Article by Mr. K -- "Why are Arcadia products so expensive"

[Scyla]

Hot Toys QA isn't amazing. Considering it's just a doll body with clothes on it. There are always issues. Ripped seems. Cheap paint. All their R&D goes into the sculpt of the head for 70% of their toys.

Anyway - my question is why can't they use the same factories as Takara for their MP line? I don't think Arcadia's transformation are that much more complex than an MP car.

I never transformed the 19, as it seemed fairly complex but the VF-0 is pretty much a swing bar with moving arms and legs.

Takara also has great QA (Not hasbro) as they do smaller runs.

If they can produce an Optimus prime which has a lot of parts, metal, and a fairly intricate transformation and put it on market for $140 bucks... where is that other $100 dollars coming from for Arcadia when you roughly have the same amount of plastic and size?

Idk. I appreciate Mr. K's passion to try to explain it to the fandom, especially when it's something he has little control over, but I don't really buy that they are exploring all options.

*Takara MP rant on*

I think Takaras QA is far worse than the one Arcadia has in place.

Just think about the gate marks on Ultra Magnus forearms or the paint issues on MP Lambor. Aside from that I have many other issues with my Masterpiece Transformers: inconsistent white paint, ugly gate marks cheap feeling red plastic, missing paint apps (I could go on and on and on). I own one of each mold of the Takara Masterpieces and I can at least find one quality/build/design issue on each and everyone. I don't own MP-05 but I don't think he is a good example of a great toy with no QC issues is he?

Which is ok in my book because they are fairly cheap. I would go so far and say that the Takara Masterpiece toys could use a $20 to $50 budget increase for the Carbots and bigger Masterpieces respectively.

If you want to compare the Arcadia Valkyries you should compare them with the Bandai Metal Build and SoC line because they have a much better finish and quality feel to them than Takara collectibles.

*Takara MP rant over*

[sketchley]

(...) but Arcadia is sold in all major (Japanese) outlets and online stores. (...)

No, they're not. They're only sold in specialty hobby shops.

It's the Bandai and Hasegawa stuff that gets sold in some of the major stores, if that. And even then, it's an EXTREMELY limited selection at best.

[Golden Arms]

Good points Scyla. Also all of the MP KO's are case in point of the factories that Takara uses. The KO's are produced in the same factories churning out the official releases. None of them are great examples of exemplary QC. They all have paint issues and some have mold problems. So I second Scyla's caution about the quality of their work.

[Renato]

Hot Toys QA isn't amazing. Considering it's just a doll body with clothes on it. There are always issues. Ripped seems. Cheap paint. All their R&D goes into the sculpt of the head for 70% of their toys.

Anyway - my question is why can't they use the same factories as Takara for their MP line? I don't think Arcadia's transformation are that much more complex than an MP car.

I never transformed the 19, as it seemed fairly complex but the VF-0 is pretty much a swing bar with moving arms and legs.

Takara also has great QA (Not hasbro) as they do smaller runs.

If they can produce an Optimus prime which has a lot of parts, metal, and a fairly intricate transformation and put it on market for $140 bucks... where is that other $100 dollars coming from for Arcadia when you roughly have the same amount of plastic and size?

Idk. I appreciate Mr. K's passion to try to explain it to the fandom, especially when it's something he has little control over, but I don't really buy that they are exploring all options.

Did you listen to the podcast? I directly compared the latest release of MP-10 Optimus Prime -- which I love, because it's just so much fun, don't get me wrong -- with Arcadia's and Yamato's stuff and it is like night and day. And it's not just me, there are complaints all across the board by Japanese users on Amazon.jp -- the reissue appears to be far worse than the earlier versions.

Compared to the precision and internal mechanics of the YF-19, MP-10 is a blocky, ill-fitting red cube.

Add to that the fact that the market is tiny for Arcadia since they cannot cater to anywhere outside Japan, thanks to You Know Whore.

Seriously, I wish these comparisons with Transformers would just stop, I understand that they are almost instinctive, but come on, we all understand why a pound of caviar is more expensive than a pound of bananas.

[Gakken85]

No I didn't listen to it and I don't plan on it. haha.

I just read the interview. I think saying it's an ill-fitting red cube is a big overstatement to sell your point here.

