Do you prefer TV or DYRL paint scheme?

[Zinjo]

DYRL, hands down.

It always struck me as more realistic (as much as an anime can get anyway) compared to the TV paint schemes

[GuardianGrey]

Mechanical design, I would choose DYRL? mostly due to the realism.

Colors is a bit tougher, for in my mind the "white" paint on the VF-1S Skull 01 (Skull Leader/Flokker Special) was suppose to be bare/clear-coated metal (knight in shining armor imagery) as was the TV VF-1J (Ichijo, the squire) & the VF-11C of M7 (visible vanguards).

The dark main colors of Dark Angels (SDFM, j/k if you didn't see them, then they did their job), Diamond & Sapphire (M7) squadrons and the YF-21 make a fair amount of logic for low visibility in space.

On the CAG/Squad Leader's unit having the squad colors bright on their tail (while the rest get shaded versions on theirs), I have no issue with.

Though, giving the whole squad said makes it harder to find the Leader.

On that thought, I believe I had read some where that the Zentradi started targeting VF-1 B/J/S units because they figured/realized that said were for the sub/main flight commanders (better fighters).

Edited May 13, 2015 by GuardianGrey

[Seto Kaiba]

Colors is a bit tougher, for in my mind the "white" paint on the VF-1S Skull 01 (Skull Leader/Flokker Special) was suppose to be bare/clear-coated metal (knight in shining armor imagery) as was the TV VF-1J (Ichijo, the squire) & the VF-11C of M7 (visible vanguards).

Not sure where you're getting that idea...

The dark main colors of Dark Angels (SDFM, j/k if you didn't see them, then they did their job), Diamond & Sapphire (M7) squadrons and the YF-21 make a fair amount of logic for low visibility in space.

Not quite. Realistically, any color is a low-viz color in space because there's simply not enough ambient light to make out color unless you're very close to a star or a massive, high-albedo surface like a planet or large-ish moon. Sci-fi commonly has ships unrealistically (and uniformly) illuminated to make it easier for the viewer to see the ship. What you'd get during most flights in space would be more on the order of what we see in the original Macross series when they pass through Jupiter's shadow... nothing visible but running lights. (Or as seen on the SDF-1 Macross in the opening sequence of DYRL?.)

On the CAG/Squad Leader's unit having the squad colors bright on their tail (while the rest get shaded versions on theirs), I have no issue with.

Though, giving the whole squad said makes it harder to find the Leader.

That's what IFF and other squad datalink tools are for.

On that thought, I believe I had read some where that the Zentradi started targeting VF-1 B/J/S units because they figured/realized that said were for the sub/main flight commanders (better fighters).

Sounds like a Robotech-ism to me.

[jvmacross]

Not sure where you're getting that idea...

maybe from the Takani, Tenjin and other various valkyrie illustrations?

[Zinjo]

maybe from the Takani, Tenjin and other various valkyrie illustrations?

Are you suggesting that shiny paint can only be bare metal?

[Seto Kaiba]

maybe from the Takani, Tenjin and other various valkyrie illustrations?

That looks like a probable place where that misconception could be picked up.

'course, we know VFs aren't flying as bare metal airframes... they've got a variety of materials applied to the airframe's composite armor skin, such as paint or coatings of passive stealth material/anti-beam weapon ablative armor. The "Caution Sign and MODEX" sections of Variable Fighter Master File also include a number of locations on the airframe (sensors and such) which are not to be painted on.

Perhaps the most blatant case of this being the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX, for which the change from blue-grey to white is explained as the result of the new formulation of ablative anti-beam coating applied to the airframe.

[jvmacross]

Are you suggesting that shiny paint can only be bare metal?

I'm only providing a possible explanation to the OP's source of his ideas regarding the valk "colors"....nothing more, nothing less

That looks like a probable place where that misconception could be picked up.

'course, we know VFs aren't flying as bare metal airframes... they've got a variety of materials applied to the airframe's composite armor skin, such as paint or coatings of passive stealth material/anti-beam weapon ablative armor. The "Caution Sign and MODEX" sections of Variable Fighter Master File also include a number of locations on the airframe (sensors and such) which are not to be painted on.

Perhaps the most blatant case of this being the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX, for which the change from blue-grey to white is explained as the result of the new formulation of ablative anti-beam coating applied to the airframe.

...and yet with all the advances in OT...they still can't formulate anti-weathering paint! Guess none of the OT budget went into advancing chemical engineering!!!

[GuardianGrey]

Okay, using quotes in an attempt to not derail lines of thought.

Though, I had originally expressed four in one post & three were committed about.

Colors is a bit tougher, for in my mind the "white" paint on the VF-1S Skull 01 (Skull Leader/Flokker Special) was suppose to be bare/clear-coated metal (knight in shining armor imagery) as was the TV VF-1J (Ichijo, the squire) & the VF-11C of M7 (visible vanguards).

Not sure where you're getting that idea...

maybe from the Takani, Tenjin and other various valkyrie illustrations?

That looks like a probable place where that misconception could be picked up.

