Macross 7 fan recut?

[Saruta]

It looks like the possibilty gets mentioned now and then (the last mentioning was by Valkyrie Driver) so I'm making a thread to discuss it - and perhaps to start buulding a team?

It looks like many people agree that Macross 7 has a workable plot, awesome music, interesting (if also annoying) characters - and a terible lot of filler/padding/canned stuff, making it pretty hard to watch.

There are some precedents of fan recuts to rectify such issues. Might such a recut be possible for M7?

It could be a series of 12 to 20 episodes. Alternatively, it could be an expanded FB7 with a runtime of 3 to 4 hours. I like the idea of FB7 (Luca's electronic antique shop = headcanon, even if the movie is generally noncanonical as the final concert does not fit the timeline... except there is no Macross canon anyway, etc). But the short runtime makes the retelling fail.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Saruta

[Gubaba]

You can't improve on perfection.

[kazuo]

You can't improve on trash.

FTFY.

[Gakken85]

LOL.

It would be hard to make it if you edit the clown valk out.

Which is really the worst part.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Gakken85

[JB0]

LOL.

It would be hard to make it if you edit the clown valk out.

Which is really the worst part.

The Protodeviln twins would like to argue the point.

I think this is a great idea. We could call it Macross 7: Special Edition. Maybe even get George Lucas to record an introduction for us.

[Renato]

Great idea guys! While we're at it, why don't we mix it together with episodes of G Gundam and Escaflowne? Those will certainly help improve the drama. And have a narrator that explains EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME, because I'm sick and tired of people saying that sound doesn't travel in space, and not understanding sound energy and Project M, etc... Oh, also let's change the concept of Anima Spiritia to.... erm... I GOT IT! A TYPE OF FUEL.

......

Please let us learn from the mistakes of the past, that is all I humbly ask.

[Valkyrie Driver]

It would be difficult, but not impossible. But no, it would be more along the lines of DBZ kai, just cutting some of the filler. Saruta, I was thinking more along the lines of cutting it down to say 36 episodes like the original SDFM. That way, we still get some background stuff going on, but not overly much. It would be a lot of work, and I have too much on my plate as it is, with School, robotics, programming projects, and other hobbies to worry about a fan recut of a 20 year old TV show, that was, in spite of its glaring flaws, a decent entry to the franchise. The whole Idea of a recut was just a mental exercise, but if you want to tackle it, go for it, I'd love to see what you come up with.

[JB0]

Great idea guys! While we're at it, why don't we mix it together with episodes of G Gundam and Escaflowne? Those will certainly help improve the drama. And have a narrator that explains EVERYTHING, ALL THE TIME, because I'm sick and tired of people saying that sound doesn't travel in space, and not understanding sound energy and Project M, etc... Oh, also let's change the concept of Anima Spiritia to.... erm... I GOT IT! A TYPE OF FUEL.

......

Please let us learn from the mistakes of the past, that is all I humbly ask.

In fairness, EVERYTHING is improved with the addition of G Gundam.

[azrael]

Please let us learn from the mistakes of the past, that is all I humbly ask.

People have short memories.

[Mr March]

It's a curious idea to reduce the running time/episode count of a series so it tells a stripped down version of the same story. But I think fan edits are more interesting when the editor discovers the possibility of a new through line for an existing narrative, altering the focus of the story onto a different character(s) or different, but pre-existing elements of the plot. I've always felt one of the larger flaws in Macross 7 is a crtically uninteresting main character and the lack of enough material to make any of the supporting cast engaging enough over the lengthy run time of the series. Now to be fair, few of the Macross lead characters have been all that interesting as personalities, but they are often written with entertaining character arcs, are used to explore interesting larger ideas and have interesting places in the plot of their respective series. I'd be curious if a re-edit of the available material in Macross 7 could produce a more entertaining character arc for one or more of the characters and make the plot flow smoother so as to be more rewarding. I don't think Max, Milia, Ray or Veffidas have near enough material to work into another narrative, but it would be interesting to consider if characters like Mylene or Gamlin could have their material re-edited into something tighter and more entertaining in a shorter span of time.

[hal9000]

I like where a fan edit could go but. I fell it may be easier to make a master list of must watch episodes and just skip some. Kinda like the way you want to watch the first two seasons of st:tng large plot or important character devolpment only. I think of we could find 10 episodes to cut and still get all the plot and story parts it may be more fun to watch.

[Nekko Basara]

I feel like the greatest potential in a fan edit, which unfortunately couldn't come from a "must watch" list, is the opportunity to introduce more variety to the music. A fan edit wouldn't be restricted to just the music that was on sale at the time a certain episode aired, so it could bring in more songs sooner to replace umpteen uses of "Planet Dance." Even better, the extended catalog of sources like Acoustic Fire and Re.Fire could be used. Admittedly, the editor would have to keep the tone consistent and not make it seem as if Fire Bomber had their full catalog available from day one; in particular, we see certain songs being written and recorded during the show itself. But, with that in mind, I think a fan edit with a focus on the music has the potential to enhance the show in a way that both super-fans and haters could appreciate.

Unless they are specifically Fire Bomber haters. Screw those guys.

