Star Trek: Discovery

[Dynaman]

15 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Tie-ins I get, they help make a bigger universe.  With Trek 2009 though, it was more a specific problem that can really be best summed up by that old Mona Lisa analogy about the changes in recent years regarding games and DLC.

If a story doesn't stand on its own apart from the tie-in, I can't call it a tie-in anymore, and it sounds like a money grab aimed at viewers who want a complete story.

I've never seen the comic book related to the 2009 movie and had no trouble with movie.  The comic was an extra and not required in any way.  

[Mommar]

30 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

I've never seen the comic book related to the 2009 movie and had no trouble with movie.  The comic was an extra and not required in any way.  

Then explain why Nero went back in time and then waited twenty five years to get revenge on the Vulcans despite the fact he had the most advanced ship in the Galaxy?

[Dynaman]

42 minutes ago, Mommar said:

Then explain why Nero went back in time and then waited twenty five years to get revenge on the Vulcans despite the fact he had the most advanced ship in the Galaxy?

His ship was extensively damaged when rammed by the (whatever the name of the first ship was) and then he got in fights AND he knew Spock was not coming back till then.  Any more explanation than that is not required, so much so that the footage that was shot to cover it was not considered to be needed.

[Seto Kaiba]

13 hours ago, JB0 said:

At the time they did the first Bayformers movie, Hasbro was insisting there was a new strict continuity policy going forward and everything was going to be in a coherent shared universe(a statement clearly intended for adult fans, since they're the only ones that CARE about the continuity of plastic robots).

Well, that's news to me. 

Fancy that, the Michael Bay Transformers movies actually had a story!  One they were hoping to build on, even! 

(Seriously, who knew?  I assumed that everybody in the cast was just sort of winging it because they couldn't hear anything over the sound of junkyard vomit robots fighting.)

 

 

1 hour ago, Mommar said:

Then explain why Nero went back in time and then waited twenty five years to get revenge on the Vulcans despite the fact he had the most advanced ship in the Galaxy?

Sure, Rura Penthe gets a lot of bad press because of the lethally low temperatures, the Klingon prison colony, and the lethally dangerous dilithium mining operation run using convict labor... but the skiing is simply fabulous.  All that time travel was stressful, so they went on holiday, right?

 

43 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

His ship was extensively damaged when rammed by the (whatever the name of the first ship was) and then he got in fights AND he knew Spock was not coming back till then.  Any more explanation than that is not required, so much so that the footage that was shot to cover it was not considered to be needed.

That doesn't really account for a full quarter century of sitting on his hands.

That, and a number of other plot holes, needed the supplemental materials to close.  Like why that schmuck didn't lead an evacuation of Romulus or how he found out about the supernova in the first place before failing to warn everyone.

Basically, without those explanations, Star Trek 2009 is an idiot plot.  (Well, it's an idiot plot even with that, but it's less of one.)  Kind of like how Discovery only starts to make sense in the second half of the first season when you realize that Captain Malfoy isn't just evil, he was too evil for the universe of evil twins.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Dynaman]

As you point out even with the comics it is an idiot plot.  The number one being the instant they went through the wormhole they should have left the ship they found alone and went back to Romulus.  Once they didn't (or destroyed it right out) the plot about wanting revenge, ship heavily damaged, fought with Klingons, is all you need.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dynaman

[Seto Kaiba]

3 hours ago, Dynaman said:

As you point out even with the comics it is an idiot plot.

One fueled principally by a massive failure to grasp basic physics, yes... though every character in the plot is an imbecile and the entire plot occurs solely because nobody is willing to exercise any kind of critical thinking or behave rationally for more than three seconds at a stretch.

(Stupidity a level that rivals Burnham's failed "Sense Motive" check on Malfoy in Star Trek: Discovery's first episode.  The guy was practically wearing a sandwich board with the words "SERIOUSLY EVIL DUDE HERE" written on it.  In hindsight, I suppose that means Burnham's headed straight to the top, since she's a horrible enough judge of character to be an Admiral.)

