Who would the natural enemies be to the Proto Devlin?

[Zinjo]

I am curious as to what / who the fanbase would consider the natural enemies to the Proto Devlin would be?

Not necessarily to those PD who possessed the EVIL series bioweapons.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Zinjo

[Mr March]

As they are narratively invincible creatures of unlimited power, there would be none. Unless some how there came into existence a physically organic "tune"

[Seto Kaiba]

I am curious as to what / who the fanbase would consider the natural enemies to the Proto Devlin would be?

Not necessarily to those PD who possessed the EVIL series bioweapons.

Do they need one? The ones encountered thus far were perfectly benign energy lifeforms until they were accidentally trapped in realspace by the Protoculture's folly.

[Zinjo]

What about the Space Whales and the Vajra?

The PD are essentially energy beings in SD Space and those are the only two space creatures we are aware of who regularly travel through Super Dimension Space.

I wonder if they don't feed on PD like a Killer Whale feeds on small fish?

Edited August 16, 2015 by Zinjo

[Zinjo]

As they are narratively invincible creatures of unlimited power, there would be none. Unless some how there came into existence a physically organic "tune"

One could argue the same about the Vajra, given enough time to adapt to their enemies.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

What about the Space Whales and the Vajra?

The PD are essentially energy beings in SD Space and those are the only two space creatures we are aware of who regularly travel through Super Dimension Space.

I wonder if they don't feed on PD like a Killer Whale feeds on small fish?

We really don't know much about the life cycle of the space whales from Macross Dynamite 7 to know what they eat (if anything)... there are allusions to the Vajra sustaining themselves by pulling energy from super dimension space, so it's possible they might become accidental predators of the Protodeviln, if nothing else.

[Mr March]

I suppose that's possible that there is some kind of Super Dimension food chain, but doesn't seem likely to me. I mean, it's not like the Protodevlin would follow any conventional understanding of biology, so who says they need to feed, hunt or exist in any kind of food chain at all? What we understand of them form the little that is written is that they only needed spiritia to exist in Three-Dimensional Space (real space). The narrative of the series doesn't demand anymore and so there is no more

The Vajra were not invincible beings of unlimited power. They had defined limits to kinetic energy, heat and other forms of directed energy as well as limitations for their power sources. They also had a consistent list of abilities and an explanation of how they worked. They had a finite life cycle, a reproductive cycle and a need for consumption and perpetuation, so that they could be a narratively credible spaceborne species.

[Zinjo]

I suppose that's possible that there is some kind of Super Dimension food chain, but doesn't seem likely to me. I mean, it's not like the Protodevlin would follow any conventional understanding of biology, so who says they need to feed, hunt or exist in any kind of food chain at all? What we understand of them form the little that is written is that they only needed spiritia to exist in Three-Dimensional Space (real space). The narrative of the series doesn't demand anymore and so there is no more

Why not? They ate whatever the SD Space equivalent of Spritia was. True, the series' focus was on J-Pop with mecha battles to justify it as a Macross title so serious exposition was limited to only half the episodes.. However, they were hardly invicible, some died and IIRC one was killed. Their power came from the SD Organs inside the EVIL Series bioweapons they possessed. Inside SD Space they could have been as malevolent as a guppy.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Zinjo

[Seto Kaiba]

Why not? They ate whatever the SD Space equivalent of Spritia was. True, the series' focus was on J-Pop with mecha battles to justify it as a Macross title so serious exposition was limited to only half the episodes.. However, they were hardly invicible, some died and IIRC one was killed. Their power came from the SD Organs inside the EVIL Series bioweapons they possessed. Inside SD Space they could have been as malevolent as a guppy.

Super dimension space doesn't exactly play by the same set of rules as the material universe... so it's possible that there might not actually be a food chain in that reality either.

All evidence of the series suggests that, under normal conditions, the Protodeviln were probably not at all malevolent... or, rather, that their ancient malice was a malice born of desperation. Gepernich's big evil plot was basically an effort to turn spiritia into a sustainably-farmed resource instead of going on another galaxy-wide rampage like the one that obliterated the Protoculture. They're not malicious by nature... but the same can be said of the whales and the Vajra. They have enough power to seriously mess an attacker up in realspace, but they're technical pacifists.

[Mr March]

Why not? They ate whatever the SD Space equivalent of Spritia was. True, the series' focus was on J-Pop with mecha battles to justify it as a Macross title so serious exposition was limited to only half the episodes.. However, they were hardly invicible, some died and IIRC one was killed. Their power came from the SD Organs inside the EVIL Series bioweapons they possessed. Inside SD Space they could have been as malevolent as a guppy.

It is stated the Protodevlin need spiritia to continue to exist in Three-Dimensional Space (real space) as they are not native to it. That's the only part of their life cycle that is even remotely analagous to anything we understand as physical/biological life.