[Cdr Fokker]

A fan edit wouldn't be restricted to just the music that was on sale at the time a certain episode aired, so it could bring in more songs sooner to replace umpteen uses of "Planet Dance." Even better, the extended catalog of sources like Acoustic Fire and Re.Fire could be used. Admittedly, the editor would have to keep the tone consistent and not make it seem as if Fire Bomber had their full catalog available from day one; in particular, we see certain songs being written and recorded during the show itself. But, with that in mind, I think a fan edit with a focus on the music has the potential to enhance the show in a way that both super-fans and haters could appreciate.

My thought with the haters of the reuse of common songs like Planet Dance is that it is actually reflective of real life - think about how the same one or two songs from an artist are often played again and again on the radio, and then become near-demanded concert staples: even if the musicians don't especially like them.

Is more musical variety good? Sure. But there is at least a viable in-universe reason for why we hear a lot of the same songs repeated.

And as you noted, we see the band writing new music through the series - having certain songs played before then wouldn't make sense. I would say the same thing with a lot of later stuff - anything from Re.Fire!! for sure, as well as certain tracks from Dynamite Fire!! that are prominent in D7 and seem to be more "current" at that time, unlikely to have been composed a year or two earlier. (e.g., I wouldn't think something like New Frontier would have been composed in-universe during the events of M7 proper.)

[Nekko Basara]

My thought with the haters of the reuse of common songs like Planet Dance is that it is actually reflective of real life - think about how the same one or two songs from an artist are often played again and again on the radio, and then become near-demanded concert staples: even if the musicians don't especially like them.

Is more musical variety good? Sure. But there is at least a viable in-universe reason for why we hear a lot of the same songs repeated.

And as you noted, we see the band writing new music through the series - having certain songs played before then wouldn't make sense. I would say the same thing with a lot of later stuff - anything from Re.Fire!! for sure, as well as certain tracks from Dynamite Fire!! that are prominent in D7 and seem to be more "current" at that time, unlikely to have been composed a year or two earlier. (e.g., I wouldn't think something like New Frontier would have been composed in-universe during the events of M7 proper.)

I think those are all good points.

Regarding the "Planet Dance" effect, I didn't regard its frequent re-use as a realism issue. I agree that a group's first hits always get played to death, but that doesn't mean the show has replicate the effect. I thought the general concern, even among fans of the show (like me), was that using one song so often just gets cloying. It may be what a real resident of Fleet 7 would experience if they hung around a mall all day, but I, as a viewer, would sacrifice a bit if that "realism" for more variety.

By the same token, I would give up some realism to get post-M7 music into the series. Yes, it would take a knowledgeable fan with a good ear to keep it consistent, and certain versions (like anything on Gift 25) simply wouldn't fit, no matter how awesome they are. But I think it could work. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the introduction of new tracks into M7 was originally dictated at least as much by what was ready and being pushed to market in Japan as it was by what fit the story.

[Valkyrie Driver]

It's a curious idea to reduce the running time/episode count of a series so it tells a stripped down version of the same story. But I think fan edits are more interesting when the editor discovers the possibility of a new through line for an existing narrative, altering the focus of the story onto a different character(s) or different, but pre-existing elements of the plot. I've always felt one of the larger flaws in Macross 7 is a crtically uninteresting main character and the lack of enough material to make any of the supporting cast engaging enough over the lengthy run time of the series. Now to be fair, few of the Macross lead characters have been all that interesting as personalities, but they are often written with entertaining character arcs, are used to explore interesting larger ideas and have interesting places in the plot of their respective series. I'd be curious if a re-edit of the available material in Macross 7 could produce a more entertaining character arc for one or more of the characters and make the plot flow smoother so as to be more rewarding. I don't think Max, Milia, Ray or Veffidas have near enough material to work into another narrative, but it would be interesting to consider if characters like Mylene or Gamlin could have their material re-edited into something tighter and more entertaining in a shorter span of time.

That's pretty much the basic Idea I was getting at. Although by narrowing the focus to mainly plot and some filler, we would get to see more of the supporting characters we want to see, just by the increase in saturation due to the lower episode count. It would be cool to see where it could go.

[Mr March]

I'm actually thinking a step beyond that. I agree a shorter running time would solve pacing problems, reduce repetition and add more immediacy and dramatic tension. But it wouldn't solve many of the biggest problems with Macross 7.

Whether you like the characters or not, try to think of them in terms of definable traits and dramatic circumstances, to determine their narrative potential. For example, Mylene has some potentially interesting elements to her character such as her youthful exuberance, her love for music and a defiant determination to follow through on the potential of both. These aspects of her personality are at odds with (and often clash with) the social mores and gender roles of her society. Now over the 49 episodes of the Macross 7 series, far too little of that is present in her character story to make exploring those elements all that engaging and thus little dramatic tension can be maintained. Also, Mylene's character arc lacks sufficient impact upon the plot.

