Game of Thrones Theory Discussion. Books. Show. Spoilers.

[Marzan]

Stunned. Wrecked. Crying. That was episode 5 for me. I'm going to put this in spoiler tags because we appear to be the only active GoT thread on this forum, and book readers are in the same boat with the show watchers now. 24 hour spoiler tags is probably not a bad idea for the benefit of both camps.

What can be said about Hodor? Truly the most heartbreaking thing I've seen on this show, and probably the most gut-wrenching thing I've ever seen on TV ever. You hope he somehow gets away, but you know he doesn't (and the scene wouldn't mean as much if he did). I flat out cried.!

Same thing happened to me.

Hodors death has to be the most impactful thing I've seen on this show. I was in tears (and I'm normally not much of a crier). What a scene. So much more else happened in this chapter happened, but Hodor's death just blows everything out of mind.

Pardon my stupidity, but am I getting this right? Did Bran basically reach across time and was to blame for Hodor's mental condition all those years by causing that seizure with the trauma of his death?

And if so, do you think this has been George Martin's idea all along?

[Dobber]

Same thing happened to me.

Hodors death has to be the most impactful thing I've seen on this show. I was in tears (and I'm normally not much of a crier). What a scene. So much more else happened in this chapter happened, but Hodor's death just blows everything out of mind.

Pardon my stupidity, but am I getting this right? Did Bran basically reach across time and was to blame for Hodor's mental condition all those years by causing that seizure with the trauma of his death?

And if so, do you think this has been George Martin's idea all along?

Apparently it it was.

just one of the saddest and most affecting things, executive producer D.B. Weiss told IGN, recounting the moment that he learned about the origins of Hodors name from Martin. While its possible that the author will have a change of heart and perhaps allow Hodor to live in the books, the idea for that scene was one of the guiding points that Martin gave to Game of Thrones showrunners to help them plan out future seasons. Executive producer David Benioff recalls:

We had this meeting with George Martin where were trying to get as much information as possible out of him, and probably the most shocking revelation he had for us was when he told us the origin of Hodor and how that name came about. I just remember Dan and I looking at each other when he said that and just being like, Holy st.'

http://screenrant.com/games-thrones-hold-door-hodor/

Chris

Edited May 23, 2016 by Dobber

[Marzan]

Apparently it it was.

just one of the saddest and most affecting things, executive producer D.B. Weiss told IGN, recounting the moment that he learned about the origins of Hodors name from Martin. While its possible that the author will have a change of heart and perhaps allow Hodor to live in the books, the idea for that scene was one of the guiding points that Martin gave to Game of Thrones showrunners to help them plan out future seasons. Executive producer David Benioff recalls:

We had this meeting with George Martin where were trying to get as much information as possible out of him, and probably the most shocking revelation he had for us was when he told us the origin of Hodor and how that name came about. I just remember Dan and I looking at each other when he said that and just being like, Holy st.'

http://screenrant.com/games-thrones-hold-door-hodor/

Chris

Thanks.

[Dobber]

I can't remember, does Bran know that Rob and his mother are dead?

Chris

[Duke Togo]

I can't remember, does Bran know that Rob and his mother are dead?

Chris

Yeah

[Warmaker]

Not even really magical in the book, though. I'm a bit rusty here, but can someone else confirm my memory that Mel wasn't all that sold on Stannis behind Azor Ahai, and she was helping him along with her bag of tricks?

Melisandre truly believed Stannis "was it" in the books, Azhor Ahai reborn, all that. She did whatever it took to support him. The "Lightbringer" sword was a gimmick, she knew it, probably her idea, and of course, Stannis and Ser Davos knew it.

Some quick thoughts on the episode.

Another, "Let's kill off a bunch of dudes" episode.

I did like Daenerys' and Ser Jorah Mormont's moment.

Not quite sure what direction Sansa is going because she's not quite trustful of even Jon Snow (Brienne called her out on this in a private conversation when she caught her lie to Jon), even disrespected him in front of others because she had the Stark name, Jon didn't. Jon caught that little insult but didn't say anything.

Another Stark Direwolf killed off with zero fanfare. Summer, of all things, the one with the most coverage in the books and show.

So GoT is doing time travel now that could affect the past to influence the future?

Hodor's end was so sad, a big impact.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Warmaker

[Duke Togo]

War, what we're seeing with Sansa is the lingering damage done to her by Littlefinger. It's still a chink in her armor. I suspect at some point this will come back to bite her.

[Tober]

Stannis' sword had some magic-like attribute in the books. It shone when he met Renley and who said he wanted the sword when Stannis was dead. It shone blindingly brightly at the wall when he drew it there - I think it was the Rattleshirt/Mance execution.

