Whats next for Arcadia?

[spacemanoeuvres]

2 hours ago, kyekye said:

27,864

Dayum 

[no3Ljm]

2 hours ago, seti88 said:

ermmmmm is the premium roy the same as regular roy part from the tampo? Does it seem less or not at all pinkish compared to the regular roy?

Probably it's the same as the regular one. Do note that all Arcadia white Valk releases are now pinkish.

2 hours ago, Loop said:

My gut tells me there will be a very slight pink hue if in the right lighting conditions.

My gut tells me differently. In any lighting conditions, it will still be pinkish.

 

[wmkjr]

2 hours ago, spacemanoeuvres said:

Dayum 

That's with tax included.  It's 25800 without tax. Same price as Hikaru premium.

[mechaninac]

40 minutes ago, wmkjr said:

That's with tax included.  It's 25800 without tax. Same price as Hikaru premium.

LOL!  Duty free 25800 still qualifies as a Dayum! in my book... and once you factor in shipping, things go into Hot Dayum! territory , Hikaru premium included.  These toys are fast surpassing my ability to justify they purchases, specially for items with fully amortized tooling sporting tampo applications that should've been there all along; it's a bit less jarring to contemplate that kind of price for something entirely new or unique with all the decorations present by default and with an included stand.

[barurutor]

4 hours ago, General Rasp said:

I am reserving judgement on the premium VF until Hikaru is released. I would like to see direct comparisons of the final products between the premium and the regular. 

a review's already been done, by forbes even.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2017/04/01/vf-1s-strike-valkyrie-hikaru-ichijo-custom-toy-review-better-than-any-jetfire/#14fe8c451c4b

tldr; It's exactly the same Yamato v2 VF-1 mold apart from the bright white plastic, black hand covers and additional tampo (even the strike parts have additional markings).  You can view this as a good or bad thing.  Long time collectors of the old Yamato releases, skilled modelers, or anybody who doesn't like double dipping will say this is how it should've been initially reissued by Arcadia. Others without the skill or patience to apply the decals may find it as a worthwhile upgrade to their collection.

[no3Ljm]

9 minutes ago, barurutor said:

a review's already been done, by forbes even.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2017/04/01/vf-1s-strike-valkyrie-hikaru-ichijo-custom-toy-review-better-than-any-jetfire/#14fe8c451c4b

tldr; It's exactly the same Yamato v2 VF-1 mold apart from the bright white plastic, black hand covers and additional tampo (even the strike parts have additional markings).  You can view this as a good or bad thing.  Long time collectors of the old Yamato releases, skilled modelers, or anybody who doesn't like double dipping will say this is how it should've been initially reissued by Arcadia. Others without the skill or patience to apply the decals may find it as a worthwhile upgrade to their collection.

We already posted that review and the pics in the Premium Hikaru thread.  

 

[snakerbot]

3 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Probably it's the same as the regular one. Do note that all Arcadia white Valk releases are now pinkish.

My gut tells me differently. In any lighting conditions, it will still be pinkish.

 

I understand this started with the 1J Hikaru (which I don't have), but I didn't think it was still the case. I can't discern a hint of pink in my 1S Roy. Is there variance in the shade between copies?

[no3Ljm]

20 minutes ago, snakerbot said:

I understand this started with the 1J Hikaru (which I don't have), but I didn't think it was still the case. I can't discern a hint of pink in my 1S Roy. Is there variance in the shade between copies?

Probably there is. But for me it's kind of like optical illusion with these two when comparing. If you're looking on Hikaru's 1S or 1J it's more pinkish due to his added red stripe colors. Whereas if you look at Roy's, it's not noticeable as Hikaru's due to Roy's yellow stripe color.

But for sure they're using the same white plastic for the VF-1's.

 

Edited April 13, 2017 by no3Ljm

[technoblue]

I wouldn't mind another brand new mold, or a v3 VF-1, but I'm also not blind to the fact that if Arcadia went in that direction it would be more expensive and another group of people would complain saying that Bandai is doing it all better.

I think Arcadia has found a good niche, and I'm glad they did away with the plain and pack-in-stand packaging. A premium finish version is more valuable to me than any of that. And as long as Arcadia continues to offer standard strike/super pack releases for the Valkyries that have them there will be options.

That's a good thing, IMO.

[sh9000]

I bet there will be a VF-1J Hikaru with Super Parts or premium finish VF-1J Hikaru.

