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WHO CAN "Macross II, 'Lovers Again' Close-Up",？

STTMRAM

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Seto Kaiba Super Dimension Member

Seto Kaiba

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Are we correct in thinking that this is about the article entitled "Macross II Close Up" in page 12 of Animerica Vol.1 No. 0?

http://www.animenostalgiabomb.com/animerica-first-issue-macross-ii-november-1992/

Oh, that old thing... I've got a couple copies of that one on the shelves in my study.

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Valkyrie Driver Pineapple Eater

Valkyrie Driver

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Well, what do you want to know about Macross 2?

To get answers, you first need to ask some questions. (^_−)−☆

but my english is not good

Step 1) WATCH THE ANIME.

Thanks guys, now I need to clean my computer, because I just spit coffee all over it. (Yes I'm still drinking coffee at 1300 hours...).

In response to the OP, we're a smart bunch (mostly, I'm not included in that), we can figure it out. First step I agree with Azrael, watch the Anime first. Then ask questions about the things you don't understand. Though to be fair, Macross 2 has got to be the most easy to follow and straightforward production in the franchise. It's kind of the stepchild of the franchise, so it's largely ignored, but if Macross 2 is what grabs your attention, fine we'll do everything we can to help you understand it.

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Paladinrja Cannon Fodder

Paladinrja

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I want to do as much as possible to understand MACROSS 2

It was an attempt to circumvent a license that was in far too many hands and at best you can consider it a spin off story with Marducks and Zentradi controlling singsters that somehow mean the Zentradi are immune to any other form of culture shock.

Despite the fact that Macross newbs get all weird about it having supposedly no input from Studio Nue (I don't believe thats the case regardless of whom is the main rights holder) it still somehow magically has Haruhiko Mikimoto at the helm of character design so there goes that theory out the window.

No, the real problem was that it totally evades the entire story, set to evolve from where the original TV series left off and the middling differences (on point in every relevant detail) set out by the briefer version of DYRL/FB2012. I say this because even Kawamori-san has said VERY CLEARLY that both the TV series and the first movie are true. The only thing that was different was that the TV series told a version in 36 episodes and DYRL told the same story in 2hrs. Essentially this is the truth. The essential account of first contact and what happens after is the same.

It makes no difference to the story at all, that Hikaru is a civilian stunt pilot gatecrashing an airshow that evolves into a autoprovoked attack by a booby trapped alien vessel repaired by humans. That further evolves into flying a ramjet in outerspace and space folded tuna... The Movie DYRL made it all so much more believable that both Hikaru and Min Mei were already in their respective roles and still ended up in a desperate period of survival in the bowels of the SDF-1 (sans space tuna!) as the real romance begins when they are trapped in the SDF-1's super structure. See that was the point.

Just like it made no difference that face to face contact with Zentradi occurred in an operation to capture a recon flight, led by Misa and Vermillion squad. It made much more sense to push the story along with Min Mei being captured along with Kai Fun, Roy and the rest, whom would most likely have given the Zentradi first hand experience with culture shock and its impact. In short, DYRL was a more mature telling of a great love triangle against the backdrop of a the human fight for survival and an inter galactic war and then was followed by Flashback 2012 which is really about who and what is going to exist on Megaroad 1.

Macross II ignores all of this. Big West got what the fans wanted completely wrong. We wanted to know what happens next with the main characters and Megaroad 1 and instead we got 80+ yrs into an absurd future. Macross plus put the series mostly back on track (at least taking cues from the original TV series) but M7 really gave us what we wanted.

I really hope we get to see what happens with Hikaru, Misa and Min Mei instead of just hearing tidbits in other series. We saw what Max and Millia went through to a point but even they had 7 daughters of which we have only seen 3. All remnant Zentradi fleets whether they are Meltran or Zentran have been declared Rogue, what forced that decision?

Macross II is a good show to watch, but its too far afield of Macross continuity to be anything more than a spin off. Some good sequences but otherwise little to actually do with Macross any more so than Macross plus was. which many believe was really just there to explain where the main Valkyrie types in M7 came from. Just as Macross Zero kinda introduces us to Macross as a prequel and the Vajra which is what Macross frontier is all about and chronologically successive to M7.

Its really kinda time we got back to Megaroad 1 and what happens there. Something important is happening behind everything we are seeing and I bet its all about Megaroad 1 and their return (if indeed they return).

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Renato Galactic Diva

Renato

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Despite the fact that Macross newbs get all weird about it having supposedly no input from Studio Nue (I don't believe thats the case regardless of whom is the main rights holder) it still somehow magically has Haruhiko Mikimoto at the helm of character design so there goes that theory out the window.