I suspect Samwell Tarley would have given the bad news to Bran when they met.

Not thrilled about the Hodor time-travel thing either.

The only reason the Greyjoys aren't the lamest house in Westeros is the Martells. Every time I see Yara Greyjoy I'm reminded of:

[Duke Togo]

Stannis' sword had some magic-like attribute.

Not thrilled about the Hodor time-travel thing either.

The only reason the Greyjoys aren't the lamest house in Westeros is the Martells.

Any magic Stannis's sword had is the work of Mel. The Hodor stuff is straight from GRRM. Personally, I think the implications are pretty awesome. And the Martells are fantastic in the books.

[Marzan]

The only reason the Greyjoys aren't the lamest house in Westeros is the Martells. Every time I see Yara Greyjoy I'm reminded of:

You think so? I actually appreciate the grim look of Yara (and basically every inhabitant of those islands). It feels rather authentic and a great counterweight to the look and feel of female characters in other parts of Westeros.

Speaking of the Greyjoy's, while I knew that they didn't bring Pilou Asbæk in just to play a tiny role in proceedings, I didn't expect Euron to have such an ambitious plan. Transporting Daenery's army and aiding in taking Westeros is quite the plan. I did laugh out loud at the prospect of him proposing to the Khaleesi though. That will end well.

[Duke Togo]

You think so? I actually appreciate the grim look of Yara (and basically every inhabitant of those islands). It feels rather authentic and a great counterweight to the look and feel of female characters in other parts of Westeros.

Speaking of the Greyjoy's, while I knew that they didn't bring Pilou Asbæk in just to play a tiny role in proceedings, I didn't expect Euron to have such an ambitious plan. Transporting Daenery's army and aiding in taking Westeros is quite the plan. I did laugh out loud at the prospect of him proposing to the Khaleesi though. That will end well.

I'm with you on Yara.

[Tober]

Any magic Stannis's sword had is the work of Mel.

So the deaths of Joffrey, Robb and Balon were just the work of Mel too? And spawning the demon to kill Renley..? How strong her connection to The God of Light is is ambiguous.

The God of Light sure is hedging his bets as far as who the Promised Prince is.

The Hodor stuff is straight from GRRM. Personally, I think the implications are pretty awesome.

Yeah, I saw that interview with the show-runner too. I still don't like it though.

And the Martells are fantastic in the books.

How are they fantastic? Almost everything they do falls to bits.

They're just nowhere near as inept as they are in the show.

You think so? I actually appreciate the grim look of Yara (and basically every inhabitant of those islands). It feels rather authentic and a great counterweight to the look and feel of female characters in other parts of Westeros.

Speaking of the Greyjoy's, while I knew that they didn't bring Pilou Asbæk in just to play a tiny role in proceedings, I didn't expect Euron to have such an ambitious plan. Transporting Daenery's army and aiding in taking Westeros is quite the plan. I did laugh out loud at the prospect of him proposing to the Khaleesi though. That will end well.

If you are a book reader then I think you'd have had different expectations. I quite liked her at first though. And I totally appreciate that the Iron Born have a gruffer look. Euron has an eye-patch in the books and a horn to control dragons... So again, like the Martells, the characters have been simplified. The priest who conducts the drowning of Euron is the third brother of Balon and Euron. Edit: And there's also the brother Victarion.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Tober

[Duke Togo]

So the deaths of Joffrey, Robb and Balon were just the work of Mel too? And spawning the demon to kill Renley..? How strong her connection to The God of Light is is ambiguous.

The God of Light sure is hedging his bets as far as who the Promised Prince is.

Your reading of Stannis and Mel in the book is very strange. It's pretty clear that Mel and her magic was behind all of it. Stannis was chosen by no one but Mel.

As far as Azor Ahai goes, I'm beginning to think he is known by so many names across various cultures because he is not just one person. More of a gathering of heroes instead of just one hero.

[Tober]

Your reading of Stannis and Mel in the book is very strange. It's pretty clear that Mel and her magic was behind all of it. Stannis was chosen by no one but Mel.

As far as Azor Ahai goes, I'm beginning to think he is known by so many names across various cultures because he is not just one person. More of a gathering of heroes instead of just one hero.

Mel gets her magic from R'hllor as she gets her visions in the flames through him. It is up to her how to interpret and use them. This is the same for the other Red Priests as well as they back other possible 'princes'.