 

Quote

The number one being the instant they went through the wormhole they should have left the ship they found alone and went back to Romulus.  Once they didn't (or destroyed it right out) the plot about wanting revenge, ship heavily damaged, fought with Klingons, is all you need.

There are some plot details that are entirely dependent on Star Trek: Countdown that are otherwise gaping plot holes in the film.  The biggest would have to be why the Narada looks nothing like any kind of Romulan starship, why what is ostensibly a 24th century civilian mining vessel has firepower sufficient to tackle fleets of warships simultaneously when civilian ships of its time are generally not armed with much more than a "BANG!" flag and harsh language, and why the Romulan crew wants to blame the Federation and Vulcans in particular... though that last one still borders on insane troll logic.

The comic is, quite frustratingly, necessary to actually fully understand WTH is going on in the story and why... which is the sign of bad storytelling (a Jar-Jar Abrams hallmark).

Edited August 9, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Chronocidal]

27 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There are some plot details that are entirely dependent on Star Trek: Countdown that are otherwise gaping plot holes in the film.  The biggest would have to be why the Narada looks nothing like any kind of Romulan starship, why what is ostensibly a 24th century civilian mining vessel has firepower sufficient to tackle fleets of warships simultaneously when civilian ships of its time are generally not armed with much more than a "BANG!" flag and harsh language, and why the Romulan crew wants to blame the Federation and Vulcans in particular... though that last one still borders on insane troll logic.

The comic is, quite frustratingly, necessary to actually fully understand WTH is going on in the story and why... which is the sign of bad storytelling (a Jar-Jar Abrams hallmark).

I think they went way past bordering.  That plot picked up the line between sense and nonsense, and then proceeded to skip rope with it.

Don't get me wrong, it was still an entertaining movie, but nothing about the plot or its associated devices fit within anything previously established about how the Trek universe functions.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Chronocidal

[Dynaman]

Does the comic go into the far more important question of why the Federation does not go looking for the Narada after it blows away one of their ships?  Indeed, they completely forget that some massive ship is out there.  Since I'm willing to let that slide the rest of it also falls away to nothing too.  It is a simple story of revenge with a few plot holes larger then the black hole Spock rides in on.  (which also reminds me, Spock sees Vulcan explode from Light Years away, in less then a day)

Edited August 9, 2018 by Dynaman

[Seto Kaiba]

43 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

Does the comic go into the far more important question of why the Federation does not go looking for the Narada after it blows away one of their ships?  Indeed, they completely forget that some massive ship is out there.

Being rammed by the USS Kelvin did the Narada no favors, and while it was still crippled it was captured and impounded by the Klingon Empire.  The Narada's crew was imprisoned in the gulag at Rura Penthe and the Narada itself was placed in an impound yard in orbit... a very bad decision that came back to bite the Klingons in the arse when the crew managed to break out and were able to reclaim their colossal spiky death ship and minced a Klingon fleet of 47 ships on their way out of Klingon space.

The Federation did go looking for it, but because the ship had been taken deep into Klingon space they never found it.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Seto Kaiba

[Dynaman]

48 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Being rammed by the USS Kelvin did the Narada no favors, and while it was still crippled it was captured and impounded by the Klingon Empire.  The Narada's crew was imprisoned in the gulag at Rura Penthe and the Narada itself was placed in an impound yard in orbit... a very bad decision that came back to bite the Klingons in the arse when the crew managed to break out and were able to reclaim their colossal spiky death ship and minced a Klingon fleet of 47 ships on their way out of Klingon space.

The Federation did go looking for it, but because the ship had been taken deep into Klingon space they never found it.

AND forgot all about it except for a few kooks doing research on the Kelvin.  So I'll stick with my point that the comic was unnecessary to understand the film.  Sortof like know why it was 12 parsecs in another movie.  And say no more.

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

I think they went way past bordering.  That plot picked up the line between sense and nonsense, and then proceeded to skip rope with it.

Honestly, I +1'd this post pre-edit simply for this wonderful turn of phrase.  That got an honest-to-goodness out-loud laugh from me in the middle of a meeting. 