My mp-10 reissue is probably the best fit of any of the four I have owned so who knows. No run is QA free. There are complaints on this board that the yf-19 had a ton of issues... not to mention the problems with the VF-1 re-issues having misaligned paint apps and cheaper plastics.

The VF-0D had braking leg joints and other iffy paint problems.

We always forget the things that don't make our point for us.

The comparisons aren't going to stop because they are both transforming robots.... I know there is a tendency for Macross fans to believe the transformations are so much more intricate, but they aren't. The VF-1 has far fewer steps than most of the MP-cars and the VF-0 is basically the same transformation.

YF-19 aside, that's really only one release that is moderately more complex, and as I said, It doesn't explain 100 dollars + in cost.

Caviar? Hardly. Maybe a tuna steak. They aren't even up to the same standards as the old Yamato releases in terms of paint and plastic quality.

Aracdia is clearly better than the MP stuff, but it's not a giant leap.

It's a moot point anyway. I brought it up because he said there are NO factories that meet their standards, not because they are necessarily perfect matches in terms of product.

As it stands we get a quality product with tons of cost cuts at a price point of a luxury item. Arcadia does just enough to get it out the door and justify the cost. It's hard to swallow that they won't research other factories when they obviously researched how much they would save to cut out all the paint apps from older yamato releases.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Gakken85

[SuperSenpai]

With respect to transformations, I think and argument can be made that MP/KO/3P Transformers are more complicated because each mold requires a new transformation that designers have to figure out and collectors have to learn (since the alt-modes are all fairly unique). Whereas with valks, they are all fighter planes that follow pretty similar recipes, with a few variations. The intake/thrusters are folded down to form the legs, the arms swing out from between the legs, the head is buried somewhere in the middle, etc. Maybe some variations for VF-1 or VF-0 styled transformation where the chest and nosecone stay intact vs. the VF/YF-19 or VF-25 style toys where the nosecone folds and tucks into the chest. But after a while, they are all pretty similar, so from a design perspective there's got to be a lot of opportunity for re-use (thus simplifying the process), and it isn't all that hard for collectors to figure out how to transform these once you've handled a few.

Also, with the valks, the broad strokes of the transformation are already figured out for the toy designers by Kawamori, as you can pretty much see where every major piece goes in all the various modes. The toy designers just need to figure out how to mechanically make everything work. Whereas with MP/KO/3P toys, they generally start with being faithful to a robot mode that looks something like the cartoon, and working backwards to a realistic alt mode. This is a lot harder IMO because the robot modes from the cartoon were huge cheats, with tons of anime-magic and hiding of components. This requires the toy designers to completely redesign the transformation. MP-10 is a great example -- they had to introduce a fake grill just to make the robot mode right, something I doubt you'd see happening on a valk.

[Mechapilot77]

i just read the article and i think its what i expected.

basically, their costs are going up, but they insist on the best quality possible. people noticed that long paraphrased back and forth between him and the factory guys? it was mostly about how their standards for acceptance are very high. Also, we have to realize that being a japanese company, their designers are in japan and earn japanese salaries. the 3P TF comparison (they probably have roughly the same production volume) isn't totaly valid in terms of overhead costs (many are chinese designed and their salaries are lower), and overall quality (again notice the conversation). Also, i get the feeling the 3P engineers and designers are very much more trial/error on their for instance tolerance stacks etc becaus they can afford to have more iterations based on their proximity to the factory. arcadia, ikely have every sinigle thing spelled out on the print that will meet their calculations on what the tolerance stacks shoul dbe etc. Bandai likely does the same thing but the bandai comparison isn't totally fair either because of economies of scale and quality. look at any bandai valk and tell me the fit and finish is as good as arcadia....IMO they are not. arcadia aims for stuff that is difficult to achieve IMO (look at the cited scrap rates). look at the sharpness adn crispness of their lines. note the lack of passing blatant mistakes on like bandai's V1 VF-25 valkyrie's wings. sure yamato and arcadia have build wuality issues, but i don't think they are issues that would ahve been caught on a component or assembly level at the factory.

[Scyla]

I think we should differentiate between qc issues that can occur in all mass manufactured items, issues that stem from bad design, and issues from cost (cutting).

