Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, in theaters Dec. 16, 2016

[Kelsain]

When he didn't have Tarkin rushing things and could take his sweet time? Sure.

Also note that Leia DID give them the location of the Yavin base, just as they planned.

Still OT, that always seemed dumb to me. Leia's the one who is certain the Empire is tracking the Falcon. But what does she do? Heads straight to the Rebel base anyway, giving them hardly any time to plan an attack.

[JB0]

Kind of a stretch.....

And if you are referring to the Falcon being tracked....no info was "extracted" from her during interrogation....again....stretching....

Where is the stretch? They explicitly state in the movie, on-screen, that Leia was ALLOWED to escape so that her "rescuers" would lead them to the rebel base.

In other words, she did EXACTLY what they wanted.

I didn't say she gave them information during the interrogation. I said she gave them the location of the Yavin base, just as they'd planned.

The point is, while she proved remarkably resistant to torture, drugs, and force-mind-reading, that didn't ACTUALLY stop her from telling them where Rebellion HQ was.

Were I going to inject supposition and hypothesis, I'd suggest that Tarkin was an incompetent buffoon, and that had he left Vader to his work instead of bringing her to the bridge and making a theatrical show out of Alderaan in an attempt to rush things, she would've cracked eventually.

Instead he interrupted an effective and competent interrogator's work, galvanized her will, and turned most of the galaxy against the Empire* in his "effective demonstration" of the Death Star on a defenseless planet of innocents.

*It's notable that they have a fairly impressive fleet of ships in Return of the Jedi and some brand-new fighters, instead of the scraps and dregs of the first two movies. That's a good indicator that they have much more financial and material support than they did BBY. Also, you know, they blew up an entire planet of innocents and then the rebels destroyed their tool of genocide.

Kinda funny as this whole silly debate started with my speculation regarding the possibility of the RO ship being "tracked" to a potential rendezvous point over Tatooine....LOL!!!

But no one ever said that a ship can't be tracked in Star Wars.

Just that the hand-off didn't happen over Tatooine, and there's no sane way to put a third ship in the opening scene of the original movie.

I mean, I'm sure the prequels would've done it, but the prequels are terribly written incoherent messes. We're STILL trying to figure out the certain-point-of-view that makes Revenge of the Sith's Death Star skeleton work.

Still OT, that always seemed dumb to me. Leia's the one who is certain the Empire is tracking the Falcon. But what does she do? Heads straight to the Rebel base anyway, giving them hardly any time to plan an attack.

Yeah, I dunno what the heck Leia was thinking there.

Maybe the destruction of her home planet and entire family(at that point in the narrative) shook her up more than she let on, and it was a bad decision born of tremendous stress?

Alternatively, maybe she figured that, given enough time, they could trace the rebels from Dantooine to Yavin anyways, so getting the plans to the analysts as soon as possible took priority over making sure they weren't followed.

[jvmacross]

Where is the stretch? They explicitly state in the movie, on-screen, that Leia was ALLOWED to escape so that her "rescuers" would lead them to the rebel base.

In other words, she did EXACTLY what they wanted.

I didn't say she gave them information during the interrogation. I said she gave them the location of the Yavin base, just as they'd planned.

The point is, while she proved remarkably resistant to torture, drugs, and force-mind-reading, that didn't ACTUALLY stop her from telling them where Rebellion HQ was.

Were I going to inject supposition and hypothesis, I'd suggest that Tarkin was an incompetent buffoon, and that had he left Vader to his work instead of bringing her to the bridge and making a theatrical show out of Alderaan in an attempt to rush things, she would've cracked eventually.

Instead he interrupted an effective and competent interrogator's work, galvanized her will, and turned most of the galaxy against the Empire* in his "effective demonstration" of the Death Star on a defenseless planet of innocents.

*It's notable that they have a fairly impressive fleet of ships in Return of the Jedi and some brand-new fighters, instead of the scraps and dregs of the first two movies. That's a good indicator that they have much more financial and material support than they did BBY. Also, you know, they blew up an entire planet of innocents and then the rebels destroyed their tool of genocide.

But no one ever said that a ship can't be tracked in Star Wars.

