Solo: A Star Wars Story, in theaters May 25, 2018

[technoblue]

3 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

On the other hand... who really wanted, asked for, or indeed needed a Han Solo movie? I mean, by all indications, they've managed to turn it into something worth seeing and I will definitely see it, but still... my reaction now is the same as it was when the movie was announced: No one was clamoring for a Han Solo origin story.

As this very thread shows, there are fans who were happy to see more of Han Solo on the big screen. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

It's also worth noting that Lucas and Kasdan had been planning a Solo film before Lucas sold everything to Disney. 

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a849876/george-lucas-solo-a-star-wars-story-han-solo-movie-disney-lucasfilm/

The fact that Disney completed the film could be contractual or there could be another reason. Anyway, I'm glad it was completed in any case.

[kajnrig]

2 minutes ago, technoblue said:

As this very thread shows, there are fans who were happy to see more of Han Solo on the big screen. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

It's also worth noting that Lucas and Kasdan had been planning a Solo film before Lucas sold everything to Disney. 

http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/news/a849876/george-lucas-solo-a-star-wars-story-han-solo-movie-disney-lucasfilm/

The fact that Disney completed the film could be contractual or there could be another reason. Anyway, I'm glad it was completed in any case.

Right, I'm not saying that no one LIKED that it was made, just that I never saw anyone WANT it to be made. Get my meaning? I feel like, setting the fans aside, the broader audience is kind of in the same boat - not many people wanted strongly for it to exist, but those who see it are happy that it does.

[Knight26]

My review of Solo, I will spoiler tag the last half:

Overall it was an enjoyable movie that hearkened back to Star Wars' roots.  At it's core it was a space western, heist movie.  It had all the trappings of a western placed in the Star Wars universe, and when you get down to it, isn't that what Star Wars always was; a mashup of Westerns, Buck Rogers and Samurai movies?  Did this movie "play it safe"?  Yes, you bet it did, but it gave fans what they wanted in terms of story, action, and set pieces.  Will it upset some old school fan?  Maybe, the rewrite of Han's back story differs from what was established in the EU, but not greatly so.  Had they given Han more time in Imperial service, maybe another year, then I think it would have felt better.  But the parallels to westerns are all over:  Han is the bitter ex-union soldier wanting to go AWOL.  Chewie is his Indian Warrior he rescues from bondage.  Lando is the rich carpet bagger.  The metaphors are there throughout the story, I mean there is a freaking train robbery and what could best be described as a wagon load of TNT at one point.

Do I think it is a good addition to Star Wars lore?  Yes.  It has some great scenes, especially with Chewie and Lando.

Was it something fans asked for?  Maybe.  Ultimately prequels are hard to write because fans already have their own theories and expectations.

Why do I ultimately think it won't ultimately do as well?  Studio interference and not knowing their audience.  Spoilers ahead.

 

Spoiler

The first thing anyone will tell you when writing a story is to know your audience.  Disney and Lucasfilm has lost touch with what the audience wants, not only the fans, but casuals.  They did so in the following ways.

1:  Casting.  For the most part the casting of Solo was great, Donald Glover made a great Lando, and has some star power to bring in casuals.  Emilia Clarke, is always fantastic, as was Woody Harelson, and Paul Betany chewed the scenery well.   All three added good star power to bring in the Casuals.  Alden Ehrenreich however was miscast as Han.  He's not a bad actor.  But he just doesn't come across as a young Han Solo or young Harrison Ford.  He played the part ok.  Which, as the lead character is not a good thing.  He didn't need to be a big name actor, not when surrounded by others, but he needed to make a convincing young Han, which he was not ultimately.  The problem his casting created was fan backlash, especially when reports about his needing an acting coach came to light.

2:  SJW pandering.  Let me get this out of the way, Lando does not come off as Pan-Sexual, just as an incorrigible flirt.  There was no reason prior to the movie coming out to say that Lando was Pan-sexual. It adds nothing to his character, and feels like pandering.  That act probably turned off some casuals, and will hur the movie in the foreign market.  The jokes about L3-3T made about Lando being in love with her felt out of place.  Kira's response however was right, "how would that work?"  Droids in SW have never been seen to have any sexual proclivity in canon.  Some will call out Lando's reaction to L3's death as proof of his love for her, but I call BS on that.  L3 was his partner, navigator and friend, why would he not get upset by her "Death"?  Look at how people get emotional about their cars getting trashed, a pet, or friend dying, it fits.  It even goes along with the whole Poe/Finn, Chirut/Baze, Legolas/Gimli gay notions.  Why can't guys in movie just be good friends anymore?  Why do people always have to say that they are gay now? 

