Topcoat Question (newbie)

[HannouHeiki]

I'm a newbie modeler, and I've gotten pretty far on my first kit (Hasegawa SDF-1).

I have no airbrush. I am using Mr. Color rattle cans and thinned bottled paint for touch up.

For my next build, I plan on doing the same kit again, except I'll be using Tamiya rattle cans for the main colors.

My planned next steps are: Use Gunze Topcoat gloss, enamel panel line, enamel detail, then decal.

Anyway, I was trying to stockup on some more Gunze Topcoat for my next model, but the store I've been using is out.

What other topcoats are safe to use on top of Mr. Color and Tamiya rattle cans? I hear the gunze coats are water based, but the Testors and Tamiya products advertise themselves as using lacquer base.

[MechTech]

Ultimately what you need to do is some tests. Most people swear by Future, but that needs an airbrush (something you'll want to consider if you stay with the hobby).

Some people like Testor's clear coats, personally I haven't liked the way it laid down in the past. I actually use Krylon's clear coats and paints, plus you get about twice as much for the same price. The Tamiya should work fine. I mention testing first because things happen and you don't want to ruin your model. It looks like you're in Georgia; if that's the case, watch the humidity. High humidity will cloud your nice finish. I spray small amounts in an empty room, move the model to an empty room or closet and let it dry there. Then I'd just air-out the sprayed in drying areas later (usually the laundry room). The A/C keeps the humidity down, that's why a garage won't work (unless it's cooled too).

Keep in mind if you are using decals, to use a gloss coat first, then another gloss coat to seal them. Decals on dull coat look like stickers - trust me! If you desire a dull coat (more realistic for the SDF-1), that will go on very last with any weathering.

If you are panel lining with pencil, you're good. If you are using a wash or acrylics, you may want to before the clear coats. The clear coats, especially if you're new to this, can be heavy and fill your panel lines in.

It's a lot, but hopefully that helps. I'm sure they'll be more people helping you here too! - MT

[chyll2]

correct me if I am wrong but Mr. Color, is similar with TS line of Tamiya, both are solvent based paint or Lacquer. (both cant be removed by Alcohol even if you submerge it in days) By modelling painting knowledge, Lacquer > Enamel > Acrylic.

There are two Gunze top coat as well, the gray one is Solvent based while the smaller and blue/green (sorry I am bad with color naming) is Acrylic or water based (can be easily removed by alcohol)

If you use Mr. Color or TS tamiya paints, then any top coat should be safe enough. Just make sure that you do it lightly, no wet coats (to avoid reactivating the enamel panel line).

And also, you can even use lacquer top coat on acrylics/enamel as long as

1. The acrylic paint is fully cured

2. Lacquer is applied through Misting

[HannouHeiki]

Mech, thanks for the tip on panel lining before the clear coats. The standard wisdom is usually the opposite, but the panel lines are tiny on the SDF-1. Much smaller than any airplane model.

Chyll2 - Mr. Color is soluble in alcohol. I've stripped parts just by soaking them in 91% isopropyl alcohol. The paint doesn't lift off, but it gets soft and can be rubbed or brushed off.

I have a fear of using any other topcoat other than the Gunze type...

Mech - I'm getting the impression you're saying that I can use multiple clear types (enamel, acrylic, or water based) on cured acrylic paint, such as Tamiya or Testors, as long as I test first. Is that right?

Edited September 1, 2015 by HannouHeiki

[mickyg]

HannouHeiki: Mr Color should not be soluble in alcohol, as it's a solvent (lacquer) based paint. Gunze Aqueous would be, which is their other paint line.

However, I've been doing some reading up on old Gunze and it seems they've changed their bottle labels. It's always been GSI in some fashion, which I assumed was "Gunze Sangyo International" but perhaps that's not the case. Either way, there's some confusion on what you're getting and in some cases, it's not clear if it's water or lacquer based. It used to be "Mr Color" was lacquer and "Mr Hobby" was something else.

Long story short, apparently the paint number is the dead giveaway. If it starts with an H, it's the water based one and should be, as you've noticed, soluble in alcohol. If it doesn't start with an H, it's lacquer based and should be quite safe to apply almost anything over, as long as it's cured and as long as it's not lacquer and applied to heavily.

Hope that helps.

[HannouHeiki]

The Mr. Color I'm using is mostly from rattle cans, but I do have C bottles for touch up.