Just that the hand-off didn't happen over Tatooine, and there's no sane way to put a third ship in the opening scene of the original movie.

I mean, I'm sure the prequels would've done it, but the prequels are terribly written incoherent messes. We're STILL trying to figure out the certain-point-of-view that makes Revenge of the Sith's Death Star skeleton work.

Yeah, I dunno what the heck Leia was thinking there.

Maybe the destruction of her home planet and entire family(at that point in the narrative) shook her up more than she let on, and it was a bad decision born of tremendous stress?

Alternatively, maybe she figured that, given enough time, they could trace the rebels from Dantooine to Yavin anyways, so getting the plans to the analysts as soon as possible took priority over making sure they weren't followed.

I said it was a "stretch" because I was replying to wether or not Leia gave up any information as a direct result of interrogation....clearly she did not....your second reply seems to agree with that although I still think they would not have succeeded via interrogation of anykind.....

However, the only reason they got what they wanted was due to Leai allowing them to track them all the way to Yavin.....they would have had nothing had they killed her as Tarkin wanted...so you are probably right, Tarkin was too quick in "giving up".....

When did they use Force mind reading in Episode 4???? Sounds like you may be wanting to retcon Episode 4 to fit in with Episode 7....LOL

You are apparently trapped by only what you see on film and do not have enough of an imagination to envision how RO may end to tie-in with ANH...although maybe you only "inject supposition and hypothesis" it if it suits your argument......Thus, not sure how you cannot imagine a "hand-off" occuring over Tatooine orbit....Are you saying that there is no way a ship could be destroyed on the other side of Tatooine NOT shown during the opening sequence of ANH???? Wow! Apparently, in your mind ships can only rendezvous on one location around a planet's orbit....

And just so you are not confused...it is just speculation.....it does not mean it is going to happen that way....relax

[Kelsain]

When did they use Force mind reading in Episode 4???? Sounds like you may be wanting to retcon Episode 4 to fit in with Episode 7....LOL

Well, the interrogation was left intentionally vague. All we know is that Darth Vader & a couple other dudes were there, and a floaty droid with delivery forceps was approaching ominously with a syringe. Vader states "Her resistance to the 'mind probe' is considerable..." Is the mind probe the droid? Is it a general interrogation protocol? Is it what Vader & Sidious call rooting around & "probing" your subject's mind for visions and memories?

In later produced, fully canon media, we see three other examples of dark-side users interrogating prisoners:

End of Rebels, S1:

After Agent Kallus exhausts his traditional methods, the Grand Inquisitor uses the Force to try and dig into Kanan's head. Kanan is fairly successful at blocking him.

TFA:

After being captured, we see Poe strapped to a similar device that was used on Han in ESB. He is already roughed up, and there's a very similar droid to the one in ANH in the background. IIRC, it's stated that he won't give anything up to the FO interrogators. Kylo Ren then uses the Force (in the exact same way as the Inquisitor) to easily get the info about BB-8 from Poe. Later, we see Kylo try this on Rey, although seemingly without the standard torture first, and she resists him quite handily.

Yes, it's retconning now, but Star Wars is no longer a standalone film. As far as I'm aware, this has not been explicitly stated, but this is my thought:

The "mind probe" Vader speaks of is this technique. Perhaps the droid administered drugs have a part in it. Unable to get info in the normal way, Vader tries to use the FOrce on Leia. Not only is she strong-willed & determined enough to resist standard torture techniques, her latent Force strength prevents Vader from digging around, much as Rey resisted Kylo Ren. Of course, this is just my opinion, but it works for me. While Vader did seem surprised by this, he certainly didn't show any suspicion about it, or sense any connection to her. That might've been interesting - but of course, they hadn't come up with the idea that Leia was his daughter yet.

[jvmacross]

Well, the interrogation was left intentionally vague. All we know is that Darth Vader & a couple other dudes were there, and a floaty droid with delivery forceps was approaching ominously with a syringe. Vader states "Her resistance to the 'mind probe' is considerable..." Is the mind probe the droid? Is it a general interrogation protocol? Is it what Vader & Sidious call rooting around & "probing" your subject's mind for visions and memories?

