So, which is better overall? Arcadia YF-19 or Bandai VF-19 Advance

[Scyla]

I own both and I think that the Arcadia wins if you have it in Fighter-Mode. Here the pros really shine. The better landing gear, less gaps from the top and the overall silhouette beat Bandais offering. I also prefer the way the cockpit opens on a YF-19 compared to the VF-19.

However there are many issues with the Arcadia. The ankle design, the high-speed gimmick, the collapsing stock on the gun-pod are all major cons.

The Bandai really shines if your into complex mechanic design with all the moving parts working together to create a small marvel.

On the marking department I think that the Arcadia looks like it is straight out of Macross Plus. The Bandai VF-19 has clearly more markings than shown on screen and can be quite distracting. It might look more like an actual airplane but for a 1/60 scale toy it is a bit too much for my linkings.

Overall I think Bandai wins but the Arcadia YF-19 has its own strengths where the VF-19ADVANCE is lacking.

[Pedro2k6]

I own both too... in fact I own 1 Arcadia and 2 Bandai..... and I vote for arcadia.... is the best of both, no gap, no floating wing, more solid.

[AlphaOne]

I have both as well and the YF-19 just feels more solid and stable. The plastic feels like it's a higher quality as well

[ArchieNov]

I own both and if one was to rate them objectively (comparison of all pros and cons), Bandai is the clearly the better toy overall.

Sculpt alone seems to be the main thing that is influencing most people to prefer the Arcadia (which is fine if you're judging it subjectively and put most weight/emphasis on aesthetic preference). But sculpt is only one category when doing a complete objective assessment.

And one thing that should be remembered is that the VF-19Advance is not the YF-19 in Macross Plus. Yes they look similar, but the only official images of the VF-19Advance (movie, magazines?) are too scarce so one cannot truly say if the VF-19Advance is line/screen accurate or not. All we know is that Kawamori himself has overseen the proportions, so it should have had his approval.

[Mommar]

It should be remembered is that the VF-19Advance is not the YF-19 in Macross Plus. Yes they look similar, but the only official images of the VF-19Advance (movie, magazines?) are too scarce so one cannot truly say if the VF-19Advance is line/screen accurate or not. All we know is that Kawamori himself has overseen the proportions, so it should have had his approval.

He also oversaw the shitty V.1 25's as well. His stamp of approval on a toy literally means nothing.

[Lolicon]

Kawamori's stamp of approval simply means that the check cleared.

[jenius]

Yeah, it's a paycheck for him and a marketing ploy for whatever company has him come in. That's not to say he can't be paid more for additional input or brought in earlier in the process but just because there's a pic with Kawamori it shouldn't be taken to mean a whole lot. I will say though that I agree with the sentiment, the VF-19Advance is almost certainly a YF-19 put through the CGI process so that the impossibilities of the line art are shed and thus the 'official' line art will appear to be less bulbous than the YF-19 and that will be perfectly correct. So the discussion shouldn't be 'which is more line art accurate' but more 'if your preference is the YF-19 than the Arcadia is that, if your preference is the VF-19Advance then the Bandai is that." If you like a more curvy interpretation of the YF-19 than stick with the Arcadia, if you think the Arcadia looks overly curvy than you like the VF-19Advance interpretation of the vehicle so that's better suited to you.

Edited August 22, 2015 by jenius

[ArchieNov]

I will say though that I agree with the sentiment, the VF-19Advance is almost certainly a YF-19 put through the CGI process so that the impossibilities of the line art are shed and thus the 'official' line art will appear to be less bulbous than the YF-19 and that will be perfectly correct. So the discussion shouldn't be 'which is more line art accurate' but more 'if your preference is the YF-19 than the Arcadia is that, if your preference is the VF-19Advance then the Bandai is that." If you like a more curvy interpretation of the YF-19 than stick with the Arcadia, if you think the Arcadia looks overly curvy than you like the VF-19Advance interpretation of the vehicle so that's better suited to you.

Yup, that's precisely what I was trying to get across. That's why I categorize the sculpt as subjective because it's really about which one pleases you more aesthetically, rather than saying one is more accurate to the line art than the other.

Granted though, Arcadia's sculpt will naturally be under more scrutiny since there's a lot of source material for the YF-19 from Plus. But at the same time, the anime magic at the time also gives it some leeway if it's not 100% similar to what was seen.

