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Posted
  On 1/2/2021 at 10:27 PM, pengbuzz said:

Normally, I'd say Captain Kirk is due to beam onto Discovery just to slap the crew, but I think even William Shatner is hesitant to have anything to do with this dumpster fire on a trainwreck in space....

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Maybe they can get Chris Pine to do it.

Posted
  On 1/2/2021 at 10:27 PM, pengbuzz said:

Sigh... Discovery has managed to sink even further into stupidity than I ever thought possible. It's gotten so bad that even my concept for a Star Trek series is beginning to look promising (just need to revamp the uniforms and perhaps adjust the storyline).

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Star Trek: Discovery is a show with a lot of different problems... but you can distill most of the show's issues down to just a few basic points:

  1. Discovery's showrunners and writers do not care for Star Trek
    As was explicitly the case with J.J. Abrams, it truly feels like Discovery's showrunners do not want to be working on Star Trek and don't have any real idea of how to write in a science fiction setting that isn't just a big sandbox for a never-ending series of interstellar armed conflicts like Star WarsBattlestar Galactica, or Warhammer 40,000.
     
  2. Discovery's showrunners and writers DO NOT do their research.
    These writers are working in a shared universe and don't seem to want to check to make sure that the stories they want to do actually make sense in the context of the established setting.  Worse than that, they don't seem to want to go to the lengths previous Star Trek showrunners and writers did in terms of making sure their science makes sense and is internally consistent.  The whole idea of tardigrades and horizontal DNA transfer was a published study that was retracted well before the show's first season came out because the experiment's results couldn't be reproduced and were later determined to be sample cross-contamination in testing.  Other concepts in the series are just completely unscientific nonsense like Saru's homeworld food chain or the entire situation with Control wanting to evolve into a self-aware AI.
     
  3. Discovery's showrunners have their priorities all wrong when it comes to special effects.
    This isn't just that ships like the Shengzhou and Discovery look much more advanced than their 23rd century counterparts from previous shows.  The showrunners consistently overspend on unnecessary - and unnecessarily complicated - digital VFX for things that don't need it and then cut corners all over the place where it actually counts and is really obvious.  This tendency has only become more blatant now that they've moved to the 32nd century.  The Discovery's spinning saucer section is something that was near-universally mocked the minute it came to light and a bunch of other ships have tons of unnecessary moving parts.  Booker's Nautilus is probably the worst offender since, on several occasions, it's shown to come apart into something like a dozen different pieces and reconfigure itself for no clear reason.  This also shows up in digital set design and nonphysical props like the seed vault ship in which the seed vault is made up of a bunch of stacked rings of storage cells which counterrotate against each other for no reason, the gravity projector Tilly uses to capture that asteroid at the start of season two that starts out about the size of a manhole cover and unfolds into dozens of moving parts and ends up being at least the size of a family car, and Burnham's Red Angel suit that unfolds a massive set of unnecessary wings out of nowhere.  Probably the worst example of the corner-cutting is the new combadges.  These new combadges are not just the Starfleet badge and a long-range communications device, now they're also rank insignia, a personal transporter, a tricorder, and a PADD, all with a badly rendered purely holographic interface so the characters using them in any given circumstance are now just left gesticulating wildly into the air like they're conducting an invisible orchestra or operating an invisible telephone switchboard.  The best part is the interfaces for all of these look exactly the same, so we have no idea if someone is attempting to beam away, scanning the area, or just frantically dictating their last will and testament at any given time.  Other terrible examples include a proliferation of purely green-screened sets where characters do nothing but stand around and talk while the animators run an old-school OpenGL screensaver in the background like the episode with the Tal symbiont.

 

  9 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

Normally, I'd say Captain Kirk is due to beam onto Discovery just to slap the crew, but I think even William Shatner is hesitant to have anything to do with this dumpster fire on a trainwreck in space....

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Bill Shatner is also probably not someone the creators want to bring back.  He was a difficult guy to work with back when he was a regular, and he's burned a lot of bridges since.

 

  On 1/2/2021 at 11:42 PM, JB0 said:

Maybe they can get Chris Pine to do it.

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That's like trying to treat someone's cancer by giving them syphilis.

Posted

Scavengers (DSC 3x06)

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Posted
  On 1/3/2021 at 8:52 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

Star Trek: Discovery is a show with a lot of different problems... but you can distill most of the show's issues down to just a few basic points:

  1. Discovery's showrunners and writers do not care for Star Trek
    As was explicitly the case with J.J. Abrams, it truly feels like Discovery's showrunners do not want to be working on Star Trek and don't have any real idea of how to write in a science fiction setting that isn't just a big sandbox for a never-ending series of interstellar armed conflicts like Star WarsBattlestar Galactica, or Warhammer 40,000.
     