[jenius]

Premium version VF-1J hikaru with GBP?

[ArchieNov]

Huh? 25800 JPY for an old 1/60 VF-1 mold with more tampo? I don't see how that price is anywhere near fair...

Edited April 14, 2017 by ArchieNov

[no3Ljm]

14 minutes ago, ArchieNov said:

Huh? 25800 JPY for an old 1/60 VF-1 mold with more tampo? I don't see how that price is anywhere near fair...

As some already pointed it out an almost '9-year old' mold.  

 

[Slave IV]

It also costs ~$400 to buy an old one without the tampo so the price seems pretty fair to me. Would I like to pay less? Sure, but I'm not missing out or complaining about them giving us items that are in demand for less than the going rate of available stock.

[Lolicon]

You can always just build yourself a time machine and travel back to 2009 when prices were more "fair". No problem! 

This topic of discussion reminds me of the time Homer was elected as sanitation commissioner. 

Mayor Quimby: Homer, you idiot! You blew through your entire annual budget in a month! Your department's broke! 

Homer: Uh, don't worry sir, I've got a solution! 

Quimby: You better, because those garbagemen won't work for free. 

Homer: Doh! 

Just replace "garbagemen" with "factory workers". 

[HardlyNever]

9 hours ago, Lolicon said:

You can always just build yourself a time machine and travel back to 2009 when prices were more "fair". No problem! 

This topic of discussion reminds me of the time Homer was elected as sanitation commissioner. 

Mayor Quimby: Homer, you idiot! You blew through your entire annual budget in a month! Your department's broke! 

Homer: Uh, don't worry sir, I've got a solution! 

Quimby: You better, because those garbagemen won't work for free. 

Homer: Doh! 

Just replace "garbagemen" with "factory workers". 

This might have been true prior to the announcement of the KO's.  Now we do actually have a choice... how valid of a choice we don't really know yet (since we've yet to see the actual quality of the KOs).

[technoblue]

9 hours ago, Lolicon said:

You can always just build yourself a time machine and travel back to 2009 when prices were more "fair". No problem! 

<snip>

I was thinking along the same lines.

If we are going to talk about fairness, then we need to realize that Yamato's strategy was unhealthy for its employees, even though it gave fans access to some great deals. Arcadia's strategy, although it raises prices on some very familiar items, is an attempt to reduce the shelf warmers and allow the company to earn money and sustain itself. 

There are plenty of options today, which I think is great. With Arcadia VF-1 types we are getting more premium releases to go with the standard releases. If Arcadia as a whole ever drifts out of my price range, then there is Bandai. For me, that seems quite fair for luxury nice-to-have toys.

30 minutes ago, HardlyNever said:

This might have been true prior to the announcement of the KO's.  Now we do actually have a choice... how valid of a choice we don't really know yet (since we've yet to see the actual quality of the KOs).

LOL! That's a bit dramatic, claiming that a KO company is driving choice in a market that has plenty of options.  

I do agree that it will be interesting to see what a KO might bring to the table, yes, but I'm not pinning my hopes on anything like Wei-Jang quality. That company released MPP10 (and its variants) to Transformers fans after years of KOs with highly variable quality control. We might get something more like the original KOs. I remember comparing my official Takara MP-10 and MP-25 to the first few Transformers KOs that I picked up out of curiosity. Those KOs were of lower quality, with obvious paint errors. The only thing that my KO MP-25 had going for it over the official version was rubber tires.

I don't know, I guess time will tell, but I'm not in a rush to KO Macross toys because of my experience with Transformers.

Edited April 15, 2017 by technoblue

[seti88]

Would i expect a re-production using an old mold to increases in price? Yes probably due to inflation on costs of production. Keeping economies of scale simple.

Would i expect a re-production to increase in price just to match current prices of the old mold in market?

As a buyer you will ask hey now...But thats the perogative of the seller. 

I do wish arcadia just released premium tampo valks at regular release prices, and cut out the regular non tampo valks. At least justify a hike in prices thats less obvious than taking a piece of the scalper prices.

[ArchieNov]

Wow. No offense, but I'm honestly surprised to see some people actually justifying Arcadia's pricing on this. Like seti88 said, I don't think using a comparison with the current aftermarket prices is a logical thing to do. Arcadia already has the molds, materials, and existing factories to produce these things. It's not like they're digging up long lost artifacts from the buried remains of Yamato or scouring the farthest reaches of Earth to gather rare materials to make them. There is no reason for them to be charging a much higher price for it.