 

7 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

Don't get me wrong, it was still an entertaining movie, but nothing about the plot or its associated devices fit within anything previously established about how the Trek universe functions.

If anything, the Star Trek novel 'verse did a magnificent job cleaning up the prime universe aftermath of the poor creative decisions made in Star Trek 2009.  The offending supernova's faster-than-light shockwave and other unusual properties were explained as a result of the Tal Shiar's latest idiot chairman¹ conducting clandestine (illegal) testing of subspace weapons that'd been banned by treaty.  That was what created the FTL subspace shockwave that was destroying star systems and gaining energy as it spread.  A few other helpful odds and ends were explained like how the Narada came to have Borg technology, why Nero and co. blamed the supernova's destruction of Romulus on Spock and Vulcan, and what went on during the timeskip.

 

5 hours ago, Dynaman said:

AND forgot all about it except for a few kooks doing research on the Kelvin.  So I'll stick with my point that the comic was unnecessary to understand the film.  Sortof like know why it was 12 parsecs in another movie.  And say no more.

To be fair, if a threat rears its head just long enough to destroy ONE ship and promptly disappears without so much as a peep from it in decades, people are going to forget or at least stop worrying about it so much.

Like, for instance, Discovery's Commander Burnham.  She was literally famous as Starfleet's first mutineer and for causing the cold war with the Klingon Empire to go hot in 2255, but barely ten years and one pardon later nobody remembers her mutiny at all and a bunch of officers who were in the service at the time of the war insist there's never been a mutineer before.

 

1. The quality of the Tal Shiar's leadership really took a dive after Koval from DS9 was assassinated.  There seems to be an inverse relationship between arrogance and competence in the Tal Shiar, and they hit peak arrogance with the appointment of Sela to the post.  She screwed up so badly trying to steal slipstream drive technology from the Federation that she nearly started wars with the Khitomer Accords signatories AND the Dominion, cost the Breen a major shipyard, cost the Tzenkethi a huge space station and all their research on artificial wormholes, landed her ally Tomalak in the Federation equivalent of a supermax prison serving a life sentence and was arrested on Romulus after pissing the Praetor off so badly that they were going to extradite her to the Federation despite the absence of an extradition treaty between the UFP and Romulan Empire and only avoided going by committing suicide in her cell.  Her replacement wasn't much better.

[sketchley]

15 hours ago, Dynaman said:

Does the comic go into the far more important question of why the Federation does not go looking for the Narada after it blows away one of their ships?  Indeed, they completely forget that some massive ship is out there.  Since I'm willing to let that slide the rest of it also falls away to nothing too.  It is a simple story of revenge with a few plot holes larger then the black hole Spock rides in on.  (which also reminds me, Spock sees Vulcan explode from Light Years away, in less then a day)

Ugh!  Don't remind me of the seriously BAD physics in JJ Abrams' movies!  In this instance, I completely ignore the plot, because the introduction of the characters*, and the chemistry between the actors, is a ride onto itself.

That said... I haven't gotten around to seeing that movie's 2 sequels...

 

* that's the young TOS crew, not anyone else. :wink:

 

15 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Being rammed by the USS Kelvin did the Narada no favors, and while it was still crippled it was captured and impounded by the Klingon Empire.  The Narada's crew was imprisoned in the gulag at Rura Penthe and the Narada itself was placed in an impound yard in orbit... a very bad decision that came back to bite the Klingons in the arse when the crew managed to break out and were able to reclaim their colossal spiky death ship and minced a Klingon fleet of 47 ships on their way out of Klingon space.

The Federation did go looking for it, but because the ship had been taken deep into Klingon space they never found it.

You know... that would've made for a very interesting movie.

It would, however, have completely derailed the origin story of Kirk et al, and probably would've ended up being a major distraction in the movie—à la the pod race in SWI.

