Star Trek: Discovery

[wm cheng]

8 hours ago, Dobber said:

I liked the first episode, but unfortunately won't be seeing the rest of the series....at least until it either it becomes available on another service that is commonly used or will just buy the season once it is finished (assuming it will be for sale) I refuse to reward CBS for fleecing the American fan base by putting the show behind ANOTHER pay wall....that 1) the show was already paid for by Netflix, 2) All Access has ad revenue by still including commercials...which you can pay even more money to them to remove 3) already pay for CBS by paying for satellite or cable. People keep complaining about corporate greed and the high price of things but then keep buying. Nothing will change if we give them what they want. If you want to pay for it, obviously that's your prerogative, I just can't do it. I worry it'll set a bad precedent and other networks will follow suit.

Chris

That's exactly how I feel too!

 

2 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

I feel I might have been kinder to it if it didn't have Star Trek in the title, because it really doesn't feel like a Star Trek series.  

Yes!!!  Why attach yourself to Star Trek when you are not going to use any of the Star Trek lore or designs?

 

With all the pre-production and production woes, you'd think they would finally get the premier airing right, but it got delayed 20mins in Canada (I PVRed it) so I lost out on the last 20mins, and they switched to the Space Channel to air the second episode back to back, whereas the Network CBS only aired the first episode.  So when I found out, I PVRed the second episode only to also have that one delayed and the last 20mins cuts out of my recording.  ARGH!

[Dobber]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

In "The Cage" didn't Pike say they were using lasers and that the Enterprise had the "new" phasers on board? This show takes place very near "The Cage" and the Constitution class should already be launched. The Enterprise under the command of Robert April.

Just checked my facts..."The Cage"  and discovery are exactly the same time period so Christopher Pike is in command of Enterprise at this time. Robert April already completed his 5 year mission with the Enterprise. Enterprise was launched in 2245 so it is at least 5 years old by the time of Discovery.

Chris

[GMK]

Watched it last night - seriously impressed!

[Primus1X]

Are they going to retcon Kahless as being one of these proto Klingons that look closer to the organism Worf devolved into? Or maybe they co-existed with the Post-TMP Klingons just as they presumably coexisted with the TOS Klingons. If Kahless is a post-TMP type Klingon it raises the question why would these proto Klingons would follow him.

[Graham]

Watched the first episode with my 13 year old son last night. We both enjoyed it. I was actually quite impressed by it.

Will watch the second episode tonight.

I'm more of a casual Star Trek fan (although I've watched all the series and movies, with the exception of Enterprise), so things like continuity conflicts with the other series don't really bother me too much.

Glad we get it on Netflix here in Hong Kong, along with all the other Star Trek Series

[derex3592]

That is the strangest title sequence I've ever seen.... 

[spanner]

going to watch the first ep tonight if I get the chance. Seen a lot of positive and negative feedback on it so I'm hoping for the best.

[renegadeleader1]

8 hours ago, wm cheng said:

 

 

Yes!!!  Why attach yourself to Star Trek when you are not going to use any of the Star Trek lore or designs?

 

 

Name recognition. Most studios aren't willing to take a chance on an original big budget sci fi series. That and the whole "reboot for a new generation!" BS.

[Graham]

I've decided I'm no longer referring to the Discovery Klingons as Klingons. From now I am going to call them Space Orcs.......LOL

[Seto Kaiba]

8 hours ago, Dobber said:

In "The Cage" didn't Pike say they were using lasers and that the Enterprise had the "new" phasers on board? This show takes place very near "The Cage" and the Constitution class should already be launched. The Enterprise under the command of Robert April.

Pretty much, yeah... though from what I understand, even before Enterprise came along and reduced the laser pistols from the Star Trek "The Cage" pilot to Canon Discontinuity, the Star Trek staff just sort of ignores the problem.  Later episodes of TOS reused the laser pistol prop (e.g. "What Are Little Girls Made Of?", "The Man Trap") and explicitly identified it as an older model phaser pistol in the final draft of the script.