As for Kawamori, I don't know how one can simply disregard his input since he is the designer. I would liken it to George Lucas. I absolutely hated what he did with the Star Wars prequels and how he destroyed a lot of the lore on the Extended Universe, but since he's the creator his take has to be considered canon. We don't know for certain how much he was involved with the toy design for the VF-19 Advance, but everything since the YF-29 has pretty much been spot on accurate.

Edited August 22, 2015 by ArchieNov

[Graham]

I hope nobody thinks that Kawamori actually designs these toys, he doesn't. All he does is give some input on what things should be changed at various stages of the design, to fit his vision of what the toy should be like.

Back in the Yamato days here's what would typically happen:

Yamato would contact Kawamori to make an appointment to see him. Typically they may need to wait a few weeks to a month to get an appointment as Kawamori is a busy guy. Once the appointment is set then they would take the toy to show him. Typically, this would be done three times throughout the design phase, first with the CAD drawings and/or resin sculpt, second time with the engineering sample of the toy, third time, with the a final or near final version of the test shot incorporating any changes suggested earlier.

Typically, each time Kawamori would look at the toy and suggest that a part needed to be longer/taller/thicker etc, or an angle changed, the color different etc.

It's not like Kawamori is on the CAD program himself making changes to the design.

Graham

[ArchieNov]

I hope nobody thinks that Kawamori actually designs these toys, he doesn't. All he does is give some input on what things should be changed at various stages of the design, to fit his vision of what the toy should be like.

Back in the Yamato days here's what would typically happen:

Yamato would contact Kawamori to make an appointment to see him. Typically they may need to wait a few weeks to a month to get an appointment as Kawamori is a busy guy. Once the appointment is set then they would take the toy to show him. Typically, this would be done three times throughout the design phase, first with the CAD drawings and/or resin sculpt, second time with the engineering sample of the toy, third time, with the a final or near final version of the test shot incorporating any changes suggested earlier.

Typically, each time Kawamori would look at the toy and suggest that a part needed to be longer/taller/thicker etc, or an angle changed, the color different etc.

It's not like Kawamori is on the CAD program himself making changes to the design.

Graham

Yup, that's what I meant. That's why I said that he oversaw the proportions. When I said "designer", I wasn't referring to the toy's design but meant the valk's design. So basically, he's the one who has the final say whether something looks right or not compared to his valk's design.

We don't know how many times he was consulted, how close he was working with the toy's designers, or how many compromises (if any) were made between the toy's proportions and his valk design (hence why I mentioned his involvement with the toy's design), but the end proportions of the toy should've gotten his final approval. I'm not saying that the toy's proportions are perfect, but it should've been good enough for Kawamori to let them put his name on the toy's product details.

Edited August 22, 2015 by ArchieNov

[Valkyrie Driver]

Subjectively the Arcadia is the best Macross Plus YF-19 toy, because it's better than the two previous Yamato Attempts. Also the VF-19Adv isn't a YF-19 toy, it looks like one, the colors are similar, the shape is similar, but it wasn't marketed as a YF-19 so it can't really be compared to one. The Bandai was based off a CGI model, which is going to make it look different, as the computer won't fudge proportions to make it look cool. We're fortunate that Macross Plus didn't do as much of that proportion shifting on the YF-19 as Macross 7 did on the VF-19.

I think the VF-19Adv is a better toy, for a number of reasons:

-Very few cut outs to accommodate the transformation

-Inclusion of more articulation

-tons of diecast parts, and where they really count

-High quality engineering

-High attention to detail (seriously it has detail in places that few will really notice)

-Included stand (as awful as it is, it's still a stand, and still included)

-Better accessories (I'll take fixed pose hands, and super parts over a boatload of weapons we never see it carry)

-Greater Availability

-Lower price point

-High quality (not that the arcadia isn't, just compared to some of the issues I've had with previous Macross Toys)

Yes, the transformation is more complicated than the Arcadia, but comparing to other bandai DX toys, it's a very solid and simple design, compared to the overengineered nightmare that the VF-171 (I still like it, but it's got serious annoyances and scary joints) and was, and the floppy shoulders of the VF-25 renewal (the only issue I have with that toy), or the total cluster frakk that the V1 VF-25's were (mine went back in it's box when I got my renewal).

