Game of Thrones Theory Discussion. Books. Show. Spoilers.

[505thAirborne]

Reminder: We do have a just-the-TV-show thread.

Thanks azrael, I completely forgot about that thread.

[Dobber]

An excellent season opener for Game of Thrones. Some of that I absolutely did not see coming. I will give a longer reaction tomorrow. But, wow!

Funny, I was actually a little disappointed by it. It definitely wasn't bad but......

I fully admit, it may just be because I'm use to knowing what is more or less going to happen and this is the first time I have no clue. The whole episode, though, I just wanted them to get to it because I want my answers!

Chris

[Chewie]

She put her necklace on the wireless charging base to make sure it's at full power to bring Jon back.

=D

[Kanedas Bike]

She put her necklace on the wireless charging base to make sure it's at full power to bring Jon back.

=D

Ha!

Sure am glad that Jon Snow didn't take her up on her offer last season.

I guess he knows/knew something after all.

-b.

[Chewie]

I guess he knows/knew something after all.

Yeah, what 8 inches of cold steel feels like.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Chewie

[Marzan]

It was nice being reintroduced to everyone like this. Loved everything except Dorne (which feels a bit pointless to me at this point but that may very well change sooner rather than later). Best bit was Sansa finally hooking up with Brienne. Finally!

[Duke Togo]

Reminder: We do have a just-the-TV-show thread.

True, but outside of some Ironborn plot stuff we're all on the same page now. I was shocked more than once last night. Outside of some guesswork based on the season 6 trailers this season is new to everyone.

So, some more thoughts from the first episode of season 6:

Assuming you watched the trailers, we all know what's going to happen at Castle Black: Wun Wun is going to smash down the gates and the Wildlings are going to rush in and save Davos and company. And we also know that Jon is going to be up and fighting later this season, as Melisandre saw it in the flames. Speaking of Melisandre, we always knew there was more to her, but WOW, I was not expecting that. Benioff and Weiss are saying she is several hundred years old, and I believe Carice van Houten has stated she is around 400 years old. She's been waiting for this war and for Jon for a very long time. The question is how she resurrects him. What is required? Her own life, perhaps?

In other Stark news, Sansa getting saved by Brienne was just fantastic. Perhaps not the most well-shot fight scene they've done, but it was such a rush to see her charging in to save her. And Pod getting a kill! Awesome! So, now that Brienne and Pod are sworn to her, we can guess why Brienne was standing in front of Tully banners in one of the trailers: Sansa will likely send her to the Riverlands to meet with the Blackfish and rally what forces they can. Also, if you watched the next episode teaser, you see Brienne telling Sansa about Ayra! The Starks are no longer working in the blind... well, except for Arya, lol.

Speaking of the Starks and the next episode teaser, we got a shot of Bran coming out of warging. I wonder if perhaps he was not in Ghost this first episode?

Further south, we have Jaime coming home, and man, I really do not like what the show has done with him the past season or two. While I am not sure I'd call his story arc in the books "redemptive," he certainly has rediscovered what it means to be a knight and honorable, and how much that means to him. He pretty blatantly rejects Cersei and her machinations that have led to the destruction of their family. But show Jamie, no no, he's all about reuniting with Cersei and striking out against everyone who has wronged them. No one else matters! Blargh. This isn't even a condensing of the book plot; they have just changed his character fairly significantly.

And all the way south, well, I did not see Prince Doran getting murdered coming. Things were certainly tumultuous in Dorne in the books, but I feel Doran gets robbed in the show pretty badly. He's the driving force behind Dorne revolting against the Iron Throne and helping restore the Targaryens to the throne. That said, it was great to be surprised here, and I hope the Dorne storyline can be redeemed in season 6 after how poorly they treated it in season 5.

One last thought, and this one is for Dany: book readers know what happens to a Khal's widow, and I had to laugh out loud when her confidence and smugness completely melt away after she learns she's essentially being sent to a Dothraki convent. I not one of those who thinks she'll be getting a khalasar back, so the mystery here to me is how she makes her escape.

She put her necklace on the wireless charging base to make sure it's at full power to bring Jon back.

=D

I suspect the necklace isn't the source of her power, but the device through which she disguises her age.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Dynaman]

Cersei gets a healthy dose of humanity in the show, which is a good thing.

As for Brienne saving Sansa - besides the clumsy execution of the fight scene it also bugs me as being pretty standard heroic fare - which the show/books avoided for the most part.

As for Snow, he will be coming back - but as what is the real question. Pretty nice for the actor in this first episode, playing a corpse is pretty easy if they don't focus on your character for too long (holding your breath being the only real challenge)

[Duke Togo]

Cersei gets a healthy dose of humanity in the show, which is a good thing.

As for Brienne saving Sansa - besides the clumsy execution of the fight scene it also bugs me as being pretty standard heroic fare - which the show/books avoided for the most part.