  2. Discovery's showrunners and writers DO NOT do their research.
    These writers are working in a shared universe and don't seem to want to check to make sure that the stories they want to do actually make sense in the context of the established setting.  Worse than that, they don't seem to want to go to the lengths previous Star Trek showrunners and writers did in terms of making sure their science makes sense and is internally consistent.  The whole idea of tardigrades and horizontal DNA transfer was a published study that was retracted well before the show's first season came out because the experiment's results couldn't be reproduced and were later determined to be sample cross-contamination in testing.  Other concepts in the series are just completely unscientific nonsense like Saru's homeworld food chain or the entire situation with Control wanting to evolve into a self-aware AI.
     
  3. Discovery's showrunners have their priorities all wrong when it comes to special effects.
    This isn't just that ships like the Shengzhou and Discovery look much more advanced than their 23rd century counterparts from previous shows.  The showrunners consistently overspend on unnecessary - and unnecessarily complicated - digital VFX for things that don't need it and then cut corners all over the place where it actually counts and is really obvious.  This tendency has only become more blatant now that they've moved to the 32nd century.  The Discovery's spinning saucer section is something that was near-universally mocked the minute it came to light and a bunch of other ships have tons of unnecessary moving parts.  Booker's Nautilus is probably the worst offender since, on several occasions, it's shown to come apart into something like a dozen different pieces and reconfigure itself for no clear reason.  This also shows up in digital set design and nonphysical props like the seed vault ship in which the seed vault is made up of a bunch of stacked rings of storage cells which counterrotate against each other for no reason, the gravity projector Tilly uses to capture that asteroid at the start of season two that starts out about the size of a manhole cover and unfolds into dozens of moving parts and ends up being at least the size of a family car, and Burnham's Red Angel suit that unfolds a massive set of unnecessary wings out of nowhere.  Probably the worst example of the corner-cutting is the new combadges.  These new combadges are not just the Starfleet badge and a long-range communications device, now they're also rank insignia, a personal transporter, a tricorder, and a PADD, all with a badly rendered purely holographic interface so the characters using them in any given circumstance are now just left gesticulating wildly into the air like they're conducting an invisible orchestra or operating an invisible telephone switchboard.  The best part is the interfaces for all of these look exactly the same, so we have no idea if someone is attempting to beam away, scanning the area, or just frantically dictating their last will and testament at any given time.  Other terrible examples include a proliferation of purely green-screened sets where characters do nothing but stand around and talk while the animators run an old-school OpenGL screensaver in the background like the episode with the Tal symbiont.

 

 

Bill Shatner is also probably not someone the creators want to bring back.  He was a difficult guy to work with back when he was a regular, and he's burned a lot of bridges since.

 

That's like trying to treat someone's cancer by giving them syphilis.

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Yeah...it's pretty obvious they don't care (otherwise they WOULD do their blasted research, amongst other things). Number one largely feeds into number two, and drops "number two" all over the franchise).

Posted

Unification III (DSC 3x07)

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Posted
  On 1/3/2021 at 10:10 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's also kind of annoying that Discovery's crew adopt the new Starfleet badge but NOT the contemporary 32nd century Starfleet uniform.  It really gives off the impression that they're being treated as the special-est of snowflakes. 

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Reserving some room for deniability when the crew does something stupid.

 

"Look, if they were REALLY operating under the Federation's authorization, don't you think we'd at least send them a crate of the current pajamas instead of however-many-centuries old the absolute rags they're in now are?"

 

Surely everyone in the galaxy knows how much the Federation likes changing uniforms by now and will take it as a given that only a rogue crew would be wearing an old design.

Posted
  On 1/3/2021 at 10:43 AM, pengbuzz said:

Yeah...it's pretty obvious they don't care (otherwise they WOULD do their blasted research, amongst other things).

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It's quite bizarre how they can do their research incredibly well in a few isolated places and do an absolutely terrible job of it everywhere else.

Every now and then they'll reference obscure points of Star Trek lore and follow it up with middle school-level failures of basic science.

Which isn't to say that previous Star Trek titles didn't also occasionally exhibit massive research failures.  One of the most common recurring ones is medical officers pushing the enormously unscientific concepts of goal-oriented evolution and evolutionary levels: evolution following a set series of steps and that lifeforms evolving towards having a specific form or ability.  This is the crux of at least seven entire pre-Abrams episodes including "The Omega Glory" (TOS), "Genesis" (TNG), "Transfigurations" (TNG), "Pen Pals" (TNG), "The Chase" (TNG), "Threshold" (VOY), and "Dear Doctor" (ENT).  There are also a number of rather egregious recurring ones involving distance in TOS and the TOS movies WRT the distance from Earth to the edge/center of the galaxy (in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and Star Trek V), and a lot of really bizarre moments where the writers forgot about conservation of matter or energy.

It's just Discovery has a far greater density of this kind of blatant cockup than any previous title.

 

  1 hour ago, pengbuzz said:

Number one largely feeds into number two, and drops "number two" all over the franchise).

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... you a +1 from me for that, btw.

 

 

  On 1/3/2021 at 11:26 AM, JB0 said:

Reserving some room for deniability when the crew does something stupid.

 

"Look, if they were REALLY operating under the Federation's authorization, don't you think we'd at least send them a crate of the current pajamas instead of however-many-centuries old the absolute rags they're in now are?"

