Star Trek: Discovery

[Thom]

12 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

...

Even after the end of the world, the fragments of the planet float peacefully in space.

[sh9000]

 

[Seto Kaiba]

To be honest, looking at the insurmountably massive disparity in quality and entertainment value between Star Trek: Discovery and its spinoff Star Trek: Strange New Worlds all I can really muster in response to this trailer is "Why did they even bother?".

They could have just quietly struck the sets at the end of season four, reallocated the budget to Strange New Worlds, and almost nobody would've noticed or cared.

The way Star Trek: Discovery is written, it doesn't really NEED a series finale.  Each season is a self-contained serialized story with only minimal connection to the others beyond a shared cast.  Without the episodic format of other Star Trek shows or an overarching plot thread or two to tie off at the end they could've stopped at the end of any given season's story and it wouldn't have made any difference to the narrative.  They don't have the store of goodwill to lean into an unsatisfying fanservice-heavy finale like Star Trek: Picard had, so they're either going to try to end with Burnham being proclaimed the greatest hero of all time (despite being probably the worst Starfleet officer to ever wear the uniform) or it'll just kind of peter out with a noncommittal "These are the voyages" style ending where "the adventures continue, we just can't be arsed to show you".

[pengbuzz]

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

To be honest, looking at the insurmountably massive disparity in quality and entertainment value between Star Trek: Discovery and its spinoff Star Trek: Strange New Worlds all I can really muster in response to this trailer is "Why did they even bother?".

They could have just quietly struck the sets at the end of season four, reallocated the budget to Strange New Worlds, and almost nobody would've noticed or cared.

The way Star Trek: Discovery is written, it doesn't really NEED a series finale.  Each season is a self-contained serialized story with only minimal connection to the others beyond a shared cast.  Without the episodic format of other Star Trek shows or an overarching plot thread or two to tie off at the end they could've stopped at the end of any given season's story and it wouldn't have made any difference to the narrative.  They don't have the store of goodwill to lean into an unsatisfying fanservice-heavy finale like Star Trek: Picard had, so they're either going to try to end with Burnham being proclaimed the greatest hero of all time (despite being probably the worst Starfleet officer to ever wear the uniform) or it'll just kind of peter out with a noncommittal "These are the voyages" style ending where "the adventures continue, we just can't be arsed to show you".

Personally, I was hoping for a transporter accident where she and the command crew are turned into something resembling Ted from the ending of I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream.

[Thom]

So, now we're on a treasure hunt. Sounds like going out with a whimper.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Personally, I was hoping for a transporter accident where she and the command crew are turned into something resembling Ted from the ending of I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream.

Y'know... I was going to say that that's way too morbid and that Star Trek's showrunners would never do something like that.

Then I remembered that Star Trek: Lower Decks already did it in its season four opener.  They were taking jabs at the premise of the controversial Voyager episode "Tuvix" and by the end of the plot had accidentally turned a good chunk of the main cast into a transporter-fused blob of indistinct flesh.

Still, it's a safe bet Burnham won't be allowed to go out quietly.  They've acted on zero of their four chances to replace Burnham with a more likeable protagonist thus far and her main character syndrome is so pronounced that even in-series characters are commenting on her out-of-control savior complex as of season four.  They keep escalating in each successive season, so if she does tap out she'll do so saving the entire galaxy or universe or whatever and if she doesn't they'll make her out to be Starfleet's greatest-ever hero just to spite the vast majority of fans who find the show unwatchable.

[Thom]

So, is this worth it..?

[Seto Kaiba]

47 minutes ago, Thom said:

So, is this worth it..?

Are you asking if Discovery's fifth and final season is worth watching?

No, it's not.

It's less aggressively awful than Discovery's first three seasons, but IMO it's worse than Season 4.  It's trying really hard to take the Picard Season 3 way out by massively increasing the density of references to previous Trek shows, but it's much less effective because none of the characters have any personal link to those shows.

Just seven more episodes and this dreary mess of a series is done.

[Thom]

25 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Are you asking if Discovery's fifth and final season is worth watching?

No, it's not.

It's less aggressively awful than Discovery's first three seasons, but IMO it's worse than Season 4.  It's trying really hard to take the Picard Season 3 way out by massively increasing the density of references to previous Trek shows, but it's much less effective because none of the characters have any personal link to those shows.

Just seven more episodes and this dreary mess of a series is done.

Ha! Thanks! 😁

[wm cheng]

On 3/4/2023 at 3:38 PM, Dynaman said:

Those days are long gone, except in the military and Unions (no judgement there, those are the only two places I know where you have to start at the bottom and move up).  The days where the mail room boy (do they still have them anymore?) stays with one company to eventually become CEO is long gone.  