Edited August 10, 2018 by sketchley

[Dynaman]

3 hours ago, sketchley said:

Ugh!  Don't remind me of the seriously BAD physics in JJ Abrams' movies!  In this instance, I completely ignore the plot, because the introduction of the characters*, and the chemistry between the actors, is a ride onto itself.

 

New last point on that.  Totally agree there, character interaction in the films has been top notch.  The last film being the best of the lot - if only they had not totally messed up the villain and the main plot in that one.

[TehPW]

3 hours ago, Dynaman said:

New last point on that.  Totally agree there, character interaction in the films has been top notch.  The last film being the best of the lot - if only they had not totally messed up the villain and the main plot in that one.

compared to the previous 2 JJ films, STB's villain was pretty normal in comparison (it was a nice change of pace at least). The ONLY flaw I wished they did was some mention of Carol Marcus is passing, perhaps her picture on a wall or Bones mentioning that she left on her terms, not Jim's (which would be cannon when you recall his interaction with Carol in TWoK). it would make that sequence in which Kirk is beginning to feel... bored on his multi-year mission, more gravitas? 

[Seto Kaiba]

7 hours ago, sketchley said:

You know... that would've made for a very interesting movie.

It would, however, have completely derailed the origin story of Kirk et al, and probably would've ended up being a major distraction in the movie—à la the pod race in SWI.

Yeah, but it would have been a more enjoyable movie for all that... Star Trek 2009 suffers from many of the same flaws Star Trek: Discovery does, particularly when it comes to making its main character hopelessly unlikeable.  Star Trek: Into Darkness did nothing to improve fratboy-Kirk in my view, and only exacerbated what an unlikeable, unjustifiably smug prick he was in the previous film having an entirely undeserved command.  I doubt Star Trek: Beyond did anything to improve that.

I'm actually inclined to view Star Trek: Discovery's Michael Burnham more favorably than J.J's version of Jim Kirk, if only because her issues are mostly the Janeway Problem.  Star Trek: Discovery's writers can't seem to agree on how to write a "strong" woman, so she's constantly flip-flopping between a standard naive and trusting Starfleet officer, vulnerable flower with mommy issues, and the generic angry antihero (or perhaps villain protagonist).  I'll take "inconsistent but occasionally good" over a protagonist who's consistently an arse any day.  Hopefully season 2 and some guidance from one of Starfleet's best will turn Burnham into an officer worth respecting and not an officer worth jailing again.

[Mommar]

5 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, but it would have been a more enjoyable movie for all that... Star Trek 2009 suffers from many of the same flaws Star Trek: Discovery does, particularly when it comes to making its main character hopelessly unlikeable.  Star Trek: Into Darkness did nothing to improve fratboy-Kirk in my view, and only exacerbated what an unlikeable, unjustifiably smug prick he was in the previous film having an entirely undeserved command.  I doubt Star Trek: Beyond did anything to improve that.

Not true, Beyond improved many things from the first two films.  That improvement only puts the quality ofnthe fulm around Nemesis levels but it was improved, given the situation they were left with.  The movie, while flawed, was clearly made by people who at least liked the Trek franchis.  You csn look at it and admit there wad a good idea here even if it wasn’t executed well.  At the very least it’s the very first time we ever saw a Connie pull off a Saucer separation.

[Seto Kaiba]

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

Not true, Beyond improved many things from the first two films.  That improvement only puts the quality ofnthe fulm around Nemesis levels but it was improved, given the situation they were left with.

... I know you mean to defend the film, but this comes off feeling a bit like "damned by faint praise".

I've got a long weekend of PC repair ahead of me, so I may sit down and soldier through Beyond after I run out of episodes of Overlord.

 

2 hours ago, Mommar said:

The movie, while flawed, was clearly made by people who at least liked the Trek franchis.  You csn look at it and admit there wad a good idea here even if it wasn’t executed well.  At the very least it’s the very first time we ever saw a Connie pull off a Saucer separation.

Unless you count some of the old storyboards showing the refit Constitution-class doing it.  IIRC, the idea goes all the way back to TOS, where they toyed with the idea of having the saucer section be a landing craft/mobile laboratory before deciding it was way too expensive to land the ship every week.