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In hindsight, it's rather odd that even groups that have regular contact with the Federation like the Emerald Chain never remark that the Discovery crew are claiming to be Federation Starfleet officers and yet aren't wearing contemporary Starfleet uniforms.

They never question it.

 

  1 hour ago, JB0 said:

Surely everyone in the galaxy knows how much the Federation likes changing uniforms by now and will take it as a given that only a rogue crew would be wearing an old design.

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One of my favorite details that I learned as a result of various fans complaining about how often Starfleet changes its uniform design is that it's Truth in Television... the US Army has made minor or major changes to its uniform on at least thirty-nine separate occasions since the original uniform in 1775.  I can only imagine how much worse it'd be if we'd had the ability to run off new uniforms in a matter of seconds using a replicator.

Which, actually, makes it all the weirder that Discovery never updated its uniforms.  Pike's variant of the TOS uniform was already entering service at the end of the Klingon war and Discovery never rolled it out even though it looked way better than the blue Jonestown tracksuits they're wearing now, and after moving to the future and trading their matter synthesizers in for 32nd century replicators it's even weirder that they haven't updated.

(Here's a thought... since programmable matter is widely used, why not make uniforms out of the stuff and update the design with the push of a button?)

Posted

I was working on my summaries of the last few Star Trek: Discovery season three episodes and @BlackRose's summary of the season's penultimate episode tops anything I could ever or will ever write about it.

She summed up "There is a tide..." in eight words:

Space Karen demands to speak to Starfleet's manager.

I lost it.

Posted
  On 1/3/2021 at 1:05 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

It's quite bizarre how they can do their research incredibly well in a few isolated places and do an absolutely terrible job of it everywhere else.

Every now and then they'll reference obscure points of Star Trek lore and follow it up with middle school-level failures of basic science.

Which isn't to say that previous Star Trek titles didn't also occasionally exhibit massive research failures.  One of the most common recurring ones is medical officers pushing the enormously unscientific concepts of goal-oriented evolution and evolutionary levels: evolution following a set series of steps and that lifeforms evolving towards having a specific form or ability.  This is the crux of at least seven entire pre-Abrams episodes including "The Omega Glory" (TOS), "Genesis" (TNG), "Transfigurations" (TNG), "Pen Pals" (TNG), "The Chase" (TNG), "Threshold" (VOY), and "Dear Doctor" (ENT).  There are also a number of rather egregious recurring ones involving distance in TOS and the TOS movies WRT the distance from Earth to the edge/center of the galaxy (in "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and Star Trek V), and a lot of really bizarre moments where the writers forgot about conservation of matter or energy.

It's just Discovery has a far greater density of this kind of blatant cockup than any previous title.

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Yeah, there is that; it seems like they only research the stuff that interests them insofar as trying to make the story work.  On that note: I wonder if all of this is actually the fevered delusions of Michael Burnham lying in a Federation hospital on Earth after suffering a Traumatic Brain Injury back in the 23rd century?

(it would certainly make a lot of sense...maybe Picard actually suffered a stroke after the synths torched Mars, and all of Picard is pretty much the same thing?)

 

  On 1/3/2021 at 1:05 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

... you a +1 from me for that, btw.

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:) Thank you kind sir; I'll have it bronzed and put it on my mantle. :D

  On 1/3/2021 at 3:31 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I was working on my summaries of the last few Star Trek: Discovery season three episodes and @BlackRose's summary of the season's penultimate episode tops anything I could ever or will ever write about it.

She summed up "There is a tide..." in eight words:

Space Karen demands to speak to Starfleet's manager.

I lost it.

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That reminds me of the last time I visited Failblog...maybe Star Trek needs its' own version?

Posted

Is this dumpster fire still going?  Lol,  its almost as bad as that lame Robotech Remix thread, hahaha ha!

Posted
  On 1/3/2021 at 8:49 PM, pengbuzz said:

Yeah, there is that; it seems like they only research the stuff that interests them insofar as trying to make the story work.  On that note: I wonder if all of this is actually the fevered delusions of Michael Burnham lying in a Federation hospital on Earth after suffering a Traumatic Brain Injury back in the 23rd century?

(it would certainly make a lot of sense...maybe Picard actually suffered a stroke after the synths torched Mars, and all of Picard is pretty much the same thing?)

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It'd be real convenient if it were just a fever dream by an incredibly self-centered person.

It's one thing for, say, Q to choose Starfleet's finest captain as a representative sample of humanity to put on trial.  It's quite another for a character whose only noteworthy trait is her entirely accidental relation-by-foster to two famous Vulcan ambassadors to keep being given such massive leeway despite constant insubordination that puts her life and the lives of her crewmates at risk.  It's like Starfleet's been taking administrative pointers from Professor Dumbledore.

 

  5 hours ago, pengbuzz said:

That reminds me of the last time I visited Failblog...maybe Star Trek needs its' own version?

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It probably already has one, we just haven't found it.