Take for example the VF-4g reissue. The aftermarket prices for that thing were much higher than retail, but when it was reissued, it was almost exactly the same price as before after factoring in inflation. In fact, when most (in my experience) other toy companies reissue stuff, they're mostly very close to the original retail price and ignore aftermarket prices. Look at all the PVC scale statues for example. I have some of them that had gone up to 6x their retail price on the aftermarket. But when they were reissued 5 years later, the price was not far off from the original retail.

Or look at it another way. What if LEGO decides to reissue the UCS Millennium Falcon for $3.5k? Would you think that's a "fair" price since the current aftermarket prices for it are $5k or more? Let's even say the reissue will have all printed (tampoed) bricks instead of stickers too.

And please stop using the "Arcadia is a small company and they'll die if they don't price them this high" excuse. I've seen smaller companies make high quality products with lower prices.

Now if you have no problem paying these prices, more power to you. But I would like you to at least acknowledge that while you're buying this product, that it really is overpriced for what you are getting.

Edited April 16, 2017 by ArchieNov

[jenius]

Boutique shop vs mass producer. If you don't like the price that's fine, it's just a toy, don't buy it. I'm worried/hoping we're going to see a DX for like 12000Y with all the Tampo we can dream of in a year.  That would be the mass producer item you're clamoring for and it seems likely so Arcadia should make money now. We don't know the licensing situation or what they paid for the molds so we roll with the punches for now. 

Maybe Bandai will troll us with a chunky monkey reissue. 

[Roy Focker]

31 minutes ago, ArchieNov said:

Wow. No offense, but I'm honestly surprised to see some people actually justifying Arcadia's pricing on this. Like seti88 said, I don't think using a comparison with the current aftermarket prices is a logical thing to do. Arcadia already has the molds, materials, and existing factories to produce these things. It's not like they're digging up long lost artifacts from the buried remains of Yamato or scouring the farthest reaches of Earth to gather rare materials to make them. There is no reason for them to be charging a much higher price for it.

You make a good point.  The value of a popular and out of production toys will sky rocket on the 2nd hand market.   Whenever there's a reissue everyone planning to resell their spares on eBay get's piss because it no longer rare and valuable.  Reissues for the most part don't price match with the 2nd hand market.  Reissues hurt the resellers.

A good reason for a high pricing is that Arcadia makes them in very limited numbers.  Very possible as their target customers likely already has plenty of Yamatos as it is. Another reason is that you're helping them pay off some business loans. 

[technoblue]

Arcadia may have the molds, but like jenius noted, we don't know what they paid for them or for the licensing. The company also has internal costs (real estate, other legal fees, marketing fees, employee costs, and so on), so there are other margins to consider, even if you think these don't matter because you don't like the higher price.

And this argument that Arcadia is pulling the wool over our eyes by pushing aftermarket prices seems confused to me. Are we talking about the same company? If that were the case, wouldn't we be paying 50000 JPY each for these rare VF-1 releases now? If anything, aftermarket prices are correcting themselves once Arcadia releases a Valkyrie that is in demand. I also think the slightly higher cost helps them pay for their new projects. Today, that would include the announced SV-51.

I mean buy what you like. We already have Arcadia admitting that KOs are available. I'm skeptical of KOs given my experience with them in the Transformers space, but maybe KOs are just what Macross needs to get companies the Arcadia and Bandai out of autopilot mode. Who knows? What I do know is I thought I'd never see an M&M 1J reissue, but here we are with two announcements.

[Chronocidal]

49 minutes ago, jenius said:

Boutique shop vs mass producer. If you don't like the price that's fine, it's just a toy, don't buy it. I'm worried/hoping we're going to see a DX for like 12000Y with all the Tampo we can dream of in a year.  That would be the mass producer item you're clamoring for and it seems likely so Arcadia should make money now. We don't know the licensing situation or what they paid for the molds so we roll with the punches for now. 

Maybe Bandai will troll us with a chunky monkey reissue. 

Except once they release the base VF-1, it'll be another 10k yen for the missiles (and the wings with hardpoints, of course).

Edited April 16, 2017 by Chronocidal

[Universe1010]

I'm just waiting for the preorder patiently . I think I'm going to buy two of each.

[Zx31]

1 hour ago, ArchieNov said:

There is no reason for them to be charging a much higher price for it.

