Whats next for Arcadia?

[pengbuzz]

13 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

Ethical considerations aside, I'm highly skeptical of these v2 1/60 VF-1 KO's. If you look at the v2 assembly kit version that Yamato released, you'll see that it has dozens of small, intricate parts would be difficult to copy on the cheap. Furthermore, the toy has small hinges and locks that bear a lot of pressure during transformation. Arcadia can rely on these small parts due to the high quality plastic that they use. But, if bootleggers opt to use cheaper plastic (eg: Toynami plastic) on their versions, it could result in cracks or outright breakages. Moreover, the Macross fanbase is considerably smaller than the Transformers fanbase, so I find it hard to believe that bootleggers would be willing to invest as much capital in Macross KO's as compared to Transformers KO's.

The Fast Packs would be a different story, since they're much simpler than the main toy. While I don't need any more Fast Packs, I'm curious to see how they'll stack up compared to Arcadia's.

I have to agree here: these small parts require a much better plastic. Having taken apart a Yamato valk or two in my time, you can really see where materials failure would be catastrophic on joints and whatnot (indeed, the shoulder and hip cracking issues on several Yamato valks IIRC was a major snafu for Yamato).

But on that note, it also depends on how easy it is to get high-quality virgin ABS. If that plastic is in high demand, the price could be considerably more and make a cheaper substitute (with less strength) a more attractive option.

[no3Ljm]

TBH, I'm really not happy about this news. But it's interesting to see if the company that's going to do this KO's are the same company whose doing Metal Build stuff. Because I really can say that the overall output that they're doing is somehow in par (sometimes better because of the tight joints) with the real deal.

 

[Mr Bomber]

Guys please stop before spanner starts to collect KOs too.

Edited March 15, 2017 by Mr Bomber
Misspell

[easnoddy]

This news is very interesting.  I started buying NEW Arcadia toys in 2016 (got the YF-19/VF-4/Roy's VF-1S) and I will be getting the Hikaru VF-1S next month.  But I would buy the boots if the quality is decent ALSO...at a reduced price.  I would have gotten the VF-0S and armor but the QC problems are very concerning from the 0D and 0A.  Plus that thing was effin 'SPENSIVE at $300+ USD.  And I was broke when HLJ had that sale that got rid of all their VF-0S.  I would get older Arcadia releases (GBP-1S/VF-0s) but the availability is very low and they're expensive on the secondary market (telling me Arcadia under-produced them). 

So in a way the boots can help fill gaps Arcadia is unwilling to unable to fill. 

[Mazinger]

8 minutes ago, Mr Bomber said:

Guys please stop before spanner starts to collect KOs too.

^ !

Well there is a precedent for collecting even ugly KO's, just ask Rick Springfield, but not about Jessie's Girl:
http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/videos/see-rick-springfields-massive-star-wars-toy-collection-20151207

Them Turkish Starswar figs aren't getting any cheaper:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/5896309/turkish-star-wars-action-figures-are-gloriously-awful

[Chronocidal]

Fortunately for me (though unfortunately for my wallet), I trust random Chinese knockoff factories even less than I do Arcadia at churning out quality products, and though they're more expensive, I'm probably going to stick with official products through reputable sources so I have some recourse if I get caught with a lemon. 

As far as pricing on the knockoffs goes though, I'm not surprised they can offer them at those prices, since after discounts, I paid less than that for a lot of my original Yamato VF-1s.  Assuming no one was taking a significant loss, and referencing the unassembled versions, I'd guess the actual parts cost around $50-$60 to produce (back then).

Thing with Arcadia though.. I don't pretend to know how the licensing process works, and I'm not going to assume the local fanbase here is representative of the Japanese customers... but Arcadia is rapidly approaching the appearance of someone shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly, and being absolutely convinced that the next shot is going to make their foot feel better. 