'course, we know VFs aren't flying as bare metal airframes... they've got a variety of materials applied to the airframe's composite armor skin, such as paint or coatings of passive stealth material/anti-beam weapon ablative armor. The "Caution Sign and MODEX" sections of Variable Fighter Master File also include a number of locations on the airframe (sensors and such) which are not to be painted on.

Perhaps the most blatant case of this being the VF-171EX Nightmare Plus EX, for which the change from blue-grey to white is explained as the result of the new formulation of ablative anti-beam coating applied to the airframe.

...and yet with all the advances in OT...they still can't formulate anti-weathering paint! Guess none of the OT budget went into advancing chemical engineering!!!

The artwork is one of three reasons I thought it might be bare/clear-coated metal skin.

Another one was that other contemporary anime series of the time had defaulted to "white" for shining metallic surfaces.

The final reason was real life technical references. The binding/pigment of paint may not seem to be a lot, but not painting the external fuel tank of the shuttle launch system saved roughly (& literally) a ton of weight. A clear semi-gloss/flat finish coat would be lighter & help protect against corrosion. Also many armed forces of the time were also having their aircraft coated in a similar fashion.

One thing that we don't know is what the ECA looks like without a coating/paint. If would happen to be "white" by nature, then I would be both right (that it's just clear coated) and wrong (that it would have a metallic coloring).

Consider the white on both Max's & Kakizaki's VF-1A units.

On the anti-laser coating turning the VF-171 "white," that maybe true & in doing so might mess with the passive stealth material of the airframe.

Oh, I forgot, it now has Active Stealth.

On the weathering of the coating/paint of a VF, the chemical makeup can only do so much against physical effects. Also, some conditions a VF goes through would strip even most advanced modern day molecular bonded coatings.

The dark main colors of Dark Angels (SDFM, j/k if you didn't see them, then they did their job), Diamond & Sapphire (M7) squadrons and the YF-21 make a fair amount of logic for low visibility in space.

Not quite. Realistically, any color is a low-viz color in space because there's simply not enough ambient light to make out color unless you're very close to a star or a massive, high-albedo surface like a planet or large-ish moon. Sci-fi commonly has ships unrealistically (and uniformly) illuminated to make it easier for the viewer to see the ship. What you'd get during most flights in space would be more on the order of what we see in the original Macross series when they pass through Jupiter's shadow... nothing visible but running lights. (Or as seen on the SDF-1 Macross in the opening sequence of DYRL?.)

On reflection of, I fully agree with that line of thought.

On the CAG/Squad Leader's unit having the squad colors bright on their tail (while the rest get shaded versions on theirs), I have no issue with.

Though, giving the whole squad said makes it harder to find the Leader.

That's what IFF and other squad datalink tools are for.

In response to Seto Kaiba; the IFF & squad datalink tools are good for that, if you are a friendly unit.

In the situation that one is battlefield headhunting, it is another matter.

Read my reply below about "Robotech-ism."

On that thought, I believe I had read some where that the Zentradi started targeting VF-1 B/J/S units because they figured/realized that said were for the sub/main flight commanders (better fighters).

Sounds like a Robotech-ism to me.

That it might, Seto Kaiba, though battlefield headhunting isn't new.

While there is mention of the Zentradi feeling the VF-1A units were fodder (in the Robotech RPG core rules), it was also a plot-point in SDFM.

When Kamjin goateed Milia about one enemy pilot that is at least her equal, that sets up her confrontation/meeting with Max.

Although, and I'm not sure about, that Kamjin was actually referring to Roy.

Though Roy, Max & Ichijo flew unique units and all were frontline fighters that angered Kamjin at some point.

We see that slightly again in Macross Zero, with the duels with D.D. & Roy mostly.

For, in fighter-mode & other than paint, how can one easily tell the difference between a VF-0A & 0S while both have the Angel package?

[Valkyrie Driver]

Guardian,

Your point about headhunting is valid. Though is far less prevalent these days. In Macross Zero, the fact that D.D. and Roy seem to go at it, is probably due to the fact that they were two members of a very select few at the time, and were seeing a lot of action against each other. On that scale it's easy to pick out individuals. However on the scale we're talking for SDFM or DYRL, it is exceedingly difficult.

Squadron Colors are painted on the CAG bird for friendly recognition. The IFF only tells you if it's friendly (More sophisticated units might give you more specifics, bit that's eyes on your screens and not outside). Nothing is faster than visual recognition, to tell you who's on your wing.

As for the natural metal finish, from a practical standpoint it wouldn't be done. As a rule we stopped doing bare metal finishes in the 50's (there are a few exceptions). The shine was a shoot me signal, It increased radar reflectivity, and was easy to spot. Also, in the late 70's and early 80's we began to see low vis grey making its way onto almost all aircraft, and by the mid 90's a good 90% of all aircraft were low vis grey (it can take a while to do, especially when an aircraft had just been freshly painted). My dates might be a bit off, but the point is, bare metal is bad juju for a military aircraft.