Acracdia products have their fair share of all the three issues

The issue with the glued in leg ball joint of the VF-0 is to me a qc problem because this could be fixed by testing the finished product

The ball joints on the YF-19 ankles is an issue of bad design

The missing paint markings on all the releases so far is an issue of cost cutting.

As said the first type of issues can occur in all products in varying degrees and I think Arcadia is on the better end of the scale but I think it could be better. Takara is clearly worse in that regard imho.

The second type happens seldom with Arcadia products and is far more prevalent on other toy lines. Here I would put most of my complaints with the Masterpiece line (why has MP-10 no double-jointed elbows. etc.)

The third type is a conscious decision and here I don't understand why Arcadia expose themselves to criticism because that could be easily avoided. Stuff like missing paint apps and, wrong color, the VF-19 gun-pod on the YF-19 etc are issues that severely impact my enjoyment of the toy in regards to its price. If I pay $300 for a toy it should not have these kinds of problems and I think I figured out why this is such a big problem for me. If I pay that amount of money I don't want to rebuy a more refined version of the toy later on. If stuff like this is missing there is a chance this will happen and this results in an ever nagging doubt in the back of my head that let me question if my decision to buy Arcadia products was the right one.

Also the third type is nothing I can do do about. I can try to reduce the gate marks on my MP-22 I can try to fix the joints and I can try to avoid stressing the ankles on my YF-19. What I can't to is apply a paint app that blends in nicely with the rest (waters slide decals might be ok but the stickers don't cut it). I can't sculpt in the muzzles vents on the YF-19 gun-pod. I can't paint the whole VF-0D in a more accurate blue (for the record I like the color it has).

I can deal whit these issues much more when the toy was only $150 because there I can see where the cost cutting was necessary for the price point. Sure I would have paid $50 more for MP Star Saber if he had no hollow lower legs and painted plastic parts but I can understand why a toy that is that big and has that many features had to have some corners cut for the price point it was sold.

On a $300 toy I'm far less willing to cope with these issues. I can understand that additional paint apps might have pushed the MSRP into regions where even the hard core fans would have problems justifying a purchase but I'm also far less willing to accept the omission of it.

[Mommar]

Everybody should listen to the podcast about this issue.

[ArchieNov]

I tried to, but it's too long at 1.5 hours. They also talked about a bunch of stuff at the start that I wasn't interested in (Macross 2). If it had a chapter skip points for when a new topic was started, it would be easier for me. Better yet, a transcript or synopsis.

[EXO]

Time stamps were provided on the post.

EP.27

00:03:28 – BrickFest 2015.

00:06:05 – Macross 2 fan gathering.

00:28:58 – The T-shirt Adrian has always wanted.

00:39:13 – Arcadia, toy prices, and Mr. K’s blog post.

[Vifam7]

One thing that was mentioned in the podcast and I thought I'd bring up here is the licensing costs. The podcast mentioned that Arcadia has to re-negotiate for every single license. I imagine that this can be a very difficult for a small company like Arcadia that does not have a lot of cash to play with (unike say Bandai).

Arcadia being a small company probably isn't capable of paying an extensive license fee to Big West. BW in turn will likely limit what Arcadia can and cannot do, and/or limit their license period. In other words, Arcadia has to get as much out of each 1/60 toy release. (whereas Bandai likely paying a bigger fee has more rights and thus more opportunity or angles to make money on a license)

[Golden Arms]

Do we know what licenses Arcadia currently have? How often are licenses typically renegotiated? Is a license for several years, a year, Etc? The podcast got me thinking about these issues and several more.

It was also stated that it makes sense for the factory to only produce toys from a single license at a time to maintain quality. Once they are through with the 0 releases: 0A, 0S, Armor.

[Scyla]

Do we know what licenses Arcadia currently have? How often are licenses typically renegotiated? Is a license for several years, a year, Etc? The podcast got me thinking about these issues and several more.

It was also stated that it makes sense for the factory to only produce toys from a single license at a time to maintain quality. Once they are through with the 0 releases: 0A, 0S, Armor.