3:  Failure to understand what the audience wants.  Again, did anyone really want a Han Solo origin story?  Sure, but it didn't need to be told.  Fans are clamoring for other stories set in the Star Wars universe, give us those instead.  Maybe take a fan poll to see what we want.  I'd kill for a good Rogue Squadron movie.  I like the idea of an Obi-Wan movie, but know that it won't be much of a story, especially because with the cameo at the end of this one people will want to see that battle go down.  The problem is, Rebels beat the studio to the punch.  I'd kill for a Thrawn movie, or a canon version of Heir to the Empire, and that ultimately is where this movie messed up.  It could have started putting together a believable cast to play the beloved SW characters in the era between the original and new trilogy.

4:  The Last Jedi Fatigue.  Do I really need to explain this one?  TLJ was probably the movie fan divisive movie ever.  The follow up to it needed to knock it out the park, and ultimately Solo won't be able to do that.  That's unfortunate, but fans started seeing more and more pandering and less of what they wanted to see.  JJA has a hard road ahead of him to redeem the series in EP9, and I for one, don't have that much faith in him.

 

That about covers my thoughts for now.  Overall, I though the movie itself was fine.  Unlike TLJ I did not come out with a bad taste in my mouth and a dozen things to fix in order to make it a good movie.  Also, it is coming on the heels of Infinity War.  That devastated so  many fans.  A bold marketing decision might have been for them to play up the lighter hearted aspects of Solo.  "Depressed so many of your favorite characters died in Infinity War, then come see the origins of your favorite space smugglers in Solo and just enjoy yourself."

Edited May 28, 2018 by Knight26
Fix spoiler tags

[spacemanoeuvres]

Solo: A Star Wars Story debuts at #1 with a worrisome $83.3M domestic on an estimated budget of $250M-$300M.

“[...]this number right here is bad. Really, really, really bad. How bad? Well first off remember Justice League, the megaflop from last year? That film carried a similar budget of around $300M (Solo's estimates are all over the map with Disney reporting $250M while Deadline reports $300M+) and was also a film that was basically shot twice under two different sets of directors. Well that film, for all its woes, opened at $93.8M, a full $10M higher than Solo. Then there's the comparisons to other Disney era Star Wars films. No one expected the spin-offs to do as well as the episodic ones but compared with Rogue One, Solo is just pitiful. Rogue One opened 46% higher than Solo with $155M and that was in December when films are supposed to be flipped from the usual summer release strategy of opening really big to cushion big drops in the coming weekends. Not to mention that Star Wars has always been much more of a domestic pull then other more lucrative international properties like the MCU and the Fast & Furious films, which brings us to the even worse news.[...]”

[technoblue]

35 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Right, I'm not saying that no one LIKED that it was made, just that I never saw anyone WANT it to be made. Get my meaning? I feel like, setting the fans aside, the broader audience is kind of in the same boat - not many people wanted strongly for it to exist, but those who see it are happy that it does.

Interesting. Are you implying that Star Wars (and Solo in particular) might be stagnating due to poor branding/marketing on Disney's behalf? You could be onto something.

[kajnrig]

2 hours ago, technoblue said:

Interesting. Are you implying that Star Wars (and Solo in particular) might be stagnating due to poor branding/marketing on Disney's behalf? You could be onto something.

Solo isn't stagnating due to poor branding/marketing on Disney's behalf. It started out stagnant; to say that something is stagnating now implies that it had any sort of upward momentum before, and Solo... didn't.

Star Wars in general? I think the only poor branding/marketing Disney did with it is, well, announcing these "Star Wars Story" movies and choosing the ones they did. All of them have been and continue to be universally uncompelling. No one needed to know how the Bothans died. No one needed to know how Han met Chewie and Lando. No one needs to know anything about Boba Fett, and the last time they showed us something about him it only made him less cool. No one needs to know anything about Obi-Wan's life on Tatooine, if that indeed is where the new Obi-Wan movie is going.

Or I dunno, maybe I'm reading too much of my own tastes into it. I certainly didn't care about those stories, but maybe audiences in general did.

 

[Roy Focker]

I never saw problems with them casting Alden as Han Solo.   Haven't seen the move yet.  I'm sure there's actors who look and sound more like him.  Alden did have a feature part in Hail Caesar by the Coen Brothers.  The critics love them.  Alden acted in several scenes in that move with some really big name stars.  When casting someone to play Han Solo in film staring Han Solo they don't just use the actor who looks best.  They use someone who has acted with the best.  It's the idea that if you've worked next to somebody good you must be better than those other guys.