 

  On 1/4/2021 at 1:49 AM, peter said:

Is this dumpster fire still going?  Lol,  its almost as bad as that lame Robotech Remix thread, hahaha ha!

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Yes, to our amazement this dumpster fire continues to burn fat stacks of cash to no useful end.

At least Titan Comics apparently knew when to pack it in.  Reports from entertainment news outlets talking to ViacomCBS, Netflix, and Amazon suggest the main thing keeping Kurtzman's odious take on Star Trek going is the sunk cost fallacy.  ViacomCBS is so deep in the red after investing something to the tune of a quarter of a billion dollars developing Star Trek: Discovery in expectation of a highly merchandised seven season run similar to previous Star Trek shows that they continue to spend lavishly on the series in the hopes that it will finally take off, attract merchandising, and start paying down the gargantuan debt incurred by its development.  There were reports from some news outlets that Netflix's ongoing involvement for season three (and beyond?) as the show's principal source of production funding was secured by CBS threatening to sue Netflix for breach of contract if they withdrew from the project.  So Netflix just slashes the budget based on the show's ever-diminishing returns and each new season ends up being shorter than the last as a result.

The merchandise situation's almost as sad as Robotech's... being mainly CafePress-style t-shirts, mugs, etc. with some other odds and ends like replica Starfleet badges and cheap wine.

Posted (edited)
  On 1/4/2021 at 2:32 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

It'd be real convenient if it were just a fever dream by an incredibly self-centered person.

It's one thing for, say, Q to choose Starfleet's finest captain as a representative sample of humanity to put on trial.  It's quite another for a character whose only noteworthy trait is her entirely accidental relation-by-foster to two famous Vulcan ambassadors to keep being given such massive leeway despite constant insubordination that puts her life and the lives of her crewmates at risk.  It's like Starfleet's been taking administrative pointers from Professor Dumbledore.

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I was thinking more for the sake of the Star Trek universe, so that it and Picard could just be relegated to the trash heap without much effect on continuity.

 

  On 1/4/2021 at 1:49 AM, peter said:

Is this dumpster fire still going?  Lol,  its almost as bad as that lame Robotech Remix thread, hahaha ha!

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This dumpster fire is fueled by Kurtzman's refusal to take a hint and admit his non-version of Trek just plain sucks.

Without going back over all the ground that's already been covered, he's trying to continue what JJ Abomination started: turn Star Trek into Star Wars. And the production team he has going on this has done everything imaginable to try to slap a "Trek" veneer onto this monstrosity. It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a star-shaped hole: all you're gonna do is break the peg, the board the hole is in, and the hammer to boot. At the rate they're going, CBS/Viacom is going to become known as the Harmony Gold of Star Trek, with Kurtzman as it's Frank Agrama.

(my keyboard is crying because I made it type that out.)

Edited by pengbuzz
Posted
  On 1/4/2021 at 4:36 AM, pengbuzz said:

I was thinking more for the sake of the Star Trek universe, so that it and Picard could just be relegated to the trash heap without much effect on continuity.

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My headcanon is still that, since Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard take stylistic and narrative pointers from the unproduced Star Trek: Final Frontier series pitch and J.J. Abrams Star Trek movies, those shows are in a "bad future" timeline created by the actions of one or more hostile powers during the Temporal Cold War.

The Star Trek relaunch novel 'verse Department of Temporal Investigations miniseries used that exact explanation to dismiss and indirectly poke fun at Final Frontier and a number of other needlessly grimdark rejected Star Trek series pitches.  All of them got dismissed as "bad future" alternate realities created by Future Guy's tampering with history and then retroactively prevented from ever existing by corrective actions taken by the 29th century's Starfleet's Temporal Integrity Commission and the 31st century's civilian Federation Temporal Agency. 

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  40 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

This dumpster fire is fueled by Kurtzman's refusal to take a hint and admit his non-version of Trek just plain sucks.

Without going back over all the ground that's already been covered, he's trying to continue what JJ Abomination started: turn Star Trek into Star Wars. And the production team he has going on this has done everything imaginable to try to slap a "Trek" veneer onto this monstrosity. It's like trying to hammer a square peg into a star-shaped hole: all you're gonna do is break the peg, the board the hole is in, and the hammer to boot. At the rate they're going, CBS/Viacom is going to become known as the Harmony Gold of Star Trek, with Kurtzman as it's Frank Agrama.

(my keyboard is crying because I made it type that out.)

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Well, it is kind of a career-ending admission to make... copping to having effectively dismantled and destroyed one of the most beloved sci-fi properties of all time.  I think he's hoping he can fake it 'til he makes it or hits retirement age.  

Posted

Hats off to all of you who have gone through the trouble to endure this series.

It has stunning visuals, I will admit, but after reading some of the plots and premise, the Kingons (WTF) I couldn't be bothered.

I know there is some enthusiasm for the Discoprise in the Star Trek modelling groups, but that is about the only ship from the entire series that is basically ok, the rest don't get much mention, unless it's to make fun of how stupid the new BOP looks.

Just pop in here once in a while to see if anyone's put the fire out, hahahaha!