That is a good question. So far Arcadia released the two VF-1S from DYRL, the VF-19 Kai with gold highlights from M7, the VF-1J GBP from SDF:M and the VF-0D/A from M0 so at some point Arcadia held all the 1/60th licenses Yamato did with the exception of the license from the games (so no VF-4G) and the license that allowed for the 1/3000 SDF-1. At the moment we can only be sure about the Macross Zero license.

[ArchieNov]

Time stamps were provided on the post.

EP.27

00:03:28 BrickFest 2015.

00:06:05 Macross 2 fan gathering.

00:28:58 The T-shirt Adrian has always wanted.

00:39:13 Arcadia, toy prices, and Mr. Ks blog post.

Oh I missed that. I guess I didn't see it at first because it's a couple of pictures away from the play button and I could only see it if I scrolled the screen down by a page or so.

[neoexcaliber]

Do we know what licenses Arcadia currently have? How often are licenses typically renegotiated? Is a license for several years, a year, Etc? The podcast got me thinking about these issues and several more.

It was also stated that it makes sense for the factory to only produce toys from a single license at a time to maintain quality. Once they are through with the 0 releases: 0A, 0S, Armor.

From what I understand, Arcadia's a new company so whatever licenses Yamato had became void when the company went under so Arcadia releases are typically negotiated from scratch. I also remember hearing in the podcast that Arcadia is relatively new compared to the other companies (even Evolution Toys) so they're not prioritized. The podcasts have also indirectly implied that Big West is milking the franchise (financially) thanks to the success of Frontier so I'm assuming that means higher prices for licenses.

[jenius]

I wouldn't gauge what licenses Arcadia has today by what they released before today. Licenses expire and get pulled. All we know for sure is that they have Macross Zero.

[Xigfrid]

Mr K. has no excuse for making more and more expensive toys nowadays with all the new technologies going around 3D printing and such.

I couldn't imagine why Arcadia could continue to make "traditional" molds knowing their high costs and also knowing that they don't make very large production runs. I came across this small article describing how a European molding company uses 3D printing in hardened ABS to make smaller and swapable molds that would fit a unique injection module. This is just brillant, and that kind of injection method would greatly reduce small production cost such as Arcadia's.

If anyone want to suggest it to Mr. K on his twitter, here is the link to the article: http://3dprint.com/95743/stratasys-hasco-injection-mold/

[Save]

Mr K. has no excuse for making more and more expensive toys nowadays with all the new technologies going around 3D printing and such.

I couldn't imagine why Arcadia could continue to make "traditional" molds knowing their high costs and also knowing that they don't make very large production runs. I came across this small article describing how a European molding company uses 3D printing in hardened ABS to make smaller and swapable molds that would fit a unique injection module. This is just brillant, and that kind of injection method would greatly reduce small production cost such as Arcadia's.

If anyone want to suggest it to Mr. K on his twitter, here is the link to the article: http://3dprint.com/95743/stratasys-hasco-injection-mold/

Arcadia has and is already selling 3D printed Macross products.

The advances in 3D Printing (which is still in it's infancy) pretty much makes everyone a vocal expert.

[Xigfrid]

Arcadia has and is already selling 3D printed Macross products.

The advances in 3D Printing (which is still in it's infancy) pretty much makes everyone a vocal expert.

I don't know what you meant by "selling 3D printed Macross products". I can swear I never saw one that would have been directly painted after being printed.

If you mean that Mr K uses 3D printing to make prototype, it saves only on the prototypes , which to the scale of traditional molding method is almost nothing.

Edited September 16, 2015 by Xigfrid

[Scyla]

I think their Bodolzaa-Class Mobile Fortress that they sold on a Wonder Fest was 3D printed.

[Mechapilot77]

that article linked there (xfrigid's post) is talking about the mold itself being 3D printed. call me...skeptical. that kind of mold won't last more than 10s of or maybe at most 100s of shots and certainly cannot achieve finished parts with the same kind of polish, finish, accuracy and detail traditional steel injection molds can. its good for prototypes and maybe some limited production (think 10-100) maybe with varying quality throughout the run (this is a nightmare when you actually have to assemble those pieces after they come out of molding!!), but then you need to print a new mold after that and who can guarantee results from that mold will be the same as the previous? 3D printing as well as 3D printing the actual molds like any technology has its advantages and drawbacks. the drawbacks to use that in this application (arcadia toys) far far far outweigh the benefits.

as far as 3D printing actual product, yeah it can be done but it will lead to more expensive lower volume product such as limited volume stuff at festivals etc.

