Finally able to put Macross '83 TV and DYRL Zentradi into perspect

[Gubaba]

But the story of the Interstellar Republic, the Zentradi, the Supervision Army, and the end of the Protoculture HAS been told. Most recently in Macross Chronicle.

There's no need to connect dots that have already been connected.

(And yes, I guess Save is right.)

Edited September 18, 2015 by Gubaba

[Mr March]

I've been asked to post under the assumption this isn't a troll. So I'll give it a one-time attempt, but I'm out it becomes an argument.

Paladinrja, I think the problem is that you've put together a theory of the Zentradi and Meltrandi without access to - or knowledge of - the same official Macross trivia used by everyone else. Since you're unaware of that trivia, it feels like a debate about "factoids", but what you are being told is not frivolous nor irrelevant. This literally IS the official trivia for Macross, as told in both the animated productions and published works. Some of your theory will be invalid because we already have an official answer for what you've speculated about.

Also, your topic wasn't presented as "fan speculation" but as a cogent theory. So naturally, the knowledgable folks were put off.

Perhaps take this opportunity to learn more of Macross rather than dismissing what's being posted because this thread has become an "internet argument".

[Seto Kaiba]

Some of us are trying to make our RPG sites as correct as possible :cry:

And you're doin' a damn fine job of it.

Yes, because an RPG site is not at all about strict adherence to factoids.

You'd probably be surprised at the amount of seething discontent over there because Palladium DIDN'T strictly adhere to various "factoids"... they're actually raking Irving Jackson over the coals because of it in one book...

It doesn't need to be a discussion that goes so far afield from the source material and everyone ends up in strange territory. It could also be representative, assembling those facts and connecting the canon thus revelationary in undiscovered country. Where, as new information becomes available, it could be culminated. There is no conclusive synopses of the Zentradi that exists past mere tidbits of information. There is a story there and that story hasn't been told either. That story isn't over yet.

THAT'S where we're running into trouble... you're assuming that this aspect of Macross history is some vast, blank canvas. It isn't filled in in as great a level of detail as the periods where the shows or other official stories take place, but we know a fair bit about what caused the fall of the Protoculture, the circumstances behind the emegence of the Protodeviln and Supervision Army, and a lot about the circumstances, organization, and "culture" of the Zentradi's purely military society.

Macross 7 and Macross Zero both offer a fair amount of insight into the ancient Protoculture, but the print sources go much deeper. Especially the Macross official chronology materials, which spell out a frank timeline of the Protoculture's internal conflicts and their accidental self-destruction at the hands of their own creations.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Seto Kaiba

[Zinjo]

The best thing to keep in mind with the Macross productions is that Kawamori has stated that all Macross productions and media are "Dramatic Presentations" of historical events in the universe. The historical events may be accurate, but exactly how they occured have been dramatized for the screen, TV or written media. Therefore one must be careful about arguing canon based on a dramatic work.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Zinjo

[Paladinrja]

You'd probably be surprised at the amount of seething discontent over there because Palladium DIDN'T strictly adhere to various "factoids"... they're actually raking Irving Jackson over the coals because of it in one book...

Not in your wildest dreams. I was being sarcastic. I am well aware of the min/maxing requirements of RPG gamers when taking license from other established canon.

I specifically cited 'crush the head of the snake' in reply to your posturing over facts, of an episode, you cited (to support your own argument) in which Exedol eschews the Zentradi task force organization, newly micloned aboard the Macross and you still went on to refute it, the very next second. Actually you have contradicted yourself throughout the thread on many occasions even when I very clearly corroborated your points (one because they are true, two to make you feel confident that other discussions can be had in good faith). The fact is, for whatever reason you did not want this thread to gain traction and thats all there is to it.

I've been asked to post under the assumption this isn't a troll. So I'll give it a one-time attempt, but I'm out it becomes an argument.

Welcome to the club and this was a thread that I started, but now feel as you do. I am not a troll here and I will thank you not to insinuate it.

Despite your condescending tone, I am still sorry anyone thought you needed to be brought into a thread (?) you obviously have no interest in and is clearly become off topic. However, even a cursory glance over the thread, should have made you feel confident that the topic starter wasn't going to put up with where it was going for much longer (it may surprise you to learn that new people come to forums for a reason and start topics) and you honestly, needn't have bothered. Rest assured, there will be no argument, but you are a loon if you think you can type that arrogant assumption and not get a reply in kind (you don't need to answer this, just take it on board).

I decided to post an introductory to a topic, having lurked through threads to see what other people were actually talking about (surrounding Macross) and inspired by a post from another person lamenting "why Macross fans don't come to discuss Macross here". Well, with all due respect its fairly obvious why now isn't it?

Paladinrja, I think the problem is that you've put together a theory of the Zentradi and Meltrandi without access to - or knowledge of - the same official Macross trivia used by everyone else. Since you're unaware of that trivia, it feels like a debate about "factoids", but what you are being told is not frivolous nor irrelevant.

I am not unaware of the same burden of facts you or anyone else possesses and you should be mindful of this in the future where confident posters seem to swoop in with their own ideas and interpretations. This thread was not made to descend into an argument/debate about those facts, but a discussion assembling that establishment into a wider explorative topic; in a larger narrative about the Zentradi. In fact, such a discussion cannot be had without those facts, really now could it? Its really not that hard to understand.

The problem is there in clear print, the topic was never allowed to establish itself. Your friend was wrong and now in support of your friend you are wrong.

And I am out.

The best thing to keep in mind with the Macross productions is that Kawamori has stated that all Macross productions and media are "Dramatic Presentations" of historical events in the universe. The historical events may be accurate, but exactly how they occured have been dramatized for the screen, TV or written media. Therefore one must be careful about arguing canon based on a dramatic work.

Yes, I totally agree. It would have been fun to establish a topic, explore the offered premise and even possibly go onto an anthropological exploration of the Zentradi (if such momentum could be gained) as the writers have gone out of their way to provide fans with plenty of topicality without necessarily needing a dogmatic approach.

@azrael please lock the thread. Its clear no one is interested in discussing the now off-topic, topic or even interested in discerning where a person might provide insight into one; and I no longer wish to pursue it. Just lock it.

Many thanks for your contributions.