Macross Δ (Delta) - NYE Special Talkback - READ 1st POST

[Raptor One]

Pro tip: The odds of you ever being the only person to feel a certain way are very, VERY low

[GabrielV]

By comparison, we've seen what happens when "visionaries" take the idols out of the equation altogether to make something more gritty and American.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/a-brief-history-of-5-failed-robotech-sequels-1608968158

Man, that sidebar recommendation in the above link.

Well, I'd say the problem is more that Harmony Gold never follows through on anything rather than any particular necessity of idol girls. Maybe if Harmony Gold ever DID anything and didn't stop halfway through then something might happen. No, I'm not really defending them. I'm completely sick of Harmony Gold at this point too and desperately want to see them go bankrupt and lose their license somehow.

Anyway, Macross Delta first preview episode:

I watched it without any subs. I just had to infer what was going on.

I strongly disliked Freya on the first viewing. Hayate's mad skillz completely beyond the piloting ability of any character I've seen in the franchise also irritated me, but he was effectively a non-entity otherwise.

Since the first half of the show was all about them, I didn't like the first half. On rewatching, they weren't as irritating, but they still weren't particularly likeable.

In the second half, I liked what I perceived as a distinct not to Macross II and the emulator preistesses. The panning shot up the stairway thing even reminded me of an Alus Nova.

I loved the VF-31s. I will have to get one of those when the toys are released. Seeing Regults was also extremely cool. The mecha action was fairly neat. It was cool just to see new footage of variable fighters doing things.

As for the magical girl stuff, I'm not sure what I think. Something about it rubs me the wrong way, but I'm just not entirely sure what I think about it in a broader sense. It's clear the purple haired idol singer is the nearly supernatural one and the others are vastly lesser skilled.

When I first watched the show I was ready to give up on the franchise. After watching the music video into the ground (I like that song), and rewatching the episode a couple of times, I'm markedly less negative, but still not sure.

[Raptor One]

Hayate's mad skillz completely beyond the piloting ability of any character I've seen in the franchise

Lol what?

[GabrielV]

Lol what?

He's dancing around in a clumsy loader mech. You really don't see that level of agility except in experienced pilots like Max, Isamu, and Guld, and then only in significantly more agile machines. And Hayate can only be assumed to be a self trained novice at this point.

Edit: And to be clear. If no one else agrees, that's fine. But it definitely was my impression when watching the show that Hayate's piloting skill was being way oversold.

Edited January 14, 2016 by GabrielV

[Einherjar]

He's dancing around in a clumsy loader mech. You really don't see that level of agility except in experienced pilots like Max, Isamu, and Guld, and then only in significantly more agile machines. And Hayate can only be assumed to be a self trained novice at this point.

I agree. You should buy a copy of Macross the First and see who they got to pilot an early military version of that mech.

[Raptor One]

Not seeing it. Don't get me wrong, he's clearly being depicted as being uncommonly skilled. But there are tons of other Macross characters who could have done the same thing.

Also, this is how many dozen generations removed from the original destroids? You're assuming the machine doesn't have the capability for that level of acrobatics but there's no reason to assume that. It's far more likely that no one else bothers to put it to that kind of use.

You're telling me rookie Max from SDFM couldn't have hopped into that machine and pulled even more impressive moves?

I dunno, I just don't see this huge gap in skill you're talking about. It's a fun scene meant to show that Hayate's a better mecha operator than a regular dock worker would be expected to be, and to help justify or foreshadow his inevitable ability to get into a Valkyrie and not be completely useless.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Raptor One

[Gubaba]

You're telling me rookie Max from SDFM couldn't have hopped into that machine and pulled even more impressive moves?

Yes, I think that's what Einherjar was hinting at.

[RedWolf]

To me Hayate is a Basara type without passion and optimism. The talent is there but he is still looking for his place in the universe.

[Einherjar]

Well, I'd say the problem is more that Harmony Gold never follows through on anything rather than any particular necessity of idol girls.

Very true. A more accurate and painful example would be the novels, but that would have been too depressing. Poor, poor Minmei.

You're telling me rookie Max from SDFM couldn't have hopped into that machine and pulled even more impressive moves?

I really hope you saw the manga before writing this.

[Bolt]

To me Hayate is a Basara type without passion and optimism. The talent is there but he is still looking for his place in the universe.

Not sure about that ( just to jump on the conjecture wagon)

He seems more Alto to me. With talent but unimpressed by the idol(s) and looking for his place..

Anyhoo all the basic ingredients are in place now..

Basara is more Alpha by far..

Edited January 15, 2016 by Bolt

[RedWolf]

Not sure about that ( just to jump on the conjecture wagon)

He seems more Alto to me. With talent but unimpressed by the idol(s) and looking for his place..

Anyhoo all the basic ingredients are in place now..

Basara is more Alpha by far..

