Macross Δ (Delta) - NYE Special Talkback - READ 1st POST

[Vifam7]

But who is flying Delta 05 then?

Oh, right... you have a point there...

[sharky]

Hmmm...

Just wondering... What's the chance of Hayate NOT becoming a Valkyrie pilot?

Maybe he becomes a producer for the Walkure girls?

My guess is 0.00001%

[kajnrig]

^2nd for Team Makina.

Curveball - it'll be Makina/Freyja.

[Scyla]

Oh, right... you have a point there...

I think it would be pretty cool if we get a badass manager/produce like Coach from Gunbuster.

[Zinjo]

Well, I can't imagine integrating the zentradi into human society was a remotely smooth process after their brothers were responsible for armageddon, and there is PROBABLY some very-recently-buried racial resentment you don't want to stir back up.

So... segregating the zentradi away from the proper humans because they MIGHT be prone to violence... that couldn't possibly upset any of the giant men with guns in the slightest. As long as they build separate facilities that are equal to the ones the proper humans enjoy, of course.

But what about the half-zentradi, and the quarter-zentradi, and so on? What percentage do they have to be before they stop being greenies, I mean vulnerable to var syndrome? Better to just treat anyone with ANY zentradi blood as if they were full-blooded zentradi and ban everyone with any zentradi in their family tree from entering the city limits. For their own protection, of course.

I wouldn't mind seeing someone TRY IT, but... it'd be a really bad idea.

Yeah, Internment camps and the like. That has worked so very well for humanity, historically...

Human purity it the most important thing, all other races are inferior...

<Smell that? That's sarcasm>

[Zinjo]

I’ve seen Macross Delta and wanted a few days to let it sink in, to avoid any knee-jerk reaction. Having done so, I have to give Kawamori and Co. credit for changing up Macross despite the fact that I’m not really connecting with this new series.

I see a lot of hate for Macross Delta online, which I suppose is just the reality of the internet. I certainly don’t think it deserves such a reaction, though given the demographics of the internet’s loudest, I can’t say I’m surprised. But I can honestly say that if Delta weren’t a Macross production, it’s not something I would seek out. Even for an eclectic viewer like myself, I’ve found the first episode of Macross Delta too far afield of my tastes. I wasn’t laughing when the show prompted, I wasn’t entertained by the music, I found the way the story was presented unengaging and sadly I’ve little invested in any of the characters, save perhaps Freyja and Hayate. And I have to say I find Freyja’s passion more compelling than Hayate’s apathy. Of course I'm committed to watching it all, but not afraid to say I’m a little underwhelmed thus far.

What I did like in Macross Delta was the character animation. I never liked the blocky, stacatto character animation in Macross Frontier and Macross Zero; Macross Delta feels much more fluid and just more attractive. I think the CGI animation is in top form here in Delta (though the detailing and textures look rough) and I enjoyed the staging and motion of all the CGI work, especially Hayate’s Destroid Work-dance sequence (a clever way to show us he’s clearly talented controlling a mecha by way of a fun sequence that also introduces Freyja). For mechanical design, the show borrows heavily from Macross Frontier (not necessarily a bad thing), but the VF-31 Siegfried and SV-262 Draken III looked just as good as the promotional materials. Really liking those designs, but damn I want to see the Battroid mode for that Draken III J

Looking critically at the first episode from a filmmaking perspective, I am somewhat puzzled by the script and production choices in Macross Delta. The first episode throws everything at you with almost no script economy, exposition or design. Both the setting/plot and all the mecha/idol/alien elements have almost no context to anyone who isn’t a Macross fan (or at least has a passing familiarity with sci-fi/mecha anime). Even as a Macross fan, I found many of the elements vague. Macross Delta has all the benchmarks that make Macross, but it feels lacking in sufficient context. Strange creative choices.

I also find myself intrigued by the setting for Macross Delta, in what appears to be another galaxy entirely? I almost feel like this other galaxy could be an intentional production choice rather than a story choice. Removing the setting so far from the Milky Way, could this be a way of conveniently divorcing Delta from the main Macross stories? Could this also be the reason Macross Delta features so little context and exposition, to help it stand on its own and force the viewers to learn all the background anew? I’m curious the reasons.

Interesting observations as always expected March Along Cassidy.

However the setting is in the other armpit of our galaxy. You know the opposite side to ours Well, more accurately one of the spiral arms of the milky way.