By the time Star Trek: Discovery is set (2255), the Constitution-class USS Enterprise (NCC-1701) would've been in service for about ten years.  We know Spock served under Captain Pike for over 11 years on Enterprise, and we know his successor Kirk's five year mission was 2265-2270, so the captain of the Enterprise during the events of Star Trek: Discovery ought to be Christopher Pike at about a year into his tenure in the big chair.

 

7 hours ago, wm cheng said:

Yes!!!  Why attach yourself to Star Trek when you are not going to use any of the Star Trek lore or designs?

Or, even worse, why would the show attach itself to the Prime Continuity when they're going to play fast and loose with canon and continuity?  We've only had the two episodes, and they've already got technology showing up in Discovery over a century before it's supposed to have been developed in prior Prime Continuity stories... never mind the whole "sister Spock never spoke about" thing.

Playing fast and loose with canon in prequels already bit them in the ass once in Enterprise... did they not learn their lesson?

 

 

3 hours ago, Primus1X said:

Are they going to retcon Kahless as being one of these proto Klingons that look closer to the organism Worf devolved into? Or maybe they co-existed with the Post-TMP Klingons just as they presumably coexisted with the TOS Klingons. If Kahless is a post-TMP type Klingon it raises the question why would these proto Klingons would follow him.

Eh, I dunno... it's highly probable that this Klingon cult's personal artistic interpretation of Kahless the Unforgettable will resemble their distinctive appearance, in much the same way the mental image the augment virus-affected Klingons in TOS had of Kahless was as a fellow TOS Klingon instead of as a historically accurate TNG Klingon.  (Kahless is a religious figure after all, and without getting unduly specific we know that in the real world it's quite common for artists to "reinterpret" the ethnicity of mythical and/or mytho-historical individuals to suit their patrons and/or personal tastes.)

It may simply be that the Discovery Klingons are a minority ethnic group or something, like the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine relaunch did with the Trill in Worlds of Deep Space Nine... establishing that the TNG version of the Trill were a racial minority among the Trill who coexist with the DS9 Trill majority.

[Knight26]

My thoughts on the show.
Call a spade a spade, it is a reboot.
While there are some redeeming qualities to the show, it is bogged down by massive inconsistencies in the writing and designs. While many of the props are nice homages to TOS designs, and the new Batleth actually looks functional (it's naginata with extra blades) the ship designs fit no known trek era. The Klingon ships follow none of the traditional design cues and the Federations ships look like they belong post Next-Gen, with many having rectangular or hexagonal nacelle cross sections and saucers that do not fit the TOS or pre-TOS design ethos.
Then there are serious writing issues.
The characters make decisions that do not fit their character.
A spacesuit that can propel the wearer in excess of 15000KPH with no side effects.
Taking a capital ship to (maximum) 500 ft AGL and then teleporting personnel aboard.
Full body holograms that interact with the environment.
In short, a lot of sloppy writing, and tech issues that push it out of the timeframe it is supposed to take place in. Call a spade a spade, it's another reboot, and it's not off to a great start.

[TehPW]

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

My thoughts on the show.
Call a spade a spade, it is a reboot.
While there are some redeeming qualities to the show, it is bogged down by massive inconsistencies in the writing and designs. While many of the props are nice homages to TOS designs, and the new Batleth actually looks functional (it's naginata with extra blades) the ship designs fit no known trek era. The Klingon ships follow none of the traditional design cues and the Federations ships look like they belong post Next-Gen, with many having rectangular or hexagonal nacelle cross sections and saucers that do not fit the TOS or pre-TOS design ethos.
Then there are serious writing issues.
The characters make decisions that do not fit their character.
A spacesuit that can propel the wearer in excess of 15000KPH with no side effects.
Taking a capital ship to (maximum) 500 ft AGL and then teleporting personnel aboard.
Full body holograms that interact with the environment.
In short, a lot of sloppy writing, and tech issues that push it out of the timeframe it is supposed to take place in. Call a spade a spade, it's another reboot, and it's not off to a great start.