Thing is with Alto he knows what he wants,a Sky!

[Bolt]

True enough.

[Raptor One]

Which is why the triangle in the Macross F series ended with AltoxSky

[kajnrig]

Which is why the triangle in the Macross F series ended with AltoxSky

I'd fap to that.

...what?

[Zinjo]

Not seeing it. Don't get me wrong, he's clearly being depicted as being uncommonly skilled. But there are tons of other Macross characters who could have done the same thing.

Also, this is how many dozen generations removed from the original destroids? You're assuming the machine doesn't have the capability for that level of acrobatics but there's no reason to assume that. It's far more likely that no one else bothers to put it to that kind of use.

You're telling me rookie Max from SDFM couldn't have hopped into that machine and pulled even more impressive moves?

I dunno, I just don't see this huge gap in skill you're talking about. It's a fun scene meant to show that Hayate's a better mecha operator than a regular dock worker would be expected to be, and to help justify or foreshadow his inevitable ability to get into a Valkyrie and not be completely useless.

I still want to see a NUNS marine squad with next gen destroids that are at least another design other than the Cheyenne.

It may be a pipe dream, but it's my pipe dream...

[RedWolf]

I still want to see a NUNS marine squad with next gen destroids that are at least another design other than the Cheyenne.

It may be a pipe dream, but it's my pipe dream...

Macross the Ride has the Super Defender MK-XV.

A modern Destroid mix squad would probably have this, the Cheyenne II and the VB-6 Konig Monster.

There is also the Gjagravan-Va which I consider a Destroid even if it was a Zentradi rebel mech.

[Zinjo]

Macross the Ride has the Super Defender MK-XV.

ADR-04-Mk XV Super Defender.jpg

A modern Destroid mix squad would probably have this, the Cheyenne II and the VB-6 Konig Monster.

There is also the Gjagravan-Va which I consider a Destroid even if it was a Zentradi rebel mech.

gjagravan-va.jpg

I keep hoping for a gunpod toting Spartan!

[frothymug]

Took me a very long time to read through all of this, but I wanted to at least throw my two cent's worth in.

I watched Mission 0.89 over a week ago, so it's had time to set in. I didn't like it, overall. I have the same complaints as everyone else who didn't quite enjoy it. I think that Kotaku article you guys are hating on really does encapsulate most of my feelings towards the preview episode. I watched it with my girlfriend, who has watched Frontier, Plus, and Zero with me. She likes Frontier, but even she was laughing at Delta and apologizing to me for how bad she thought it was. I couldn't defend it.

I'm still looking forward to seeing what the series brings and I hope that things get explained, as several people have mentioned already. I just get such a Macross 7 vibe from it, and I wasn't a big fan of that series either. The dogfight scene was awesome and remains the sole glimmer of hope for this series. However, the magical girl aspect was just too much. Also, there are too many damn characters and to have been introduced to pretty much all of them so quickly makes this episode seem like a giant cluster-F. I feel like this episode leaves science fiction and strays too far into science fantasy. I love Macross because it's considered to be a real robot show, while I very much dislike super robots. I am reminded of Arthur C. Clarke's Third Law, where this technology is apparently too advanced to be distinguished from magic.

Oh, and Mikumo is best waifu.

[UN Spacy]

I agree with Zinjo...getting kinda tired of the Cheyenne. It would be nice if they introduced some new (possibly variable) Destroids into Delta.

[sketchley]

I agree with Zinjo...getting kinda tired of the Cheyenne. It would be nice if they introduced some new (possibly variable) Destroids into Delta.

I don't think that they will - it's a background mecha that fills all of the roles of the Destroids in SDFM (sans the Monster, but we all know what that turned into ). Nevertheless, I like that they appeared - as their design makes more sense for urban warfare, and it is one of the ques that this new series is a Macross series.

[RedWolf]

I agree with Zinjo...getting kinda tired of the Cheyenne. It would be nice if they introduced some new (possibly variable) Destroids into Delta.

Next gen Octos? Chuck looks like from an ocean planet.

[Roy Focker]

Also, there are too many damn characters and to have been introduced to pretty much all of them so quickly makes this episode seem like a giant cluster-F.

That is the most legitimate complaint of all. Whether you like or dislike the magic girl elements of the show there was just too many characters groups introduced for one pilot episode. They could easily split it up and made 3 separate coherent episodes with all the material they shoved in there.

[Jasonc]

There was a lot of characters introduced, or more accurately, shown. There weren't too many that had a prominent, active role in it, but with all the action and sequences going on, even for those, it did seem like a lot. With that said, I'm pretty sure that there will be more specific episodes to follow. What has made Macross an easy franchise to attach to, has many times been the characters. I don't see how they'd do that differently here. The characters and their interaction have always been primary, and the interactions of them in relationships, music, and mecha are what bind it all to the franchise.

