Macross Δ (Delta) - NYE Special Talkback - READ 1st POST

[kajnrig]

My father (and mother, and basically everyone who wasn't born in the States) didn't have birth certificates or keep written records, so when asked by refugee/US importation agents, he had to make up a birthday. His was 1960, meaning he was ~10-15 when he was fighting in Vietnam.

[RedWolf]

Theory:

Delta is set at the Outer Rim and according to Egan Loo's Macross Chronology 2000 years after the fall of the Stellar Republic there were still Protoculture colony fleets, colony bunches, planets and outposts at the edge of the galaxy.

The reason why the Survey Ship seeded Earth with a virus that modified Human ancestors was that the Protoculture later intended to colonize Earth.

After the war the Protoculture's numbers still continue to decline. I'm beginning to suspect the reason for seeding Sub-Protoculture races was to supplement the Protoculture's own reproduction as they are capable of bearing hybrids.

Why not cloning? As seen with the continued use of cloning by Humans heredity problems will crop up. In DYRL the Protoculture resorted to cloning resulting to a gender war between them. Cloning has its pitfalls. Sub-Protoculture races are probably meant as breeding stock.

Edited February 3, 2016 by RedWolf

[JB0]

Well, we also know from Macross 7 that at least one Protoculture facility was programmed to look for zentradi hybrids and grant access to the facilities only in the presence of one.

Which means that at least one group of protoculture desired to see a reunification between the PC and their warriors. One would assume they carried a similar attitude towards other engineered races, since Mylene's status as a zentradi-human hybrid instead of a zentradi-PC hybrid was not an issue.

So not everyone viewed them as simple breeding stock.

Edited February 3, 2016 by JB0

[Rbstr]

Logically, if the Protoculture was concerned with their dwindling numbers and wanted to increase genetic diversity in order to perpetuate their culture/society I don't think the term "breeding stock" really makes sense.

Wouldn't you want the engineered individuals to be part of society then?

Or are you going to like kidnap some of them and forcibly breed proto/engineered pairs and then keep the kids in civilization? That's a pretty ethically fraught route.

The term would make more sense if they were trying to make more biological "tools" like Zentradi.

[Zinjo]

Theory:

Delta is set at the Outer Rim and according to Egan Loo's Macross Chronology 2000 years after the fall of the Stellar Republic there were still Protoculture colony fleets, colony bunches, planets and outposts at the edge of the galaxy.

The reason why the Survey Ship seeded Earth with a virus that modified Human ancestors was that the Protoculture later intended to colonize Earth.

After the war the Protoculture's numbers still continue to decline. I'm beginning to suspect the reason for seeding Sub-Protoculture races was to supplement the Protoculture's own reproduction as they are capable of bearing hybrids.

Why not cloning? As seen with the continued use of cloning by Humans heredity problems will crop up. In DYRL the Protoculture resorted to cloning resulting to a gender war between them. Cloning has its pitfalls. Sub-Protoculture races are probably meant as breeding stock.

Humanity was engineered with a virus?

Humanity experienced birth defects after a while, but I am not sure the Zentradi did. The Zentradi were a purpose engineered race with many specific attributes for their particular role, so I am not sure if cloning had the same negative affect on that species. The PC's genome may well be too complex to efficiently clone individuals in mass numbers and perhaps due to that complexity extensive cloning was not a viable option?

Edited February 3, 2016 by Zinjo

[Axelay]

I finally got to see an English sub of this. Let me say straight off that I am a huge fan of Macross 7. Delta, though...? It's difficult for me to contain my dislike of this. Whoever thought that infusing Sailor Moon into Macross was a good idea needs to never have anything to do with anime ever again. With what little I've seen, I just can't even take this series seriously. For as dedicated a Macross fan as I have been for years, this may truly be the curtain call for me.

[Saruta]

Humanity experienced birth defects after a while, but I am not sure the Zentradi did.

Where's the source for the birth defects? I seem to have missed something.

I finally got to see an English sub of this. Let me say straight off that I am a huge fan of Macross 7. Delta, though...? It's difficult for me to contain my dislike of this. Whoever thought that infusing Sailor Moon into Macross was a good idea needs to never have anything to do with anime ever again. With what little I've seen, I just can't even take this series seriously. For as dedicated a Macross fan as I have been for years, this may truly be the curtain call for me.