 

 

[Lorindor]

I thought he was perfectly good as Han. Likeness, no, but got the quirks and facial movements good enough.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Lorindor

[hutch]

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

No one needed to know how the Bothans died

To be fair we haven’t seen a movie about this yet. 

[renegadeleader1]

1 hour ago, Roy Focker said:

I never saw problems with them casting Alden as Han Solo.   Haven't seen the move yet.  I'm sure there's actors who look and sound more like him.  Alden did have a feature part in Hail Caesar by the Coen Brothers.  The critics love them.  Alden acted in several scenes in that move with some really big name stars.  When casting someone to play Han Solo in film staring Han Solo they don't just use the actor who looks best.  They use someone who has acted with the best.  It's the idea that if you've worked next to somebody good you must be better than those other guys.

 

 

Hail Caeser sucked and whoever your big co-stars are means jack all if the movie is a turkey.

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Roy Focker said:

I never saw problems with them casting Alden as Han Solo.

IIRC, there were rumors that he was a bad actor, to the point that they had to bring in an acting coach to help him rehearse his scenes. I wouldn't know, I still haven't seen it yet so I can't judge, but from the trailers he looked to do a totally fine job.

[Dynaman]

Han - yes he didn't really look like him or sound like him.

Lando - HE looked and sounded just like I would expect from a young Lando.

The one that does not get enough attention.

Chewie - Even though the actor is shorter than Peter Mayhew (and it shows in the MF cockpit scenes) he was spot on.  I forgot it was not Peter Mayhew playing him.

[technoblue]

Like @Keith wrote, I was very comfortable with the actors too. Alden was able to pull off Han very well IMO, and I thought he got all of Solo's mannerisms down.

I had no idea it wasn't Peter Mayhew in the Chewbacca costume. That actor was spot on. New Han and new Chewy played well off each other.

1 hour ago, kajnrig said:

Solo isn't stagnating due to poor branding/marketing on Disney's behalf. It started out stagnant; to say that something is stagnating now implies that it had any sort of upward momentum before, and Solo... didn't.

I guess I don't get your point. 

Why would you say that Star Wars is a stagnant franchise? The prequels were released, and two popular similarly-animated TV series have been developed and completed. Lucasfilm was sold, which I admit is a debatable point, but Disney is now releasing multiple movies per the Marvel paradigm which will soon result in another complete movie trilogy, a rumored new trilogy, and additional side-stories. I think Star Wars is the healthiest its ever been—and that isn't even considering the toy/model/gaming market.

I think the responsibility of who needed/wanted these stories lies with the creators first. In other words, Lucas when he had the rights and now Disney. Fans are always clamoring for their favorite thing to be shown on the big screen. Maybe not Han... maybe someone or something else... or maybe more of Han was exactly what fans wanted, and Disney decided to use this story to ground the new mythology of some larger tale? Who knows? Not sure if we'll ever get to see that data either. But Disney owns the franchise, so they should have the metrics on hand to determine what will do well.

Does that mean each movie will be a success? No. I can see how Star Wars is having growing pains, but I still have a positive feeling for what lies ahead.

[sh9000]

My wife and I watched it and we found it decent with some parts entertaining but overall only ok.

[Mommar]

6 hours ago, kajnrig said:

No one needed to know how the Bothans died. 

 

That was the second Death Star.

[azrael]

So it sounds like this movie was OK. 

Why it bombed? Who knows. But I’ll just stick with my answer: I’m just not interested in seeing Han’s origin story. I’m not interested in seeing Boba Fett’s rise to bounty hunter-glory. Obi-wan? A little, but that bit in Rebels felt good enough. Maybe that made Rogue One a bit more appealing. New characters with the old characters sprinkled in at small doses. 

[tekering]

9 hours ago, kajnrig said:

No one needed to know how the Bothans died.

[Thom]

Maybe just too much negative press and troubles behind the camera. Once you start hearing that, excitement starts to decline because of the fear that it will translate to the screen. I don't know why the original directors were fired, but Howard was a real good choice to bring it together and I enjoyed it. Alden was good as a young Han on his way to becoming the man we first saw in ANH, Lando was great and Chew was awesome!

Spoiler

I just wish I knew what became of Kira after she left them behind? That scene with Darth Maul was a surprise and seems like a hint for something greater to happen, but then the movie ended.  Maybe she'll turn up in the Boba Fett movie..?