Decreased number of factories with the skill and precision to create a high end product combined with greater demand of factory time from more different companies combined with increasing demand for better factory worker conditions and wages combined with global inflation combined with a profit margin that means the company can stay in business and pay its employees.

Yeah, I think it's completely fair to assume the price increase from a decade ago is reasonable and I find it slightly insulting to the people creating these products that their time and effort isn't valued more. Toys aren't like computers where making the same thing over time gets cheaper because of miniaturization. Molds wear out and have to be replaced/recreated/retooled, production and overhead costs gradually increase, wages go up over time. Companies either keep the same retail cost and eat the profits until they stop making money, at which point they have to drastically raise the price all at once, or they gradually increase the price over time to maintain a healthy margin. Either way most consumers view it as price gouging instead of the slow cost of inflation that effects everything.

You 'could' make the argument that the increased price is more than you think the item is worth, but there are a vast number of reasons why they could be charging more now compared to a decade ago.

[Slave IV]

I completely aknowledge that just about every toy I buy is overpriced for what it is. From crappy Hasbro Marvel Legends and Black Series figures to expensive Valks. They're all over priced but I still pay. I'd rather pay for something quality any day though  

[seti88]

Yup it's the sellers perogative to set their prices but they do assume some risk should they seem to not value add to their product line to make it stand out. 

At least with the zeros arcadia tweaked the mold, color and to a certain extent robustness(haha no ref to 0a pls), so that it was more attractive to consumers.

I for one am spoilt for choice by so many other alternative lines and brands, that I need that extra something to push me to get a certain model. 

Obviously if you are a pure macross collector it might not apply and anything goes....

Edited April 16, 2017 by seti88

[ArchieNov]

13 hours ago, jenius said:

Boutique shop vs mass producer. If you don't like the price that's fine, it's just a toy, don't buy it. I'm worried/hoping we're going to see a DX for like 12000Y with all the Tampo we can dream of in a year.  That would be the mass producer item you're clamoring for and it seems likely so Arcadia should make money now. We don't know the licensing situation or what they paid for the molds so we roll with the punches for now. 

Maybe Bandai will troll us with a chunky monkey reissue. 

I didn't say anything about Bandai. If you read my post again, I said there were other smaller toy companies than Arcadia who make great quality items at lower prices. 

 

12 hours ago, technoblue said:

Arcadia may have the molds, but like jenius noted, we don't know what they paid for them or for the licensing. The company also has internal costs (real estate, other legal fees, marketing fees, employee costs, and so on), so there are other margins to consider, even if you think these don't matter because you don't like the higher price.

And this argument that Arcadia is pulling the wool over our eyes by pushing aftermarket prices seems confused to me. Are we talking about the same company? If that were the case, wouldn't we be paying 50000 JPY each for these rare VF-1 releases now? If anything, aftermarket prices are correcting themselves once Arcadia releases a Valkyrie that is in demand. I also think the slightly higher cost helps them pay for their new projects. Today, that would include the announced SV-51.

I commented on this because it was brought up that Arcadia's pricing is "fair" because it was still cheaper than getting it on the aftermarket, even though it is a lot more expensive than the original retail price.

Anyway, like I said in my last post, go ahead and buy it if you want, I'm not asking you not to. I may get one too. But I seriously think that no one should think that these aren't overpriced or even *gasp* a bargain.

[Kanedas Bike]

LOL - I remember when people used to complain about Yamato prices 9 years ago. 

"This should only be $ 40-$60" or whatever the argument was at the time. 

Anyone who thinks that the price of ANYTHING should remain the same over that same time frame wouldn't do very well in business.

And re: whether these are overpriced or not, everything, is "overpriced" when you factor in whatever the true cost of production is. It's called companies making a profit so that they can continue to operate and make the merchandise people seem so intent to obsess and argue over.

I wish people would just learn to spend on what they want, or not, and let it go already.

-b.

[technoblue]

10 hours ago, ArchieNov said:

I commented on this because it was brought up that Arcadia's pricing is "fair" because it was still cheaper than getting it on the aftermarket, even though it is a lot more expensive than the original retail price.

Anyway, like I said in my last post, go ahead and buy it if you want, I'm not asking you not to. I may get one too. But I seriously think that no one should think that these aren't overpriced or even *gasp* a bargain.