I have done lots of stripping with alcohol. I even use alcohol pads from the pharmacy to wipe off certain areas.

It is not lacquer paint. It is acrylic in a lacquer type solvent. I promise you that if you dipped a part in 91% isopropyl that you can brush it off with a toothbrush. If you let it soak you could even wipe it off with a paper towel.

I am a newbie...but I've been OVD and spent enough time fixing nitpicky mistakes to be able to confirm this.

Edited September 2, 2015 by HannouHeiki

[wmkjr]

I am a newbie...but I've been OVD and spent enough time fixing nitpicky mistakes to be able to confirm this.

Obsessive Valkyrie Disorder. I got that too.

Good info here and the Beginner's guide to modeling as I'm also a newbie and about to start on my first model build.

[HannouHeiki]

Hah. meant OCD, but my phone autocorrected. Doing an SDF-1, but I definetely have a variant of OVD...

[chyll2]

there might be a change, I remember using MR color spray and once fully cured (on a primed model using tamiya), 70% iso alcohol can't even soften or chipped it. The same thing about TS paints. Again, I am talking about rattle cans since I, myself, dont have AB.

I can no longer confirm it since I am using Tamiya Paints now. (TS and AS)

as for the topcoat, you can actually use anything as long as you test it first but I understand your comfort level with using MR Top coat by Gunze, they are basically the safest topcoat that you can use on a spray can form (though I find it also the weakest, not a big deal since I only use it for flat finish)

[mickyg]

HH: Good to know. And definitely not doubting your experience. I can safely say the water based ones would dissolve much more than what you're describing, so perhaps there's something that weakens in the lacquer formulations, at least enough for it to make it easier for it to come off.

[HannouHeiki]

I think it's lacquer solvent on acrylic paint. The solvent dries off, really fast unless you add thinner, just leaving acrylic paint.

Last night I tested paint sprayed from Tamiya cans , and they wiped off from alcohol pads too.

If it has cured, I may need to leave it submerged for hours, and only a toothbrush will get it off by then. I have to keeping dipping the brush into alcohol to keep it going.

I think it's all about how hard it bites the primer. The lacquer solvent may help the paint adhere to primer more strongly.

[Galaxy_Stranger]

When I was in high school, I never had any problems mixing paints and finishes on my lead/tin alloy miniatures. In fact, I had some pretty weird stuff. I used Enamels, acrylics and some other stuff that was probably acrylic, but it kinda came out rubbery. And then I would apply Testors gloss cote. Never had any problems with one paint eating the other. Of course, most of the time I was painting acrylics on top of dried enamels.

I've also seen good results from this stuff, which is also UV resistant so it shouldn't turn yellow: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Painter-s-Touch-2X-12-oz-Gloss-Clear-General-Purpose-Spray-Paint-249117/100670438

Soon, I'm going to experiment with some automotive clear finish. In fact, I can tell you that using automotive lacquer paints is actually cheaper than just about anything else, (if you can find your colors), because they don't sell it in 1/2oz bottles for $5 a pop. Also, lacquers are much thinner than any other paint so it's much less likely to fill in the details of your model. So, I always try to get a hold of a can of lacquer primer as a base. To my knowledge, it'll take soaking in something like Automotive Degreaser to get it off.

[ce25254]

I don't mean to divert this thread but have a topcoat issue, specifically with Future. I added Tamiya Flat Base X-21 to the Future in my airbrush cup, mixed with a toothpick, and got this result today. Is this just a matter of too much flat base? What should I do to remove these spots? Some parts have been painted, some have not been painted.

[chyll2]

it is a matter of too much flat base. Alcohol or anything that strips acrylic can remove, though if your painted parts are acrylics, those will be removed as well.

[EXO]

I've been using Duplicolor Spray cans for a top coat. They're the only ones that I can find that have matte. I'm actually liking it a lot. Cheaper than Tamiya per volume and they're acrylic enamels so they're kinda tough, specially because they're made for cars. They probably won't last as long as Future... I've had the same bottle forever, in fact it's my first bottle of future I've ever bought, but sometimes I prefer to just spray than to mess with cleaning the airbrush. Again, please test it out before you cover your models and kits with it.

They have them under Acrylic Enamel label now but I'm pretty sure they're the same fornulation as the wheel clear coat.

http://www.duplicolor.com/product/premium-enamel