[Mommar]

Given that you can type in 3D Printing Molds and come up with that website as the very first link I'm going to assume Xigfrid is ignorant of any of the manufacturing process but is trying to argue his point anyway, did a cursory Google search and that was the first link that came up.

[SpaceCowboy]

I have rarely (ever?) had a Masterpiece Hasbro/Takara break on me. I have had many yamatos break on me. It seems that some people talk about QA and go directly to nitpicking about color shades or small imperfection and compare that to having an entire limb break off and the toy being unusable as equivalent QA issues.

Yamatos/Arcadia are some nice pieces of art, but every single one of them I'm afraid of touching because of their fragility and their price. I have no such fear with the Takara/Hasbro Masterpieces because they are simply more durable and cheaper.

At this point I consider a Yamato a nice painted model that is slightly more durable than a model. Takara/Hasbro can actually take a fair amount of abuse.

[Mechapilot77]

I have rarely (ever?) had a Masterpiece Hasbro/Takara break on me. I have had many yamatos break on me. It seems that some people talk about QA and go directly to nitpicking about color shades or small imperfection and compare that to having an entire limb break off and the toy being unusable as equivalent QA issues.

Yamatos/Arcadia are some nice pieces of art, but every single one of them I'm afraid of touching because of their fragility and their price. I have no such fear with the Takara/Hasbro Masterpieces because they are simply more durable and cheaper.

At this point I consider a Yamato a nice painted model that is slightly more durable than a model. Takara/Hasbro can actually take a fair amount of abuse.

depends. i'd say the vf-1 version 2.1 (new crotch mecahnism is much more handling friendly for beginners) are fairly immune to breaking from skilled handling. yes there are thin sections that can break but they are thin and pointy because they are supposed to be. :-) in contrast..mp-09 for instance...doesn't have 1 version released without major durability issues. then again quality and eurability are not the same thing. i do agree overall that takara and hasbro design their MP releases for more ham fisted handling. mp-09's issues (and mp-0's greenscream) with durability not withstanding. however if we go back to quality....mp lambor's paintjob, mp soundwave's initial release paint issues, spru mark on the face, mp-22's all too visible sprue marks on his arms etc....these types of issues aren't found in arcadia and yamato releases ....for the most part. having the leg come off on the vf-0a....i do think that is a design and or quality issue though...thankfully it can be relatively easily remedied it seems.

[Xigfrid]

Given that you can type in 3D Printing Molds and come up with that website as the very first link I'm going to assume Xigfrid is ignorant of any of the manufacturing process but is trying to argue his point anyway, did a cursory Google search and that was the first link that came up.

In fact I have no idea of their mold costs, but it seems after K comments that they are heavy on the final price. I use to work with mold companies for large steel injection molds (a single part would be at least 30cm in the smaller length) and I know the costs for these: 15k-20k each mold where a single part would cost 25 On a run of 200 pieces per year. As you can see the molds alone represent a large portion of the cost. I am ignorant of how these numbers would scale with Arcadia's model. How many valk do they sold in each run?

To cut the expenses, I have been suggested to work on resin molds, instead of using steel. My company is also working with thermo-formed plastic, and for smaller runs (order of 20) we work with materialise who make something really similar to SLA 3D printing.

Anyway, I feel bad for being judged as an ignorant simply because I am registered to 3Dprint.com newsletter and that I suddenly wanted to share this latest news to illustrate the fact that there are alternative to steel molding. You know that Google will give you the most recent news in its first page.

[Gakken85]

I have rarely (ever?) had a Masterpiece Hasbro/Takara break on me. I have had many yamatos break on me. It seems that some people talk about QA and go directly to nitpicking about color shades or small imperfection and compare that to having an entire limb break off and the toy being unusable as equivalent QA issues.

Yamatos/Arcadia are some nice pieces of art, but every single one of them I'm afraid of touching because of their fragility and their price. I have no such fear with the Takara/Hasbro Masterpieces because they are simply more durable and cheaper.

At this point I consider a Yamato a nice painted model that is slightly more durable than a model. Takara/Hasbro can actually take a fair amount of abuse.