You will find that legal reasons dictate what the Feddy & Kilngon ships look like (ie, not much at all like previous designs)...

[Seto Kaiba]

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/star-trek-discovery-is-getting-pirated-a-lot/

It seems the tech-savvy public is expressing their feelings about CBS All Access rather clearly...

[azrael]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/star-trek-discovery-is-getting-pirated-a-lot/

It seems the tech-savvy public is expressing their feelings about CBS All Access rather clearly...

Of course. People are already paying for Netflix, Amazon, (now that Handmaid's Tale won an Emmy, Hulu). Disney is getting into this stupid mix soon. We're paying for all this subscription madness. Who wouldn't pirate these shows?

[Sandman]

21 hours ago, wm cheng said:

That's exactly how I feel too!

 

Yes!!!  Why attach yourself to Star Trek when you are not going to use any of the Star Trek lore or designs?

 

With all the pre-production and production woes, you'd think they would finally get the premier airing right, but it got delayed 20mins in Canada (I PVRed it) so I lost out on the last 20mins, and they switched to the Space Channel to air the second episode back to back, whereas the Network CBS only aired the first episode.  So when I found out, I PVRed the second episode only to also have that one delayed and the last 20mins cuts out of my recording.  ARGH!

Same thing happened to me. Frickin rookie mistake on Space channel's part. Way to screw the people who pvr stuff.

Gotta love the CBS tactic of showing only half the pilot on their channel and expect people to jump into all access to finish watching the pilot.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Sandman

[Sandman]

3 hours ago, Seto Kaiba said:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/star-trek-discovery-is-getting-pirated-a-lot/

It seems the tech-savvy public is expressing their feelings about CBS All Access rather clearly...

This was a given. CBS was stupid to not anticipate this.

[Seto Kaiba]

12 minutes ago, azrael said:

Of course. People are already paying for Netflix, Amazon, (now that Handmaid's Tale won an Emmy, Hulu). Disney is getting into this stupid mix soon. We're paying for all this subscription madness. Who wouldn't pirate these shows?

Granted, that Star Trek: Discovery would be a highly pirated show was pretty much inevitable the minute CBS announced it would be carried only on CBS All Access.  I just wasn't expecting pirates hitting it so hard right out of the gate, seemingly as a rebuke to CBS for their idiotic move.  I had figured we'd see a spike in piracy around the time the third episode was set to "air".

 

11 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Same thing happened to me. Frickin rookie mistake on Space channel's part. Way to screw the people who pvr stuff.

Gotta love the CBS tactic of showing only half the pilot on their channel and expect people to jump into all access to finish watching the pilot.

Between CBS's aggressively viewer-hostile handling of the pilot and that complete idiot Jason Isaacs challenging the established fanbase not to follow the series, one has to wonder if Discovery will end up a "one and done" Star Trek series for the first time in the franchise's history.  As unimpressive as the pilot was, I'd say fifteen episodes and out would almost be preferable.

[Sandman]

38 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

Granted, that Star Trek: Discovery would be a highly pirated show was pretty much inevitable the minute CBS announced it would be carried only on CBS All Access.  I just wasn't expecting pirates hitting it so hard right out of the gate, seemingly as a rebuke to CBS for their idiotic move.  I had figured we'd see a spike in piracy around the time the third episode was set to "air".

 

Between CBS's aggressively viewer-hostile handling of the pilot and that complete idiot Jason Isaacs challenging the established fanbase not to follow the series, one has to wonder if Discovery will end up a "one and done" Star Trek series for the first time in the franchise's history.  As unimpressive as the pilot was, I'd say fifteen episodes and out would almost be preferable.