Between paint color nonsense, lousy engineering, or just ignoring the products people want to see, Arcadia has some issues.  At the very least they could have garnered some good will from the fans by releasing the strike-packed VF-1s first, instead of teasing their fans for years and then finally releasing what everyone wanted in the first place. 

Now they're off gallivanting through the franchise doing choice projects that I honestly don't know if there's any real demand for, and ignoring all the ones people seem to ask for repeatedly.  Maybe they're just focusing on the cheapest licenses for now?  I don't know.  I could be entirely wrong about what the fans are demanding as well.  I was plenty happy to finally get a VF-0D, but I've never been under the impression that there was all that much demand in Japan for Macross Zero merchandise.  And now they've announced they're going to remake one of the all-time biggest shelf-warmers in Yamato history.

Either way, Arcadia has to know that bootlegging is getting easier by the minute.  Pretty soon, they won't even need molds, just a copy of the product to scan, and sufficiently advanced 3D printers to make entire products from scratch.  At some point in the not-too-distant future, 3D printed parts are going to surpass your base-line bootleg molding (if they haven't already).  Then they won't even need to sell a physical product, they'll just sell you a bootleg schematic, and you can print the thing yourself.  (Some of us can do that already.)

 

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by Chronocidal

[pengbuzz]

16 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Fortunately for me (though unfortunately for my wallet), I trust random Chinese knockoff factories even less than I do Arcadia at churning out quality products, and though they're more expensive, I'm probably going to stick with official products through reputable sources so I have some recourse if I get caught with a lemon. 

As far as pricing on the knockoffs goes though, I'm not surprised they can offer them at those prices, since after discounts, I paid less than that for a lot of my original Yamato VF-1s.  Assuming no one was taking a significant loss, and referencing the unassembled versions, I'd guess the actual parts cost around $50-$60 to produce (back then).

Thing with Arcadia though.. I don't pretend to know how the licensing process works, and I'm not going to assume the local fanbase here is representative of the Japanese customers... but Arcadia is rapidly approaching the appearance of someone shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly, and being absolutely convinced that the next shot is going to make their foot feel better. 

Between paint color nonsense, lousy engineering, or just ignoring the products people want to see, Arcadia has some issues.  At the very least they could have garnered some good will from the fans by releasing the strike-packed VF-1s first, instead of teasing their fans for years and then finally releasing what everyone wanted in the first place. 

Now they're off gallivanting through the franchise doing choice projects that I honestly don't know if there's any real demand for, and ignoring all the ones people seem to ask for repeatedly.  Maybe they're just focusing on the cheapest licenses for now?  I don't know.  I could be entirely wrong about what the fans are demanding as well.  I was plenty happy to finally get a VF-0D, but I've never been under the impression that there was all that much demand in Japan for Macross Zero merchandise.  And now they've announced they're going to remake one of the all-time biggest shelf-warmers in Yamato history.

Either way, Arcadia has to know that bootlegging is getting easier by the minute.  Pretty soon, they won't even need molds, just a copy of the product to scan, and sufficiently advanced 3D printers to make entire products from scratch.  At some point in the not-too-distant future, 3D printed parts are going to surpass your base-line bootleg molding (if they haven't already).  Then they won't even need to sell a physical product, they'll just sell you a bootleg schematic, and you can print the thing yourself.  (Some of us can do that already.)

 

 

Excellent points, Chronocidal. Honestly, I'd like to see them do some Zentraedi stuff, especially the capital ships and whatnot (I don't recall Yamato/Arcadia doing any, please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Edited March 15, 2017 by pengbuzz

[HardlyNever]

I agree this is good news for consumers, but we might be getting ahead of ourselves here.  Like others, I have a bit of a love/hate relationship with Arcadia, in that I'm glad someone is still making 1/60 vf toys (that I didn't have the time/money to collect when yamato was around), but I'm a bit disappointed in the steep cost versus quality.  For what I've paid (at or below MSRP) for my 3 Arcadia's, I think the quality of construction should be a bit higher and definitely more consistent.  If a KO company can make a similar quality product for 1/3rd the cost, I think we definitely have grounds to be pissed at Arcadia (I understand they have a lot of other costs involved, and KOs will always be cheaper, but should it be 3x  more expensive?).