I say that if you're a fan of the design of the YF-19, but aren't hung up on the lack of proper markings, and don't mind a few cosmetic differences, the Bandai is the way to go. As I have scratched the Macross Plus itch with the original Yamato 1/60 (by all rights a fantastic attempt for the time, and a great display piece) I vote the Bandai, because it plays better than my Yammie. I'd have been much happier with it if it had been done in VF-19A colors, with all the proper markings, but, beggars can't be choosers.

Like I said, if you're hung up on Plus, get the arcadia, but if you're like me, and just want a great YF-19 style toy the Bandai beats it hands down.

[Reïvaj]

Yup, that's what I meant. That's why I said that he oversaw the proportions. When I said "designer", I wasn't referring to the toy's design but meant the valk's design. So basically, he's the one who has the final say whether something looks right or not compared to his valk's design.

We don't know how many times he was consulted, how close he was working with the toy's designers, or how many compromises (if any) were made between the toy's proportions and his valk design (hence why I mentioned his involvement with the toy's design), but the end proportions of the toy should've gotten his final approval. I'm not saying that the toy's proportions are perfect, but it should've been good enough for Kawamori to let them put his name on the toy's product details.

Wait. Are you saying Bandai got Kawamori's approval and Arcadia didn't?

[jenius]

I'm pretty sure he's saying that the VF-19Advance looks like a VF-19Advance should because Kawamori gave his input and that differences between the YF-19 and the VF-19Advance are intentional as the VF-19Advance is a different plane. The original comment was that the VF-19Advance shouldn't be held directly against YF-19 line art for that reason; the VF-19Advance will have it's own line art more rooted in CGI so some of the sweeping curves of the YF-19 will not exist and this will be appropriate, not something that should be held against it. Certainly if people like the curvy nature of the hand drawn YF-19 that's great but complaints about the VF-19Advance not looking exactly like a YF-19 should be tempered with the understanding that the VF-19Advance will have intentional differences from the YF-19 as part of the VF-19Advance's heritage of being a 3D modeled interpretation.

[ArchieNov]

Yup, jenius got it.

I don't know about Arcadia not getting Kawamori's stamp of approval. I'd like to assume they did, but I haven't seen any public documentation saying so. If what Graham says about Yamato consulting with Kawamori holds true for Arcadia, then perhaps they did but just didn't mention it in their product notes (unless I missed it).

[Lolicon]

"If it looks like a YF-19, walks like a YF-19, quacks like a YF-19..."

I don't personally care that the VF-19Adv differs from the YF-19 and its lineart, but comparisons are going to be made, whether one likes it or not. Long-winded internet rants aren't going to stop that.

Even if Arcadia didn't get Kawamori's stamp of approval... so what? His stamp doesn't magically make a shitty toy into a great one, or lack of a stamp makes a good toy into a crappy one.

[ArchieNov]

I think you're missing the point... No one was saying Kawamori's approval made something bad or good...

[sh9000]

Eh I own both the YF-19 and VF-19 Advance. Here's a better question: which company will last longer?

[jenius]

I don't think that's a 'better' question at all... it requires a speculative albeit obvious answer that's irrelevant to products already on shelves... it's not like these are cars we can bring in for service in five years... unless you're trying to ascertain which will be the better collector's item and the answer to that is "neither, someone will make a V3 eventually that will destroy the value of both."

[Reïvaj]

I'm pretty sure he's saying that the VF-19Advance looks like a VF-19Advance should because Kawamori gave his input and that differences between the YF-19 and the VF-19Advance are intentional as the VF-19Advance is a different plane. The original comment was that the VF-19Advance shouldn't be held directly against YF-19 line art for that reason; the VF-19Advance will have it's own line art more rooted in CGI so some of the sweeping curves of the YF-19 will not exist and this will be appropriate, not something that should be held against it. Certainly if people like the curvy nature of the hand drawn YF-19 that's great but complaints about the VF-19Advance not looking exactly like a YF-19 should be tempered with the understanding that the VF-19Advance will have intentional differences from the YF-19 as part of the VF-19Advance's heritage of being a 3D modeled interpretation.