So we know that there at least 3 systems in the vicinity of each other, so far.

[Mr March]

Interesting observations as always expected March Along Cassidy.

However the setting is in the other armpit of our galaxy. You know the opposite side to ours Well, more accurately one of the spiral arms of the milky way.

So we know that there at least 3 systems in the vicinity of each other, so far.

Ah, thank you Zinjobular Cluster!

Not everyone can live in the fashionable part of the galaxy, lol!

I do like that the setting is currently over two planets in different systems. I wonder if they will use that as a plot point. Curious to see how it will go down.

[valkyriechild]

Hmmm, David Hingten points out the similarity between the Var song and the Song of Destruction. Wasn't Sara Nome considered a Priestess of the Wind? My memory may be fuzzy, I haven't watched Zero for a while.

I didn't make that connection. Now I have to watch that sequence again to find out...

Kadun is Var syndrome? that would be interesting. But the story of proto culture intervention on human evolution in ancient time is still fuzzy to me. Whether or not var syndrome has been used as a weapon since then or those 2 got nothing to do with each other, remains speculation.

Looking forward to Hayate flying around in VF dancing itano circus, humming to his favorite tune.

Mmm... better listen to Koi wa Dogfight again.

[gunbuster76]

oh we all know the sky is gonna win.

[Renato]

That was Renato I believe, but the point was , IMO, that there's a part of the accent that sounds a little rural.

It's a bit of rural accent, a bit of old man speak, and a bit of anime silliness.

This is all mixed together for something that, yes for those curious, is made up for the show.

It helps to identify Freyja as having been raised in the boonies (which is going to eventually be a plot point) and also comes across as idealistic, stubborn and cute.

Personally I found it to be as cute as hell and none of the fans here in Japan that I spoke with at or after the premiere had an issue with it. It's not real-life use of the language, but neither are Valkyries a realistic use of technology.

It's all about adding flavor to the fiction.

Actually, that is what the Japanese fans told me when we all went out drinking together after the screening. I noticed that it was a strange dialect/accent, and so I asked where it was from, and they responded with Kyushu. I spent quite a bit of time in Nagasaki and a girl taught me some hougen and it didn't really sound like that, so I had my doubts, but I wasn't going to argue with natives!

[crixskn]

I wonder who the 'Lady M' is that's controlling Walkure From the shadows is? Most likely a typical Kawamori fake-out, but fun to consider, regardless.

Lady Minmay? (SDFMTV)

Lady Milene? (M7)

Lady Mina? (M30)

Lady M might very well be Mikumo, the big boss of the whole squadron.

It would also mean she's rich as hell though.

[Renato]

He did seem kind of unimpressed by the whole spectacle, but maybe that's just in relation to Freyja going nuts. Even if he clearly does like to dance whether or not he actually realizes it.

Clearly he's going to be pretty good at flying a valk, but he might not be terribly into it.

There's that shot floating around of Mirage grabbing him by the collar lookin' super pissed. Rather than being pissed about him getting in a valk at the beginning of the series and saving the day, per usual, she's find out he could have saved the day and is pissed he didn't.

My prediction:

Hayate is going to be a dancer. He has been looking for the passion in his life and it seems like dancing may the only thing that makes him feel alive. His challenge will come when he is faced with having to put his life on the line for it.

Just an educated guess based on what we have seen so far.

[cyde01]

Actually, that is what the Japanese fans told me when we all went out drinking together after the screening. I noticed that it was a strange dialect/accent, and so I asked where it was from, and they responded with Kyushu. I spent quite a bit of time in Nagasaki and a girl taught me some hougen and it didn't really sound like that, so I had my doubts, but I wasn't going to argue with natives!

even within kyushu the dialects are diverse. i suspect that freyja's speak was half inspired by hakata/kitakyushu but only certain aspects of her speech mimic it.

[NightmarePlus]

The VF-171 might be 20 years old but I'm thinking these are the VF-171EX versions which would still be within a usable service life and upgraded with better tech.

Actually i took a look back at the episode and noticed something about these 171s. These are not the EX types due to these guys having the same head unit as the older VF-171s.

[Deadwade]

if you are getting too old stop watching anime

I was expecting something bad but after watching I was like that Zentradi looking at Mikumo

Deculture

Edited January 6, 2016 by Deadwade

[mickyg]

Yes, it's 3 pages back, but I was wondering when this would get brought up:

Possibly. For now, Makina had me at "Regult-chan."