But I'm also skeptical of how good these KOs are really going to be.  This is a design that has known durability issues, even when made by the official license holder, so there is definitely room for something to go wrong here, especially at almost 1/4th the cost.  Looking at the advertisement again, the focker release seems to be missing a pilot and option parts (a minor oversight, but it makes me wonder what other parts of the mold they might be missing).  Coupled with the limited run these guys seem to be doing, there isn't a whole lot of incentive for them to make a great product for repeat business. 

I'm really withholding judgement until some gets their hands on one and we get an idea of the quality.  I don't think this spells the end for Arcadia if these things are going to break a month after getting them.  But they could be great, we'll just have to see.

[jvmacross]

Maybe HG will buy this latest round of Chinese KO Macross product so they could rebrand it as Robotech! 

 

[no3Ljm]

25 minutes ago, pengbuzz said:

Excellent points, Chronocidal. Honestly, I'd like to see them do some Zentraedi stuff, especially the capital ships and whatnot (I don't recall Yamato/Arcadia doing any, please correct me if I'm mistaken).

Arcadia just recently produces the whatnots which are the non-scaled Cactus and Beach Rock Fortress.

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by no3Ljm

[barurutor]

winner names, noeljm

[Chronocidal]

Really, what's actually the most concerning is a comment I remember reading from some time ago, during the production of the VF-0D.  I don't remember for sure if it was speculation, or an actual tweet from Mr. K, but one of the reasons he was said to have mentioned for the higher costs was that the "failure" rate for parts was incredibly high.

Now, that can be taken a few ways, or relate to a lot of different things.  Given the context, at the time it was easy to assume he was referring to bad paint application, leading to a lot of fudged paint jobs.

Saying that you're having a lot of failed parts at the factory is indicative of a lot of potential problems though.  On the one hand, if you're having that many issues with failed tampo prints or paint jobs, then you clearly need to either A: rethink your painting processes to be easier, or B: hire better labor.  There's a limit on how far you can go with B though, and if it's costing too much, you need to rethink your manufacturing, and find ways to simplify your painting and assembly.  Note, this is an entirely separate issue from paint color.

Bottom line, if you're making stuff this hard to assemble?  You're not benefitting anyone.  The VF-1 was probably the best blend of detail, accuracy, complexity, and ease of assembly, and it was originally sold at a great price point.  They need to get back to that as an ideal, and work towards things that will lessen production costs, while maintaining a high standard of production.

Honestly, if labor is costing that much?  Just make kits of everything and be done with it.  They'd probably save themselves years worth of lifetime from the reduction in stress and bellyaching from fans who want one or another thing done a specific way.  Easy solution: they can do it themselves!

[pengbuzz]

38 minutes ago, Chronocidal said:

Honestly, if labor is costing that much?  Just make kits of everything and be done with it.  They'd probably save themselves years worth of lifetime from the reduction in stress and bellyaching from fans who want one or another thing done a specific way.  Easy solution: they can do it themselves!

Personally, I'd LOVE a kit of the VF-1 that you put together yourself at that scale. I know that Yamato had 1/60 kits, but I could never get one.

[MAC-X]

On 3/15/2017 at 8:43 AM, sh9000 said:

If the KO VF-1 came in white, it'd be like the pink Arcadia VF-1 was the KO.

This logic is certainly interesting! 