Loved seeing the new Falcon and really wish it could have stayed that way. But it seems the luck of the Falcon tends towards the dirtier side and she certainly looked like a right mess after the Kessel Run! Having L3 become part of its computers was a nice touch, but now I want the Falcon to have always had that quarky attitude and the ability to talk!

Best scene for Han was at the end when facing off with Tobias. Lesson learned - shoot first!

 

[Kelsain]

I want to see this in the theater, but I don't feel the sense of urgency this time around. I don't know if it's because of my initial skepticism, or if it's just because Star Wars isn't the rare event that it used to be. I'm hopeful that I'll still enjoy the movie, but it's probably going to be next week before I actually get to see it. 

This is making some of my standard internet browsing difficult; i.e., not reading anything above the previous post!

Edited May 29, 2018 by Kelsain

[jvmacross]

Went in with zero expectations.....was thoroughly entertained for 2+ hours......hope Disney goes forward with the obvious sequel, at least.....

A few things though....perhaps answered in the book or comic version.....

Spoiler

So Han enlisted as a pilot when he hastily joined the Empire.....but then we see him 3 years later fighting to "liberate" some anti-imperial planet....the gritty SW everyone wanted! .....so what happened?  Did he get to train as a pilot?  Were scenes cut out?  Basically, the way the movie was edited, all Han knew about "piloting" was from "driving" landspeeders?  Maybe I missed some dialogue?  Maybe Han is naturally gifted at piloting like Rey was at Jedi-ing?

Also, I guess Han gets way more jaded and self-centered as his "outlaw" career progresses......because  as of this chapter, he basically kickstarted the rebellion by giving up his loot.........looking forward to seeing more of the scum and villiany lurking in shadows of the Empire!

 

 

[technoblue]

1 hour ago, jvmacross said:

Went in with zero expectations.....was thoroughly entertained for 2+ hours......hope Disney goes forward with the obvious sequel, at least.....

A few things though....perhaps answered in the book or comic version.....

  Reveal hidden contents

So Han enlisted as a pilot when he hastily joined the Empire.....but then we see him 3 years later fighting to "liberate" some anti-imperial planet....the gritty SW everyone wanted! .....so what happened?  Did he get to train as a pilot?  Were scenes cut out?  Basically, the way the movie was edited, all Han knew about "piloting" was from "driving" landspeeders?  Maybe I missed some dialogue?  Maybe Han is naturally gifted at piloting like Rey was at Jedi-ing?

Also, I guess Han gets way more jaded and self-centered as his "outlaw" career progresses......because  as of this chapter, he basically kickstarted the rebellion by giving up his loot.........looking forward to seeing more of the scum and villiany lurking in shadows of the Empire!

 

 

There was a line of dialogue...spoilers ahead for those who haven't seen the movie...

When Tobias Beckett and Han first meet, and Han is pressing Beckett to join his team and get off planet. Han mentions how he was in the Imperial Navy, but was eventually kicked out and demoted because he was insubordinate and refused to follow the order of command. This, of course, ends up becoming a sticking point between the two of them as well. 

 

[spacemanoeuvres]

 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by spacemanoeuvres

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, technoblue said:

There was a line of dialogue...spoilers ahead for those who haven't seen the movie...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

When Tobias Beckett and Han first meet, and Han is pressing Beckett to join his team and get off planet. Han mentions how he was in the Imperial Navy, but was eventually kicked out and demoted because he was insubordinate and refused to follow the order of command. This, of course, ends up becoming a sticking point between the two of them as well. 

 

 

Thanks...I recall the scene....one of my favorites...but guess I was too busy watching the carnage in the background and missed that tidbit! 

Good thing I didn't miss the explanation given to Han as to why they were on that planet.....exactly what I hoped Empire building would be like pre-Death Star days!

Would be nice if there actually are some scenes cut out with Han in training or on a mission inside a tie-fighter....maybe when it makes it to the BD release....

[Mommar]

Well they refilmed 70% of the thing, there’s lots removed.

[kajnrig]

18 hours ago, technoblue said:

I guess I don't get your point. 

Bah, maybe it IS just me, then. I guess, boiling it down, I have this sense that a lot of people share these sentiments, me included:

4 hours ago, Kelsain said:

I want to see this in the theater, but I don't feel the sense of urgency this time around.

