Bandai DX VF-31

[Lolicon]

Bandai is busy palette swapping another Metal Build Gundam to "reissue."

[Sandman]

21 hours ago, Rogueload said:

I’m thinking Bandai is done with the VF-31. Maybe supers for the E and S but it could be a while for another valk. 

I think we've passed the point where we can expect the supers for the s and e or even armour for the e.

[jenius]

24 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I think we've passed the point where we can expect the supers for the s and e or even armour for the e.

It feels that way... but aren't we still expecting a Macross Delta Movie Part 2 or something?

[Bolt]

Lol

[Sandman]

I'm disappointed how unrealized the Delta line is compared to Frontiers. Frontier released almost everything. Delta has made some weird decisions: Making the CF an exclusive and not making enough. No tan 171. Super parts without the sound boosters. No supers for 2 of the 5 delta squad valks so no displays with all valks wearing supers. Etc. 

[crackpot]

2 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I'm disappointed how unrealized the Delta line is compared to Frontiers. Frontier released almost everything. Delta has made some weird decisions: Making the CF an exclusive and not making enough. No tan 171. Super parts without the sound boosters. No supers for 2 of the 5 delta squad valks so no displays with all valks wearing supers. Etc. 

Because Delta sucks. Lol! As much as the valks in the series are nice, the focus has been selling their J-pop merchandise. I bet the 2nd movie will be 60% Walkure, 39% valks, 1% plot.

[sqidd]

4 minutes ago, Sandman said:

I'm disappointed how unrealized the Delta line is compared to Frontiers. Frontier released almost everything. Delta has made some weird decisions: Making the CF an exclusive and not making enough. No tan 171. Super parts without the sound boosters. No supers for 2 of the 5 delta squad valks so no displays with all valks wearing supers. Etc. 

I would love to know the parts that make up these decisions. Is it demand (or lack of)? Is that demand judgement accurate? Is it that they have "X" amount of production capacity and only put it toward higher margin units? Is it something political in the company? All of the above?

My company produces niche product that for the most part is high end. The perceptions of the customer base rarely line up with the realities of what is profitable to produce. I get lots of requests for things I could design and put in production easily. But when it's time to put their chips down the customer base rarely comes up with enough of them. I'm currently getting "pounded" loudly by a small group of about 30 people who want me to produce something. The problem is for me to set aside other more profitable projects to produce that thing I need about 65-70 buyers. It's not like I don't want to make the thing, I do. But I won't stay in business long producing things that don't cover their own cost of development and pay for my time.

For my really low volume niche niche stuff I go about it a little differently than Bandai does though. And I think it's too bad that Bandai doesn't do more niche things based on the model I use. I produce an idea or prototype and present it to the customer base. I then take deposits from people who want them. If a certain threshold is met, I produce it. Maybe only that once. A few things have caught on and been repeated though.

I wonder how many unit sales Bandai could pre-secure for the rest of the 31 line? How about more HMR Destroids?. How about a re-release of a few things? It would be interesting to see what would happen if they were presented with let's say 2500 pre confirmed orders before they even had to fire up a CAD program. Would they be more likely to produce it?

[Sanity is Optional]

My personal suspicion is that Bandai cares more than anything else about making sure things don't sit on shelves.

The lower their shelfwarmer numbers, the better their bargaining position with retailers. From what I understand Bandai doesn't let retailers decide what items to carry as much as what lines. Because Bandai itself is good at producing things that don't sit on shelves, they can get away with this sort of distribution. Not to mention they can probably push lower seller margins as their product isn't sitting around.

[sqidd]

16 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

My personal suspicion is that Bandai cares more than anything else about making sure things don't sit on shelves.

The lower their shelfwarmer numbers, the better their bargaining position with retailers. From what I understand Bandai doesn't let retailers decide what items to carry as much as what lines. Because Bandai itself is good at producing things that don't sit on shelves, they can get away with this sort of distribution. Not to mention they can probably push lower seller margins as their product isn't sitting around.

I agree with all of that. It's actually right out of the Honda Powersports dealer relations model. It's actually a good model.