EDIT: I think one of the old video games from the nineties let you saucer separate a Constitution-class ship too... I'll check on Memory Beta.

 

That must've been a neat effects sequence, though if one thing can be said of the Abrams trilogy it's that they had a John Hammond-esque commitment to sparing no expense on spectacle... so at least things were pretty most of the time.  Style over substance is kind of a bad habit to get into for a series that's normally known for cerebral sci-fi.  A habit I wish Discovery hadn't picked up... it makes space battles too tempting a prospect.

[Seto Kaiba]

Just saw a report on my Google news feed that Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth are both leaving the new movie over contract negotiation issues.

http://comicbook.com/startrek/amp/2018/08/10/star-trek-4-chris-pine-chris-hemsworth-exit/

[Mommar]

54 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

... I know you mean to defend the film, but this comes off feeling a bit like "damned by faint praise".

I've got a long weekend of PC repair ahead of me, so I may sit down and soldier through Beyond after I run out of episodes of Overlord.

I'm mostly just trying to be honest.  It's better than JJ's first two, but not that good.  I would consider everything I say more of a fair warning.  Other people here have said it's great.  It's not. I'm giving it credit if only because Justin Lin and Simon Pegg clearly are fans who tried.  There's still a lot of the same problems, non-Star Trek things included.  But there's more Star Trek here than before.

You will hate how they get the Franklin airborne.

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Unless you count some of the old storyboards showing the refit Constitution-class doing it.  IIRC, the idea goes all the way back to TOS, where they toyed with the idea of having the saucer section be a landing craft/mobile laboratory before deciding it was way too expensive to land the ship every week.

EDIT: I think one of the old video games from the nineties let you saucer separate a Constitution-class ship too... I'll check on Memory Beta.

I've seen those production sketches.  I should have been more clear.  It's the first time seen set to film.

 

1 hour ago, Seto Kaiba said:

That must've been a neat effects sequence, though if one thing can be said of the Abrams trilogy it's that they had a John Hammond-esque commitment to sparing no expense on spectacle... so at least things were pretty most of the time.  Style over substance is kind of a bad habit to get into for a series that's normally known for cerebral sci-fi.  A habit I wish Discovery hadn't picked up... it makes space battles too tempting a prospect.

The special effects are the only praise I could give the first two JJ films.  However, every shot of the Enterprise is too close.  The only time you ever saw the full body of the ship in all of the first two movies is when the hull is being constructed on Earth.  Justin Lin understands the glamour shots from the original films.  You get a lot of full body shots, and fly-by's and stuff akin to something you would see in Star Trek II or Star Trek III.  Mind the idiotic, non-Star Trek, space station.  It is a very Star Trek-esque sequence though.

I'll also give Justin Lin kudos for attempting to show how warp actually functions.  It's not just a hyperspace tunnel like very other depiction.  He actually understood there's a bubble generated around the ship and tried to visualize that.  It's still not terribly accurate but it's another first and at least a little interesting even if it is just an FX shot.

[Mommar]

18 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Just saw a report on my Google news feed that Chris Pine and Chris Hemsworth are both leaving the new movie over contract negotiation issues.

http://comicbook.com/startrek/amp/2018/08/10/star-trek-4-chris-pine-chris-hemsworth-exit/

Okay... the first movie sucks, the second movie involves Khan and sucks, the third movie the Enterprise gets destroyed and almost sucks, the fourth is supposed to involve time travel.   They really are going to ape every single beat from the original films aren't they?  I guess the fifth one will be low budget and stupid and the sixth one they'll blow up Praxis and fight a cloaked ship!

[Dynaman]

It will be interesting to see where the negotiations go with this.  Although it is not actually said in the article I'm guessing Hemsworth is being offered more money and Pine thinks he should get equal or more pay since

[TehPW]

Now that sounds like ego (which makes sense: the best that Pine has ever done was being a 'fratboi' captain... and drive a GE AC4400CW. Hemsworth probably thinks he's worth* more because he's been a god or such, several times over)

*See what I did

[technoblue]

Who Mourns for Hemsworth?

