glad Gundam Thunderbolt made its apprearance (manga was good), right when all hope is lost for a gritty, good story-line & characters building, mecha anime. And the fact that I forgot to watch Knights of Sidonia Season 2.

Edited January 2, 2016 by aaajin