[erizai]

20 hours ago, TheLoneWolf said:

Ethical considerations aside, I'm highly skeptical of these v2 1/60 VF-1 KO's. If you look at the v2 assembly kit version that Yamato released, you'll see that it has dozens of small, intricate parts would be difficult to copy on the cheap. Furthermore, the toy has small hinges and locks that bear a lot of pressure during transformation. Arcadia can rely on these small parts due to the high quality plastic that they use. But, if bootleggers opt to use cheaper plastic (eg: Toynami plastic) on their versions, it could result in cracks or outright breakages. Moreover, the Macross fanbase is considerably smaller than the Transformers fanbase, so I find it hard to believe that bootleggers would be willing to invest as much capital in Macross KO's as compared to Transformers KO's.

The Fast Packs would be a different story, since they're much simpler than the main toy. While I don't need any more Fast Packs, I'm curious to see how they'll stack up compared to Arcadia's.

For a toy that priced 30,000 yen, anything is possible... 30,000 yen can buy a lot of burgers at some poor countries.

[valhary]

Knowing beforehand that macross 2 (vf 2ja) and ride are outside plans that I really like to see in the near future is the vf 3000

[treatment]

Arcadia can pre-empt the bootleggers by selling the FPs and the M&M 1Js this May/17, and at good pricings for each.

Possibly 12k-15k yen for the M&M 1J each, and 4k-5k yen for the FPs.

Otherwise, lots of fans in CHN will buy the bootlegs in June or whenever it comes out.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2017 by treatment

[sh9000]

6 minutes ago, valhary said:

Knowing beforehand that macross 2 (vf 2ja) and ride are outside plans that I really like to see in the near future is the vf 3000

Who makes this and what is the scale?  I'd still buy this.

Edited March 16, 2017 by sh9000

[valhary]

http://experten.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2010/06/1100vf-3000-336.html

[spanner]

On 3/15/2017 at 6:22 AM, jvmacross said:

I'd buy a Wang-Chung MPPPP-VF-1....if it looked like this.... (the big one not the 1/55....well, actually I'd buy an upscaled Chunky Monkey too...like a 24" tall version with extra detailing!!!)

 

gahhh! I totally forgot how good this looks! I need this in my life. At least before I die I must have a huge scale perfect transformation VF-1 with amazing detail! surely that isn't too much to ask! please please please please please.....

[jvmacross]

8 minutes ago, spanner said:

gahhh! I totally forgot how good this looks! I need this in my life. At least before I die I must have a huge scale perfect transformation VF-1 with amazing detail! surely that isn't too much to ask! please please please please please.....

Not at all....Bandai just needs to greenlight the 1/35th anniversary and we can all die happy

[erizai]

Actually keeping the price low will scare the bootleg away, as the nature of Macross merchandise, used to have many parts.

I can compromise to have less tampon for sticker... 

B Brand can come out a great product with less... so A brand need to rethink manufacturing strategy... just my humble opinion... 

(B brand even can have so many tampons...lol, please don't flame me if I am comparing apple with orange... consumer always have choice...)

[barurutor]

Tampo not tampons.

Personally I think HG is to blame for all of this. If Macross could be marketed/licensed/sold globally then toy makers like Arcadia/Bandai could probably get their merchandise priced cheaper due to a larger target market. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by barurutor

[chyll2]

I dont want tampons on my valks. Anyway, I would say that Arcadia failed to meet its objective when they announced the warning on the bootlegs/KOs. They just made people, who would not otherwise know about the product, know that a cheaper copy of items they wont release will get released.

[treatment]

22 minutes ago, barurutor said:

Tampo not tampons.

Personally I think HG is to blame for all of this. If Macross could be marketed/licensed/sold globally then toy makers like Arcadia/Bandai could probably get their merchandise priced cheaper due to a larger target market. 

Not really.

At least in the US thru Amazon/Bluefin, Bandai's toys (DX/SOC/SRC/SHF/SHMA/etc/etc) are about $10+ or more expensive than importing directly from Japan at po-pricing that includes the shipping-fees. 

Some shops (b&m and online) scalps for even more, iirc. 