I guess that depends on a person's point of view. Myself, personally, I never owned the original Yamato v2 1/60 M&Ms. I did own the 1/48-scale Valkyries, before circumstances forced me to sell my original collection. Given what I paid years ago for my 1/48 M&Ms, this reissue is twice as expensive when looking at hard numbers.

Are today's retail prices too high, though? Maybe, but I can understand the reasoning for that inflation. Are Arcadia's inflated prices better than out-of-control auction/scalper prices? To me they are...undoubtedly. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by technoblue

[Boobytrap]

On 4/16/2017 at 9:13 AM, Kanedas Bike said:

LOL - I remember when people used to complain about Yamato prices 9 years ago. 

"This should only be $ 40-$60" or whatever the argument was at the time. 

Anyone who thinks that the price of ANYTHING should remain the same over that same time frame wouldn't do very well in business.

And re: whether these are overpriced or not, everything, is "overpriced" when you factor in whatever the true cost of production is. It's called companies making a profit so that they can continue to operate and make the merchandise people seem so intent to obsess and argue over.

I wish people would just learn to spend on what they want, or not, and let it go already.

-b.

I know it's comparing apples to oranges but there are examples of companies re-issuing things over the course of many years without having an increase in price. The first that comes to mind would be Gundam models. Bandai re-issues those things all the time and always at the original retail price. Last I saw they were a pretty profitable business.

Like I said, apples to oranges. But if Arcadia ever re-releases the assembly kits and tries to charge $150 or something that's when I'll call shenanigans.

[treatment]

On 4/16/2017 at 9:13 AM, Kanedas Bike said:

LOL - I remember when people used to complain about Yamato prices 9 years ago. 

"This should only be $ 40-$60" or whatever the argument was at the time. 

Anyone who thinks that the price of ANYTHING should remain the same over that same time frame wouldn't do very well in business.

And re: whether these are overpriced or not, everything, is "overpriced" when you factor in whatever the true cost of production is. It's called companies making a profit so that they can continue to operate and make the merchandise people seem so intent to obsess and argue over.

I wish people would just learn to spend on what they want, or not, and let it go already.

-b.

 

Well, the recent 1/60 VF-4G reissue from Arcadia pricing wasn't any more expensive than the Yamato 1/60 VF-4G pricing...

 

 

 

 

[Chronocidal]

27 minutes ago, treatment said:

Well, the recent 1/60 VF-4G reissue from Arcadia pricing wasn't any more expensive than the Yamato 1/60 VF-4G pricing...

I could be wrong, but I think there are a couple of reasons why that makes sense though.

Partly, I'm thinking that the VF-4 was a recent enough release that there was a minimal change in labor and manufacturing costs, so they were able to release it with no real change.

Aside from that though, and please correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the VF-4 was the only Arcadia release that was actually identical to a Yamato one.  The initial VF-1 releases came with stands, and the Fire Valkyrie was bundled with the sound booster and the band figures, if I recall.  The Anniversary schemed VF-1J was really close (just the simple fighter mode display base was packed in), but it also tanked on the market, and quickly became cheaper than a lot of Yamato releases.

I don't recall if the new VF-1S strike bundles from Arcadia come with the stand anymore though, so in that case, yes, you've got a direct comparison of products.

Anyway, I feel like in the grand scheme of things, everything evens out in the end.

If you consider how many of the Yamato VF-1s were sold for far below MSRP due to repeated clearance sales, I bet you that the hike from Arcadia's pricing is probably going to gradually drag the average sale price of them back toward the original market price from when Yamato first released them.

 

[treatment]

iirc, only the first Arcadia Hikaru and Roy 1S'es included the stands, and the valks were identical to the last Yamato versions, eg. no pinkish effects, iirc.  Jenius prolly has a review of them to further verify or not if they're really identical.

No more stands included after the first Arcadia Hikaru-1S for any valks released  (Not sure if the Armored-1J came with the stand), iirc.

I got the recent Strike Roy (no stand), and the only difference was that it's brighter-white than even my yammie TV-Roy.  Maybe it's newer plastic-material, but can't really tell.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 17, 2017 by treatment

[Kanedas Bike]

Good points re: the VF-4G, I would suspect because there wasn't a huge gap between releases. Plus the oft suspected cost of licensing and manufacturing/production costs that Arcadia probably didn't have to absorb.

I stay away from comparisons to Bandai, Takara or any company, large or small, that produces items from a larger property where you have almost instant profitability.

I LOVE Macross (toys), like most of us here, but Macross ain't Transformers or Gundam.

-b.