[Seto Kaiba]

9 hours ago, Mommar said:

Okay... the first movie sucks, the second movie involves Khan and sucks, the third movie the Enterprise gets destroyed and almost sucks, the fourth is supposed to involve time travel.   They really are going to ape every single beat from the original films aren't they?  I guess the fifth one will be low budget and stupid and the sixth one they'll blow up Praxis and fight a cloaked ship!

"If they liked it once, they'll love it twice!"

Paramount insists they're still going forward with Star Trek's next movie despite two plot-critical characters actors having bailed on the project, though I suspect that's more a bluff intended to make Pine and Hemsworth come back to the table.  Normally when you've lost a main character's actor your sequel hopes are screwed.  Star Trek is particularly unforgiving in that regard, since viewers are long accustomed to the same actors playing the same characters all the time.

I'm more confused by the allegation that Star Trek: Beyond lost money at the box office.  From what I'd read, it didn't do great but it still represented a significant recovery from the mess that was Star Trek: Into Darkness.  If Beyond really did finish in the red, what the hell is Pine thinking pretending he can ask for more money.

 

27 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Now that sounds like ego (which makes sense: the best that Pine has ever done was being a 'fratboi' captain... and drive a GE AC4400CW. Hemsworth probably thinks he's worth* more because he's been a god or such, several times over)

*See what I did

Yeah, Pine is definitely reaching by demanding A-list payscale in a Star Trek movie when his only other noteworthy appearance was as Wonder Woman's generic boyfriend (I looked up the character's name not five minutes ago and have already forgotten it).

Hemsworth has a better argument, having been in several of Marvel's top-grossing superhero movies as [a/the] main character.  He has a good thing going as Thor, so for him Star Trek kind of is a step down.

[tekering]

49 minutes ago, TehPW said:

Now that sounds like ego

3 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, Pine is definitely reaching by demanding A-list payscale in a Star Trek movie

This has nothing to do with ego -- at least, not the actors' egos.  Hollywood is infested with parasitic leeches known as "agents," whose primary purpose is to artificially inflate a film's budget in order to secure a larger salary for their clients (and by extension, themselves), and often negotiate in bad faith with studios just to squeeze every dollar they can out of 'em.  The process is usually kept out of the public eye, but there are some infamous (and well-documented) examples:

• Joe Chappelle wanted Danielle Harris back for Halloween 6, Harris wanted to return for Halloween 6, but her agent screwed up the negotiations.
• Joss Whedon wanted Edward Norton back for The Avengers, Norton wanted to return for The Avengers, but his agent screwed up the negotiations.
• Jon Favreau wanted Terrence Howard back for Iron Man 2, Howard wanted to return for Iron Man 2, but his agent screwed up the negotiations.

Hiring the right agent (and keeping them reigned in) is of course the actor's responsibility, but things can quickly escalate out of the actor's control.  We can't lay the blame entirely on the agents, but I doubt it's Chris & Chris causing the problem here.

5 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I'm more confused by the allegation that Star Trek: Beyond lost money at the box office.  From what I'd read, it didn't do great but it still represented a significant recovery from the mess that was Star Trek: Into Darkness.

Creatively, it was a significant recovery; financially, it was not.  Into Darkness grossed more than $120 million more than Beyond did.

[technoblue]

11 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Yeah, Pine is definitely reaching by demanding A-list payscale in a Star Trek movie when his only other noteworthy appearance was as Wonder Woman's generic boyfriend (I looked up the character's name not five minutes ago and have already forgotten it).

Hemsworth has a better argument, having been in several of Marvel's top-grossing superhero movies as [a/the] main character.  He has a good thing going as Thor, so for him Star Trek kind of is a step down.

You mean Steve Trevor?

As a character, I think Steve Trevor rates higher than a generic boyfriend. He has been in the comic since 1941! Not to mention other media. Trevor was a main character in the Lynda Carter 1970s/80s TV series too. I  think Trevor has more often been portrayed as a friend and a confidant of Diana's, especially recently in the comics where they seem more interested in hooking up supers with other supers.