Not sure about the tampons, tho...

Edited March 17, 2017 by treatment

[HardlyNever]

29 minutes ago, barurutor said:

Tampo not tampons.

Personally I think HG is to blame for all of this. If Macross could be marketed/licensed/sold globally then toy makers like Arcadia/Bandai could probably get their merchandise priced cheaper due to a larger target market. 

My understanding is that Big West doesn't allow Macross to be sold outside of Japan, regardless of HG.  I could be wrong on that, though.

HG might have something to do with that policy existing, though.

[chyll2]

of course it will have to do with HG. If they allow it to be sold outside of Japan, then HG will go directly to them, not the distributor. They can get more money that way.

[HardlyNever]

26 minutes ago, chyll2 said:

of course it will have to do with HG. If they allow it to be sold outside of Japan, then HG will go directly to them, not the distributor. They can get more money that way.

I meant it isn't Harmony Gold, specifically, that is stopping Macross merch from being sold internationally.

Edited March 17, 2017 by HardlyNever

[Slave IV]

5 hours ago, valhary said:

http://experten.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2010/06/1100vf-3000-336.html

Pretty cool. That figure looks frail like a baby bird though.

[erizai]

If this is really the case, my hatred to HG is growing stronger..... 

 

But B brand can't sell (marketed) out of Japan too.... yet...

So HG could only be part of the reason, ... not all...

Well I won't comment further.

Edited March 17, 2017 by erizai

[Chronocidal]

Honestly, at this point, and at the current prices, I don't think I'd buy an M&M set again, even if they did release them.  My pair of originals were two of the very few Yamato VF-1s I actually did pre-order, and they came out to about $125 a piece before shipping, around $300 total to my door.  That same set would cost around $450 from HLJ, based on what it would cost to ship me a pair of Roy strike sets. 

Not to say I don't want them to re-release them, I'd love for them to put a dent in the existing overpriced circus of M&M auctions.  I just have a very hard time justifying getting more of the same thing at a 50% markup.

 

[locidm]

I honestly think VT-1 is a much lower risk item for Arcadia to release than M&M. When I look at M&M, I'm looking at the pair of them, and I want both. But the cost of both is so much higher, even at MRSP it's quite a bit of money for many average joes like me. VT-1 on the other hand, it's a single release, it's a hero valk, comes with Minmay, has never been re-issued even in Yamato days (I don't think), and the only versions out there have shoulder problems, which means many current owners may double dip. 

I hope the KOs won't hurt Arcadia too much. It's tough enough for them to stay afloat as is. The toy market seems saturated with high end releases, the more choices out there, the harder the choices are for collectors to spend their money. Only hardcore macross fans will buy non-hero valks.

[Sandman]

If arcadia ever does release the M&M Valks i hope they would have the sense to not release them the same month.

[jenius]

Given their release schedules so far, I don't think they'd even be capable of releasing two valks in one month. Best case scenario would probably be June and December so we get both in one year.  

I don't think they have the rights to do M&M or else they would have already. I think they're getting a sub from Bandai and Bandai only lets them release valks where the market will always have demand so Arcadia can't ruin demand if Bandai chooses to go DX. That's my conspiracy theory. 

[Chronocidal]

I'd absolutely pick up another VT-1 if it happened.  My original is just fine thanks to Graham getting ahold of spare shoulders for us back then, but I just love the paint scheme on it.

If Arcadia were to add anything, I want a duty uniformed Hikaru and Misa to sit in it.  Extra bonus if they include the tent.  I might even get a third, and customize one with a VF-1D head instead of the antenna one.

Far as conspiracy theories go though, that makes a decent amount of sense.  Bandai is probably keeping close tabs on Arcadia after the YF-19/VF-19 situation.  I wish they'd get on with more HMRs though.  Millia's finally coming out this month, but I'm surprised they actually went with the M&Ms before the VF-1D and VT-1.