Great point.

bar the VF-1 which has gone through so many redesigns and versions (but even it can break in places) Yamato doesn't have the most sterling track record, especially if you count the V1 years.

[mickyg]

Given that you can type in 3D Printing Molds and come up with that website as the very first link I'm going to assume Xigfrid is ignorant of any of the manufacturing process but is trying to argue his point anyway, did a cursory Google search and that was the first link that came up.

Pretty good assumption there Mommar...

In fact I have no idea of their mold costs, but it seems after K comments that they are heavy on the final price. I use to work with mold companies for large steel injection molds (a single part would be at least 30cm in the smaller length) and I know the costs for these: 15k-20k each mold where a single part would cost 25 On a run of 200 pieces per year. As you can see the molds alone represent a large portion of the cost. I am ignorant of how these numbers would scale with Arcadia's model. How many valk do they sold in each run?

To cut the expenses, I have been suggested to work on resin molds, instead of using steel. My company is also working with thermo-formed plastic, and for smaller runs (order of 20) we work with materialise who make something really similar to SLA 3D printing.

Anyway, I feel bad for being judged as an ignorant simply because I am registered to 3Dprint.com newsletter and that I suddenly wanted to share this latest news to illustrate the fact that there are alternative to steel molding. You know that Google will give you the most recent news in its first page.

[treatment]

I have rarely (ever?) had a Masterpiece Hasbro/Takara break on me. I have had many yamatos break on me. It seems that some people talk about QA and go directly to nitpicking about color shades or small imperfection and compare that to having an entire limb break off and the toy being unusable as equivalent QA issues.

Yamatos/Arcadia are some nice pieces of art, but every single one of them I'm afraid of touching because of their fragility and their price. I have no such fear with the Takara/Hasbro Masterpieces because they are simply more durable and cheaper.

At this point I consider a Yamato a nice painted model that is slightly more durable than a model. Takara/Hasbro can actually take a fair amount of abuse.

Well, I guess you're just lucky or you just didn't have the infamous MP-09 Rodimus.

The MP-cassettes were also reported to be quite fragile, especially Laserbeak...

As such, Takara/Hasbro MPs and Yammies/Arcadias have quite different levels of complexities, aesthetics and functions that they are really just not comparable.

[SuperHobo]

After disassembling a few Arcadia valks and then reassembling them for maintenance purposes, I have come up with a perfectly logical explanation for why the factory is charging so much. First of all, the factory charges so much money because their workers have to deal with the frustration of Arcadia's bone headed engineering ideas to make it as unbuilder friendly as possible. I would imagine the high amount of scrap rate is due to workers getting fed up and throwing the parts at a wall a few times before finally finishing a limb. This could also explain how some of the hips were falling off the zero series.

-This was just a lighthearted post for fun. But seriously taking apart some Yamato valks were not super difficult, but Arcadia seems to go out of their way to make sure screws are all hidden or parts are glued shut..........or parts needed to be aligned at just the right angle, time of day and moment of heat to be able to screw them back together.

Edited September 18, 2015 by SuperHobo

[Silverstreak]

Well, I guess you're just lucky or you just didn't have the infamous MP-09 Rodimus.

The MP-cassettes were also reported to be quite fragile, especially Laserbeak...As such, Takara/Hasbro MPs and Yammies/Arcadias have quite different levels of complexities, aesthetics and functions that they are really just not comparable.

I owned Takara V1 MP-09, no problems. Sold it cause I needed some fast cash. Many months later I bought the Hasbro version. It gets no special treatment over any other MP when being transformed and definitely gets a rougher handling then my Arcadia YF-19. No problems.

MP Laserbeak - No problems.

MP Megs is probably the only exception. It gets handled _very_ carefully. More so than the YF-19.

I think that Arcadia need to do some factory shopping. I highly doubt that the one they're using is the only one that can meet their demands. There's always someone out there willing to do it cheaper.

[VF5SS]

Hasbro Rodimuses are rather infamous for breaking.

Hasbro'd.