I stated the Protodevlin are narratively invincible, which is the case. They HAVE to be, otherwise the entire narrative of Macross 7 falls apart. Perhaps the Protodevlin do have limits and can be defeated by sufficiently powerful conventional means, but whatever those means are, they are far beyond the capabilities of the UNG, the Zentradi and even the Protoculture. If the Protodevlin could be defeated by conventional means, the Anima Spiritia no longer serve any pivitol function in the plot of the Macross 7 series.

[Jasonc]

The only enemy to the Protodeviln was really the inability to produce animals spiritia.

[JB0]

Basically, we don't know what natural threats may have entailed, as we know nothing ABOUT their natural home.

It's kinda like if aliens found some astronauts siphoning air off the alien ship, and tried to deduce something about human society from that. There's just no real way to tell.

[spanner]

with knockers like these who wouldn't have enemies!? hehe! referring to other jealous chicks of course..

[Keith]

Protodevelin in their original super dimensional state have no natural prefators. The EVIL series (unpossessed) are technically inferior to the Vajra, since they're essentially based on them, but don't incorporate the Vajra ability to upgrade, network, or use fold quartz.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Keith

[Keith]

Actually, in the narrative (aside from Frontier not existing yet), I wonder if the Vajra have a natural defense against possesssion. They may have stayed off the radar due to low spiritia (doubt they'd generate much), and without access to their network, they wouldn't be prome to Supervision Army type mind control.

[Valkyrie Driver]

with knockers like these who wouldn't have enemies!? hehe! referring to other jealous chicks of course..

Oh you...

On a related note, I'm not sure I ever really knew what the Protodeviln were. Even having seen M7, I'm still not sure. Though there was a lot from M7 that confused me... Can someone explain this please?

[Mr March]

The Protodevlin are only vaguely defined, but don't really need to be to serve the story such as it is. They are just an energy-based lifeform native to Super Dimension Space (fold space). They came into three dimensional space (real space) hundreds of thousands of years ago by inhabiting the bodies of the advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapons named the "Evil Series" (pronounced Eh-vil). They couldn't exist in our universe without spiritia and so began taking from others. That's pretty much it.

[Zinjo]

Basically, we don't know what natural threats may have entailed, as we know nothing ABOUT their natural home.

It's kinda like if aliens found some astronauts siphoning air off the alien ship, and tried to deduce something about human society from that. There's just no real way to tell.

This is a pure speculation anyway as you state, we do not have enough background to determine exactly what threats they faced in their own dimensioin. However this is simply and exercise in exploring speculative poissibilities, We already know their "weaknesses" in our dimension, the need for Spiritia and emotion, to name a couiple.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Zinjo

[Valkyrie Driver]

The Protodevlin are only vaguely defined, but don't really need to be to serve the story such as it is. They are just an energy-based lifeform native to Super Dimension Space (fold space). They came into three dimensional space (real space) hundreds of thousands of years ago by inhabiting the bodies of the advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapons named the "Evil Series" (pronounced Eh-vil). They couldn't exist in our universe without spiritia and so began taking from others. That's pretty much it.

Sivil seems to be the most memorable (I mean why wouldn't she be...Dat body...), so the body we see her running around in is one of those Evil series super weapons you mentioned? But her actual mind and memories and personality is that of a super-dimensional being? Did the Evil series have any personality to begin with, or do we not have any information on that?

[Seto Kaiba]

On a related note, I'm not sure I ever really knew what the Protodeviln were. Even having seen M7, I'm still not sure. Though there was a lot from M7 that confused me... Can someone explain this please?

The Protodeviln are energy beings that are native to super dimension space... they were accidentally drawn into the bodies of the 7 Evil-series bio-weapons when the experimental bio-technological power plants intended to fuel the Evil series' combat abilities using energy from super dimension space overloaded during testing. The nature of their existence was such that they couldn't survive in lower dimension space-time without harvesting life energy (spiritia) from nearby sentient life forms (the Protoculture and Zentradi).

Consequentially, they went on a bit of a rampage, brainwashed the spiritia-drained scientists who created them and the population of the planet the Evil series was built on, and launched an invasion of the Stellar Republic as the Supervision Army. They wiped out the vast majority of the Protoculture before individuals known as anima spiritia managed to capture them and lock them away in stasis.

Sivil seems to be the most memorable (I mean why wouldn't she be...Dat body...), so the body we see her running around in is one of those Evil series super weapons you mentioned? But her actual mind and memories and personality is that of a super-dimensional being? Did the Evil series have any personality to begin with, or do we not have any information on that?

Yeah, as far as we know the mind at work is the energy life form's... the body is a high-mobility Evil series prototype intended for search-and-destroy operations.

Whether or not the body had a mind of its own before it was "possessed"? Hard to say... they were definitely functioning before their possession, but we don't know if the trial-production Evil series was actually sentient or not on its own.

[spanner]

Oh you...

