Paladinrja Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 That's because you're an awful person, who enjoys Paladinrja's pain. What pain? I am quite comfortable with where I am coming from. I actually think its kinda funny that people want to get stuck on an allegorical comment (that makes perfect sense to me), made as a personal observation and undocumented specifically, that otherwise really doesn't change anything other than how one views whom was involved. I don't buy that those involved with Macross and part of that business didn't provide their advice or input simply because they were not at the helm or directly responsible with it. Thats not how this business works and my comment in a long post was just a single comment. I don't want to get stuck on it either. The post was essentially an opinion about Macross II. Thats not going to change.
Gubaba Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 A wrong opinion. And I've got a feeling that's not going to change, either.
JB0 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I don't buy that those involved with Macross and part of that business didn't provide their advice or input simply because they were not at the helm or directly responsible with it. Thats not how this business works ... Indeed. Typically, when a rights-holder doesn't bring the original creator on board for a production, it means they don't want the creator's opinion, and will actively lock them out of providing input. I'm pretty sure THAT'S how this business works, as with most other businesses. I do acknowledge that in this case, the lack of Studio Nue involvement was likely more due to at least one of the primary staff being uninterested than an active attempt to shut anyone out, but that hardly bolsters any case that they were involved "under the table". Rather the contrary, actually.
Paladinrja Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Indeed. Typically, when a rights-holder doesn't bring the original creator on board for a production, it means they don't want the creator's opinion, and will actively lock them out of providing input. I'm pretty sure THAT'S how this business works, as with most other businesses. I do acknowledge that in this case, the lack of Studio Nue involvement was likely more due to at least one of the primary staff being uninterested than an active attempt to shut anyone out, but that hardly bolsters any case that they were involved "under the table". Rather the contrary, actually. Unsurprisingly adults with money are responsible professionals whom seek to do on-going business together. Your synopsis is childish. You may not agree with what your network of monetization decides to do with IP you are grouped into but you deny your support and especially money? No one will do business with you again. In all honesty, I am pretty confident that given the character designer is brought into the project that generally means his network still surrounds him on the IP and is creatively necessary. I can only speculate but feel that the only reason why Kawamori-san didn't direct M2 was most likely because (apart from being involved with other work) it was too far removed from what had already been done with Macross up to FB2012 and didn't feel he could take it where the script was going with M2. This changed rather quickly after video games started being made (unsurprisingly). Does it matter that AIC studio'd the production and Nue didn't? Not at all, it was great animation. What Macross II wasn't was Macross. If people want to look at it as some kinda futuristic macross story then fine, I will never tell anyone their feelings are wrong. I am just stating my opinion that it should be dismissed for the right reasons. Not because this person or that studio wasn't chiefly on the production of it. "What if Zentradi were immune to culture shock and automated Min mei attacks?" Ya cool story, well then why even Macross? Thats my point. The whole story was Megazone 23 III Part A & B with a Macross skin. For me that was disappointing.
JB0 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) Unsurprisingly adults with money are responsible professionals whom seek to do on-going business together. Your synopsis is childish. You may not agree with what your network of monetization decides to do with IP you are grouped into but you deny your support and especially money? No one will do business with you again.My synopsis is based on observation of how business actually works. And no, if you have a hot property, you can do whatever the heck you want to it and people will line up for it. Even knowing the original creators aren't involved. Even knowing you have a terrible track record. I hate people for it, but in many cases that is EXACTLY how it works. I can only speculate but feel that the only reason why Kawamori-san didn't direct M2 was most likely because (apart from being involved with other work) it was too far removed from what had already been done with Macross up to FB2012 and didn't feel he could take it where the script was going with M2.Why would they only want him as a director? Surely you would want one of the creators onboard at the early concept stage, not approaching them once you had a story set in stone. Does it matter that AIC studio'd the production and Nue didn't? Not at all, it was great animation. What Macross II wasn't was Macross. If people want to look at it as some kinda futuristic macross story then fine, I will never tell anyone their feelings are wrong. I am just stating my opinion that it should be dismissed for the right reasons. Not because this person or that studio wasn't chiefly on the production of it. "What if Zentradi were immune to culture shock and automated Min mei attacks?" Ya cool story, well then why even Macross? Thats my point. The whole story was Megazone 23 III Part A & B with a Macross skin. For me that was disappointing. And that's a pretty fair approach to things. But as you said, it wasn't Macross. That makes it easy for a Macross fan to dismiss out of hand. Good show or not, it isn't Macross. I have no real opinion on it, having not seen it in many years. Mostly I just remember Ishtar and her business suit. Edited September 17, 2015 by JB0
Paladinrja Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 My synopsis is based on observation of how business actually works. And no, if you have a hot property, you can do whatever the heck you want to it and people will line up for it. Even knowing the original creators aren't involved. Even knowing you have a terrible track record. I hate people for it, but in many cases that is EXACTLY how it works. Why would they only want him as a director? Surely you would want one of the creators onboard at the early concept stage, not approaching them once you had a story set in stone. And that's a pretty fair approach to things. But as you said, it wasn't Macross. That makes it easy for a Macross fan to dismiss out of hand. Good show or not, it isn't Macross. I have no real opinion on it, having not seen it in many years. Mostly I just remember Ishtar and her business suit. I'm not really all that interested in a business semantic discussion that really adds nothing to the topic. I thought it was mostly understood. I myself am an engineer and if I go back to revise a project (even if its ten years ago) I attempt to bring the same people in. Why? Because like minded individuals that exist on the same wavelength and have practiced with you are bloody hard to find; and if the venture was successful then we are business buddies for life! Who said anything about anything being set in stone. Its well known that during a creative process much changes. Why they would want him on board? Who knows, maybe because he had already taken them to success. I am just saying the same thing you are implying. That its not necessary. My point was that the entire approach was doomed from the start and that had nothing to do with whom was involved but the source concept.