Hey @Dobber, @Dynaman, @Seto Kaiba very interesting observations about the Disco crew and entitlement.  Being in Art Dept (in ST SNW) but this isn’t specific only to Star Trek but all different art departments for all different shows, the newer generation hires never gel together like family from earlier on in my career.  New hires are constantly asking why they aren’t in charge more without taking the responsibility or earning the experience.  I feel the new younger writers represent this demographic now and Disco isn’t aimed at “us” old timers.  It’s aimed at the much larger younger generation that identifies with these instant gratification entitlement workplaces.  Experience is no longer valued because the corporations don’t promote from within anymore.  This generation moves up by being headhunted away into higher positions, if the companies won’t show you loyalty, why would you be loyal to the company?!

 

Can’t say to much specifics but I can say that SNW is definitely the orphaned stepchild with the fewest resources of all the newer ST productions.  Disco has more than 2-3x our budget (and so squandered!).  Even the showrunner has said that TOS was so low budget and did its best when it had very little which is so frustrating for us.  SNW is seen as only popular with a very small (but vocal) dying aging demographic that’s getting smaller and more irrelevant.  The Studios are trying to court the larger more influential demographic than serve the old fans (which is why you get S31 and Starfleet Academy which is YA).

[Seto Kaiba]

4 hours ago, wm cheng said:

Being in Art Dept (in ST SNW) but this isn’t specific only to Star Trek but all different art departments for all different shows, the newer generation hires never gel together like family from earlier on in my career.

To be honest, I'm not surprised... though I'm not sure I'd rush to call it a generational thing either.

Consider how much of an impact the change in the working environment has to have had.  Barring a ratings-driven cancellation, a series used to be a 7+ year commitment to the 24 episode season model and a whopping 168+ episodes when all was said and done.

Nowadays a season can be as short as just 8 episodes and it's not uncommon for a streaming service to pull the plug on a series after just one season.  Hell, the only thing that stopped Discovery from being just another one-season wonder (or blunder) was that CBS threatened to sue Netflix for breach of contract when Netflix announced its intention to withdraw from funding the series based on its poor viewership numbers.  It wouldn't surprise me at all if this uncertainty combined with the much lower episode counts led to a reduced willingness (or even reduced opportunity) to engage with coworkers on a personal level.

If Strange New Worlds goes for seven seasons, it'll still finish with fewer episodes in the can than Star Trek's original series did after just three seasons... 70 vs 79.  Discovery will have just 65 episodes when it concludes its fifth and final season thanks to repeated reductions of its season length.  Lower Decks will have just 50 episodes under its belt when that series ends (assuming it doesn't get rescued).  Star Trek: Prodigy finished with 40.  Picard limped to an undignified finish with only 30.  The only Star Trek series that's shorter than these new shows is The Animated Series which was cancelled after just 22 episodes.

 

 

4 hours ago, wm cheng said:

New hires are constantly asking why they aren’t in charge more without taking the responsibility or earning the experience.  I feel the new younger writers represent this demographic now and Disco isn’t aimed at “us” old timers.  It’s aimed at the much larger younger generation that identifies with these instant gratification entitlement workplaces.  

That's not "entitlement" or "instant gratification" culture, my good chap... it's a test.

The younger millennials and gen z members of the workforce have a much better and more intuitive understanding of this point right here...

4 hours ago, wm cheng said:

Experience is no longer valued because the corporations don’t promote from within anymore.  This generation moves up by being headhunted away into higher positions, if the companies won’t show you loyalty, why would you be loyal to the company?!

... than the boomers and gen x'ers do.  This point actually applies to almost everyone below the c-suite, but it's only those younger workers who've really internalized the reality.

They're probing to see if there are opportunities to advance, to get closer to the work they want to be doing.  If the answer is an immediate "No", then that's one less reason to stay and a sign that moving on will almost certainly improve their odds of getting where they want to be.  They want to be mentored.  They want the responsibility.  They just don't want to stick around forever waiting for a chance that's never coming. 

From what's been leaked to the entertainment media, the working environment on the new Star Trek shows leaves a fair bit to be desired.  Discovery in particular is described as being downright toxic, with writers and producers regularly fighting and insulting each other and the occasional dismissal for cause from CBS/Paramount HR.

 

 

That said, I don't think that's what's influencing Discovery's direction.  If you look at the staff bios, the people calling the shots here aren't millennials or gen z... they're almost all gen x.