 

Posted
  On 1/4/2021 at 11:44 AM, peter said:

Hats off to all of you who have gone through the trouble to endure this series.

It has stunning visuals, I will admit, but after reading some of the plots and premise, the Kingons (WTF) I couldn't be bothered.

I know there is some enthusiasm for the Discoprise in the Star Trek modelling groups, but that is about the only ship from the entire series that is basically ok, the rest don't get much mention, unless it's to make fun of how stupid the new BOP looks.

Just pop in here once in a while to see if anyone's put the fire out, hahahaha!

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I wouldn't even say it's visually stunning, TBH.  There is some impressive CG occasionally, but the obsession with using high-end digital VFX at every opportunity is increasingly turning the series into accidental greenscreen comedy when the poor CG design choices aren't just repulsive like the riced-out Discovery, Osyrra's Great Value Star Destroyer, or Booker's I Can't Believe It's Not the Millennium Falcon.  

The one decent bit of design work done for the show was the TOS-inspired uniforms and Discovery version of the classic Enterprise... which is probably why they're keen to reuse those for Strange New Worlds now that Discovery has moved out of the 23rd century to avoid the near-constant criticism for f*cking it up.

(Personally, I will never get past the phrase "Klingon cleave ship".  My hands feel dirty just from typing it.)

Posted
  On 1/4/2021 at 4:53 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

I wouldn't even say it's visually stunning, TBH.  There is some impressive CG occasionally, but the obsession with using high-end digital VFX at every opportunity is increasingly turning the series into accidental greenscreen comedy when the poor CG design choices aren't just repulsive like the riced-out Discovery, Osyrra's Great Value Star Destroyer, or Booker's I Can't Believe It's Not the Millennium Falcon.  

The one decent bit of design work done for the show was the TOS-inspired uniforms and Discovery version of the classic Enterprise... which is probably why they're keen to reuse those for Strange New Worlds now that Discovery has moved out of the 23rd century to avoid the near-constant criticism for f*cking it up.

(Personally, I will never get past the phrase "Klingon cleave ship".  My hands feel dirty just from typing it.)

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BTW, I have an idea to save Star Trek...

We combine Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard into one series.

 

Ready for the name?

Star Trek: DISCARD. :D

Posted
  On 1/4/2021 at 4:53 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

(Personally, I will never get past the phrase "Klingon cleave ship".  My hands feel dirty just from typing it.)

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I had to look that up.....I should have filmed my reaction and uploaded it to youtube.

 

Posted

Ugh! It could have been a good episode...
 

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Posted
  On 1/4/2021 at 4:53 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

The one decent bit of design work done for the show was the TOS-inspired uniforms and Discovery version of the classic Enterprise... which is probably why they're keen to reuse those for Strange New Worlds now that Discovery has moved out of the 23rd century to avoid the near-constant criticism for f*cking it up.

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I haven't watched any of it, but I'm actually starting to plan out a fun way to mod the Disco-prise into a sort of "pre-fit" design, going directly between the TOS and TMP versions.  Ditch the weird transparent bridge and put something more like the TOS design, fill in the nacelle pylons, and give it TMP-style decals and aztec markings.

Posted
  On 1/5/2021 at 8:15 AM, Chronocidal said:

I haven't watched any of it, but I'm actually starting to plan out a fun way to mod the Disco-prise into a sort of "pre-fit" design, going directly between the TOS and TMP versions.  Ditch the weird transparent bridge and put something more like the TOS design, fill in the nacelle pylons, and give it TMP-style decals and aztec markings.

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Nah, keep the transparent bridge, just make sure you add this sun shade:

 

Sun_Shade_I_Star_Wars_-_01_1080x.thumb.jpg.020caf3e4b70354b7944df4e2a9a986d.jpg

Posted
  On 1/4/2021 at 10:51 PM, pengbuzz said:

BTW, I have an idea to save Star Trek...

We combine Star Trek Discovery and Star Trek Picard into one series.

 

Ready for the name?

Star Trek: DISCARD. :D

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If there's anything left of the Star Trek franchise once Alex Kurtzman's contract expires for a new creative team to take over, that's definitely one possibility.

As unpopular as Star Trek: Discovery and Star Trek: Picard are - with almost no third party merchandising behind them - it'll be interesting to see what happens to Kurtzman's Trek once he's not in charge.  There are basically three options from the way that previous franchise brain farts were handled:

  • Alternate Universe
    AKA the Abrams Maneuver... for when an idea (like rebooting Star Trek) is so poorly received that the only way anyone is willing to give it the time of day is if it's officially branded as an alternate reality with no bearing on the rest of Star Trek, so that nobody has to acknowledge it in any way.
     
  • Damnatio Memoriae
    AKA the "Big-Lipped Alligator Moment"... the preferred solution for Gene Roddenberry and other showrunners to deal with stories and concepts that didn't turn out the way they'd hoped for various reasons like TAS, Star Trek V, and various old shame episodes and aborted arcs like "Code of Honor", "Move Along Home", various Kazon-centric story arcs, and anything to do with deuterium scarcity once the science advisors reminded them how common that stuff is.  "That was a thing that happened, but we will never speak of it again."
     