I don't think the infusion was necessarily Sailor Moon itself, and I suspect it was Madoka, at least to the point of the idea of deconstructing magical girls.

Or at least I hope that the deconstruction, which has already started with freeze-frame mech implements, is going to proceed apace. Im not sure it will get AS "hardcore" as Madoka; this is Kawamori and the most light-hearted post-apocalypse franchise ever...

Edited February 3, 2016 by Saruta

[RedWolf]

Humanity was engineered with a virus?

In SDF Macross episode 31 Satan's Dolls Global's answer whether Humans were created like the Zentradi by the Protoculture is that he didn't think so. Yeah well you have fossil evidence on one side and the Zentradi genome on the other.

The answer comes in Macross Zero where Dr. Hasford's Protoculture theory states that Human primate ancestors were modified by a virus so that Humans would evolve in its present form. Of course the good doctor went insane wanting humanity wiped out and the Bird Human create a new race in our place. He's smart but stupid in thinking he has all the answers as he doesn't know about the Survey Ship that seeded Earth but was blown up on the way back home. Global didn't have that piece of data at the time due to it being classified and the mess Earth went through.

Zolans had similar circumstances only they evolved from marsupials. Writers of the Zomeo and Zuliet radio drama would like to think while Humans and Zolans can have sex they can't have children. Only to confirm in Macross Frontier they can like Humans and Zentradi do have hybrid children.

Where's the source for the birth defects? I seem to have missed something.

http://macross.anime.net/wiki/2030

December

• Because of the increase in hereditary children's diseases due to the overuse of cloning, mass cloning is terminated.

Basically without the Westermarck effect in play Genetic Sexual Attraction happens where close relatives are sexually attracted to each other with them having sex and children. Either that or they keep producing the same clones that they are vulnerable to the same diseases. Like what happened with the Potato famine as potatoes were clones of each other.

Hence hereditary diseases are more likely.

Edited February 4, 2016 by RedWolf

[JB0]

Yeah, basically it was a problem with inbreeding, not with cloning PER SE. Since the zentradi, prior to "culturization" weren't breeding, there were no problems with inbreeding.

[valkyriechild]

Well, at least from now on we would be able to see more VF to VF combat from these conflicts between humans and/or sub-protoculture species.
Weapons race will never stop.

[bgunit]

can someone translate please

https://m.facebook.com/loopaza/photos/pcb.1057753140952867/1057752654286249/?type=3&source=48

[Tochiro]

can someone translate please

https://m.facebook.com/loopaza/photos/pcb.1057753140952867/1057752654286249/?type=3&source=48

At that resolution? lol.

Any new important info will have been picked up over in the Delta news thread, Im sure :-)

[RedWolf]

I've been reading the Macross Frontier Japanese Wikipedia page saying the Protoculture figured out to create Artificial Fold Quartz citing the Macross Chronicle Worldguide on the Vajra which I also checked.

Given the Var syndrome song maiden has purple stuff around her we can assume it is Fold Quartz. Given the Aerial Knights don't have G-suits we can assume the SV-262 Draken also has Fold Quartz equipped ISC.

So presumably Windermere has its own Protoculture ruins where the Kingdom of Wind gets theirs.

This being the Outer Rim and the mention of Protoculture remnants 2000 years after the fall of the Stellar Republic increases those chances.

Worst case scenario the Kingdom of Wind figured out how to create Fold Quartz from Fold Ore learning from the Protoculture.

[Zinjo]

I've been reading the Macross Frontier Japanese Wikipedia page saying the Protoculture figured out to create Artificial Fold Quartz citing the Macross Chronicle Worldguide on the Vajra which I also checked.

Given the Var syndrome song maiden has purple stuff around her we can assume it is Fold Quartz. Given the Aerial Knights don't have G-suits we can assume the SV-262 Draken also has Fold Quartz equipped ISC.

So presumably Windermere has its own Protoculture ruins where the Kingdom of Wind gets theirs.

