Game of Thrones TV talkback thread. BOOK READERS STAY OUT.

[Tober]

11 minutes ago, Knight26 said:

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Dany straight up lost it.  She has always been able to conquer before coming to Westeros and facing a real foe.  Sure they won Winterfell, but then she takes one hit after another:
Jon has the better claim to the throne
A 2nd Dragon Dead
Her army of Unsullied nearly wiped out
Her closest friend beheaded

 

Spoiler

 

There was that Jorah Mormont guy too.

And she should have learned about consequences after roasting Samwel's dad and bro instead of sparing them. Or is it supposed to be foreshadowing..? 

 

 

[Mog]

Seeing her and Drogon bust open the wall and take out the scorpions was cool and all.

But the moment she started torching EVERYONE non-discriminately, that was the darkside turn.

I thought for a second she was flying straight for the Red Keep to torch Cersei, but nope.  

Full-on scorched earth policy.  

Literally.

[Chronocidal]

I think I get more entertainment out of watching discussions on fan theories and reactions to the episodes than I ever got out of actually watching the series.  

[azrael]

4 hours ago, Knight26 said:

Which spoiler would that be?  GRRMs original plan?  Link?

Something I saw while scanning /tv on 4chan. Someone posted the main plotlines of the producers story (Not GRR Martin's) and later screen captured. Everything from that post has come up true.

36 minutes ago, Dobber said:

What??!! Lol! Like Tober said why not blame Bran, or Eddard, or Rheagar and Lianna....anyone but DANNI!  “Only natural” she responded this way! LMAO. You basically proved the writers point then! 

The people really affected by the secret are all dead save one; Dany.

[jvmacross]

16 minutes ago, azrael said:

The people really affected by the secret are all dead save one; Dany.

I would say the ones most affected are all still alive...namely the surviving Starks......they better all invest on some fire-retardant gear really quick!

 

[Tober]

34 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

I think I get more entertainment out of watching discussions on fan theories and reactions to the episodes than I ever got out of actually watching the series.  

Spoiler

Does anyone want to speculate as to the significance of the 'pale mare' that Arya claims at the end of the episode? Does it signify the end of her (s)hit list and a new start? Maybe riding off into the sunset to her death? The Faceless Man, Jaqen H'ghar disguised as a horse..? 

 

[Mazinger]

1 minute ago, Tober said:

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Does anyone want to speculate as to the significance of the 'pale mare' that Arya claims at the end of the episode? Does it signify the end of her (s)hit list and a new start? Maybe riding off into the sunset to her death? The Faceless Man, Jaqen H'ghar disguised as a horse..? 

 

Spoiler

Death rides a pale horse?

 

[zard]

Hm interesting perspectives.  Couldn't Jon rule with Dany?  Why does it have to be just one ruler?  Partnerships help balance each other. So while Dany wants to be loved as a ruler, just because others love Jon does not mean she still could not be a good ruler.

[Tober]

7 minutes ago, zard said:

Hm interesting perspectives.  Couldn't Jon rule with Dany?  Why does it have to be just one ruler?  Partnerships help balance each other. So while Dany wants to be loved as a ruler, just because others love Jon does not mean she still could not be a good ruler.

That's sorta what Varys and Tyrion were discussing, before they knew Jon is actually a Targaryen. It seems like the sensible thing to do, which doesn't apply to the House Stark way of thinking.

If Jon and Daenerys married, she could have the throne and he could do whatever. The Starks, Samwel and Tyrion keep their secret and everything works out. But that just isn't how GoT works.

[zard]

pity. it would've been interesting what the two of them could've done together harmoniously.

[TangledThorns]

This last season is close to jumping the dragon shark by being unnecessarily over the top in the overdone battle scenes. Leave that crap to Peter Jackson.

Do the writers even know who the characters are??

I guess we should expect this when the books series hadn't been finished yet?

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by TangledThorns

[electric indigo]

Spoiler

I should know better by now, but I'm still baffled how consistently the show undermines the audience's expectations and instead of a heroic battle gives us an endless massacre (The long Night) or a full-blown tragedy that tops the Red Wedding (The Bells). Of course, anything else would be disappointing.

 

[Dynaman]

I see I'm not in the majority but I thought the episode saved this season after the last two.

[Sildani]

“You’re not a sheep. You’re a dragon. BE a dragon.”

[azrael]

Seriously?

Remake Game of Thrones Season 8 with competent writers.

[Knight26]

Fans are butthurt but without seeing how the whole thing ties together they are jumping too soon.  This is an issue with the show's format.  It is too short to tell the story properly.  There are so many threads and side stories from the books that are left out that will tie into the book series ending and make things cleaner, though still GRRM messy.  Why anyone is surprised that 

Spoiler

Dany destroyed King's Landing is beyond me.  It has always been her advisors who have reigned her in in the past and none where there do so.