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/mp-rodimus-s-broken-arms-hasbro-t86877s10.php

[SpaceCowboy]

I own several hundred transformers, most of the MP line (many I own 2 of), including one Takara MP-09 and a Hasbro Rodimus, all the Soundwave cassettes, and the only one that has had a small part break (that was not essential for transformation) was Megatron ( I accidentally broke a tab off when I didn't know what I was doing - however it still transforms fine). Of the several hundred deluxe-class transformers I own, I think I've had 2 break (these are $15 toys mind you)

I have probably a couple dozen Macross related items (mostly Yamato, but some Bandai as well), and off the top of my head I have a 1/60 YF-19 sitting next to me with a cracked fuselage and comes apart at the waist, I have a 1/72 YF-21 with a broken arm, another 1/72 VF-11B with a broken leg. I will admit that Yamato/Arcadia have gotten better in recent years, but you still hear stories of cracked shoulders, cracked hips, floppy joints (SV-51) etc from what I'm guessing is very gentle usage from members here. There is even a forum post somewhere on here that lists which Macross items are "safe" to buy.

I'm more careful with my expensive yamato purchases than I am my takara/hasbro stuff and they STILL break more frequently.

I usually don't get into this on these topics, because this is such a pro-Yamato board, but there is just no comparison in the quality, from what I've seen. From a line art perspective, paint app, and elegance, sure, Yamato all the way. But if you want something that is less likely to break, Takara/Hasbro by a long shot. (and personally, I even prefer Bandai over Yamato from a "will this thing break" perspective, Bandai just makes it hard to buy their stuff. T_T )

Don't take this wrong. I actually love my macross collection even more than my transformer collection. I like Macross better in general. It's why I spend stupid absurd amounts of money on a toy that has a high likelihood of breaking on its first transformation. But don't think for a second it doesn't piss me off that that is several hundred dollars down the drain when a toy breaks. Which probably explains my outrage when they do break.

Edited September 18, 2015 by SpaceCowboy

[treatment]

Imho, any (or all) non-MP TFs just look plain stupid and fugly compared even to the old craptacular breakage-prone 1/72 VF-11.

Heck! They all look stupid, fugly and cheap walmart-clearance plastic against even the old 1/55 Bandai Chunkies.

They don't even have diecast content like Bandai and Yamato valks.

---

Fwiw, I feel your pain about breakage-prone valks. I don't have YamatoToys' old 1/72 VF-11 or 1/72 YF-19 or a 1/60 VF-0A, but I still completely understand your (and everyone else's) pains and sufferings about these breakage-prone valks.

All of us do.

However, that is why you go here to MWF and become a member to find out if the valk you saw somewhere is worth your purchase and/or the headaches/heartaches.

No one willingly wants to get scalped with a breakage-prone valk.

You just don't buy any of them.

That said, no one really forces you or anyone to buy a valk made by Yamato, Arcadia or Bandai.

It's may seem that MWF is pro-YamatoToys, but that's just because the Yammies were just the closest renditions of the valks we saw and fell in love from the anime. Not perfect, but better than Bandai or Wave or whoever produced valk-toys when YamatoToys was in existence.

Nowadays lot of us give major griefs, hostility and whining directed towards Arcadia for their shenanigans because we totally and unequivocally _expect_ them to be a better YamatoToys in every damn way, but most especially in

• Quality
• Aesthetics/Engineering
• Colors
• Pricing
• Communications

Is Arcadia meeting any of those today?

Maybe in some only...

[SpaceCowboy]

"However, that is why you go here to MWF and become a member to find out if the valk you saw somewhere is worth your purchase and/or the headaches/heartaches. "

That works if you are searching for something on sale or long after the fact on ebay. But with the wide swings in availability, I never know what is going to become rare and even more ludicrous/plaid-speed expensive, or what will become common, so in general, I pick up at least one on initial release. I know I wouldn't have a VF-4 if i hadn't just preordered it from the get-go. I've even thought about selling it a few times just because the mark up is so high on it. But then I wouldn't have a VF-4.

That's why I still feel justified in complaining when my expensive $300+ valk breaks.

(Though to be honest, nowadays, I don't usually transform them until I can score another one on sale, or they've released a version 2, so that I know I have more opportunity to purchase the same/improved valk should breakage occur)

Yes, I realize the psychosis of the above statement.

Edited September 19, 2015 by SpaceCowboy