Umm.. Mikimoto was never a member of Studio Nue, so there goes that theory out the window. B))

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Seto Kaiba Super Dimension Member

Seto Kaiba

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It was an attempt to circumvent a license that was in far too many hands and at best you can consider it a spin off story with Marducks and Zentradi controlling singsters that somehow mean the Zentradi are immune to any other form of culture shock.

Just as a piece of friendly advice... if you don't know what you're talking about, don't try to bluff your way through.

Big West owns the Macross franchise, they didn't need to circumvent ANYTHING when they worked with AIC to make Macross II.

Despite the fact that Macross newbs get all weird about it having supposedly no input from Studio Nue (I don't believe thats the case regardless of whom is the main rights holder) it still somehow magically has Haruhiko Mikimoto at the helm of character design so there goes that theory out the window.

You believe incorrectly... and, also, Haruhiko Mikimoto was an Artland staffer, not a Studio Nue one.

I say this because even Kawamori-san has said VERY CLEARLY that both the TV series and the first movie are true. The only thing that was different was that the TV series told a version in 36 episodes and DYRL told the same story in 2hrs. Essentially this is the truth. The essential account of first contact and what happens after is the same.

Two things...

First, the Macross II OVA was made after Kawamori took his leave of the franchise and before they started trying to rationalize the differences between DYRL? and the original series in any serious way.

Second, the actual events and setting of both versions of the First Space War are rather different. It's not an identical story at two different run times. The bare basics are (partially) the same, but they're very much two different stories and settings.

Macross II ignores all of this. Big West got what the fans wanted completely wrong. We wanted to know what happens next with the main characters and Megaroad 1 and instead we got 80+ yrs into an absurd future. Macross plus put the series mostly back on track (at least taking cues from the original TV series) but M7 really gave us what we wanted.

Please don't confuse what you personally wanted with what the fandom as a whole wanted.

Seriously... you're trying to blast Macross II for not being a direct sequel to the original series and having minimal connection to it. Then , in the same breath, you try to praising the other 90's Macross shows for... not being direct sequels to the original series and having minimal connection to it.

(I suppose part of your discontent may be in that the Macross II prequels never made it to the states, so you never got to see the return of Britai, and Komilia's 15 minutes of fame as a Valkyrie ace.)

I really hope we get to see what happens with Hikaru, Misa and Min Mei instead of just hearing tidbits in other series. We saw what Max and Millia went through to a point but even they had 7 daughters of which we have only seen 3. All remnant Zentradi fleets whether they are Meltran or Zentran have been declared Rogue, what forced that decision?

We won't... Kawamori has always maintained that their story is done. They have their closure, and have sailed off into the sunset (metaphorically).

We saw Max and Milia's kids, yeah... but we see one of 'em take center stage in the Macross II prequels as well. That's not unique.

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Paladinrja Cannon Fodder

Paladinrja

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Umm.. Mikimoto was never a member of Studio Nue, so there goes that theory out the window. B))

He's the character designer. That was my point. Where did I say anything about him being Studio Nue staff? I said that there goes that theory out the window because.. well if you understand how anime is produced you should know why Mikimoto is important.

Just as a piece of friendly advice... if you don't know what you're talking about, don't try to bluff your way through.

Big West owns the Macross franchise, they didn't need to circumvent ANYTHING when they worked with AIC to make Macross II.

You believe incorrectly... and, also, Haruhiko Mikimoto was an Artland staffer, not a Studio Nue one.

Two things...

First, the Macross II OVA was made after Kawamori took his leave of the franchise and before they started trying to rationalize the differences between DYRL? and the original series in any serious way.

Second, the actual events and setting of both versions of the First Space War are rather different. It's not an identical story at two different run times. The bare basics are (partially) the same, but they're very much two different stories and settings.

Please don't confuse what you personally wanted with what the fandom as a whole wanted.

Seriously... you're trying to blast Macross II for not being a direct sequel to the original series and having minimal connection to it. Then , in the same breath, you try to praising the other 90's Macross shows for... not being direct sequels to the original series and having minimal connection to it.

(I suppose part of your discontent may be in that the Macross II prequels never made it to the states, so you never got to see the return of Britai, and Komilia's 15 minutes of fame as a Valkyrie ace.)

We won't... Kawamori has always maintained that their story is done. They have their closure, and have sailed off into the sunset (metaphorically).

We saw Max and Milia's kids, yeah... but we see one of 'em take center stage in the Macross II prequels as well. That's not unique.

Your word of advice back atchya. Firstly, I don't think you know what the word metaphorically means, I feel you mean rhetorically? Secondly, Big West have a majority share to the IP but its split up six ways from Sunday with a whole buncha business. Lets not even start with Harmony Gold and western licensing. I'm sorry but you really don't know everything. So lets not start being rude, ok? I am not interested in talking about some corporation business and the semantic arguments that come from that. My point was that Mikimoto is still the character artist. If you understand how anime is made and produced this should say a lot.