That line was AWESOME! Felt like a total wink to the fans of all the secondary machines we've seen in Macross. Very nice touch indeed.

[Einherjar]

Hmmm...

Just wondering... What's the chance of Hayate NOT becoming a Valkyrie pilot?

Maybe he becomes a producer for the Walkure girls?

IDOLM@STERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[no3Ljm]

I know I'm not that excited on this new series but I hate to admit that Ikenai Borderline song is pretty damn good. I'm listening to the full track since Sunday.

[Einherjar]

yes! another on the team!

i'm betting Mirage is going to be Hayate's superior and Hayate's going to go "dyrl Hikaru disobey Misa's orders" on Mirage.

I just think before the end of this she will really deserve a big hug with such a family legacy resting on her shoulders.

[UN Spacy]

# 1 song at Amazon Japan's music downloads.

[kajnrig]

Dunno where else to talk about this, so I'll just say it here.

Has anyone played any of Arc System Works' fighting games? The Guilty Gear, Blazblue, and Persona 4 Arena games. Their more recent games have started using 3D models in lieu of sprites (the same way animation moved from 2D cels in M7 to 3D models in M0), but they've developed ingenious cel shading tech that mimics to a high degree the look of 2D animation. The embedded video features one of ASW's developers giving a talk about this tech at the Game Developers Conference 2015.

Macross, however well it's meshed 3D and 2D in the past, still can't get everything to work together sometimes. The 3D dancers in Delta are a glaring example; everything from how they're animated to the shading applied to them to lighting and particle effects and so on makes them stand out starkly against the 2D characters.

It would be awesome if Satelight were to develop similar tech (or even subcontract with ASW) to render a Macross series in the style of pure 2D animation, but with the flexibility and cost savings of 3D animation. I mean, mostly I just want a return to the glory days of Macross Plus, where the action remains high-pace and frenetic but you can still tell what's happening.

So anyway. Not much to add to the discussion, really. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

[d3v]

Dunno where else to talk about this, so I'll just say it here.

Has anyone played any of Arc System Works' fighting games? The Guilty Gear, Blazblue, and Persona 4 Arena games. Their more recent games have started using 3D models in lieu of sprites (the same way animation moved from 2D cels in M7 to 3D models in M0), but they've developed ingenious cel shading tech that mimics to a high degree the look of 2D animation. The embedded video features one of ASW's developers giving a talk about this tech at the Game Developers Conference 2015.

Macross, however well it's meshed 3D and 2D in the past, still can't get everything to work together sometimes. The 3D dancers in Delta are a glaring example; everything from how they're animated to the shading applied to them to lighting and particle effects and so on makes them stand out starkly against the 2D characters.

It would be awesome if Satelight were to develop similar tech (or even subcontract with ASW) to render a Macross series in the style of pure 2D animation, but with the flexibility and cost savings of 3D animation. I mean, mostly I just want a return to the glory days of Macross Plus, where the action remains high-pace and frenetic but you can still tell what's happening.

So anyway. Not much to add to the discussion, really. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Seeing as my day job involves writing for a fighting game news site, yes I have (and no, so far only one game uses this, GGXrd).

The unique thing they do here, compared to traditional cel shading, is that they actually bake in the lighting and shading for each individual frame. This is to avoid the usual tells that something is cel shaded. The other thing is that they're using way more key frames without tweening.

The process is actually quite time consuming, more so that traditional 3D animation.

[kajnrig]

Seeing as my day job involves writing for a fighting game news site, yes I have (and no, so far only one game uses this, GGXrd).

The unique thing they do here, compared to traditional cel shading, is that they actually bake in the lighting and shading for each individual frame. This is to avoid the usual tells that something is cel shaded. The other thing is that they're using way more key frames without tweening.

The process is actually quite time consuming, more so that traditional 3D animation.

Didn't they use this for Blazblue? I could have sworn they did... Well, you're the one in the know. (Also, yes indeed you're right. I just got to around the 41:30 mark where he talks about that very game.)

No doubt it's more expensive than traditional 3D, but man would it be worth it. Maybe use it for a movie or short M0-length OAV series. Pretty please, Satelight? For me?