Funnily enough, this can happen the other way round. For instance, it looks like Yamato's rendition of the VF-19Kai is the new canon for MacrosFB7:

[Lolicon]

Wasn't Kawamori the one who told Yamato that the Kai should have a glossy finish?

Gloss looks fine on a civilian aircraft likely Basara's but that meant all the subsequent VF-19s got glossy finishes. Which I suppose is alright considering how, erm, cartoonish they look.

[no3Ljm]

Eh I own both the YF-19 and VF-19 Advance. Here's a better question: which company will last longer?

Bet you already know the answer to that one, huh.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

"If it looks like a YF-19, walks like a YF-19, quacks like a YF-19..."

I don't personally care that the VF-19Adv differs from the YF-19 and its lineart, but comparisons are going to be made, whether one likes it or not. Long-winded internet rants aren't going to stop that.

Even if Arcadia didn't get Kawamori's stamp of approval... so what? His stamp doesn't magically make a shitty toy into a great one, or lack of a stamp makes a good toy into a crappy one.

"If it looks like a YF-19, walks like a YF-19, quacks like a YF-19..."

I don't personally care that the VF-19Adv differs from the YF-19 and its lineart, but comparisons are going to be made, whether one likes it or not. Long-winded internet rants aren't going to stop that.

Even if Arcadia didn't get Kawamori's stamp of approval... so what? His stamp doesn't magically make a shitty toy into a great one, or lack of a stamp makes a good toy into a crappy one.

+1

[Valkyrie Driver]

Wasn't Kawamori the one who told Yamato that the Kai should have a glossy finish?

Gloss looks fine on a civilian aircraft likely Basara's but that meant all the subsequent VF-19s got glossy finishes. Which I suppose is alright considering how, erm, cartoonish they look.

Well, there are plenty of real fighters that have had glossy finishes...

F-80, F-84, F-86, F-100, F-101, F-102, F-104, F-106, F-4, F-15A/B (for a while), F3D, F4D, F5D, F6D, FH, F2H, F9F, F9, F11F, F3H, F8U, F7U... Almost all the Air Force and Navy Fighters of the First and second generations of jet fighters had gloss finishes.

[1/1 LowViz Lurker]

I have a differing opinion on that.

Maybe it's simply that Arcadia's YF-19 was just way too unjustifiably expensive to procure that perhaps a number of people here went and settled for the Bandai VF-19Advanced just coz it's the only alternative that was significantly cheaper. Not quite sure if most people here would've still gotten the Bandai if it was more expensive than Arcadia's and/ Arcadia's was significantly cheaper than Bandai's.

I'm still surprised at the current polling result that indicates more people think the uber-expensive ankle-issues-laden Arcadia is better overall than the Bandai. Bizarro!

As for respect, most of us know Bandai can make good toys, eg. Soul of Chogokin robots, SHFiguarts, et al.

However, most of us also know and just don't appreciate their various half-ass efforts for their Macross toys specifically. Even this VF-19Advanced had some of that usual shenanigan of half-assing it. Not to mention the preorder-circus that they usually employ with DX-Chogokins Frontier mechas and even their upcoming HM-R's...

The arcadia looks better in robot mode. Not as posable but better. This is the mode Arcadia focused on in the spirit of heroic looking lineart.

The bandai looks good but it seems more for the fighter mode fan. Personally I prefer beefy look. Hopefully yf-21 is revisited again by arcadia but with focus on robot mode. The muscled look has always been more appealing to me. It reminds me of what happened with 1/60 v2 vf-1 yamato. They looked more balanced compared to the 1:48 vf-1 just so the robot mode can look better. That's the direction arcadia went and it works. If they wanted to go back to making it skinny again they could but it would not have the muscular look of the battroid mode in lineart.

YF-19 is meant to be the alpha male of the M+ series with powerful presence next to vf-11 and has a wild appearance. YF-21 is more like a ninja I guess with stealth as the focus. (skinny frame, hidden compartments, shedding it's legs gimmick to make quick escapes etc) One is chaotic and rebellious with beefy shoulders and flashy skirt armor, and the other one is sneaky and careful with hooded helmet to conceal its head. All it needs is clown hands that look robotic to complete the look.

Since the yf-19 series doesn't have gbp armor like vf-11, I prefer it as a beefy framed robot. But I like the idea of the vf-11 being skinny since it can wear full armor.