Industry rumors state that this is CBS's backup plan if Discovery doesn't do well. They'll claim it was only meant to be one season and do something different the next season (like American Horror Story does) or replace it with the rumored Nicholas Meyer Khan series.

[azrael]

But the corollary to this is, subscriptions went up and app downloads rose.
Star Trek: Discovery’ Drives CBS Mobile App Downloads Up by 64% (Study)

So relative to the situation, looks like they might come out even. But as I mentioned, Disney is launching their own streaming service and you don't even need to bet that will have their own original content (likely ABC's content will be rolled into this too). This is, unfortunately, going to be, the norm soon. Deny and hate it all you want.

[Seto Kaiba]

56 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Industry rumors state that this is CBS's backup plan if Discovery doesn't do well. They'll claim it was only meant to be one season and do something different the next season (like American Horror Story does) or replace it with the rumored Nicholas Meyer Khan series.

Being a one-and-done would be an amusing bit of karma considering how dismissive they've been of the existing fans...

 

13 minutes ago, azrael said:

But the corollary to this is, subscriptions went up and app downloads rose.
Star Trek: Discovery’ Drives CBS Mobile App Downloads Up by 64% (Study)

So relative to the situation, looks like they might come out even.

In the short term, maybe... it's all down to whether or not they can present more content that will actually keep people there, and whether Star Trek: Discovery will be enough of a draw to keep the ones who took out trial subscriptions there long term.  They wouldn't be the first network to try a streaming service and massively overestimate the potential audience for same.

 

Quote

But as I mentioned, Disney is launching their own streaming service and you don't even need to bet that will have their own original content (likely ABC's content will be rolled into this too). This is, unfortunately, going to be, the norm soon. Deny and hate it all you want.

There's been a lot of back-and-forth about whether Disney was going to pull its content from other streaming services, and last I heard they had backed down on that one... so we'll see if anything is going to actually come of that.

[azrael]

10 minutes ago, Seto Kaiba said:

There's been a lot of back-and-forth about whether Disney was going to pull its content from other streaming services, and last I heard they had backed down on that one... so we'll see if anything is going to actually come of that.

Disney To End Distribution Agreement With Netflix, Launch Streaming Service
It will start in 2019 beginning with the movies and likely work it's way down the pipeline over time.

[Primus1X]

Spoiler

Seen episode 2, quite disappointed as to how the Klingons from the other houses are also redesigined. I wanted them to show the smooth-headed Augmented Klingons, modern hairy Klingons and these hairless four-nostrilled Klingons fighting side by side.

 

[Chronocidal]

2 hours ago, azrael said:

But the corollary to this is, subscriptions went up and app downloads rose.
Star Trek: Discovery’ Drives CBS Mobile App Downloads Up by 64% (Study)

So relative to the situation, looks like they might come out even. But as I mentioned, Disney is launching their own streaming service and you don't even need to bet that will have their own original content (likely ABC's content will be rolled into this too). This is, unfortunately, going to be, the norm soon. Deny and hate it all you want.

One thing to keep in mind about the increase in app downloads and subscriptions... they offer a trial period.  We won't know how successful they may be until those trials expire, and all the people who signed up just for the pilot episode bail out.

[Primus1X]

Discovery....robotic helmets...space opera

 

Why is this familiar?

Edited September 27, 2017 by Primus1X

[Graham]

The fact that the technology looks way in advance of TOS era and that the Klingon ships look completely different to anything we've seen before doesn't bother me at all.

As I mentioned, I'm just a casual fan and I just rationalize it as an alternate reality where the Federation and the Klingons developed differently.

 

What does bother me is why only the Captain and Michael boarded the Kliingon ship. Why not take a larger fully armed raiding party of say 6 to 10 people to maximize the chance of mission success

Anyway, I'm interested enough after the first two episodes to continue watching and see where they take this show.