[d3v]

Didn't they use this for Blazblue? I could have sworn they did... Well, you're the one in the know. (Also, yes indeed you're right. I just got to around the 41:30 mark where he talks about that very game.)

No doubt it's more expensive than traditional 3D, but man would it be worth it. Maybe use it for a movie or short M0-length OAV series. Pretty please, Satelight? For me?

They used rotoscoping for BlazBlue. They had flat shaded 3D models of the characters that they traced over with pixel art. Xrd is the first game they've done that uses this new technique (on Unreal Engine 3 I might add).

[kajnrig]

Ah, I see. I'll admit, I've never played either of the two games. Or P4A, for that matter... But I try to keep up with the games because I enjoy the community.

[JB0]

Ah, I see. I'll admit, I've never played either of the two games. Or P4A, for that matter... But I try to keep up with the games because I enjoy the community.

I'm the opposite. I am terrible at fightgames, and not really connected with the punch-em-up community. But the things often ooze style, and I love a game with a sense of style. So I have a stack of fighters anyways.

[McFly!!]

They're shipped in from Winderemere, which could be a clue about something.

That said, this isn't the first time that Macross has used fruit (or food) as a plot element. The only difference is that we don't have the word "pine" in front of apple this time.

Wonder what would've happened if the apples were baked into a cake or pie...

What I want to know is how does Walkure send their songs to the Var victims? Do they need to be in close range to do it like we saw with Mikumo when she rushed that Queadluun? But what about that scene where Messer was surrounded and all those Zentradi fell over despite none of the girls being nearby? I'm guessing the songs are more effective the closer the girls are and the Multi-Drones help transmit their songs.

I think it's some area effect magic attack too.. Wasn't there a graphic/HUD that showed the 'blast range'?

My prediction:

Hayate is going to be a dancer. He has been looking for the passion in his life and it seems like dancing may the only thing that makes him feel alive. His challenge will come when he is faced with having to put his life on the line for it.

Just an educated guess based on what we have seen so far.

Lol

mahou(?) hayate xxl

Edited January 6, 2016 by McFly!!

[MisaForever]

Curveball - it'll be Makina/Freyja.

What you say, I understand not what it is.

[MisaForever]

I'm the opposite. I am terrible at fightgames, and not really connected with the punch-em-up community. But the things often ooze style, and I love a game with a sense of style. So I have a stack of fighters anyways.

We all know you're the #1 Dating Sim fan, JB0. It's okay to admit it!

[Mazinger]

Dunno where else to talk about this, so I'll just say it here.

Has anyone played any of Arc System Works' fighting games? The Guilty Gear, Blazblue, and Persona 4 Arena games. Their more recent games have started using 3D models in lieu of sprites (the same way animation moved from 2D cels in M7 to 3D models in M0), but they've developed ingenious cel shading tech that mimics to a high degree the look of 2D animation. The embedded video features one of ASW's developers giving a talk about this tech at the Game Developers Conference 2015.

That is a great presentation. Much to be learned from Arc System Works approach. They correctly saw the limitations of mixing 2D animation with 3D surroundings. Persona4's animation looks "stuttery" in the fluid 3D setting.

I myself am a Street Fighter fan. The new SFV (i.e. 5) has been built on the Unreal Engine and has shown great increases in image definition, but things like how character's hair render have suffered. Ken's new hair looks like clay, which wasn't true in SF4.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Mazinger

[Graham]

But what about that scene where Messer was surrounded and all those Zentradi fell over despite none of the girls being nearby?

I took that scene to imply that Messer is a crap-hot combat pilot and gunfighter and he shot all those 4 Zentradi Mecha that were surrounding him with his arm guns.

Although that scene is obscured by images of the Walkure girls faces, there does appear to be muzzle flashes visible before the mecha all fall down and then Messer slightly lowers his arms as the mecha fall down.

[azrael]

I took that scene to imply that Messer is a crap-hot combat pilot and gunfighter and he shot all those 4 Zentradi Mecha that were surrounding him with his arm guns.

Messer is suppose to be the ace of Delta Squadron.

[Graham]

Messer is suppose to be the ace of Delta Squadron.

And my favorite character so far.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

And my favorite character so far.

aside from his skills Messer looks like a robot.

[Raptor One]

And my favorite character so far.

He's definitely up there for me too. Counting down in German before flying headfirst into an Itano Circus and dodging every single missile? Son.

Plus he's partnered with the Walkure member who has my favourite design so far