[JB0]

As far as visible stealth on spacecraft goes... it doesn't really help a lot either way, because you're still blazing a 50-foot neon "I AM HERE" sign in the infrared.

That it might, Seto Kaiba, though battlefield headhunting isn't new.

While there is mention of the Zentradi feeling the VF-1A units were fodder (in the Robotech RPG core rules), it was also a plot-point in SDFM.

When Kamjin goateed Milia about one enemy pilot that is at least her equal, that sets up her confrontation/meeting with Max.

Although, and I'm not sure about, that Kamjin was actually referring to Roy.

Though Roy, Max & Ichijo flew unique units and all were frontline fighters that angered Kamjin at some point.

Max and Millia kinda throws a wrench in the targeting by head module theory, as Max was flying a 1A at the time.

It's debatable if Kamjin meant Max, Roy, or even Hikaru. The two wound up going toe-to-toe an awful lot, and Hikaru always came out on top somehow.

Or, indeed, if he meant anyone. He may've just been trying to save face and piss Millia off. Blame the hidden ace and challenge her pride in one shot.

...

I have a lot of trouble reading Kamjin, really.

[David Hingtgen]

TV for everything, including the Macross itself.

[GuardianGrey]

Guardian,

Your point about headhunting is valid. Though is far less prevalent these days. In Macross Zero, the fact that D.D. and Roy seem to go at it, is probably due to the fact that they were two members of a very select few at the time, and were seeing a lot of action against each other. On that scale it's easy to pick out individuals. However on the scale we're talking for SDFM or DYRL, it is exceedingly difficult.

Squadron Colors are painted on the CAG bird for friendly recognition. The IFF only tells you if it's friendl (More sophisticated units might give you more specifics, bit that's eyes on your screens and not outside). Nothing is faster than visual recognition, to tell you who's on your wing.

Agreed, that is why I liked the DYRL? Skull squadron paint scheme.

The patterns/shapes look the same, and other than the highlight colors (blue, green, red & yellow; which the squad would know who's who) in fighter/GERWALK modes they would look the same.

If there was any headhunting, the enemy could easily identify the group, though not the individual.

Remembering the comment of JBO on why Milia (or a member of her squad) took out Kakizaki in DYRL?.

If the Zentron & Meltron did work together (I know in DYRL? they were not supposedly), then headhunting of Skull squad units might have been happening, and poor Kakizaki was an unlucky one.

As for the natural metal finish, from a practical standpoint it wouldn't be done. As a rule we stopped doing bare metal finishes in the 50's (there are a few exceptions). The shine was a shoot me signal, It increased radar reflectivity, and was easy to spot. Also, in the late 70's and early 80's we began to see low vis grey making its way onto almost all aircraft, and by the mid 90's a good 90% of all aircraft were low vis grey (it can take a while to do, especially when an aircraft had just been freshly painted). My dates might be a bit off, but the point is, bare metal is bad juju for a military aircraft.

On reviewing all my National Museum of the United States Air Force books (I get a new one about every time I go, which is about once a decade), your timeframes are about right.

Though on the clear-coat, I could argue.

A semi-gloss or flat clear-coating can protect from corrosion & knock down the reflective glare to nearly zero (and, other than special units, most military units are flat finished, I believe) and allow for a bare metal look.

With OT, one could theorize that coating with radar absorbent/defusing properties could have been formulated (& be semi-clear), though that would be speculative.

Is painting a unit mostly white really better in looks that a metal, no matter what the gloss/reflection of the finish is?

Second thought, usually a flat/matte finish on bare metal doesn't look good (IMHO) and semi-gloss is only slightly better.

As far as visible stealth on spacecraft goes... it doesn't really help a lot either way, because you're still blazing a 50-foot neon "I AM HERE" sign in the infrared.

I don't know where the visible stealth came in...

Oh, on the low-visibility (I usually read visible stealth as Cloaking technology)

I see now, and you are right, although I would have to think for cooling & low-detection the engineers would have a way to bleed off the excessive heat and not have the unit be a natural target.

Max and Millia kinda throws a wrench in the targeting by head module theory, as Max was flying a 1A at the time.

True, though Max's blue paint may have made him easier to identify.

It's debatable if Kamjin meant Max, Roy, or even Hikaru. The two wound up going toe-to-toe an awful lot, and Hikaru always came out on top somehow.

Or, indeed, if he meant anyone. He may've just been trying to save face and piss Millia off. Blame the hidden ace and challenge her pride in one shot.

...

I have a lot of trouble reading Kamjin, really.

Again, true, JBO.

We may (thank goodness) never understand Kamjin, the ally-killer.

He may have not really thought anyone of the UNS could best Milia, and his saving face while challenging her pride may have been part of a plan.

If he viewed Milia as a rival/threat, getting her to challenge UNS pilots to find "the best" would set her up for a "lucky shot" to take her out (be it an actual random shot by a UNS, or not-so friendly-fire).

Kamjin, despite his ego, was not idiotic person.

Although, that same ego lead him to do stupid things.