Anyway, I thought Pine did a good job in Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman. His role was toned down, which made sense since the focus was more on Diana's origin story than on the wily tales of Trevor and his covert special ops team. 

OT: I have to agree with @tekering. This seems less to do with what the actors want to do (or their schedules) and more to do with what the actors' agents are trying to wring out of the studios. Hopefully, something can be worked out because I also liked how ST: Beyond was putting JJ Trek back on its (admittedly) shaky rails. and would like to see more of that and less of JJ's Wrath of Khan.

[Petrov27]

Maybe they have seen the script (time travel adventure yawn) and are just saying, wow thats crap - you are gonna have to pay me more to be in this potentially career damaging movie as otherwise im out...

[SMS007]

If each Star Trek movie had its own thread on this forum, then should a mod split this discussion into its own thread?

[Dynaman]

As for the Agent screwing it up.  Not in this instance, each actor knows this movie is on the table and can and will tell the agent what they are willing to take - blaming the agent is not applicable in this case.  My guess it is a negotiation and Pine at lest will be in the movie.  If not then the movie will go on without him.  It would have been different if this were 30 years ago and it was Shatner refusing but Pine is just another guy playing Kirk at this point.

[azrael]

38 minutes ago, SMS007 said:

If each Star Trek movie had its own thread on this forum, then should a mod split this discussion into its own thread?

Kiddo, you'll learn that people are very lazy and don't use a search engine to search for stuff.

Star Trek Into Darkness

Star Trek Beyond

Star Trek (2009)

etc...

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

As for the Agent screwing it up.  Not in this instance, each actor knows this movie is on the table and can and will tell the agent what they are willing to take - blaming the agent is not applicable in this case.  My guess it is a negotiation and Pine at lest will be in the movie.  If not then the movie will go on without him.  It would have been different if this were 30 years ago and it was Shatner refusing but Pine is just another guy playing Kirk at this point.

True. You make a valid point. Although these negotiations are private and just because the actors walked away once doesn't mean that they won't come back to work something out later. I guess we will have to wait to see how things shake out.

As for Discovery, I think it is following the trend of modern-day Trek, which is to say the "boldly go" intelligent exploration aspect takes a back seat to mindless action and extreme conflict. It would be nice to see that change in the second season, but I'm not holding my breath. What disappoints me most about Discovery is how the pilot episode set up a series that never came to be: one with Captain Georgiou and Burnham, and the crew of the USS Shenzhou.

I wanted to see more of that series. I was very curious to see the Shenzhou and another interpretation of the early days of Starfleet (without the Enterprise, or an Enterprise-named ship, taking center stage). Oh well.

[TehPW]

6 hours ago, azrael said:

Kiddo, you'll learn that people are very lazy and don't use a search engine to search for stuff.

Star Trek Into Darkness

Star Trek Beyond

Star Trek (2009)

etc...

It's better to contain the discussion here, since STD is currently the only active topic on anything Star Trek (besides, you MODS always* lock down frivolous threads when there IS a better thread to use, via search. Remember the thread on picture taking? I still do). 

 

*We still love you, but you guys ARE annoying when you do that...

[David Hingtgen]

21 hours ago, Mommar said:

Okay... the first movie sucks, the second movie involves Khan and sucks, the third movie the Enterprise gets destroyed and almost sucks, the fourth is supposed to involve time travel.   They really are going to ape every single beat from the original films aren't they?  I guess the fifth one will be low budget and stupid and the sixth one they'll blow up Praxis and fight a cloaked ship!

But if they give Sulu the Excelsior in #6, it’ll be awesome.  

[Dynaman]

38 minutes ago, David Hingtgen said:

But if they give Sulu the Excelsior in #6, it’ll be awesome.  

If the negotiations with Pine don't go well he may get it in 4...

[JB0]

1 hour ago, Dynaman said:

If the negotiations with Pine don't go well he may get it in 4...

I'd be okay with that.