Thirdly, I have never seen anything about Macross in English. To date even. Its always been in Japanese. Its the only way I know it. Tried to watch Robotech, the dialogue was so childish that I honestly couldn't watch it for long.

Macross II, I am sorry to inform you, is a direct result of BW whoring out the IP becaus and nothing else. Kawamori-san didn't need to be involved and wasn't interested at that point in time in continuing the IP.

DYRL? and TV '83 are essentially the same story. I don't care for arguments about what is merely filler for 36 episodes. I personally think they don't create much differentiation and DYRL? condensed the TV series very well and very maturely.

I am not confusing what I want with what tropes with fans. I am curious about the same things that fans are for the same amount of time. I have lived through every second of Macross since '83. I am sorry if it bothers you that I happen to think that Macross II is pointless but in all honesty, No one asked for 80yrs into the future Macross. Not then, and not now. We are thus are 47yrs past Macross original. I only just realised you are a big fan of Macross II. Just because someone criticises something you like doesn't mean they are blasting it. I never said it wasn't worth watching, on the contrary I had actually stated that it was good for what it is.

However, there is no denying it doesn't change or progress the story at all; whilst at the same time being pretty much a recap of Macross. That 80+yrs into the future played out more like it was yesterday. Really, try embracing different points of view and not reacting badly to something you simply don't want to read.

Kawamori-san actually said that we would not see a return of any of the original cast. M7 kinda debunks that now, doesn't it?.

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Seto Kaiba Super Dimension Member

Seto Kaiba

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He's the character designer. That was my point. Where did I say anything about him being Studio Nue staff? I said that there goes that theory out the window because.. well if you understand how anime is produced you should know why Mikimoto is important.

You specifically cited Mikimoto's involvement as proof of Studio Nue supporting the production of Macross II in your previous post. He's not a Studio Nue staffer. There WERE returning staffers from other Macross projects working on II, but not from Studio Nue.

Your word of advice back atchya. Firstly, I don't think you know what the word metaphorically means, I feel you mean rhetorically?

You might want to consult a dictionary, because "metaphorically" is the correct word to use there.

Secondly, Big West have a majority share to the IP but its split up six ways from Sunday with a whole buncha business. Lets not even start with Harmony Gold and western licensing. I'm sorry but you really don't know everything. So lets not start being rude, ok?

Lad, you've been caught BSing... don't make it worse on yourself.

This, right here, revealed you don't know what you're talking about.

The IP is not "split up six ways from Sunday". Big West owns the Macross franchise and IP (technically jointly with Studio Nue, but they barely exist at this point), and Tatsunoko has some limited rights to the footage (but not content) of the original series. That's pretty straightforward stuff, really.

Macross II, I am sorry to inform you, is a direct result of BW whoring out the IP becaus and nothing else. Kawamori-san didn't need to be involved and wasn't interested at that point in time in continuing the IP.

Macross II is the result of Big West producing a 10th Anniversary OVA on its own, nothing more or less.

Kawamori-san actually said that we would not see a return of any of the original cast. M7 kinda debunks that now, doesn't it?.

No, he's said the story of the main cast of the original series is over and done with... Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay.

Max is a supporting character.

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Renato Galactic Diva

Renato

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He's the character designer. That was my point. Where did I say anything about him being Studio Nue staff? I said that there goes that theory out the window because.. well if you understand how anime is produced you should know why Mikimoto is important.

So what "theory" are you talking about? This is what you wrote:

"Despite the fact that Macross newbs get all weird about it having supposedly no input from Studio Nue (I don't believe thats the case regardless of whom is the main rights holder) it still somehow magically has Haruhiko Mikimoto at the helm of character design so there goes that theory out the window."

It sounds like an implication that he worked at Studio Nue to me, at least, and apparently it sounded like it to Seto, too.

So if that's not your point, what is it? What's the "theory"? That the character designer is important? OK, fair enough... So why bother bringing up Nue?

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Paladinrja Cannon Fodder

Paladinrja

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So why bother bringing up Nue?

At the time they were still involved with the IP. Even if they are not directly responsible for producing Macross II. Its a creative process in a business. Mikimoto is part of that group which implies their involvement doesn't it?

It started in 82 so there's a number of seconds you're missing.

...oh at least.

Edited by Paladinrja
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Seto Kaiba Super Dimension Member

Seto Kaiba

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At the time they were still involved with the IP. Even if they are not directly responsible for producing Macross II. Its a creative process in a business. Mikimoto is part of that group which implies their involvement doesn't it?

No... Haruhiko Mikimoto wasn't working for Studio Nue, he worked for Artland.

Why would his work on the development of Macross II imply the involvement of a studio he didn't work for...?

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