Renato Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Does it matter that AIC studio'd the production and Nue didn't? Not at all, it was great animation. What Macross II wasn't was Macross. It matters quite a bit, considering Studio Nue is not an animation studio. It is a design agency.
Paladinrja Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) It matters quite a bit, considering Studio Nue is not an animation studio. It is a design agency. From recollection Studio Nue are/was an animation film studio. Also from recollection there was a whole bunch of out-sourcing for Macross if you mean that specifically. Edited September 17, 2015 by Paladinrja
Gubaba Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 From recollection Studio Nue are/was an animation film studio. Also from recollection there was a whole bunch of out-sourcing for Macross if you mean that specifically.Then your recollection is faulty.
Paladinrja Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Then your recollection is faulty. Sometimes!.. not in this case.
Seto Kaiba Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Sometimes!.. not in this case. More like "constantly"... even frigging Wikipedia correctly lists Studio Nue as a design studio.
Gubaba Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Yeah, it is not and has never been an animation studio.
Paladinrja Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Yeah, it is not and has never been an animation studio. They have always been an animation film studio. Yes that means design too. In fact they have been around from as far back as the early/mid 70's. Also yes, they could not handle the load on their own and Macross was out sourced to a buncha of studio's.
Vifam7 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) They have always been an animation film studio. Yes that means design too. In fact they have been around from as far back as the early/mid 70's. Also yes, they could not handle the load on their own and Macross was out sourced to a buncha of studio's. No. Studio Nue did not do any actual animation work like key animation, in-betweens, and cel-painting. Edited September 17, 2015 by Vifam7
Seto Kaiba Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 They have always been an animation film studio. Yes that means design too. In fact they have been around from as far back as the early/mid 70's. Also yes, they could not handle the load on their own and Macross was out sourced to a buncha of studio's. Nope... Studio Nue was always a design studio only. You may be conflating it with Tatsunoko Production Co. Ltd., who were the ones doing the animation and who outsourced part of the workload to other studios including AnimeFriend, StarPro, and so on.
Gubaba Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 (edited) They have always been an animation film studio. Source, please? Edited September 17, 2015 by Gubaba
Bariaburu Faita Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 some of the confusion could be due to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studio_Nue its listed as an animation film studio on the right. a much more detailed and accurate description is at: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B9%E3%82%BF%E3%82%B8%E3%82%AA%E3%81%AC%E3%81%88 Source, please?
Renato Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Studio Nue is a design agency that handles settings and illustrations for SF works (novels and TV series). They are not an animation production facility because they do not have the equipment or manpower to do any of that. Think about it this way -- If you are just a scriptwriter, you cannot make a live-action movie by yourself, right? Without a cameraman, actors, boom mike operators, etc., you have no show. Kazutaka Miyatake worked at Studio Nue. Macross was Nue's first original project, and they needed an animation production company to handle the actual animating. So they got together with the advertising agency Big West, which is also not an animation studio, made a deal with Takatoku Toys to provide funding, which is also not an animation studio (I have to cover all my bases just in case), and signed on Tatsunoko Productions, a famous animation production company famous for Speed Racer, Time Bokan, Gatchaman, etc. Animation work was shared chiefly between Tatsunoko, Anime Friend (a subsidiary of Tatsunoko), and Artland (the animation studio where character designer Mikimoto, action choreographer Ichiro Itano, chief director Noboru Ishiguro worked -- It should be noted that Mikimoto was fresh and had only just started working there as Macross was in pre-production, since he was a longtime friend of Kawamori). Further outsourcing was made to the Star Pro studio in Korea, which is where all those awful episodes come from.
Paladinrja Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Yep, Tatsunoko Production comes up mainly credited. You can add Gainax, AIC, Tcraft, Madhouse, Triangle, Statelight, Bandai Emotion/Visual, Shochiku just off the top of my head that have been involved with the IP over the years in both design and production. I'm sure there are many more. I'm not really sure why it was important to get into this semantic. They're all studio's involved with producing the various anime at whatever level.
treatment Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 ??? GAINAX was not even in existence back then. Anno's like an intern or some kind of flunky when he worked on Macross, iirc. As such, where are you getting these stuff?
Seto Kaiba Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 ??? GAINAX was not even in existence back then. Anno's like an intern or some kind of flunky when he worked on Macross, iirc. As such, where are you getting these stuff? He may be recalling the somewhat misleading statement that Macross had contributions from the "nascent" AIC and Gainax. Gainax did technically exist back then, in the form of the university student fan film group Daicon Film... whose members established the studio in '84. Macross was Anno's first real commercial project, IIRC. There was a similar situation with someone from AIC, but I've forgotten the guy's name.
treatment Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 I just want a castoff-enabled Ishtar at 1/7 or 1/6 scale from Griffon or OrchidSeed or A+...
Paladinrja Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) He may be recalling the somewhat misleading statement that Macross had contributions from the "nascent" AIC and Gainax. Yamaga, Hiroyuki ~ Gainax Anno, Hideaki ~Gainax Kakoi, Hiroshi ~ AIC (Dec.) Itano, Ichiro ~ AIC Ishiguro, Noboru ~ AIC Anno-san I think went to Artland with Mikimoto-san. Itano-san continued to excel with Tomino-san and Gundam. Ishiguro-san shouldn't need any introduction at all. There are probably more I can't recall but most of these guys are old guard. Yamaga-san did the opening credits iirc. Edited September 18, 2015 by Paladinrja
azrael Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 1) Off topic. 2) OP hasn't even come back into this thread. 3) OP, Search a torrent site. Download. WATCH. THE. ANIME. Thread locked.
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