It would be interesting to see them do a test case for something very niche (Destroids for example) and take deposits on the run. If a certain threshold isn't met, they don't do the run. They get to guarantee that they don't have shelf warmers. They get to fill niche markets. And if the threshold isn't met they can put the onus back on the customer base for not stepping up. Which may in turn spur the customer base to take that sort of thing more seriously. Of course nothing is that simple. There are probably a hundred second order problems that would arise and need to be solved. A fun thought experiment though. Work great for me. Admittedly that's apples and oranges though.

Just thought of this while typing. How about a Bandai puts a "Skunk Works" department together that operates just like above. You guys want 1/30 scale VF-1S's? Well, let's see how many people will commit to the $1000 price tag for example? You guys want Tomohawk HMR's? Well, if we get 10,000 deposits (made up number), we'll make them.

[crackpot]

5 minutes ago, sqidd said:

I agree with all of that. It's actually right out of the Honda Powersports dealer relations model. It's actually a good model.

It would be interesting to see them do a test case for something very niche (Destroids for example) and take deposits on the run. If a certain threshold isn't met, they don't do the run. They get to guarantee that they don't have shelf warmers. They get to fill niche markets. And if the threshold isn't met they can put the onus back on the customer base for not stepping up. Which may in turn spur the customer base to take that sort of thing more seriously. Of course nothing is that simple. There are probably a hundred second order problems that would arise and need to be solved. A fun thought experiment though. Work great for me. Admittedly that's apples and oranges though.

Just thought of this while typing. How about a Bandai puts a "Skunk Works" department together that operates just like above. You guys want 1/30 scale VF-1S's? Well, let's see how many people will commit to the $1000 price tag for example? You guys want Tomohawk HMR's? Well, if we get 10,000 deposits (made up number), we'll make them.

I think it's just a hassle to refund numerous payments when the goal isn't met. You still end up paying for the cost of operation or setting up the campaign.

[sqidd]

7 minutes ago, crackpot said:

I think it's just a hassle to refund numerous payments when the goal isn't met. You still end up paying for the cost of operation or setting up the campaign.

There would absolutely be some risk of time and resources. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that.

[Mommar]

The thing is, outside of the additional 262 variants and the Arad version of the 31A, everything everybody is asking about is pretty much already Bandai's own niche market.  Add on super and armor parts are already specialty items.  On top of that the molds all exist.  It's just production and repaint.  I know that costs money but that's the easiest thing for Bandai to be able to produce and limit the number.  Three Super parts for the A/S/E and Armor for the A/E are all they need to put out.  Delta is not receiving the same sort of care Frontier got, that's for sure.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Mommar

[crackpot]

11 minutes ago, sqidd said:

There would absolutely be some risk of time and resources. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that.

Yeah but Bandai has a lot of other products that are selling really well. Why even bother especially with Macross which has a smaller audience, as others have mentioned? Besides, they already have the TWE which function the same in a way. They do an initial run, if it sells really well (sold out within minutes), they immediately schedule another run for a different release date. If the 2nd run does really well again, a 3rd run is done. It has happened before. 

[Sanity is Optional]

24 minutes ago, Mommar said:

The thing is, outside of the additional 262 variants and the Arad version of the 31A, everything everybody is asking about is pretty much already Bandai's own niche market.  Add on super and armor parts are already specialty items.  On top of that the molds all exist.  It's just production and repaint.  I know that costs money but that's the easiest thing for Bandai to be able to produce and limit the number.  Three Super parts for the A/S/E and Armor for the A/E are all they need to put out.  Delta is not receiving the same sort of care Frontier got, that's for sure.

It's not the cost of production, t's the opportunity cost. Bandai has their own factory, it's a question of if it's worth slotting this stuff for production over something else.

I heavily suspect that with as popular as the 1/48 VF-1 was, some production slots got shifted to it from Macross Delta.

[Mommar]

16 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

It's not the cost of production, t's the opportunity cost. Bandai has their own factory, it's a question of if it's worth slotting this stuff for production over something else.

I heavily suspect that with as popular as the 1/48 VF-1 was, some production slots got shifted to it from Macross Delta.

I could buy that.

[Slave IV]

Yep, opportunity costs. Bandai makes tons of stuff that is more profitable than Macross for them. Probably almost everything else they make is more profitable than Macross, lol. 