As for Snow, he will be coming back - but as what is the real question. Pretty nice for the actor in this first episode, playing a corpse is pretty easy if they don't focus on your character for too long (holding your breath being the only real challenge)

It won't be as an Other/White Walker

[Dynaman]

It won't be as an Other/White Walker

Maybe, maybe not. Might not actually be alive either.

[Duke Togo]

Maybe, maybe not. Might not actually be alive either.

Totes is.

So, I had something pointed out to me about the Dorne segment that I totally missed. Blame this on me not rewatching the end of last season before the new one started. How the hell did the Sand Snakes get to Trystane, who went Kingslanding with Jaime and Bronn? And why did Jaime do nothing to him after his daughter died? He's not even under guard or anything. Hell, he'd have made a great hostage had they turned around after Myrcella died. But no, he's just chilling on the boat painting eye stones for her funeral.

I had assumed that what we saw go down with Dorne in this past episode was them wiping the slate clean so they could start fresh with the Martell's, but it's just as bad and nonsensical as it was last season.

[Dobber]

Totes is.

So, I had something pointed out to me about the Dorne segment that I totally missed. Blame this on me not rewatching the end of last season before the new one started. How the hell did the Sand Snakes get to Trystane, who went Kingslanding with Jaime and Bronn? And why did Jaime do nothing to him after his daughter died? He's not even under guard or anything. Hell, he'd have made a great hostage had they turned around after Myrcella died. But no, he's just chilling on the boat painting eye stones for her funeral.

I had assumed that what we saw go down with Dorne in this past episode was them wiping the slate clean so they could start fresh with the Martell's, but it's just as bad and nonsensical as it was last season.

I noticed that too. Not really digging the Dorne storyline at all. I can't remember her name...the Main Dornish antagonist...but her motivations are just nuts...admittedly maybe that's the point but...

Oberyns Sister is raped and both she and her child are murdered by the Mountain, presumably by order of the Lannisters. Ok good reason to want blood...I'm on board. But then she starts talking about Oberyn needing to be avenged and how he was murdered or some such....uh...what? He volunteered for Trial by Combat and lost fair and square....and let's be honest Oberyn wasn't playing fair either since he probably poisoned his spear. She shouldn't cry fowl just because it didn't go her way. So anyway her plan to avenge and honor Oberyn, is to murder his remaining legitimate family...brother and nephew? I'm all for the Lannisters getting theirs but this crazy women needs to go. Also didn't Oberyn make a point of saying they don't murder children in Dorne or something like that. So what does she do? She murders a girl and a boy. Kind of sloppy writing IMO.

Like I said, not really liking what they are doing with the Dorne story arc.

Chris

[Chewie]

*snip* Oberyn wasn't playing fair either since he probably poisoned his spear.

*snip* Also didn't Oberyn make a point of saying they don't murder children in Dorne or something like that. So what does she do? She murders a girl and a boy. Kind of sloppy writing IMO.

Kind of the point. She's become that which she hates most. I don't feel it's sloppy at all. In her lust for vengeance, she jumped into the mud with everyone else.

[Dynaman]

> but her motivations are just nuts...admittedly maybe that's the point but...

Once she started hating she threw logic out the window. Oberyn killed in a fair fight? No it was an assassination.

[Duke Togo]

> but her motivations are just nuts...admittedly maybe that's the point but...

Once she started hating she threw logic out the window. Oberyn killed in a fair fight? No it was an assassination.

Oberyn lost because he let his emotions get the best of him. The Mountain was no match for him.

Like Tuco said, "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."

Edited April 27, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Dobber]

> but her motivations are just nuts...admittedly maybe that's the point but...

Once she started hating she threw logic out the window. Oberyn killed in a fair fight? No it was an assassination.

What?? Oberyn wasn't assassinated. Like Duke said he had the Mountain beaten but then he got sloppy and didn't finish the downed Mountain and got to close to him while not paying attention to him.

Chris

[Dynaman]

What?? Oberyn wasn't assassinated. Like Duke said he had the Mountain beaten but then he got sloppy and didn't finish the downed Mountain and got to close to him while not paying attention to him.

Chris

> Once she started hating she threw logic out the window. Oberyn killed in a fair fight? No it was an assassination.

That sentence was supposed to be from her perspective - no matter the actual facts she is going to consider it an assassination. When people start to hate like she has facts are ignored.

[Dobber]

Ahh, I misunderstood your post.

Chris

[Marzan]

Oberyn lost because he let his emotions get the best of him. The Mountain was no match for him.

Like Tuco said, "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk."

Cannot help but giving you a like Sir for quoting Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez in a GoT thread.

[Duke Togo]

Azor Ahai! The prince that was promised! What a episode!!

[Duke Togo]

I assume TWoW will delve much deeper into the resurrection process, but like Thoros of Myr, it took a crisis of faith to bring the dead back into the realm of the living.

[Roy Focker]

Should have came back while they were burning him. Then he gets to be in Freddy Kruger makeup for the rest of the series.

[Dobber]

Yeah I liked this episode much better than the opener....overall. BUT....