This being the Outer Rim and the mention of Protoculture remnants 2000 years after the fall of the Stellar Republic increases those chances.

Worst case scenario the Kingdom of Wind figured out how to create Fold Quartz from Fold Ore learning from the Protoculture.

The artificial fold quartz could be a source of the virus (like superman's kryptonite). It would also explain how original Zentradi ships seemed capable of effortless folds and then when humanity began building fold engines, they began to struggle with fold faults.

[RedWolf]

The artificial fold quartz could be a source of the virus (like superman's kryptonite). It would also explain how original Zentradi ships seemed capable of effortless folds and then when humanity began building fold engines, they began to struggle with fold faults.

Nah Fold Quartz Space Folds are zero time lags. In SDFM 10 hours of Space Fold is something like 10 days real time. This is why they had to readjust clocks in MF.

Like Earth with military tech the Protoculture reserves the best for themselves. They actually nerfed Humans' Space Time Resonance Ability as only a select few bloodlines can regenerate the Bird Human.

Edited February 6, 2016 by RedWolf

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

Saw the demo first episode.

whoa this is starting to really go back to macross zero levels of magic again. Remember the floating rocks and the shamanic priestess levitating and the phoenix valkyre rising from the sea?

I think of this new show as the public usage of that but more with science than magic.

Face it the two things are starting to converge. If they itroduce another ghostbusters-like mad scientist this could be renamed the official "macross 7 II"

What would be interesting is if the magic girls were in fact cyborgs so they don't care about danger as they can upload their consciousness to backup bodies. Unlike Basara they can die each episode in horrific ways for humour but they come back again in new body to show that thier songs will live on long after they die.

Boomerang microdrones could be brainwave controlled and act like extensions of their own body. So they have direct connection to machines and move with quick reflexes to any danger and this allows for complex group formation. The skills that basara needed as a human are like second nature to cyborg now because of the new technology.

If mac 7 was about healing people and inspiring them to create something for themselves so they don't eed to leech of other people like parasites, and macross plus is about doing things that have never been done before and taking risks to not be a derivative person who just copies existing things like the AI machines which have no soul, ...then I think delta will be about tolerating differences in cultures and the co-existence of different philosophy in how to fight against the hatred people have for each other. Sometimes there simply isn't a bad guy and it's all just your imagination so you become the enemy you claim to be fighting against. Just because something is different, and that different thing is not liked by you, does not mean it's bad. For all we know the var outbreak might be something beneficial to some people while negative to others since how we react to things is different.

We are all unique in how we consume culture. You might hate loud music and see it as offensive and harmful to you (perhaps the lyrics of the author of the music are opinions you don't agree with) while others feel energised by it if they need to let off steam and the music gives them thier fix which prevents them from becoming violent.

You may not like porn and find it offensive but those who are single with no prospects of finding a date are going to use porn to get off on the perverse in order to get some release without which might turn a pervert into a rapist. You may not like violence but violence is necessary to protect innocent people. All things which are seen as negatives to you could be positives to others. You may not like the thing you consume, but that doesn't mean its bad. It's ok to personally hate something but it should not be an excuse to destroy it. Perhaps you change your opinion over time and change? And like a zentradi, an awakening happens in you and you understand the other perspective and your views about something are not the same anymore? It could be about tolerating others rather than winning. (maybe have both sides kill each other off as a twist to all other macross shows beforehand and this leads into the reason the humans were alreay fighting wars on earth long before the aliens ever came to earth. That humans still can't get along with each other. So who are we to assume we are actually "good" when we were killing ourselves on earth so none of the old problems that happened on earth (way back at the beginning of SDF M when we were fighting global wars) were solved when we started to colonise other planets in space?