[sqidd]

7 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

It's not the cost of production, t's the opportunity cost. Bandai has their own factory, it's a question of if it's worth slotting this stuff for production over something else.

I heavily suspect that with as popular as the 1/48 VF-1 was, some production slots got shifted to it from Macross Delta.

 

6 hours ago, Slave IV said:

Yep, opportunity costs. Bandai makes tons of stuff that is more profitable than Macross for them. Probably almost everything else they make is more profitable than Macross, lol. 

If they did a Skunkworks thing they could increase their margin while still not having to worry about shelf warmers. Th Skunkworks thing could eliminate scalping almost 100%. If they eliminate scalping they can raise the MSRP and we would all still buy them. Most of us would end up paying less in the long run.

Not trying to argue. I like thought experiments like this.

Edited December 18, 2019 by sqidd

[sqidd]

7 minutes ago, sqidd said:

 

If they did a Skunkworks thing they could increase their margin while still not having to worry about shelf warmers. Th Skunkworks thing could eliminate scalping almost 100%. If they eliminate scalping they can raise the MSRP and we would all still buy them. Most of us would end up paying less in the long run.

Not trying to argue. I like thought experiments like this.

Excellent, thank you. I wasn't able to find that.

[Darth Mingus]

59 minutes ago, sqidd said:

If they did a Skunkworks thing they could increase their margin while still not having to worry about shelf warmers. Th Skunkworks thing could eliminate scalping almost 100%. If they eliminate scalping they can raise the MSRP and we would all still buy them. Most of us would end up paying less in the long run.

Not quite, Bandai either wouldn't or couldn't open this up to most of us due to a party that won't be named.  The skunkworks product would still take up factory time and they could probably do a worldwide offering with something else in their catalog, like Dragonball, that would absolutely pay itself off.

8 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

It's not the cost of production, t's the opportunity cost. Bandai has their own factory, it's a question of if it's worth slotting this stuff for production over something else.

Bandai outsources production of the Tamashii Nations stuff to China.  They partner, but they do not own the factories.  They own the factories that make Gunpla and they do that in Japan.  I think that is why they decided to retool and release the 1/60 RX-93 as a "Metal Structure".  They probably did the design (they have been talking about it for years), didi the analysis and realized that they would probably need diecast (the old 1/100 had diecast hips and legs) and over 2000 parts so it would not have been economically feasible to do the work themselves in their own factories, because of the opportunity costs and all the other Gunpla lines they would have to put on hold to output this thing.

[sqidd]

26 minutes ago, Darth Mingus said:

Not quite, Bandai either wouldn't or couldn't open this up to most of us due to a party that won't be named. 

It would be no different than it is now. Bandai doesn't have to go direct. They can still go through retailers or proxies. 

 

Quote

The skunkworks product would still take up factory time and they could probably do a worldwide offering with something else in their catalog, like Dragonball, that would absolutely pay itself off.

 

The solution to this is in your post below.

Quote

Bandai outsources production of the Tamashii Nations stuff to China.  They partner, but they do not own the factories.  They own the factories that make Gunpla and they do that in Japan.  I think that is why they decided to retool and release the 1/60 RX-93 as a "Metal Structure".  They probably did the design (they have been talking about it for years), didi the analysis and realized that they would probably need diecast (the old 1/100 had diecast hips and legs) and over 2000 parts so it would not have been economically feasible to do the work themselves in their own factories, because of the opportunity costs and all the other Gunpla lines they would have to put on hold to output this thing.

 

[Sildani]

With Frontier, I think Bandai issued Alto’s YF-29 three times, Ozma’s VF-25S three times, and his Durandal twice. They made three versions of the Nightmare Plus. I think it’s clear where the merchandising emphasis was placed on Frontier, and where it’s placed in Delta. 
 

And let’a not forget the fact the Renewals were a thing. 

[no3Ljm]

For those still looking or want extra Arad's Armored Parts, Mandarake has 3 listings ranging from Y18000-20000.

https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/detailPage/item?itemCode=1125421790

 

[Bolt]

Thanks Noel!