[Mr March]

Actually, Macross is one of the few science fiction franchises that would have the potential ability to achieve stealth in space, but neither the official trivia nor any of the animated productions ever explored adding such an aspect to the world building. So much of the technology in Macross (OverTechnology) is based around drawing/shunting back and forth between super dimension space (fold space) and three dimensional space (real space). It seems to me to be highly probable that most of the heat generated by the valkyrie's own engines could simply be discared into super dimension space/fold space given the nature of the reaction engine. Especially since the engines themselves are described as built upon super dimension spatial theory. This wouldn't eliminate the infrared bloom of a variable fighter, but it would make it far less intense than a craft of similar power and thrust capability. But of course, Macross has never explored such a possibility of the science in its own fictional world.

[JB0]

I don't know where the visible stealth came in...

Oh, on the low-visibility (I usually read visible stealth as Cloaking technology)

I see now, and you are right, although I would have to think for cooling & low-detection the engineers would have a way to bleed off the excessive heat and not have the unit be a natural target.

Well, the heat has to go SOMEWHERE. And in the vacuum of space, there's few places that it can be thrown without lighting yourself up like a box of flares.

Heck, even if just life support will still light you up.

As Mr March noted, Macross is one of the few universes with a built-in excuse for where it would go, but they make no effort to explore this.

[Seto Kaiba]

The final reason was real life technical references. The binding/pigment of paint may not seem to be a lot, but not painting the external fuel tank of the shuttle launch system saved roughly (& literally) a ton of weight.

Probably not as severe an issue on a smaller craft like a VF... esp. if, as in Macross, the "paint" is also fulfilling other functions... and this neatly ties into the next bit:

On the anti-laser coating turning the VF-171 "white," that maybe true & in doing so might mess with the passive stealth material of the airframe.

Oh, I forgot, it now has Active Stealth.

Actually, according to the descriptions in Macross Chronicle and Great Mechanics.DX, the two are actually one and the same. The ablative anti-beam coating is an added function of the passive stealth coating applied to the airframe.

On the weathering of the coating/paint of a VF, the chemical makeup can only do so much against physical effects. Also, some conditions a VF goes through would strip even most advanced modern day molecular bonded coatings.

The material we see is pretty darn tough stuff... though that's a recurring theme in Macross where material science is concerned.

The paint on the YF-21 survived pretty much everything that was thrown at it, until pushed the YF-21 to the limit at too low of an altitude and the paint burned off from the friction heating at some ungodly high velocity below 30km.

(Mind you, there's some art that suggests Mylene hand-painted the Gubaba on her VF-11MAXL... and that's shown to have been tough enough to withstand reentry heat.)

That it might, Seto Kaiba, though battlefield headhunting isn't new.

While there is mention of the Zentradi feeling the VF-1A units were fodder (in the Robotech RPG core rules), it was also a plot-point in SDFM.

That's... not exactly accurate. Quamzin just said that there was an ace aboard the Macross that was as good (or better) than Milia, and at the time Max was not flying an "elite" craft either. Not to mention Milia's exploratory attack had her killing mooks at random because she had no idea what to look for.

We see that slightly again in Macross Zero, with the duels with D.D. & Roy mostly.

For, in fighter-mode & other than paint, how can one easily tell the difference between a VF-0A & 0S while both have the Angel package?

Now THAT part is true... though the VFs in question needed to get VERY close to each other in order for the pilots to recognize their opposite numbers... and they needed to be on fairly intimate terms to recognize the other's personal markings.

Squadron Colors are painted on the CAG bird for friendly recognition. The IFF only tells you if it's friendly (More sophisticated units might give you more specifics, bit that's eyes on your screens and not outside). Nothing is faster than visual recognition, to tell you who's on your wing.

The IFF and HUD actually are shown to cheerfully tag nearby units with not only their type, but their unique identification if they're friendlies... you might call it an aid to visual recognition that removes any ambiguity.

Well, the heat has to go SOMEWHERE. And in the vacuum of space, there's few places that it can be thrown without lighting yourself up like a box of flares.

Heck, even if just life support will still light you up.

As Mr March noted, Macross is one of the few universes with a built-in excuse for where it would go, but they make no effort to explore this.

Actually... the descriptions associated with the VF-25 suggest that it's actually storing its waste heat somewhere insulated that won't show up on infrared detectors, and then radiating it out after combat ends using the wings as a heat sink.

[JB0]

Oh, the -25 DOES do something with heat? That's awesome!

[Valkyrie Driver]

I really like the DYRL paint scheme the best, it's simple and elegant, all the while staying true (mostly) to the colors assigned to the characters in SDFM (Where Kakizaki got his green from I don't know). I still like the Low vis grey, like on Shin's bird from M0, and I still think that its a better all around scheme for a Variable fighter.

In fact I'd like to get duplicates of most of my Fighter Toys, so I can paint them in low vis grey.

[GuardianGrey]

I do get annoyed when individuals either do not fully quote, or seem to selectively pick parts of a post to reference.

Any selected post references will be underlined.