I know, had I been involved with that, Dany's actions could have been better justified, though the people would still vilify her.

Cersei has a handful more scorpions hidden in the city, all on top of  the Mad King's Dragonfire caches.  Upon seeing that the army and people have turned on her, the bells ringing, she orders these emplacements to attack.  Dany is waiting, listening to the bells with Tyrion nodding to her that she has won.  She is feeling good, and sees the first scorpion emerge.  Concerned she attacks, this sets off the dragonfire, which is linked to other caches and starts setting them off.  From the ground, the people see it as her attacking.  King's Landing begins to burn, buildings exploding all across the city.

This enrages Dany and she attacks the Red Keep.  In truth she is only responsible for the destruction that causes, but the survivors, seeing her flying over before caches explode and the city burns, blame her.

King's Landing is still destroyed, we still get ClegainBowl, Cersei and Jaime still die, and Dany is still vilified but it is actually Cersei's final act of petty revenge.

 

[Tober]

Here's a major spoiler for you - It doesn't matter how it ends, many people won't like it. 

At this point, Daenerys could flap off back to Meereen and leave Jon to pick up the pieces, and I wouldn't care. But I'm expecting something a bit more Romeo and Juliet... 

[Kanedas Bike]

16 minutes ago, Tober said:

Here's a major spoiler for you - It doesn't matter how it ends, many people won't like it. 

At this point, Daenerys could flap off back to Meereen and leave Jon to pick up the pieces, and I wouldn't care. But I'm expecting something a bit more Romeo and Juliet... 

Not sure why, but reading "flap off back to Meereen" made me laugh out loud.

Sure, there have been enough little moments sprinkled in here and there that the whole "we foreshadowed" this rationale put forth by the show runners can hold water, but the last two seasons have been so abbreviated that Dany's descent feels rushed and hamfisted. And as such those those little bits of foreshadowing here and there lose their meaning and subtlety. 

Even with my new, insanely low expectations for series finale I still think D&D will do something(s) to piss me off.

First half of season 8 was good (IMO), but the last two episodes (minus a few REALLY good moments in Episode 5) have sucked big ole dragon eggs.

I also think if this was just a random season that was such a mixed bag the fan reaction would not be so bad, but it's the series finale and how a story ends matters much more than the progression.

-b.

[electric indigo]

Spoiler

 

Knight26, I've seen others come up with similar constructions to take the burden from Daenerys, but I think that would be missing the point of her character arc. At the point before her dragon takes of for annihilation, she already has lost all ties to the concept that mercy is not a weakness, as she herself has put it. She has lost her surrogate father Jorah, her best friend Missandé, and two of her surrogate kids. The one who is truly loyal to her still can't love her back the way she wants to love him, others openly or secretly betray her. If she calls off the battle, the people will still see her as a foreign invader, not as the liberator she wanted to be, and her position as a queen would be delegitimized by Jon. It's not blind rage that drives her at this point, as seems to be the general perception, but the will to pursue her own goals at any cost. Leave no doubts who has the power. Shake the foundation of civilization itself, and start with a clean plate. In her perception, there's no way back.

The tragedy is that this course was not inevitable, but it's the sum of deficits and errors not only of Daenerys, but also of people like Sansa, Jon, and Tyrion, who turned away from her when she needed support. 

 

 

[505thAirborne]

2 hours ago, azrael said:

Seriously?

Remake Game of Thrones Season 8 with competent writers.

For Schlitz & Giggles I signed it. 

[Kanedas Bike]

1 hour ago, electric indigo said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Knight26, I've seen others come up with similar constructions to take the burden from Daenerys, but I think that would be missing the point of her character arc. At the point before her dragon takes of for annihilation, she already has lost all ties to the concept that mercy is not a weakness, as she herself has put it. She has lost her surrogate father Jorah, her best friend Missandé, and two of her surrogate kids. The one who is truly loyal to her still can't love her back the way she wants to love him, others openly or secretly betray her. If she calls off the battle, the people will still see her as a foreign invader, not as the liberator she wanted to be, and her position as a queen would be delegitimized by Jon. It's not blind rage that drives her at this point, as seems to be the general perception, but the will to pursue her own goals at any cost. Leave no doubts who has the power. Shake the foundation of civilization itself, and start with a clean plate. In her perception, there's no way back.

The tragedy is that this course was not inevitable, but it's the sum of deficits and errors not only of Daenerys, but also of people like Sansa, Jon, and Tyrion, who turned away from her when she needed support. 

 

 

That's very well thought out and articulated, and gives me some peace re: the events of episode 5.