[beatsing]

On 12/17/2019 at 6:54 PM, sqidd said:

I would love to know the parts that make up these decisions. Is it demand (or lack of)? Is that demand judgement accurate? Is it that they have "X" amount of production capacity and only put it toward higher margin units? Is it something political in the company? All of the above?

My company produces niche product that for the most part is high end. The perceptions of the customer base rarely line up with the realities of what is profitable to produce. I get lots of requests for things I could design and put in production easily. But when it's time to put their chips down the customer base rarely comes up with enough of them. I'm currently getting "pounded" loudly by a small group of about 30 people who want me to produce something. The problem is for me to set aside other more profitable projects to produce that thing I need about 65-70 buyers. It's not like I don't want to make the thing, I do. But I won't stay in business long producing things that don't cover their own cost of development and pay for my time.

For my really low volume niche niche stuff I go about it a little differently than Bandai does though. And I think it's too bad that Bandai doesn't do more niche things based on the model I use. I produce an idea or prototype and present it to the customer base. I then take deposits from people who want them. If a certain threshold is met, I produce it. Maybe only that once. A few things have caught on and been repeated though.

I wonder how many unit sales Bandai could pre-secure for the rest of the 31 line? How about more HMR Destroids?. How about a re-release of a few things? It would be interesting to see what would happen if they were presented with let's say 2500 pre confirmed orders before they even had to fire up a CAD program. Would they be more likely to produce it?

This.  I've posted about other companies that do this.  They leave the preorder open for many months, and produce whenever set thresholds are met, so they stagger their production.  No overproduction.  No shelf warmers.  For high end stuff.  No preorder madness nor scalping with direct orders.    

[Mommar]

3 minutes ago, beatsing said:

This.  I've posted about other companies that do this.  They leave the preorder open for many months, and produce whenever set thresholds are met, so they stagger their production.  No overproduction.  No shelf warmers.  For high end stuff.  No preorder madness nor scalping with direct orders.    

Have I missed this previous explanation?  Which companies do this?

[crackpot]

11 minutes ago, Mommar said:

Have I missed this previous explanation?  Which companies do this?

Hot Toys. I do think they do produce slightly more than the order received but it's more of a buffer to compensate for any returns due to defects.

[beatsing]

11 hours ago, Mommar said:

Have I missed this previous explanation?  Which companies do this?

As @crackpot mentioned, Hot Toys.  Also, Volks does kits >$300 USD on this type of threshold schedule.  Some custom Gundam companies also do runs like this.  These companies were doing this a decade before fund me.

[sqidd]

13 hours ago, Mommar said:

Have I missed this previous explanation?  Which companies do this?

My company does this. Not toys though.

[anime52k8]

On 12/18/2019 at 4:40 AM, Darth Mingus said:

I think that is why they decided to retool and release the 1/60 RX-93 as a "Metal Structure".  They probably did the design (they have been talking about it for years), didi the analysis and realized that they would probably need diecast (the old 1/100 had diecast hips and legs) and over 2000 parts so it would not have been economically feasible to do the work themselves in their own factories, because of the opportunity costs and all the other Gunpla lines they would have to put on hold to output this thing.

The metal structure Nu is a tamashii nation's project and wouldn't have any effect on or involvement from bandai hobby. The two divisions don't share any design or production staff.

[F360]

i'm pretty sure Bandai is just waiting for the 2nd Delta Movie before continuing and/or doing any more delta toys.

 

[seti88]

Thats going to be another headache to scheduling, as kawamori's new valk will also be out. And there will be mold milking.

So any 31 valks or related merch will need to fit in there. somewhere. in between everything else too lol.

 

Edited December 22, 2019 by seti88

[Slave IV]

Here I am pretty happy with 7 variation of VF-31s with Super Parts and Armor galore with no need for anything else. I’m sure more will come especially after the next movie. 

[seti88]

I am ok to get the 31A arad and maaaybe a 02 31A as I didn’t get most of the other 31 variants 

I have messer, arad for the emblems on their backs and a 31A as a non FSW variant. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by seti88

[jeniusornome]

Wouldn’t mind a VF-31D to go with the movie whenever it happens. 

[Sanity is Optional]

I'm more interested in the new design. The 31 is a marvel of engineering, and a great figure, but I didn't really like the design much compared to the 19 or the 25, or even the 262.