11 hours ago, azrael said:

I’m just not interested in seeing Han’s origin story. I’m not interested in seeing Boba Fett’s rise to bounty hunter-glory. Obi-wan? A little, but that bit in Rebels felt good enough. Maybe that made Rogue One a bit more appealing. New characters with the old characters sprinkled in at small doses. 

 

18 hours ago, technoblue said:

Why would you say that Star Wars is a stagnant franchise? The prequels were released, and two popular similarly-animated TV series have been developed and completed. Lucasfilm was sold, which I admit is a debatable point, but Disney is now releasing multiple movies per the Marvel paradigm which will soon result in another complete movie trilogy, a rumored new trilogy, and additional side-stories. I think Star Wars is the healthiest its ever been—and that isn't even considering the toy/model/gaming market.

I didn't say Star Wars is a stagnant franchise. I said that Solo started out stagnant and although they did an apparently admirable job in the making of it, it still ended stagnant. The only real mistake the franchise as a whole has made has been to make those side story movies.

As for health... I dunno. Expanding the franchise as much as Disney have at the pace that they have does carry some dangers. I don't think Star Wars lends itself to the Marvel paradigm as well as... well, as Marvel does. Marvel has guns and swords and lasers and godly lightning and exotic shields and mystical energy all working with and against each other. Star Wars has blasters and lightsabers.

18 hours ago, technoblue said:

I can see how Star Wars is having growing pains, but I still have a positive feeling for what lies ahead.

I do, too, but not for the side films.

14 hours ago, Mommar said:

That was the second Death Star.

Whoops, my bad. Still, the point stands.

And did they really reshoot that much of it? Yikes.

[jvmacross]

14 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

Marvel has guns and swords and lasers and godly lightning and exotic shields and mystical energy all working with and against each other.

Star Wars has blasters and lightsabers.

Guns=Blasters

Swords = Lightsabers

Lasers = well, lasers are lasers in both I suppose

Godly lightning = Force lightning

Mystical energy = The Force

 

Maybe Disney overestimated the amount of movie-going $$$upport for both Star Wars and Marvel....not to mention all of their other brands.....maybe all this talk of Star Wars fatigue is true?  Doesn't seem to be the case with the Marvel franchise yet.

[Focslain]

Saw it over the weekend. It wasn't bad, but honestly it was as I figured, a straight to video release. I'm not interested in origin stories of the main SW cast, the original trilogy did that already anyway.

Honestly unless they make a X-Wing/Rogue Squadron film (or series) I'm out after ep IX and that is just to finish the Skywalker saga.

[Negotiator]

there's no star wars fatigue. the other half of the fandom decided to make a stand

[mechaninac]

^This!  It's not any of the pre-packaged exculpatory and deflecting excuses that shill critics and writers come up with to explain why Solo bombed.  The fact of the matter is that TLJ left an indelibly bad taste in the palate of many, if not most, Star Wars fans; and it wasn't even because the movie was excruciatingly and purposefully bad and, in the opinion of many, an insult to established characters, lacking in its new ones, and an overall betrayal of fan expectations of what a Star Wars story should be, even of the preceding TFA (a matter of personal opinion, to be sure)... It was Disney's/Lucasfilms' response to fan's criticism of what was done.  The dismissive, flippant, denigrating, tone-deaf way that the people in charge of the franchise treated their customers, the fans, is what caused Solo to fail, and it's what may cause Ep. IX to bomb too.  Most people who are told that their dislike for a product is indicative that there is something wrong with them and that they are too recalcitrant and stupid to understand the "brilliance" of the creative vision of the direction the company is taking the property... it's theirs to ruin, and ruin it they will if they persist in their hubris and ignoring one of the pillars of a successful business:  The customer is always right, listen to them and treat them with respect; and above all, give them what they want.

[captain america]

30 minutes ago, Negotiator said:

there's no star wars fatigue. the other half of the fandom decided to make a stand

And a rather successful one at that.

[kajnrig]

2 hours ago, jvmacross said:

Guns=Blasters

Swords = Lightsabers

Lasers = well, lasers are lasers in both I suppose

Godly lightning = Force lightning

Mystical energy = The Force

 

You know what I'd like to see? A lightsaber deflecting (or being unable to deflect) a TIE Fighter blast. Could Force Lightning blow up a blaster's internal... energy... source... thing? Why doesn't a Jedi ever just use the Force to turn on their opponent's lightsaber while it's still on their belt?

Meanwhile, you have a vibranium shield deflecting repulsor beams, sentient capes fighting weaponized alternate dimensions, a glove dropping a moon on someone...