Strikeouts are of information that I had wrong &/or corrected on.

Those that are in italics are references that I am questioning about.

The final reason was real life technical references. The binding/pigment of paint may not seem to be a lot, but not painting the external fuel tank of the shuttle launch system saved roughly (& literally) a ton of weight. A clear semi-gloss/flat finish coat would be lighter & help protect against corrosion. Also many armed forces of the time were also having their aircraft coated in a similar fashion.

One thing that we don't know is what the ECA looks like without a coating/paint. If would happen to be "white" by nature, then I would be both right (that it's just clear coated) and wrong (that it would have a metallic coloring).

Consider the white on both Max's & Kakizaki's VF-1A units.

Probably not as severe an issue on a smaller craft like a VF... esp. if, as in Macross, the "paint" is also fulfilling other functions... and this neatly ties into the next bit:

That maybe true, though is there any reference/trivia of what the default/natural color of ECA is?

On the anti-laser coating turning the VF-171 "white," that maybe true & in doing so might mess with the passive stealth material of the airframe.

Oh, I forgot, it now has Active Stealth.

Actually, according to the descriptions in Macross Chronicle and Great Mechanics.DX, the two are actually one and the same. The ablative anti-beam coating is an added function of the passive stealth coating applied to the airframe.

Okay, that goes with a thought that I had posted...

With OT, one could theorize that coating with radar absorbent/defusing properties could have been formulated (& be semi-clear), though that would be speculative.

And, even though I was wrong on how long militaries kept the bare metal look, the colors of the F/B-117, F-22 & F-35 are that way due to the radar abating material that the surfaces are made of, & painting over was said to increase radar return.

I had assumed (incorrectly it seems) that the same was true for the VF-17/171 series.

On the weathering of the coating/paint of a VF, the chemical makeup can only do so much against physical effects. Also, some conditions a VF goes through would strip even most advanced modern day molecular bonded coatings.

The material we see is pretty darn tough stuff... though that's a recurring theme in Macross where material science is concerned.

The paint on the YF-21 survived pretty much everything that was thrown at it, until pushed the YF-21 to the limit at too low of an altitude and the paint burned off from the friction heating at some ungodly high velocity below 30km.

(Mind you, there's some art that suggests Mylene hand-painted the Gubaba on her VF-11MAXL... and that's shown to have been tough enough to withstand reentry heat.)

On the YF-21 final fight/flight, I thought that was atmospheric charring (like the early re-entry capsules got}, though that was also with the belief that the YF-21's skin was like the F-22/35/117.

The panel lines are were we seen heat buildup during Guld's chase of the X-9 (the glowing red during & majority of the black after), which would be accurate.

On Mylene's VF-11MAXL-kai, the Gubaba was on top of the wing.

So, as long as the binding agents don't "boil" in the cooler temperatures, it would not have to be.

Considering the ventral side during re-entry is roughly three times hotter, if VF units do atmospheric insertion like the shuttle did.

Though tougher, physical weathering is still going to happen.

That it might, Seto Kaiba, though battlefield headhunting isn't new.

While there is mention of the Zentradi feeling the VF-1A units were fodder (in the Robotech RPG core rules), it was also a plot-point in SDFM.

When Kamjin goateed Milia about one enemy pilot that is at least her equal, that sets up her confrontation/meeting with Max.

That's... not exactly accurate. Quamzin just said that there was an ace aboard the Macross that was as good (or better) than Milia, and at the time Max was not flying an "elite" craft either. Not to mention Milia's exploratory attack had her killing mooks at random because she had no idea what to look for.

That sounds like part of a conversation JBO & I had...

Again, true, JBO.

We may (thank goodness) never understand Kamjin, the ally-killer.

He may have not really thought anyone of the UNS could best Milia, and his saving face while challenging her pride may have been part of a plan.

If he viewed Milia as a rival/threat, getting her to challenge UNS pilots to find "the best" would set her up for a "lucky shot" to take her out (be it an actual random shot by a UNS, or not-so friendly-fire).

Kamjin, despite his ego, was not idiotic person.

Although, that same ego lead him to do stupid things.

Which leaves open many questions.., which is better for the Old-time Shipping Wars thread.

We see that slightly again in Macross Zero, with the duels with D.D. & Roy mostly.

For, in fighter-mode & other than paint, how can one easily tell the difference between a VF-0A & 0S while both have the Angel package?

Now THAT part is true... though the VFs in question needed to get VERY close to each other in order for the pilots to recognize their opposite numbers... and they needed to be on fairly intimate terms to recognize the other's personal markings.

And you just made my point.

D.D. & Roy knew their personal marks, and knew/learned the others paint.

Even with the VF-0 Angel package on, Roy's tail being black with a Jolly Roger emblazoned on it (the CAG unit) would practically scream who he was, and anyone else wasn't.

D.D. wasn't as bad as that (no CAG tail marking), although his unit being the only one painted in low-visibility gray did not help.

maybe from the Takani, Tenjin and other various valkyrie illustrations?