[Duke Togo]

Mel gets her magic from R'hllor as she gets her visions in the flames through him. It is up to her how to interpret and use them. This is the same for the other Red Priests as well as they back other possible 'princes'.

I'm not certain there are any gods. Is what we've seen of R'hllor and the Old Gods the work of gods, or simply a certain type of natural magic being tapped into? Do we even want to know? Is it not more interesting (and more realistic) to not know for sure?

Edited May 24, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Tober]

I'm not certain there are any gods. Is what we've seen of R'hllor and the Old Gods the work of gods, or simply a certain type of natural magic being tapped into? Do we even want to know? Is it not more interesting (and more realistic) to not know for sure?

Oh, I don't expect any actual answer as far as the magic stuff in GoT goes. But I sorta think the same thing of Jon's parents - wouldn't it be best to leave it unsaid,,,

[Duke Togo]

Oh, I don't expect any actual answer as far as the magic stuff in GoT goes. But I sorta think the same thing of Jon's parents - wouldn't it be best to leave it unsaid,,,

Not if he's meant to rule. Besides, all of the build up would have been for nothing if we never find out for sure. This is, of course, ignoring that GRRM said Jon would learn his true parentage before it's all said and done.

I think the real question is what is going to happen once he knows? This could play out so many ways. Jon rules the Iron Throne. Jon is Luke to Dany's Leia, and is the champion while she is the ruler. Jon rules Westeros and Dany rules Essos, and their children rule the known world (which fits her prophecy). Jon learns his parentage, says nothing, and sacrifices himself to win the War for the Dawn (or, even going a step farther, Jon's sacrifice is becoming the Night's King in order to hold back the hordes of the undead).

Edited May 24, 2016 by Duke Togo

[peter]

[Duke Togo]

HAHA

[Marzan]

I wonder in how many takes they did that shot. Must have burst out laughing more than once

[Dobber]

That is priceless! Lol!

Chris

[Duke Togo]

I wonder in how many takes they did that shot. Must have burst out laughing more than once

From what I've been reading it was a constant laugh fest; and there are a few cut scenes showcasing more of their... relationship

[Dobber]

I got a kick out of Brianne, when talking with Sansa about the trustworthiness of the people around them, when she specifically had a problem with...the one with the beard.

I don't normally ship people.....but I totally ship those 2. Lol

Also, I wonder what Brianne will think of Tormond, after she see's him fight?

Chris

Edited May 24, 2016 by Dobber

[Duke Togo]

I got a kick out of Brianne, when talking with Sansa about the trustworthiness of the people around them, when she specifically had a problem with...the one with the beard.

I don't normally ship people.....but I totally ship those 2. Lol

Also, I wonder what Brianne will think of Tormond, after she see's him fight?

Chris

Brienne is heading south, so she almost certainly won't be around for that.

[Dobber]

Not even for the Battle of the Bastards?

Chris

[Duke Togo]

Not even for the Battle of the Bastards?

Chris

Doesn't look like it, no

[Warmaker]

Wildling tradition for a man to get his wife is to sort of go over and "kidnap" her. I would love to see Tormund "Husband to Bears" Giantsbane try that with Brienne.

[Dobber]

I think Tormund would like even more if Brieanne kicked the crap out of him. Lol!

Chris

Edited May 25, 2016 by Dobber

[Roy Focker]

Prediction: Once Captain Phasma softens up to Ginger Viking (I don't know anyone's names) he'll get killed off.

[Duke Togo]

So, who do you think is going to save Bran and Meera: Coldhands, Benjen, or "Benhands"?

[renegadeleader1]

So, who do you think is going to save Bran and Meera: Coldhands, Benjen, or "Benhands"?

You talk like you expect them to even be rescued at all, you should know better by now. they're going to end up popsicles to be later zombiefied by the white walkers.

[Dynaman]

You talk like you expect them to even be rescued at all, you should know better by now. they're going to end up popsicles to be later zombiefied by the white walkers.

On another site someone mentioned a shot of Bran riding on a horse that has not been seen yet...

[Dobber]

So, who do you think is going to save Bran and Meera: Coldhands, Benjen, or "Benhands"?

Benhands.

I read a theory somewhere that Benjen was also marked and that is why he has not returned to the wall because it would allow the Whitewalkers through.

Chris

[Duke Togo]

I've always wondered if Benjen and his rangers haven't been shadowing the Others this entire time, tracking their movements and watching them. As for the show I could see them combining these characters, but I honestly don't know. I just know we're getting someone to save them based upon the season 6 trailers.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Duke Togo]

Reminder: GoT is not taking Memorial Day weekend off this year. They're playing the season straight through this year--no breaks.