Just because humans left earth and went into space that doesn't mean all those old problems of intolerance for differences in culture, race, etc and the natural greed to want to control others....were solved when we were given awesome technology. In fact it would only magnify those old traits of humans. And so the 3 way wars idea would be a great way to explain this. There are no purely good guys, just different perspectives. And the fighting is just disagreements in who is best rather than for bringing about peace. The only survivors would be the outsider, the apathetic ones who can look at this from a non-biased viewpoint because they have no stake in any of it. Sort of like the comedian george carlin lol. The main character who is happy just living his life doing whatever he feels like for himself without any selfish ambition or desire to outdo others and measure his dick with others is the anti hero. He doesn't matter. He is just the cannon fodder with lots of luck who happened to be in the right places at the right times rather than because he is the most skilled. (the anti thesis of macross where we like skilled pilots like Max Jenius because he is so good) The cannon fodder gets no love in any macross show, but this guy would be a cannon fodder who just fights to survive the crazy things all the anime characters around him do. (he's us - we don't care about pop idols, celebrity gossip, fashion or love triangle because the formula is stale but we accept it as the backbone of macross existence lol)

The magical girls are the true heroes while the cannon fodder is the sidekick and only out of boredom does he decide to go along as unemployed guys with no skills are really not in a position to choose. And that's it. He's that ace pilot that rose up in the ranks because all the good pilots died killing each other and what was left were crap enemy pilots for average joes to fight. Due to constant fighting there was a massive skills drain as the best pilots are all dead - this would be a first for macross where the best and most skilled don't actually live - it would satisfy the thirst everyone had to see characters like Basara in macross 7 ACTUALLY DIE and not have plot armor protecting them every single episode

Edited February 6, 2016 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[arbit]

I watched it so you don't have to. First ep of AKB0048 is exactly the same plot as Delta preview.

Spolier Alert: Young stowaway girl in search of favorite idol band.

But now that I am fully fortified by a kiddy idol group show, perhaps Delta will be easier to digest.

[JB0]

I watched it so you don't have to. First ep of AKB0048 is exactly the same plot as Delta preview.

Spolier Alert: Young stowaway girl in search of favorite idol band.

But now that I am fully fortified by a kiddy idol group show, perhaps Delta will be easier to digest.

As I recall, AKB0048 also had music being illegal. And I didn't watch past the first episode because it was so godawful terrible, mechs or no mechs.

What can I say, I just had no interest in watching Revolution X: The Animated Series.

[McFly!!]

with all the recent pics from wonderfest, i can't wait to see the valks in action! =) where's that fold-enabled space-time fast forward button?!

[Einherjar]

...

Huh?

[Raptor One]

Huh?

Lol started reading the post before I noticed the poster, got three paragraphs in before I was like "I bet this is LowViz Lurker"

[Einherjar]

Lol started reading the post before I noticed the poster, got three paragraphs in before I was like "I bet this is LowViz Lurker"

Gotta admit though, the part about a cannon fodder sounds like a good story.

[VF-15 Banshee]

According to Hayate's pay slip here, the date is April 20, 2067. Hmm, wonder if that's the real-life air date since they already said it'd air in April?

[JB0]

According to Hayate's pay slip here, the date is April 20, 2067. Hmm, wonder if that's the real-life air date since they already said it'd air in April?

vlcsnap-2016-02-08-02h03m06s753.png

I hope it isn't. I don't want to wait fifty-one years and two months.

[McFly!!]

4/20! Ahahaha!

[Tochiro]

Random tidbit.

I took a peek at the fansubs that I believe people have been watching and noticed an omission.

When replying to Hayate, Mirage identifies herself as a member of what I believe is supposed to be 'Chaos.'
She identifies this before saying she is in Delta squadron, meaning that Chaos would be the larger, over-arching organisation.

The thing that threw me off in Japanese is that she says ケイオス, when chaos is more commonly spelled カオス.

The spelling was confirmed in Mikumo's updated profile yesterday (but not the nature of what the word actually means or is referring to).
I'll keep the name as Chaos for now, although it could change to Keios or Kaos depending on how the official settings documents decide to spell it.
I have hunch that more will be revealed in episode two as to what or who Chaos actually is.
Is it, for example, 'Lady M' the leader of Chaos?
Only time will tell, I suppose.

(Incidentally, this is also why I always advise that fan-subs be taken with a grain of salt. Not only are the translaters language skills often suspect, but most times specialised words and language get mistranslated or omitted simply because their meaning cannot really be known without further knowledge of the plot or official settings documents).

Edited February 10, 2016 by Tochiro

[JB0]

Random tidbit.

I took a peek at the fansubs that I believe people have been watching and noticed an omission.