I don't buy anyone from the North siding with Ramsey over Roose. The Karstarks may hate the Starks now over Rob executing the head of the their house, so why would they be ok with Roose being killed. Roose helped bring down Robb and the rest of the Starks. Everyone in the North know's Ramsey is a nutter. Hopefully, there will be consequences to this and last weeks killing as well because, IMO, this is getting a Bit hard to believe that these big scale assassinations are happening without any trouble.

Chris

[Duke Togo]

Yeah I liked this episode much better than the opener....overall. BUT....

I don't buy anyone from the North siding with Ramsey over Roose. The Karstarks may hate the Starks now over Rob executing the head of the their house, so why would they be ok with Roose being killed. Roose helped bring down Robb and the rest of the Starks. Everyone in the North know's Ramsey is a nutter. Hopefully, there will be consequences to this and last weeks killing as well because, IMO, this is getting a Bit hard to believe that these big scale assassinations are happening without any trouble.

Chris

House Umber is in disarray because the Greatjon is still being held captive by the Freys, and the Karstarks are essentially in a bloodfeud with the Starks. House Manderly was also name dropped, but we all know the story there.

[Warmaker]

Saw the episode. All I have to say: OH crap

[Dobber]

House Umber is in disarray because the Greatjon is still being held captive by the Freys, and the Karstarks are essentially in a bloodfeud with the Starks. House Manderly was also name dropped, but we all know the story there.

Refresh my memory, what is going on with House Manderly?

Chris

[Duke Togo]

Refresh my memory, what is going on with House Manderly?

Chris

The North remembers, Dobber.

[Dobber]

Just refreshed myself...indeed it does. Good people those Manderly's

Chris

[Duke Togo]

Should have came back while they were burning him. Then he gets to be in Freddy Kruger makeup for the rest of the series.

Yeah, can't say I agree with the Freddy Kruger look, but it would have been pretty awesome had he gotten up and walked out of his funeral pyre.

[Dobber]

Yeah, can't say I agree with the Freddy Kruger look, but it would have been pretty awesome had he gotten up and walked out of his funeral pyre.

That's what I was expecting too. People would be like WTF. Then from the looks of next weeks episode it will be explained with the tower of joy sequence.

Chris

[Duke Togo]

That's what I was expecting too. People would be like WTF. Then from the looks of next weeks episode it will be explained with the tower of joy sequence.

Chris

I went into this season thing the Tower of Joy sequence was going to be the great reveal, but I now am feeling like they're not going to take it that far quite yet. But they are definitely heading down that path with the introduction of Lyanna this episode and the Tower next episode.

[Warmaker]

It will be interesting to see how Jon Snow v2.0 goes about business, especially with the traitors. We know Ramsay is going to go after Jon from the previews as well as his chat with his father in the recent episode.

I'm still a bit pissed that they offed Doran Martel, another character that was very much still alive and has machinations in place in the books. Pissed like how they offed Barristan Selmy.

[Dynaman]

I was very disappointed with the resurrection bit. Killing someone requires a sacrifice but bringing one back is just a few snips of hair and reciting mumbo jumbo?

Hopefully something more substantial is shown to be needed in the next episode.

The other guy that was brought back from the dead - what happened to him and the one who brought him back? I've forgotten and I don't remember any mention of it for awhile now.

[Duke Togo]

I was very disappointed with the resurrection bit. Killing someone requires a sacrifice but bringing one back is just a few snips of hair and reciting mumbo jumbo?

Hopefully something more substantial is shown to be needed in the next episode.

The other guy that was brought back from the dead - what happened to him and the one who brought him back? I've forgotten and I don't remember any mention of it for awhile now.

Resurrection is a strange beast in the story, and the mechanic behind it is unknown. A crisis of faith seems to be the one factor in common to both instances we know about. And, for what's it's worth, Shireen's sacrifice hadn't been paid off yet. Mel sacrificed her to make her visions in the flames reality, which she wrongly took to be about Stannis. Surprise, they were actually about Jon.

In regards to her visions, the book does a better job here, I think, because when she is looking for her champion in the flames (who she thinks is Stannis), all she sees "is Snow." She's confused by this, but now we know why she sees him. In the show she only says that she saw Jon fighting in Winterfell, which she took to mean to be fighting alongside Stannis.

As far as Thoros of Myr, Beric Dondarrion, and the rest of the Brotherhood without Banners go, well, they're still in the Riverlands. If the show heads back there (which the trailers seem to suggest), there's a chance we may see them again.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Duke Togo]

Also, it's important to keep in mind that while Jon is still dead at this point in the books, there are actually two previous instances of resurrection in the books, as opposed to the show's one. What we know from this is that in both instances the people brought back are changed to varying degrees (Beric more so because he's been brought back six times). Jon will also have to pay this price, but the question is how different will he be?

I think what we'll see from the resurrected Jon will be a reflection of what Maester Aemon said to him: "Kill the boy, and let the man be born."

Edited May 3, 2016 by Duke Togo