Was thinking on that shining metal finish, and remember that I had bought both the 1/144 VF-11C & VF-11MAXL-kai kits from Bandai.

I looked at the decal sheets, which had the white of the UNS & surrounding area near the Gubaba as reflective silver.

I think that reinforced my idea that it was to be metallic, despite the pictures depicting the white paint.

So, I blame Bandai.

----- Back to Topic -----

As I stated in an earlier post, for mechanical I prefer the DYRL? designs. Colors was a toss up, other than the paint scheme for the Skull Squadron.

With that said, the only pattern we have seen on the VF-1S is the Skull Squadron layout.

For the general VF-1A units, I prefer the paint scheme of Vermillion wing & UN Headquarter Guard, or the Dark Birds. The light brown to me looks like $#!+, IMHO, so I would have preferred Kakizaki in the green.

Of those that are shown, the SDF Macross commander scheme for the Skull Squadron VF-1J units are preferred. And again, the light brown looks like crud.

For the training units (VF-1D or VT-1), I actually like the DYRL? scheme for.

Oh, I would once again like to thank Mr. March for his work with the Macross Mecha Manual site.

Though, a question on the VT-1 coloring. Why is not the centerline from cockpit to the head (battroid) orange? I reference to the fighter mode for the reason.

Edited May 17, 2015 by GuardianGrey

[Seto Kaiba]

I do get annoyed when individuals either do not fully quote, or seem to selectively pick parts of a post to reference.

Some folks like to get directly to the important bits, and cut out the bits that aren't directly relevant to their response and dozens of image uploads... makes it easier to read, y'know?

That maybe true, though is there any reference/trivia of what the default/natural color of ECA is?

Based on Master File and the scenes of the YF-21's paint burning off in Plus, to be a sort of medium grey color... either a warm grey (6% yellow) or a cool grey (6% blue), that seems to vary scene-to-scene and image-to-image. It's highly probable that there is no one uniform color or shade in which energy conversion armor is found in its unpainted form, since that would vary based on the composite materials used in the armor's construction.

D.D. & Roy knew their personal marks, and knew/learned the others paint.

But they had to get to impractically close quarters to recognize each other... and even then, Roy's paintjob only stood out because the VF-0's in question were from an evaluation unit that didn't have any kind of uniform heraldry at the time. Things got more uniform with the VF-1 (circa DYRL) and on later VFs, where there might only be a colored stripe to distinguish one pilot's machine from another... and often not even that much. After that, completely individualized paint schemes seem to be the domain of the irregulars (e.g. Sound Force) and mercenaries (SMS).

[Mr March]

Oh, I would once again like to thank Mr. March for his work with the Macross Mecha Manual site.

Though, a question on the VT-1 coloring. Why is not the centerline from cockpit to the head (battroid) orange? I reference to the fighter mode for the reason.

You're most welcome. I'm working hard to update as many of the oldest pieces of colored art as I can. Always trying to improve the site. I'm thankful you and other fans enjoy the content.

Yes, it is a color error of which I'm aware. This was one of the first valkyries I ever colored, so it's a very old and very low-res piece, one that I was hoping would eventually be replaced when finished line art of the VT-1 Battroid mode was eventually released. Sadly, it appears that will never happen. Perhaps a good candidate for a fan art commission

Since I really dislike coloring sketches, I've not bothered to rescan the original concept art, instead I just update the lousy old version. Here it is (plus the NEW fighter for comparison)

Edited May 17, 2015 by Mr March

[Mommar]

You're most welcome. I'm working hard to update as many of the oldest pieces of colored art as I can. Always trying to improve the site. I'm thankful you and other fans enjoy the content.

Even though I've seen everything on that site thousands of times I still end up looking at it once or twice every few days.

[Mr March]

Even though I've seen everything on that site thousands of times I still end up looking at it once or twice every few days.

Well then you're sure to be pleased by what's coming. I'm at almost 200 pieces of material, either new pieces or revisions of existing art. The VT-1 fighter I've posted above is a typical example of the new, high res scans and enhanced coloring that will be on almost all the new artwork. There will be plenty to ogle

Edited May 17, 2015 by Mr March

[Valkyrie Driver]

First, Mr. March, time I open this forum up it's automatic that I bring up the Mecha Manual because it's my go to reference. You do a fantastic job keep up the good work.

And you just made my point.
D.D. & Roy knew their personal marks, and knew/learned the others paint.

Even with the VF-0 Angel package on, Roy's tail being black with a Jolly Roger emblazoned on it (the CAG unit) would practically scream who he was, and anyone else wasn't.
D.D. wasn't as bad as that (no CAG tail marking), although his unit being the only one painted in low-visibility gray did not help.

If you'll remember, Roy and D.D. knew each other before they became enemies, so there's a chance that D.D.'s paint job was distinctive, since the regular mook birds were painted Wilbur Creech brown (the poo brown color that all US military buildings are painted).