[azrael]

1 hour ago, Graham said:

  Hide contents

What does bother me is why only the Captain and Michael boarded the Kliingon ship. Why not take a larger fully armed raiding party of say 6 to 10 people to maximize the chance of mission success

 

Likely power. Main power and weapons were offline. Multiple hull breaches. Power failing on multiple decks. If they wanted to beam them back and still be able to get away in time, they likely had to minimize transporter usage.
My question was why not beam the captain back using her com-signal. Or did they need the life sign for that to work?

[Knight26]

9 hours ago, azrael said:

 

  Hide contents

Likely power. Main power and weapons were offline. Multiple hull breaches. Power failing on multiple decks. If they wanted to beam them back and still be able to get away in time, they likely had to minimize transporter usage.
My question was why not beam the captain back using her com-signal. Or did they need the life sign for that to work?

 

This is an issue with Trek that has always bothered me.  Why send the two highest ranking officers on the ship on away missions, especially assault/capture missions?  It make zero sense.  At least TNG typically had away missions led by the second and first officers, with the captain only coming down as necessary.  Also, the inability to lock back onto the captain was just moronic.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

This is an issue with Trek that has always bothered me.  Why send the two highest ranking officers on the ship on away missions, especially assault/capture missions?  It make zero sense.

Starfleet has pretty consistently agreed on that score ever since Star Trek: the Next Generation... which shows, if nothing else, that Starfleet at least learned SOMETHING from all those times that Kirk's Enterprise sent the CO, XO, and CMO down together and they all got captured.  Discovery's set during those cowboy days of exploration, so it's less surprising that they'd send the ship's two ranking officers into danger like that.  (Even less so, given that we've known since the earliest of Discovery's teaser trailers that Michelle Yeoh's character was earmarked for death in the pilot.)

(IIRC, when Picard was speaking at Riker's wedding in Nemesis, he jokingly complained that Riker leaving to take command of the USS Titan left him stuck with a first officer who was a "tyrannical martinet who will never, EVER allow [him] to go on away missions".)

 

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

Also, the inability to lock back onto the captain was just moronic.

Unfortunately, that's just one drop of piss in the septic tank of bad writing in the Discovery pilot...

[Knight26]

The show's writing was so bad that even one of my five scenes fixes wouldn't work.  It was Into Darkness bad.

[Seto Kaiba]

1 hour ago, Knight26 said:

The show's writing was so bad that even one of my five scenes fixes wouldn't work.  It was Into Darkness bad.

Y'know, I would've disagreed... then I found a commentary-free plot summary of "The Vulcan Hello", and seeing it all laid out in a neatly worded, objective summary of the episode was a bit of a shock.

As long as you don't actually think about what's going on, the pilot for Star Trek: Discovery feels on the weak side but not untenably so apart from the fact that Commander Burnham is dumber than a Pakled and clearly the worst cretin to ever don the uniform.  Once you actually examine it... oy...

 

Spoiler

About the only part of the show's cold open that actually makes sense on examination was the speech by T'Kuvma (an oddly Vulcan name for a Klingon?) about the Federation's expansionist (but peaceful) methods being seen as a threat to the Klingon Empire.

Nothing about what Captain Georgiou and Commander Burnham are doing makes sense.  The entire Crepusculan civilization is dependent on the water from a single well?!  That's beyond insane right there... but they top it by saying the planet's set for an 89 year drought (a major event that'd obliterate the water table anyway), and that the well drying up was caused by some kind of space radiation?  What the hell kind of space radiation causes well blockages, because the well clearly isn't dry like they claim when one phaser shot causes a geyser.

To cap it, they keep yattering about how the planet is subject to Starfleet General Order 1... the Prime Directive, which says Starfleet isn't allowed to interfere in the natural development of any alien species or civilization.  By even being there, let alone intervening to save the species from extinction or considering making contact if they can't get out, they're already violating the hell out of the Prime Directive... made worse by the fact that their signal to be picked by a VERY visible low-flying starship was a colossal Starfleet delta, and the fact that they were seen.  In the past I've accused Janeway and EU Riker of being reckless destabilizers of civilizations, but it seems Georgiou and Burnham are possibly even worse... since they're pretending they aren't violating the Prime Directive rather than simply blowing it off as a necessary evil.