  • Discontinuity
    AKA the "Threshold Solution"... for those rare occasions that something turned out so poorly, or was so obviously stupid in hindsight that even the showrunners can't bear to have it in continuity.  TAS as a whole used to be on this level, but now this is occupied by just a few episodes that were such glaring messes that new material was written to establish that That Never Happened.  

 

Given how much ViacomCBS has invested in Star Trek: DiscoveryStar Trek: PicardStar Trek: Strange New Worlds, and Star Trek: Lower Decks, it's probably headed for alternate universe territory if the franchise survives just so they can try to recoup some of that money on home video/digital library sales while they pray that absence makes the heart grow fonder.

 

 

  On 1/5/2021 at 12:08 AM, peter said:

I had to look that up.....I should have filmed my reaction and uploaded it to youtube.

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The worst part is that there's an actual real world name for ships like that which, though old, is somewhat less corny: a ram or ramship.

Of course, the reason that fell out of favor in the real world is that ramming was only really an effective strategy in the pre-Common Era days of wooden rowing ships and that steam-powered ironclad naval rams were so hilariously ineffective that it became evident there was no real point in building them.  Especially once torpedoes came into service and it became obvious you could do the same job better from further away with a torpedo.

 

 

  On 1/5/2021 at 2:04 AM, Thom said:

Thanks Tilly. How's that self-destruct option coming along..? At the end of this, both Saru and Tilly should be off the ship, which would probably open the way for Michael.:shok:

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Yeah, that was just undignified.

Tilly talks sh*t to the leader of the Emerald Chain about how she'll never take the ship, and then she immediately takes the ship without firing a shot.  The whole idea making Tilly, the lowest-ranking and least-experienced member of the crew, into the ship's new executive officer was such an obviously terrible idea that it's flat amazing that anyone on the crew went with it.  The only thing I can conceive of as their reason for supporting her is that she's a bit dim and desperate for approval, and therefore would've been easy to the more experienced crew to manipulate.  She's not only not command material, she's not Starfleet material.  Even Reg Barclay had more of his sh*t together than Tilly, and he was more a pile of neuroses in the shape of a man than anything.

(I've noticed that the writers seem to really like doing this plot where they put a complete idiot in charge over dozens if not hundreds of more qualified candidates and calamity immediately ensues.  Lower Decks played it for comedy.)

It'll take some serious bullsh*t from the writers for Burnham to ever be given command.  She's already been dishonorably discharged for assaulting a superior officer and mutiny, censured several times for AWOL, and removed from her post as Discovery's executive officer over such a grievous instance of AWOL during an alert situation that she only narrowly avoided being cashiered out of the service again and the Starfleet Commander in Chief (correctly) thinks she's an irresponsible pillock.

 

 

  8 hours ago, Thom said:

Although, I think it would be great if they introduced a new captain from the 32nd. Sure, set up Michael as No1 but let's have a professional in the big chair who won't get all mealy and softy and have the need to drop some tears every fifteen minutes. Pike 2.0 if you will.

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Nah, Michael has already proved she's not command material to the point that Admiral Vance wanted to discharge her and Saru removed her from any possibility of the center seat.

They definitely need a proper, experienced captain though.  At the rate they've been shedding crew, I expect at least one or two more people to either quit or come down with permadeath at the end of the season.  Nhan has already left the crew to assist in running a Federation seed vault, and Mirror!Georgiou was sent into the past for a spinoff that's in development hell and will probably never happen.  They've also killed Ryn in the last episode.  Booker's probably save since he's Burnham's love interest, but I suspect they're either going to have Saru leave Starfleet to take care of Su'Kal full time or Tilly will be killed off trying to reclaim the ship.  My money's on the writers killing off Tilly, since her character is redundant with the introduction of Adira Tal who's also socially awkward but more competent and better-liked (esp. by Stamets). and is also Star Trek's first nonbinary recurring character.

 

  8 hours ago, Thom said:

Some things were good, like Staments needing to be forced off the ship. But the whole prison break thing was a by-the-numbers wash. And Osyrra's science guy, who is incredibly chummy with her, has never realized how much of a monster she is..? I predict that he will be instrumental in them stopping her from her plan. Any bets?

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That, my friend, is a sucker bet.

The writers telegraphed the sh*t out of that when he had that conversation with Stamets and Stamets explained what an evil person she is... leading to him refusing to leave the bridge before she executed Ryn.

 

  8 hours ago, Thom said:

Also liked the Sphere Data hiding from discovery and coming out, finally, maybe as a fully fledged character. Finally. I really wish they had concentrated on that plot line more heavily in the preceding episodes.

There were some good episodes early on, but it hasn't played out the way it should.

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Eh... I am less enthusiastic about that because that's headed into a Star Trek version of R2-D2... which is basically what those damned robots already are.