It's easy for a fighter pilot to recognize another pilot's particular style. If we go back to WW1, you had pilots recognize the red Baron, they may not have known who it was before he was publicized, but they recognized the danger and said, "THE RED ONE! SHOOT THE RED ONE! OR HE'LL KILL US ALL!!!"

[Marzan]

I love em both, but if I had t choose, I'd go for the TV paint schemes.

[GuardianGrey]

And you just made my point.

D.D. & Roy knew their personal marks, and knew/learned the others paint.

Even with the VF-0 Angel package on, Roy's tail being black with a Jolly Roger emblazoned on it (the CAG unit) would practically scream who he was, and anyone else wasn't.

D.D. wasn't as bad as that (no CAG tail marking), although his unit being the only one painted in low-visibility gray did not help.

But they had to get to impractically close quarters to recognize each other... and even then, Roy's paintjob only stood out because the VF-0's in question were from an evaluation unit that didn't have any kind of uniform heraldry at the time. Things got more uniform with the VF-1 (circa DYRL) and on later VFs, where there might only be a colored stripe to distinguish one pilot's machine from another... and often not even that much. After that, completely individualized paint schemes seem to be the domain of the irregulars (e.g. Sound Force) and mercenaries (SMS).

If you'll remember, Roy and D.D. knew each other before they became enemies, so there's a chance that D.D.'s paint job was distinctive, since the regular mook birds were painted Wilbur Creech brown (the poo brown color that all US military buildings are painted).

It's easy for a fighter pilot to recognize another pilot's particular style. If we go back to WW1, you had pilots recognize the red Baron, they may not have known who it was before he was publicized, but they recognized the danger and said, "THE RED ONE! SHOOT THE RED ONE! OR HE'LL KILL US ALL!!!"

On some of your points, Seto Kaiba, I do agree.

For the CAG tail paint, the reason I didn't agree is basic. How does one tell the difference between a male & female robin? The color on the breast.

I do understand that the surface area of the tail (fighter aircraft or VF-0/1) is ratio smaller than the robin's breast. Though, once learned, that is an identifying mark.

Also, with the combat many VF units get engaged are "impractically close quarters," recognition would be more frequent.

On the uniform heraldry, I will partly agree.

Though the reason is, as Valkyrie Driver pointed out, the mook fighters are painted in a similar fashion even in SDF-Macross...

& Macross Zero...

Though the reasons for this, I feel, is for entertainment & marketing. One wants to easily see the action without hunting for the characters.

As for a "realistic" mercenary Air Corp, the manga of "Area 88" is fitting. Majority of the fighters (even though different types of) had the same basic paint scheme, although the tails were emblazoned/stylized differently.

On the Sound Force, that was for marketing (in series & real life), considering that the Jamming Birds were not so flamboyant.

For Manfred von Richthofen (aka the Red Baron), in DYRL? I feel Miria fit that role well.

The Zentradi warriors knew that the red painted Queadluun-Rau was deadly to engage, with little possibly of knowing the pilot's name.

And Miria continued that with her red VF-22S/M37.

I feel Klan Klang tried to tap into that with her Queadluun-Rhea, or a form idol mimicry.

Now, going slightly back on Topic, while I like the movie colors, I preferred the mechanical design of the TV series for the Queadluun-Rau better.

And, at first viewing of the TV paint scheme, it seems uniform enough to make it hard to tell on Meltran from another (commander or general solider).

[Seto Kaiba]

On some of your points, Seto Kaiba, I do agree.

For the CAG tail paint, the reason I didn't agree is basic. How does one tell the difference between a male & female robin? The color on the breast.

Robins don't normally whip through the air at hundreds of kilometers an hour though... (it'd be freaking scary if they did, the birds in my yard keep getting blitzed on fermenting berries and dive-bombing each other). Camera systems in Macross are undeniably very VERY good, but I don't think they're quite THAT good... to pick a single enemy out of a crowd and mark it as the commander based solely on visual cues.

I do understand that the surface area of the tail (fighter aircraft or VF-0/1) is ratio smaller than the robin's breast. Though, once learned, that is an identifying mark.

An identifying mark one can eyeball if you get sufficiently close for a long enough time... from the dialog in Zero it sounds more like D.D. recognized Roy from his distinctive flying style as much, if not more than, his paintjob. (On the other hand, Roy seems to spot D.D. because of his distinctive all-black paintjob and fanged skull-and-crossed-swords... so it could go both ways.)

Also, with the combat many VF units get engaged are "impractically close quarters," recognition would be more frequent.

... okay, you absolutely have me there. Most of the main character dogfights certainly occur at ranges close enough for the pilots to exchange profane hand gestures.

On the uniform heraldry, I will partly agree.

Though the reason is, as Valkyrie Driver pointed out, the mook fighters are painted in a similar fashion even in SDF-Macross...

The same appears to be true for elite units later on too... where everyone's pretty much painted the same. If Master File was anything to go by (and it may or may not be!), units where the aces engage in "combat peacocking" are the exception rather than the rule...

For Manfred von Richthofen (aka the Red Baron), in DYRL? I feel Miria fit that role well.