...

(Incidentally, this is also why I always advise that fan-subs be taken with a grain of salt. Not only are the translaters language skills often suspect, but most times specialised words and language get mistranslated or omitted simply because their meaning cannot really be known without further knowledge of the plot or official settings documents).

I've seen two separate fansubs of the episode. One is from people who appeared quite familiar with the franchise, but were having a lot of fun with their subs.

The other is from people who were trying to be more "straight", but honestly I was pretty sure they had no familiarity with Macross whatsoever.

Just as a side note. I found neither translation to be what I would consider trustworthy.

[technoblue]

Errors in unofficial (or fansub) translations are a given. I see this as another opportunity for Satelight to provide official "sanctioned" translations. Even with the current market/legal issues, it should be something that's foremost on the minds of fans outside of Japan. And when they finally figure out a way to do it (without invoking that which should not be named) Macross will have passed its biggest hurdle.

[Cloris]

Random tidbit.

I took a peek at the fansubs that I believe people have been watching and noticed an omission.

When replying to Hayate, Mirage identifies herself as a member of what I believe is supposed to be 'Chaos.'

She identifies this before saying she is in Delta squadron, meaning that Chaos would be the larger, over-arching organisation.

The thing that threw me off in Japanese is that she says ケイオス, when chaos is more commonly spelled カオス.

The spelling was confirmed in Mikumo's updated profile yesterday (but not the nature of what the word actually means or is referring to).

I'll keep the name as Chaos for now, although it could change to Keios or Kaos depending on how the official settings documents decide to spell it.

I have hunch that more will be revealed in episode two as to what or who Chaos actually is.

Is it, for example, 'Lady M' the leader of Chaos?

Only time will tell, I suppose.

(Incidentally, this is also why I always advise that fan-subs be taken with a grain of salt. Not only are the translaters language skills often suspect, but most times specialised words and language get mistranslated or omitted simply because their meaning cannot really be known without further knowledge of the plot or official settings documents).

Speaking of which, you can see 'chaos' written in Greek on her VF.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Cloris

[Tochiro]

Speaking of which, you can see 'chaos' written in Greek on her VF.

Nice catch!

So now I guess the big mystery is what exactly Chaos is.

Interesting.

[JB0]

Errors in unofficial (or fansub) translations are a given.

So are errors in official translations, sadly.

Seen way too many of those done by someone who doesn't care, or has someone above determined to crap the work up.

[seti88]

Nice catch!

So now I guess the big mystery is what exactly Chaos is.

Interesting.

I thk wmkjr mentioned in the toys vf-31 thread abt google translating the vf31 promo diagram into

For the Delta valks from the bottom left : "Chaos Ragna 3rd fighter wing Delta platoon". Middle is "VF-31 Delta platoon is of the type that specializes in joint operations with the tactical music unit Walkure, different from the so-called normal mass production specification machine. Of improving atmosphere mobility is the main feature.

Perhaps a better translation is available from the diagram of all the vf-31s with their designations.

[mickyg]

Speaking of which, you can see 'chaos' written in Greek on her VF.

Nice! I had seen that before but completely forgot about it. It's quite prominent, too.

I also like how the thing that we're all assuming is some sort of gunpod, actually aims the right direction when the "multi purpose pod" is stowed in fighter mode. It's a much more streamlined representation of that which we're all so familiar with in all Macross Valks.

[McFly!!]

And I'm pretty sure onigiri aren't Japanese doughnuts

[Tochiro]

I thk wmkjr mentioned in the toys vf-31 thread abt google translating the vf31 promo diagram into

For the Delta valks from the bottom left : "Chaos Ragna 3rd fighter wing Delta platoon". Middle is "VF-31 Delta platoon is of the type that specializes in joint operations with the tactical music unit Walkure, different from the so-called normal mass production specification machine. Of improving atmosphere mobility is the main feature.

Perhaps a better translation is available from the diagram of all the vf-31s with their designations.

The interesting thing being that Mikumo is mentioned as being a part of Chaos as well.

So, is Chaos basically the Anaheim Of Macross that funds it's in Valk Squad and controls Walkure?

So many tantalizing mysteries :-)