On a related note, I'm not sure I ever really knew what the Protodeviln were. Even having seen M7, I'm still not sure. Though there was a lot from M7 that confused me... Can someone explain this please?

hehe! yeah sorry about that! Couldn't help myself! M7 was a bit of a trip on its own let along actually making any real sense. Well it did but it was very choppy and they seemed to end it fairly abruptly. Though it was starting to carry on a bit..

The Protodevlin are only vaguely defined, but don't really need to be to serve the story such as it is. They are just an energy-based lifeform native to Super Dimension Space (fold space). They came into three dimensional space (real space) hundreds of thousands of years ago by inhabiting the bodies of the advanced (Zentradi) all-enivron biological weapons named the "Evil Series" (pronounced Eh-vil). They couldn't exist in our universe without spiritia and so began taking from others. That's pretty much it.

this is pretty much spot on I think.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Consequentially, they went on a bit of a rampage, brainwashed the spiritia-drained scientists who created them and the population of the planet the Evil series was built on, and launched an invasion of the Stellar Republic as the Supervision Army. They wiped out the vast majority of the Protoculture before individuals known as anima spiritia managed to capture them and lock them away in stasis.

Now, why does that sound familiar...?

Yeah, as far as we know the mind at work is the energy life form's... the body is a high-mobility Evil series prototype intended for search-and-destroy operations.

Whether or not the body had a mind of its own before it was "possessed"? Hard to say... they were definitely functioning before their possession, but we don't know if the trial-production Evil series was actually sentient or not on its own.

I thought so, but I wasn't sure.

[Zinjo]

Actually, in the narrative (aside from Frontier not existing yet), I wonder if the Vajra have a natural defense against possesssion. They may have stayed off the radar due to low spiritia (doubt they'd generate much), and without access to their network, they wouldn't be prome to Supervision Army type mind control.

Yes and no. Frontier established that if you controlled a Queen, you could control the hive. I doubt it could be compared to the PD mind control over the PC and Zentradi of the Supervison or Varuata Armies.

Consequentially, they went on a bit of a rampage, brainwashed the spiritia-drained scientists who created them and the population of the planet the Evil series was built on, and launched an invasion of the Stellar Republic as the Supervision Army. They wiped out the vast majority of the Protoculture before individuals known as anima spiritia managed to capture them and lock them away in stasis.

If I recall one of Sketchley's translations, the SA already existed. They were the forces that protected the R&D base from enemy attack, during the Civil War.

Yeah, as far as we know the mind at work is the energy life form's... the body is a high-mobility Evil series prototype intended for search-and-destroy operations.

Whether or not the body had a mind of its own before it was "possessed"? Hard to say... they were definitely functioning before their possession, but we don't know if the trial-production Evil series was actually sentient or not on its own.

It is likely they had a "mind" as the EVIL series were bio-weaponized Zentradi, IIRC.

[Seto Kaiba]

Yes and no. Frontier established that if you controlled a Queen, you could control the hive. I doubt it could be compared to the PD mind control over the PC and Zentradi of the Supervison or Varuata Armies.

I would assume that the Vajra would be impossible to "possess" because they're not sentient in a conventional sense, being a hive-wide or species-wide distributed intelligence.

If I recall one of Sketchley's translations, the SA already existed. They were the forces that protected the R&D base from enemy attack, during the Civil War.

That'd be at odds with their description in official chronology materials and Macross Chronicle... both of which assert that the Supervision Army (or Inspection Forces, whichever one rubs your rhubarb) was a force the Protodeviln founded using the brainwashed Zentradi and Protoculture from the planet where they'd been created.

[Zinjo]

I would assume that the Vajra would be impossible to "possess" because they're not sentient in a conventional sense, being a hive-wide or species-wide distributed intelligence.

That'd be at odds with their description in official chronology materials and Macross Chronicle... both of which assert that the Supervision Army (or Inspection Forces, whichever one rubs your rhubarb) was a force the Protodeviln founded using the brainwashed Zentradi and Protoculture from the planet where they'd been created.

I would have to defer to Sketchley to clarify if I am mistaken in my recollection or if the Chronicle retconned some history.

[Paladinrja]

I am curious as to what / who the fanbase would consider the natural enemies to the Proto Devlin would be?

Not necessarily to those PD who possessed the EVIL series bioweapons.

Everyone! ~ in our dimension, anyway.

Selectively able to defeat them? Nothing in this dimension, selectively, naturally; and only through science and being aware of them in the first place. Not that it matters anymore because they have discovered animas spiritia ~ or spiritual energy without limit ~ and how to generate it. The last time the Protodevlin encountered it, it was a select minority of Protoculture purists. The rest of Protoculture was conducting a galactic civil war, largely because the protodevlin were stuck with normal spiritia and no way to revitalize the energy once they fed on it, thus killing their food source and risking the production of a spiritia black hole... which kinda almost happened 487,000yrs later anyway.