That's not a great way to illustrate my point, but said point is just that Marvel has an eclectic universe from which all these different movies can be made. Star Wars doesn't really have that. Or it does, but not while it remains tethered to the same story it's been telling for the past 40 years: the epic struggle between the Rebels and the Empire. KotOR would have been a great candidate for a Star Wars movie. But as it is, Star Wars right now is one type of story set in one type of world, and that doesn't translate well into multiple movies in rapid succession.

1 hour ago, Negotiator said:

there's no star wars fatigue. the other half of the fandom decided to make a stand

1 hour ago, captain america said:

And a rather successful one at that.

1 hour ago, mechaninac said:

^This!

"The fandom decided to make a stand." Getting a bit dramatic there, no?

What I don't get is why you've decided to reduce it down to a stupidly oversimplified "Us vs. them" shtick. "They" liked TLJ so they went to see Solo. "We" didn't like TLJ so we "made a stand." C'mon. That's silly. You're being silly.

I loved TLJ, and I had/have no desire to see Solo. Two others on this very page have said that they don't have that much interest in a solo Solo film. I get that The Last Jedi hurt your feelings, maybe even broke your heart a little, and despite my teasing I mean that legitimately, but c'mon. That's silly. You're being silly.

1 hour ago, mechaninac said:

one of the pillars of a successful business:  The customer is always right, listen to them and treat them with respect; and above all, give them what they want.

"I would like a hamburger."

"But sir, this is a hardware store--"

"The customer is always right. Listen to them and treat them with respect, and above all, give them what they want."

[Dynaman]

2 hours ago, mechaninac said:

^This!  It's not any of the pre-packaged exculpatory and deflecting excuses that shill critics and writers come up with to explain why Solo bombed.  The fact of the matter is that TLJ left an indelibly bad taste in the palate of many, if not most, Star Wars fans; and it wasn't even because the movie was excruciatingly and purposefully bad and, in the opinion of many, an insult to established characters, lacking in its new ones, and an overall betrayal of fan expectations of what a Star Wars story should be, even of the preceding TFA (a matter of personal opinion, to be sure)... It was Disney's/Lucasfilms' response to fan's criticism of what was done.  The dismissive, flippant, denigrating, tone-deaf way that the people in charge of the franchise treated their customers, the fans, is what caused Solo to fail, and it's what may cause Ep. IX to bomb too.  Most people who are told that their dislike for a product is indicative that there is something wrong with them and that they are too recalcitrant and stupid to understand the "brilliance" of the creative vision of the direction the company is taking the property... it's theirs to ruin, and ruin it they will if they persist in their hubris and ignoring one of the pillars of a successful business:  The customer is always right, listen to them and treat them with respect; and above all, give them what they want.

When a loud portion of that dislike boiled down to calling TLJ a SJW movie, then such people need to hear that they have something wrong with them.  

[technoblue]

4 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I didn't say Star Wars is a stagnant franchise. I said that Solo started out stagnant and although they did an apparently admirable job in the making of it, it still ended stagnant. The only real mistake the franchise as a whole has made has been to make those side story movies.

As for health... I dunno. Expanding the franchise as much as Disney have at the pace that they have does carry some dangers. I don't think Star Wars lends itself to the Marvel paradigm as well as... well, as Marvel does. Marvel has guns and swords and lasers and godly lightning and exotic shields and mystical energy all working with and against each other. Star Wars has blasters and lightsabers.

 I missed that. I thought you were giving a macro-level criticism. Apologies for confusing things.

Literally, it probably won't work like Marvel, but I can see Star Wars coming to its own. There are elements in the older comics (I know the don't count anymore) where force powers are far more influential/powerful than they were in the movies (even the prequels with Yoda bouncing around all over). It would be pretty cool to see force powers used without restraint. I think we saw some of this in TLJ. It came with a cost, though. It would be interesting to see a Dark Jedi use force powers similarly.

Rebels and Clone Wars (the animated series) did a good job fleshing out light side and even neutral force users. 

I would love to see more development of the dark side mythos. And I don't mean that in a creepy way. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by technoblue

[mechaninac]

11 minutes ago, Dynaman said:

When a loud portion of that dislike boiled down to calling TLJ a SJW movie, then such people need to hear that they have something wrong with them.  

That, right there, is part of the very attitude I was trying to articulate.  Thank you for making my point.

[Hikuro]

Saw it Thursday night going in all “eh” avoiding trailers, tv spots and reviews of any variety and honestly I enjoyed it way more than I did TLJ. Wasn’t amazing, but god it flowed and worked better. Some fans are just asses.