Discovery doesn't seem to be aimed at any demographic in particular, unless we're counting "edgelord" as a demographic now.  It's this bleak, depressing, hate-filled, high tension mess that all generations of Star Trek fans seem to reject in equal measure.  It's not just that the reviews on review aggregator sites consistently rank Discovery as the worst Trek series ever made and the second-worst title the franchise has produced in total (beaten out only by Star Trek V: the Final Frontier).  If you look to social media, fans of every demographic seem to find the show borderline unwatchable.  It doesn't matter if it's Facebook, Instagram, Reddit, Tiktok, YouTube... Discovery is a joke.  The days back in season one when fans would white knight against the critics by claiming dislike of the show was motivated by racism are gone.  The honeymoon is over and the bloom is off the rose.  Michael Burnham is now widely regarded as The Worst Captain and the butt of oh-so-many jokes about her sociopathic tendencies and how especially frequently she cries.  Saying "Discovery sucks and is unwatchable" isn't derided as a hot take, it's usually just met with "we know, it's why we don't talk about it".

Trek on social media is old Trek, Strange New Worlds, and Lower Decks.  The last time I saw a Discovery post that wasn't negative, it turned out to be a targeted ad for Paramount+.

 

4 hours ago, wm cheng said:

Can’t say to much specifics but I can say that SNW is definitely the orphaned stepchild with the fewest resources of all the newer ST productions.  Disco has more than 2-3x our budget (and so squandered!).  Even the showrunner has said that TOS was so low budget and did its best when it had very little which is so frustrating for us.  SNW is seen as only popular with a very small (but vocal) dying aging demographic that’s getting smaller and more irrelevant.  The Studios are trying to court the larger more influential demographic than serve the old fans (which is why you get S31 and Starfleet Academy which is YA).

That's immensely frustrating, considering Strange New Worlds seems to basically carrying the franchise among general audiences at this point.

I have to wonder what they're basing these decisions on, because it can't be average viewership on Paramount+... those reported numbers suggest Strange New Worlds is easily the highest performer of the lot.  Strange New Worlds and Picard were both launched to save CBS All Access/Paramount+ from Discovery's failure as the flagship series for the service.  It can't be awards, because Discovery has only really won minor and technical ones.  It can't be reviews, because they'd surely have noticed it's only the professional critics who are speaking well of the series and that audience reviews are in the toilet with as much as a 50 point delta between the critics and audience.  It's not merchandise sales, because the merchandise for Discovery is frankly tragic (though not as much so as Picard) and it's the legacy stuff that's carrying the brand.  The international viewership numbers were so bad they lost the company financing it and had to fund it by tanking their stock price with a massive share sell-off.

What do they have that's driving this faith in this awful new brand of Trek that nobody seems to actually like?  It's terribly confusing.

[Big s]

Paramount plus was probably the antibiotic to stop the spread of STD. It may have had more viewers on a different service, but who knows. I don’t know anyone that was able to watch it, but from what I’ve read it didn’t sound great

[Seto Kaiba]

17 minutes ago, Big s said:

Paramount plus was probably the antibiotic to stop the spread of STD. It may have had more viewers on a different service, but who knows. I don’t know anyone that was able to watch it, but from what I’ve read it didn’t sound great

When it first came out, Discovery was only a CBS All Access exclusive in the US and Canada.

It was on Netflix everywhere else.  Netflix actually put up the entire production budget in exchange for the international streaming rights.  The first season went so far over budget and did so poorly on Netflix that Netflix tried to have the series cancelled.  The only reason it kept going was that CBS threatened to sue Netflix for breach of contract if they didn't continue production.  Netflix reportedly tried to cancel the series again after a similarly dismal showing from season two.  They finally escaped it after season three, having struck an agreement to terminate their contract and sell the international rights back to the post-merger ViacomCBS for an undisclosed sum.

Discovery did so poorly on Netflix that Netflix tried to cancel it twice and then willingly took an L and sold the rights back just to be rid of it and their obligations to it.

... and this is the one CBS/ViacomCBS/Paramount thinks is the future of Star Trek. 🤣

[Thom]

Caught up to Episode 6... and it's not as bad as least season. More than a few good episodes in there. Still too many heart-to-heart chats happening at the drop of a hat. 

'Yes, there's this big emergency and I need to access this EPS conduit to boost more power to comms - but did you want to talk about your feelings..?'

Time and place, people, time and place...

I'm really liking the inclusion of Callum Rennie, and Wilson Cruz did pretty good when he hosted the symbiot's conscience. It was like watching a completely different character.

And the ISS Enterprise! That was a good one. Makes me think they'll refurbish her like they did Discovery, then I imagined her with 'floating' nacelles and shivered in dread.

There's this one scene where Rayner and Michael are staring out at Discovery and he called the ship beautiful. I had to pause and shake my head. Oh, hella no!

The one thing really missing (other than an ending that won't trip over itself) is more Detmer. that lady can be on screen All. Day. Long!

 

 

Edited May 8 by Thom