But imagine this: what if the available material for Mylene were edited into a much shorter 24 or 12 episode version of Macross 7, Further, what if there were some way to re-imagine the Protodeviln so that a big part of their own existence were somehow thematically tied to Mylene's own character arc? Perhaps the Protodeviln - as aliens/outsiders in our reality - must also learn to focus their own exuberance and talents in a way that constructively aligns with their current reality (basically, fitting in and playing well with others instead of warfare). Mylene then becomes the conduit through which her own arc is resolved and leads to understanding between humans/Zentradi and the Protodeviln, in which a plot device like Basara could still play a key, but secondary role that is more theme than character (which would mirror his current status in the existing M7 narrative quite well).

Like I have posted, I don't if there is enough useful material to re-edit into that, but Mylene as a character with growth potential and an arc that ties into the theme of the overall story (in a significant way) would be far more compelling of a story than what there is now.

[JB0]

In a similar vein, I was always disappointed Basara came out of his coma when he did, because (yet again) he stole the spotlight and choked another character's chance for meaningful contribution.
I would've greatly enjoyed a few episodes of Mylene growing as a character and a singer. It would tie directly back to the existing plot point of Mylene's sound energy not being strong enough. She could stop being overshadowed by Basara in multiple senses.

AND it would provide an indirect chance to explore Basara's character, as Mylene has to figure HIM out to figure out why he's so much more effective than her, both as an entertainer and as a "fighter."

But as always, every time anything interesting started happening, Basara was all "Nope, none of that happenin'. I'm the star here. HEY EVERYBODY! JUMPIN' ON THE PLANET DANCE!"

He's still singing over Mylene's solo, even from within a coma.

[anime52k8]

In fairness, EVERYTHING is improved with the addition of G Gundam.

I can get behind this statement.

[Gubaba]

Renato's idea is good, but I think I may have a better one...

Saruta said to cut it down to three or four hours. I think we can do better than that: less than two.

So here's my idea: everyone loves Frontier, right? So let's have a frame story about, I don't know, Ozma, let's say, getting some mysterious videos sent to him. For laughs, let's make them VHS tapes. So he watches these tapes and we could use them to cut in the Macross 7 story. Maybe we could have a running subplot where more and more Frontier characters join him in watching the Macross 7 story, and it could culminate in a Sheryl and Ranka concert.

What do you think?

Edited May 5, 2015 by Gubaba

[JB0]

Renato's idea is good, but I think I may have a better one...

Saruta said to cut it down to three or four hours. I think we can do better than that: less than two.

So here's my idea: everyone loves Frontier, right? So let's have a frame story about, I don't know, Ozma, let's say, getting some mysterious videos sent to him. For laughs, let's make them VHS tapes. So he watches these tapes and we could use them to cut in the Macross 7 story. Maybe we could have a running subplot where more and more Frontier characters join him in watching the Macross 7 story, and it could culminate in a Sheryl and Ranka concert.

What do you think?

I dunno, seems like there's some loopholes. Like how's he gonna GET theses tapes in the first place? Most if it shouldn't have been recorded on video in-universe. Maybe make the protodeviln deliver them, that makes it a lot easier to hadnwave away where these recordings came from.

[Gubaba]

I dunno, seems like there's some loopholes. Like how's he gonna GET theses tapes in the first place? Most if it shouldn't have been recorded on video in-universe. Maybe make the protodeviln deliver them, that makes it a lot easier to hadnwave away where these recordings came from.

GENIUS!! You and me, man... We could take over the world!

[Nekko Basara]

Wait, what if Ozma got those tapes from the weird bird, but instead of Luca having the necessary hardware, he had to hire a couple of shady bounty hunters to retrieve it?

Bam, perfect FB7 + Bebop ep.18 fan edit!

Now, how to add G Gundam...

Edited May 5, 2015 by Nekko Basara

[JB0]

Wait, what if Ozma got those tapes from the weird bird, but instead of Luca having the necessary hardware, he had to hire a couple of shady bounty hunters to retrieve it?

Bam, perfect FB7 + Bebop ep.18 fan edit!

Now, how to add G Gundam...

Domon and Rain are the shady bounty hunters, of course.

[Duke Togo]

Cut the show down to just its intro, and it'd be perfect. Too short, you say? Ok, well, you I suppose you could cut it down to "Fleet of the Strongest Women" and it would still be pretty good.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Duke Togo

[Noyhauser]

FTFY.

This is an example of a bad fan edit and why one should not mess with Macross 7.

[Renato]

Why do people love Fleet of the Strongest Women? I like it too, but I just don't understand why the people who think Basara is annoying and/or the concept of M7 is silly, hold THAT up as an exception? Should I remind you that in that almost-completely-lacking-in-story episode, Basara bitches and moans and then launches a giant speaker into a capital ship and belts out his song and the aliens then find him irresistible and so all turn into screaming groupies...? I think it's a lot of fun, but THIS is what you want?? The main series is somehow worse?? REALLY?

[JB0]

You're just jealous of Basara's game.

[Gubaba]

Who wouldn't be?

[Zinjo]

The simple challenge of creating a coherent and entertaining culling of the series down to 24 or 25 episodes would be interesting in itself.

The editors choices would greatly impact the focus and pace of the show.

From a purely experimental point of view, it would be fascinating to see what results.

I've always maintained it was a 1 season show, shoe horned into two seasons.