Edited September 9, 2015 by 1/1 LowViz Lurker

[DONW999]

DOn't know if anyone tried, but if you overlap (with Photoshop) the fighter profile picture of VF-19 and YF-19 with YF19 line art either from the Hasegawa model kit or original art work, VF-19 actually fits better, the curve under cockpit/neck is much in shape. Arcadia's YF-19 has much dynamic and downward/pointy nose, longer too. This makes the curve under the neck more prominent. And the original artwork seems to have a much straighter nose.

[jenius]

You can see what you're alluding to in this pic:

[Sandman]

My original stance was Arcadia's was probably better with the caveat that the bandai's works just as well for the budget conscious. Meaning the compromises in the bandai version could be attributed to it being cheaper (money not quality). But now with hindsight I feel Arcadia made too many questionable decisions with their version and I feel the bandai is the better version ( despite the stupid tabs hanging out with the super pack).

[treatment]

I reckon Bandai just has the better ankle-joints...

[Scyla]

You can see what you're alluding to in this pic:

*snip*

I wonder why Arcadia decided not to extend the lower legs forward a bit covering the fugly knee joints. If they need the room for the joint to work I assume they could have extended the sliding mechanism for the legs so that the lower leg sits further away. That would also make the Battroid-Mode taller which would be a good thing since the YF-19 is too short. It also would've made the legs more line art accurate. In the picture they are much more drawn out forward than on the Arcadia toy. The VF-19ADVANCE does it better.

Thinking about it it would probably have change the proportions in Battroid-Mode or maybe there wasn't enough room in the legs for the mechanism.

Regardless of that I love how aggressive the YF-19 looks in the forward fuselage/nosecone area.

[Chronocidal]

Thinking about it it would probably have change the proportions in Battroid-Mode or maybe there wasn't enough room in the legs for the mechanism.

I'm pretty sure this is exactly why they did it. Those big knee gaps are how the legs collapse into the stocky shape for battroid. Bandai had no qualms about making a skinny battroid, so they focused on a Hasegawa-like fighter mode instead.

While I think Arcadia could have revised that a bit without significantly lengthening the legs, I think the joint design is a leftover from trying to base the new YF-19 off the VF-19 mold and proportions as much as possible. The VF-19 just has a very differently shaped leg in the knee area, and the gap isn't nearly as conspicuous.

The thing I can never figure out... why can't anyone figure out how to paint the black patch behind the cockpit correctly? It's supposed to stay above the canards.. not dip halfway down the side of the fuselage.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Chronocidal

[Valkyrie Driver]

After watching Jenius's review of the Arcadia YF-19, I'm really happy with my decision to get the VF-19Adv. It looks like Arcadia, while some of their stuff is as good as yamato's later offerings, they seem to be making questionable decisions, and making a lot of quality control errors. Which is really bad for an expensive toy. Jenius brought up that there is considerable aggravation when dealing with the wings on the arcadia, and how floppy the wing joint is, and how those often touted external stores, exacerbate the situation. I'm just happy to have a good perfect transformation Y/VF-19 toy.

[Blue Meanie]

I'll throw in my two cents since I finally got them. I like them both, for totally different reasons. I think it comes down to asthetic if you want to pick one. I went arcadia, because man I almost can't believe how much it looks like the line art. The dramatic swoops, nose and long wings in plane mode make it look like an aggressive animation angle shot come to life. The Bandai doesn't match that. That being said, the Advance fits right in with my bandai collection with its thin and sleek CG proportions. The Arcadia fits in with my 21, 19Kai and 19S. They look....a bit out of place mixed together. So, if you are Bandai centric with you collection, get the advance. But if I could only choose one, I'd pick the one straight out of M+ which is Arcadia.

[zzj]

This is an interesting thread, especially for a new collector like me. The situation now (a year on from the last post in his thread) is that the vf-19 advance has skyrocketed in price while the arcadia yf-19 re-release has actually seen a small dip, making it marginally more affordable than the advance. I'm wondering if this makes the yf-19 a better option for a newbie?

[jenius]

The good news is that both toys are pretty cool. 

[spanner]

16 minutes ago, jenius said:

The good news is that both toys are pretty cool. 

I couldn't agree more!

so.. Jenius.. when is your VF-31 review gonna be up?