The Zentradi warriors knew that the red painted Queadluun-Rau was deadly to engage, with little possibly of knowing the pilot's name.

And Miria continued that with her red VF-22S/M37.

Well, that may actually be a definite Red Baron-type situation... in the series, Milia was renowned even among the male portions of Boddole Zer's gender-segregated fleet for her amazing combat prowess. Macross 7's unaired episode, "Fleet of the Strongest Women" seems to affirm that that she was notorious among other fleets as well... and that she wasn't the only notorious ace the women had either (Chlore).

The Macross II prequel games ran with this too... with the Leplendis fleet in 2037 also having its own notorious top ace who went out of her way to paint her machine differently from everyone else.

[Sildani]

Did the VF-1 brownies even have different paint schemes between SDF and DYRL?

[Mr March]

It's unclear whether they were supposed to or not. The DYRL animation depicts several "brownie" color schemes for the VF-1A Valkyrie, including one just like the TV series. The others are minor differences of that same TV scheme, which may actually be just simple coloring/animation mistakes rather than anything meant to be a genuine variant.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Mr March

[GuardianGrey]

An identifying mark one can eyeball if you get sufficiently close for a long enough time... from the dialog in Zero it sounds more like D.D. recognized Roy from his distinctive flying style as much, if not more than, his paintjob. (On the other hand, Roy seems to spot D.D. because of his distinctive all-black paintjob and fanged skull-and-crossed-swords... so it could go both ways.)

I'm going to get away from the D.D./Roy identified units and kick at the Nora/Shin units.

Nora's SV-51 would be a prime example of flamboyant paint scheme for the purpose to be seen, and Shin knew it after his first encounter with her.

I believe Nora said about Shin that even though he changed machines (VF-0D to the VF-0 Angel), that he still flew "like a little boy(?)."

If one believes in biometric signatures (how one does things in a way unique to only them) is magnified/transferred through the tools we use (VF units included), then all the pilots would known their "dance partner" due to the amount of engagements they had verses each other.

The same appears to be true for elite units later on too... where everyone's pretty much painted the same. If Master File was anything to go by (and it may or may not be!), units where the aces engage in "combat peacocking" are the exception rather than the rule...

On this I will agree, considering the VF-19s of M7. The Emerald Squad seemed mostly uniform...

compared to the Sound Force unit...

Though on the main topic of TV vs. Movie, the mechanical design of Reguld is the same, though I like the TV blue better.

[Seto Kaiba]

Nora's SV-51 would be a prime example of flamboyant paint scheme for the purpose to be seen, and Shin knew it after his first encounter with her.

I believe Nora said about Shin that even though he changed machines (VF-0D to the VF-0 Angel), that he still flew "like a little boy(?)."

If one believes in biometric signatures (how one does things in a way unique to only them) is magnified/transferred through the tools we use (VF units included), then all the pilots would known their "dance partner" due to the amount of engagements they had verses each other.

Admittedly, it was probably a lot easier to ID an enemy pilot based on their style or a particular paintjob when there were only a few dozen operational, combat-worthy VF's in the entire world, and only a handful of people truly proficient in their use.

The task of identifying an enemy pilot by his style or paint would be a lot harder when there are thousands or tens of thousands of virtually-identical fighters kicking around.

[Valkyrie Driver]

Biometric signatures do translate through the tools we use. I'll use some examples from my own experience.

A martial artist can identify an opponent by their technique, they have a certain style. For instance, I favor gross motions and joint manipulation over finesse and timing (I trained to fight, not to compete, fine motor skills are the first to go under stress). As such I go for easy to execute throws, reaps, joint locks and chokes.

Shooting, I can tell a lot about the shooter by looking at the target. Again fine motor control is one of the first things to go under stress, so you can tell the style of the shooter. You can tell if they're rushing their shots, or if they're flinching, or if they're pulling the trigger rather than squeezing. With rifle you can tell how well they control the muzzle by how wide the groupings are, or if the grouping is irregular, showing that they might be holding too far back, etc...

Similarly, playing airsoft, I can tell what groups came from whom, by their placement. My buddy favors the "Nuts to guts" approach, so his shots tend to be low, while I favor high shots, typically in the upper chest and throat area.

In navigation left handed people will always trend left of their target, while righties trend right. If the individual is aware, the trend might be reversed as they over compensate.

Some of the experiences I don't have but where signatures translate, Air Combat obviously. Automobile racing, bicycle racing, motorcycle racing.

Just some examples where preferences and style translate through tools.

[GMK]

.

And, at first viewing of the TV paint scheme, it seems uniform enough to make it hard to tell on Meltran from another (commander or general solider).

Which of these is the TV Q-Rau?

[Kelsain]

Which of these is the TV Q-Rau?

Both.

Standard unit color on the left, Milia's on the right.

[Mr Bomber]

i prefer tv on VF1, but on SDF i got mixed feelings, i love the paint scheme on tv, but on movie is what it should be considered more realistic.

[GMK]

Both.

Standard unit color on the left, Milia's on the right.

Thanks for the clarification.