Posted

The Sanctuary (DSC 3x08)

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Posted

Terra Firma, Part 1 (DSC 3x09)

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Terra Firma, Part 2 (DSC 3x10)

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Posted

Dangit, Carl, you were supposed to get rid of EVERYONE!

 

Actually, this raises questions. If the Guardian is a moral being, is there a Mirror Guardian that is evil and wears a stone goatee?

Posted
  On 1/6/2021 at 10:51 PM, JB0 said:

Actually, this raises questions. If the Guardian is a moral being, is there a Mirror Guardian that is evil and wears a stone goatee?

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The way it's presented both here and in TAS "Yesteryear", the Guardian of Forever seems to have a singular consciousness and memory spread across all the universes where there is a Guardian of Forever.  Either that or it's a singular entity who physically exists in multiple realities at once.  Its memory is immune to changes in the timeline or the creation of alternate timelines... like when a Federation research team accidentally failed to close a stable time loop that created an alternate reality where Spock died as a child, it still have knowledge of both the alteration and of Spock's interactions with it in a different timeline.

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Su'Kal (DSC 3x11)

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There is a Tide (DSC 3x12): AKA "Space Karen demands to speak to Starfleet's Manager."

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Posted
  On 1/7/2021 at 3:28 AM, Seto Kaiba said:

There is a Tide (DSC 3x12): AKA "Space Karen demands to speak to Starfleet's Manager."

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At this point, they really need to change the theme song for STD to "Yakety Sax".

Posted

And so, Discovery comes to an end... an ending that ignores the consequences of every single action, but nonetheless wraps up all the outstanding plot threads in a definitive manner.

Let it die here.  

Posted

That Hope is You, Part 2 (DSC 3x13) OR "The Culmination of Your Poor Choices"

So, we have come to the end of this particular atrocity against the honorable name and legacy of Star Trek.

On one level, I am relieved that this mess has finally reached its screeching, juddering halt like the saucer section of the Enterprise-D crashing on Viridian III.  On others, I am depressed beyond measure that this is the standard of writing that now passes for a flagship Star Trek series and that these horrid characters are going to be held up, in their own story, as heroes of Starfleet and quite possibly the saviors of the entire United Federation of Planets.  It's one thing to be hailed as a hero of the UFP when you have saved it from an exterior threat, saved peace negotiations with a major hostile power, or defeated an existential threat to every species.  The Discovery crew are going to be hailed as heroes for cleaning up a series of problems they created through their own idiocy, shortsightedness, and unwillingness to abide by Federation law and Starfleet regulations.

It's cold comfort that Star Trek: Discovery will probably never get a movie, so this lot will be forgotten once their series ends.

 

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Curiously, the credits music they chose for this episode is the Original Series theme.  

Please CBS.  Let this turd end here.  Don't go any further.  Make it easy for whoever replaces Kurtzman and Secret Hideout to strike this dumpster fire from the record so we can have real Star Trek again some day.

Posted
  On 1/7/2021 at 4:56 PM, Seto Kaiba said:

That Hope is You, Part 2 (DSC 3x13) OR "The Culmination of Your Poor Choices"

So, we have come to the end of this particular atrocity against the honorable name and legacy of Star Trek.

On one level, I am relieved that this mess has finally reached its screeching, juddering halt like the saucer section of the Enterprise-D crashing on Viridian III.  On others, I am depressed beyond measure that this is the standard of writing that now passes for a flagship Star Trek series and that these horrid characters are going to be held up, in their own story, as heroes of Starfleet and quite possibly the saviors of the entire United Federation of Planets.  It's one thing to be hailed as a hero of the UFP when you have saved it from an exterior threat, saved peace negotiations with a major hostile power, or defeated an existential threat to every species.  The Discovery crew are going to be hailed as heroes for cleaning up a series of problems they created through their own idiocy, shortsightedness, and unwillingness to abide by Federation law and Starfleet regulations.

It's cold comfort that Star Trek: Discovery will probably never get a movie, so this lot will be forgotten once their series ends.

 

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Curiously, the credits music they chose for this episode is the Original Series theme.  

Please CBS.  Let this turd end here.  Don't go any further.  Make it easy for whoever replaces Kurtzman and Secret Hideout to strike this dumpster fire from the record so we can have real Star Trek again some day.

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Nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. In fact, nuke it repeatedly (100-200 times should be good). Then burn the ashes with fire. LOTS of fire. Drench the ashes in napalm and then do a re-enactment of the Torching of Mars. When that is finished, nuke the mess again, then fire about 5,000 Quantum Torpedoes at the site of the ashes. Take those ashes, mix with concrete mix and water, let set into a brick, fire in an over for 3 weeks, then drop that brick into a black hole, then drop red matter into the black hole. Using a tractor beam, drag the remains outside the galaxy (past the galactic barrier), attach warp engines to it as well as every bit of antimatter they can scrounge up, and let the warp drive take it out past any civilized areas (other galaxies) and then detonate the mess.

Then nuke it one more time. And pray that just might be enough....

Posted

Now we know...