[Sildani]

That is the most legitimate complaint of all. Whether you like or dislike the magic girl elements of the show there was just too many characters groups introduced for one pilot episode. They could easily split it up and made 3 separate coherent episodes with all the material they shoved in there.

Well, it WAS a pilot/preview episode, so I'm sure they'll do as you suggest.

[Tochiro]

Well, it WAS a pilot/preview episode, so I'm sure they'll do as you suggest.

That's not really how preview episodes work. The final version will have footage added, not removed f^_^

[Gubaba]

That's not really how preview episodes work. The final version will have footage added, not removed f^_^

It'll probably have a few bits removed... It has to stay at 25 minutes, after all. And then the BD will include the "full" version. Just like Frontier...

On a previous topic, I don't get the complaints about there being too many characters, really. They're still grouped together: four members of Walküre, four pilots for those four members. The focus is definitely still on Hayate and Freyja and Mirage and Mikumo.

Maybe adding the Aerial Knights was a bit too much, but we know these six guys are members of a team.

No one complains when Lord of the Rings debuts all nine Nazgul at the same time (good Lord! We're less than half an hour into the movie! And there's NINE new characters!), because we understand that they're a group. I don't think anyone was confused about who was a pilot for which faction, or which girls were in Walküre and which weren't. No, we don't know what their personalities are (mostly), or what the Aerial Knights are trying to accomplish, but that's the kind of mystery that's meant to be EXCITING.

Whether it is or not, of course, is up to your personal taste, but by grouping all the characters into a few different factions, I think they sidestepped most confusion.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Gubaba

[VF5SS]

Even the original SDF Macross introduced like nine characters in the first episode. Imagine if you only got to watch that and didn't get the second episode until months later. For the original show the first two episodes are closely associated because of how they aired back to back, so I understand not being able to look back and see how even then it could be confusing to new viewers.

[Gubaba]

Even the original SDF Macross introduced like nine characters in the first episode. Imagine if you only got to watch that and didn't get the second episode until months later. For the original show the first two episodes are closely associated because of how they aired back to back, so I understand not being able to look back and see how even then it could be confusing to new viewers.

Excellent point.

[Jasonc]

I strongly believe most feel that it was crammed due to the rush of wanting to see it and the anticipation. It was after the second watch I got rid of all the anxious feeling and anticipation, that it became much easier to not be overwhelmed with anything else. As I mentioned elsewhere (the Delta NYE episode thread) it really only concentrates on a small handful of active characters. It feels like there's a lot going on, but in reality, there isn't.

I really hope that made sense.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Jasonc

[RedWolf]

Know what the VF-171 is getting again a bad rap like in Macross Frontier I wonder if they'll surprise us on the return of a certain ace named... Machida

Imagine it a VF-171 PPB punching them Drakens and their drones.

[Zinjo]

I don't think that they will - it's a background mecha that fills all of the roles of the Destroids in SDFM (sans the Monster, but we all know what that turned into ). Nevertheless, I like that they appeared - as their design makes more sense for urban warfare, and it is one of the ques that this new series is a Macross series.

Unfortunately you are right. If the story doesn't support battle destroids then there is no need to design them. Even a Marine unit would have Cheyennes as they are a flexible destroid platform.

[UN Spacy]

Has Ikenai Borderline been getting any play on the radio in Japan?

I wonder who's gonna perform the OP...can't wait for the next single.

[Tochiro]

Has Ikenai Borderline been getting any play on the radio in Japan?

I wonder who's gonna perform the OP...can't wait for the next single.

It hit No.1 in the anime category on iTunes on Dec 31 and No.7 overall. It also charted very high on Amazons digital music service. Ive heard it in shops but that's because said shops were promoting Delta.

[Zinjo]

I strongly believe most feel that it was crammed due to the rush of wanting to see it and the anticipation. It was after the second watch I got rid of all the anxious feeling and anticipation, that it became much easier to not be overwhelmed with anything else. As I mentioned elsewhere (the Delta NYE episode thread) it really only concentrates on a small handful of active characters. It feels like there's a lot going on, but in reality, there isn't.

I really hope that made sense.

When you watch it more than once, the jumble makes sense and you do see the groupings.

VF5SS has a good point, if this aired and the second episode aired the next week, I'm sure no one would be making the comment about the number of characters introduced.

[Tochiro]

Alright guys, its been almost 3 weeks since the Delta special aired. It seems like everyone has a lot of opinions so now it's time to RECORD THEM!

Yes, i'm currently putting together that previously mentioned compilation podcast of fans reactions to Delta.

So far we have 3 submissions but need MORE!

Think you can talk for 5 - 10 mins about Delta? Well, send us an audio recording!

Please send your mp3's to speakerpod@gmail.com.
If you are having any problems, drop us a line in the podcast thread or else PM me.

Deadline for submissions is next Monday - January 26!

Looking forward to hearing everyones impressions!