 

All that, and that's before the plot actually starts.

The event that kickstarts the entire plot of the pilot should have been impossible if the crew of the USS Shenzou contained a single competent scientist or anyone who passed a basic physics class.  An asteroid impact in a vacuum WOULDN'T CAUSE FLASH BURNS.

 

And I haven't even SEEN the second half... but already, I have a feeling Michael Burnham is shaping up to be every bit as obnoxious as Wesley.

[Scyla]

Saw the first two episodes on Netflix and I generally enjoyed it. Two remarks

The opening is odd it looks more like an intro to Star Trek: Mythbusters where they look at how the tech in Star Trek looks. It doesn't fit to the series it tries to introduce. That is the same feeling that I got from the opening for Star Trek - Enterprise. What does this have to to with the show I don't get it.

The other thing was:

I don't understand why the Captain (Michelle Yeoh) needs to beam to the bridge of the Klingon capital ship. Sure I understand there needs to be a reason to kill her off to create character motivation, drama and an exit for Michelle Yeoh so she's not bothered by any more ST acting. But couldn't they achieve this any other way I mean it was already Michaels "fault" to get the whole issue started so killing her during the battle on the bridge should achieve the same way.

For the commander that is soon to be court-martialled for attacking his captain to go on a suicide mission to try to make wrongs right seems appropriate (especially if you have Vulcan super powers). For the captain of a ship that is still endangered by the enemy this doesn't make much sense to me.

Other than that I'm stoked to find out what happens next. The main character seems to be interesting and I wonder how the Klingon situation continues.

I'm also not a fan that the Klingons don't look like the ones I know from TNG and DS9 which I grew up with. I could accept that one splinter terrorist organization looks different.

[Chronocidal]

Probably water under the bridge at this point (... hah.), but did they basically just sweep the origin of the Starfleet logo under the rug, or retcon it completely?

[Mommar]

I think the intro to Enterprise made way more sense than Discovery.  Say what you will about Rod Stewart, at least the scenes were all about exploration leading up to the NX... if only the show kept up with that actual premise.

[Seto Kaiba]

6 hours ago, Mommar said:

I think the intro to Enterprise made way more sense than Discovery.  Say what you will about Rod Stewart, at least the scenes were all about exploration leading up to the NX... if only the show kept up with that actual premise.

Enterprise's OP had a kind of logical continuity to it... not s'much an exploration angle as a "lineage" thing leading up to the titular NX-01 Enterprise even before the show adopted the Star Trek title in full.  Nice of them to invent a few to pad the pictures out for that opening too... IIRC they completely forgot to draw the portraits for Archer's room until the day before shooting was due to start and the artist had to make a mad scramble to get at least pencil sketches ready for framing.

(One of the relaunch novels offers some more details on some of the original predecessor designs made for that OP, esp. the one with the ring structure... apparently a human attempt to imitate the Vulcan coleoptaric warp drive.)

[JB0]

In fairness, I took it as being more the lineage of human exploration than the lineage of the name Enterprise, particularly given how many non-Enterprise vessels are featured.  Never mind that the HMS Enterprize featured in the opening was ACTUALLY a warship, it was still representative of an era of exploration. It shows a continual path of pushing boundaries, moving frontiers, reaching further into the unknown. Well, except for the ISS following Apollo, but we take the world we have, not the world we want. (Shouldn't the outbreak of the Eugenics Wars have prevented the construction of the ISS, though?)

The NX-01 is presented as the next step in that proud history, both in the opening and the early premise for the show itself. It is, sadly, a premise the show never followed through on.

"Our first warp-5 vessel! We can go so much farther now than ever before! We can explore strange new worlds! Boldly go where no man has gone before... or we can use you as a diplomatic courier vessel. My bad."