That said it goes back to my point that the abbreviated seasons 7 & 8 and how that was such a huge hindrance from a storytelling perspective. Such a huge part of what made GoT great was the long plot points and character arcs *cough*Jaime*cough*.

It was the suddenness of it all, 4 episodes of drama can in no way beat the 7.2 seasons of character development that pained Danny as either hero 1A or 1B.

And *IF* this were not the series finale this would be no more shocking than the Red Wedding, Ned's beheading or other big time WTF moments Game of Thrones has done so well over the years.

Just sucks that the execution of Season 7 and 8 (bright spots in each notwithstanding) have been so bungled.

-b.

[Convectuoso]

4 hours ago, 505thAirborne said:

For Schlitz & Giggles I signed it. 

Me too 

[Thom]

I haven't been a  big watcher of the show, but I was certainly expecting the fight against the White Walkers to be more than just one episode... I would have thought they were enough of a threat to push Dany and the others almost, or all the way back, to King's Landing before they were beat. Drawing out their defeat would balance better with the seven year foreshadowing of their crossing the wall. And consider, the Wall was made to keep them out, so if they were defeated so 'easily' (easily being subjective) why couldn't the ones who made the Wall have done it as well...?

Plus, I hate that they turned Daenerys into the main villain now. I so wanted her to sit on the throne. I guess having her and Jon marry and share the Iron Throne was not GoT enough.

[Einherjar]

Pacing issues aside, I think that many, many people forgot that George R.R. Martin is not a fan of fantasy happy endings.  Seven seasons of pretty terrible things happening to characters should have been enough proof of that.

[Thom]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:57 PM, Einherjar said:

Pacing issues aside, I think that many, many people forgot that George R.R. Martin is not a fan of fantasy happy endings.  Seven seasons of pretty terrible things happening to characters should have been enough proof of that.

Very true.

[Einherjar]

My thoughts going into the finale, if you want to change or save the world, stay as far away as you can from the seven kingdoms.  Totally not worth it.

[jvmacross]

9 minutes ago, Einherjar said:

My thoughts going into the finale, if you want to change or save the world, stay as far away as you can from the seven kingdoms.  Totally not worth it.

...or don't do it in 6 episodes...

Edited May 19, 2019 by jvmacross

[TangledThorns]

My body is ready for the disappointment tonight.

[Dobber]

On 5/15/2019 at 5:12 PM, electric indigo said:

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Knight26, I've seen others come up with similar constructions to take the burden from Daenerys, but I think that would be missing the point of her character arc. At the point before her dragon takes of for annihilation, she already has lost all ties to the concept that mercy is not a weakness, as she herself has put it. She has lost her surrogate father Jorah, her best friend Missandé, and two of her surrogate kids. The one who is truly loyal to her still can't love her back the way she wants to love him, others openly or secretly betray her. If she calls off the battle, the people will still see her as a foreign invader, not as the liberator she wanted to be, and her position as a queen would be delegitimized by Jon. It's not blind rage that drives her at this point, as seems to be the general perception, but the will to pursue her own goals at any cost. Leave no doubts who has the power. Shake the foundation of civilization itself, and start with a clean plate. In her perception, there's no way back.

The tragedy is that this course was not inevitable, but it's the sum of deficits and errors not only of Daenerys, but also of people like Sansa, Jon, and Tyrion, who turned away from her when she needed support. 

 

 

Well said and agreed.

The only thing I really agree with from the disappointed fans is that last season and this season are a bit rushed, comparatively speaking. I heard it is Benioff and Weize not wanting to continue as to why it is wrapping up so quickly...and that HBO was will to through money at them to continue.

[jvmacross]

1 hour ago, Dobber said:

I heard it is Benioff and Weize not wanting to continue as to why it is wrapping up so quickly...and that HBO was will to through money at them to continue.

...have to move on to that real Di$ney money!

[505thAirborne]

Just watched the finale... I'm feeling very disappointed. 

[Roy Focker]

If you read the spoilers that came out a couple weeks ago - they were all true.

[Kanedas Bike]

Read the spoilers, IMHO the way things played out was very satisfying and much better on screen vs. what I read.

That said, it could be that I convinced myself that Episode 6 would be a continuation of how sh!tty Episodes 4 and 5 were. It was not.

Spoiler

 

All things considered this was as close to a happy ending to all surviving characters as we're going to get and I'm happy it wasn't an all out slaughter while racing to the finish.

I come away wanting more GoT after the finale vs. feeling very apathetic after I watched  "The Bells".

 

-b.

[jvmacross]

Seems like...

Spoiler

...at some point we'll be finding out exactly was lies west of Westeros....but not sure if I care...

 

[sh9000]

My wife didn’t like the ending.