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In the end though, there were just so many bad decisions made by the writers about the characters and plot that I was just meh about everything. My give a damn has long since been busted...

Tell me when Strange New Worlds is airing.

 

Posted
  On 1/7/2021 at 10:35 PM, pengbuzz said:

Nuke it from orbit; it's the only way to be sure. In fact, nuke it repeatedly (100-200 times should be good). Then burn the ashes with fire. LOTS of fire. Drench the ashes in napalm and then do a re-enactment of the Torching of Mars. When that is finished, nuke the mess again, then fire about 5,000 Quantum Torpedoes at the site of the ashes. Take those ashes, mix with concrete mix and water, let set into a brick, fire in an over for 3 weeks, then drop that brick into a black hole, then drop red matter into the black hole. Using a tractor beam, drag the remains outside the galaxy (past the galactic barrier), attach warp engines to it as well as every bit of antimatter they can scrounge up, and let the warp drive take it out past any civilized areas (other galaxies) and then detonate the mess.

Then nuke it one more time. And pray that just might be enough....

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That seems to be the general consensus of the season finale on the Star Trek Facebook groups and subreddits I've been on.

There are a few folks gamely attempting to defend it, but most fans seem to be either disappointed, upset, or downright disgusted with Star Trek: Discovery now.  Even the official Star Trek subreddit has abandoned its usual role as an echo chamber for pro-Discovery fans and started taking shots across the franchise's bow.  The main bones of contention seem to be, in descending order of vitriolitic-ness:

  • Interior shots of Discovery during the turbolift fight sequence.
    In previous Star Trek works, turbolifts traveled in narrow elevator shaft-like spaces that ran both vertically and horizontally through the ship's tightly packed interior.  Discovery's season finale features a bizarre, and shockingly long, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator-esque sequence where Burnham and Booker are fighting on turbolift cars which zoom hither and yon through a MASSIVE empty interior space far larger than anything that could be contained within the Discovery's internal spaces with the turbolift shaft being just airborne rectangular frames springing into existence as the car travels and disappearing once it's past.  Normally turbolifts can travel anywhere in a ship in a matter of seconds, but this is a fifteen minute long elevator ride to nowhere through the unspecified bowels of the ship that now seems to be slightly smaller than V'Ger.
     
  • The warp core ejection.
    Normally, a ship's warp core is depicted as being a substantially large device - normally a good half dozen or more decks high - and in or directly adjoining main engineering and connected to various plasma conduits which carry the reaction plasma off to the EPS grid that powers the ship and to the warp nacelles to charge the warp coils.  On the USS Discovery, the warp core is seemingly located in the middle of nowhere, isn't connected to anything, looks like an oil drum with blue LEDs, and when ejected spends a not-inconsiderable amount of time sliding down a shaft (seemingly under gravity) and bouncing off the sides of said shaft on the way out.  Designing a warp core that can't even be ejected cleanly when it's full of highly volatile antimatter seems like a REALLY bad idea.
     
  • Osyraa's death being a non-event.
    Despite being the main antagonist for this entire series of Discovery either directly or by proxy via her organization the Emerald Chain, Osyraa's death is treated almost as an afterthought.  Her fight with Burnham in Discovery's computer core ends with her walking away assuming Burnham is now suffocating to death inside a column made up of programmable matter and Burnham shoots her dead seemingly by accident.  She just gets hit once and goes down like a sack of potatoes.  Burnham doesn't even check to see if she's actually dead or not.  Granted, the lack of drama is certainly realistic... but it lacks closure when the villain gets hit seemingly entirely by dumb luck and dies with the protagonist not even bothering to check the body.  We only find out she's dead and not just stunned or wounded in the closing narration!
     
  • Burnham's Designated Hero status allowing her to pull yet another Karma Houdini and become Captain.
    Since this particular problem only crops up at the very end, it's kind of overshadowed by the writing problems elsewhere.  Burnham, who had mere days earlier in-series been the recipient of a demotion and a severe dressing-down from the Starfleet commander in chief and her captain with the explicit indication that the only reason she wasn't up for her second dishonorable discharge from Starfleet was because she'd saved lives with her stunt on Hunhau, is promoted to Captain and given command of USS Discovery once Saru decides to take a leave of absence to help Su'Kal adjust to life on 32nd century Kaminar.
     
  • Burnham crying all the damn time.
    It's been made fun of a lot.  Burnham cries at least one in like eight out of thirteen episodes this season and as often as three times per episode in some cases.  It's somewhat exacerbated by Sonequa Martin-Green's unconvincing acting, but it compares unfavorably to Kathryn Janeway's ability to handle even greater stresses with a calm, collected demeanor and considerable grace.  The way it was handled felt more like an attempt to telegraph to the audience that the scene was supposed to be dramatic, which lacking direction and acting tended to render comical or dull.

In the wake of the Discovery being disabled by detaching its warp nacelle at warp, I've noticed a lot more people taking shots at the ugly Starfleet ship designs that hang around in Starfleet Headquarters as well.  Especially comparing a lot of them to ships from Stargate SG-1.  

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