In later produced, fully canon media, we see three other examples of dark-side users interrogating prisoners:

End of Rebels, S1:

After Agent Kallus exhausts his traditional methods, the Grand Inquisitor uses the Force to try and dig into Kanan's head. Kanan is fairly successful at blocking him.

TFA:

After being captured, we see Poe strapped to a similar device that was used on Han in ESB. He is already roughed up, and there's a very similar droid to the one in ANH in the background. IIRC, it's stated that he won't give anything up to the FO interrogators. Kylo Ren then uses the Force (in the exact same way as the Inquisitor) to easily get the info about BB-8 from Poe. Later, we see Kylo try this on Rey, although seemingly without the standard torture first, and she resists him quite handily.

Yes, it's retconning now, but Star Wars is no longer a standalone film. As far as I'm aware, this has not been explicitly stated, but this is my thought:

The "mind probe" Vader speaks of is this technique. Perhaps the droid administered drugs have a part in it. Unable to get info in the normal way, Vader tries to use the FOrce on Leia. Not only is she strong-willed & determined enough to resist standard torture techniques, her latent Force strength prevents Vader from digging around, much as Rey resisted Kylo Ren. Of course, this is just my opinion, but it works for me. While Vader did seem surprised by this, he certainly didn't show any suspicion about it, or sense any connection to her. That might've been interesting - but of course, they hadn't come up with the idea that Leia was his daughter yet.

Haven't seen Rebels yet but looking forward to binge watching it soon....I really liked the recent teaser that was posted.....

Unfortunately, due to Disney wanting to expand the universe "officially" to include all other forms of media beyond the films....you are now limited as to what is "canon" as Disney now clearly wants to have more control of it........with that said, and until proven otherwise, I prefer to think Vader simply did not possess that "skill"...if you want to say that he did, then you'd have to question why he would not have had the same reaction that Kylo did with Rey...meaning it would have been obvious to Vader that Leia was way stronger than "normal" with the Force.....thus tripping warning signs for him and possibly, if he shared his findings, with the Emperor.....I wouldn't surprise me if ANH gets retconned to fit in with the ST in several ways.....they have done away with one EC in exchange for another...except this time we are being told from the start it is "canon"....so purchase as much as you can into it!

[Dynaman]

Vader NOT knowing Leia (and Luke till Empire) was his kid and is strong (*) with the Force is another one of those little continuity problems, best not to even try to explain it away...

(*) - though we never actually see her do very much at all in regards to using the force, at least on screen - knowing Han died is about it. (novels and comics, don't officially exist)

[jvmacross]

Vader NOT knowing Leia (and Luke till Empire) was his kid and is strong (*) with the Force is another one of those little continuity problems, best not to even try to explain it away...

(*) - though we never actually see her do very much at all in regards to using the force, at least on screen - knowing Han died is about it. (novels and comics, don't officially exist)

Well, she knew where Luke was dangling at the end of his father-son reunion....

[Duke Togo]

Vader NOT knowing Leia (and Luke till Empire) was his kid and is strong (*) with the Force is another one of those little continuity problems, best not to even try to explain it away...

(*) - though we never actually see her do very much at all in regards to using the force, at least on screen - knowing Han died is about it. (novels and comics, don't officially exist)

Well, it's made pretty clear Vader had no idea he had a daughter. And why would he know Luke was his kid before being told his name? Especially since he'd never crossed paths with Luke before.

[Dynaman]

Well, it's made pretty clear Vader had no idea he had a daughter. And why would he know Luke was his kid before being told his name? Especially since he'd never crossed paths with Luke before.

Your joking right?

[miles316]

Given How quickly Vader came to the "Sister" (ROTJ) conclusion I question weather Vader was ignorant, and might have already known deduced that Leia was his doughtier.

Edited January 20, 2016 by miles316

[mechaninac]

The way I see it, Vader gleans the existence of Luke's sister directly from Luke's mind. Both Vader and Sidious were goading Luke and playing on his insecurities regarding the fate of his friends, the rebellion, and the ultimate success of the mission on and above Endor, in order to trigger an unguarded moment and emotional turmoil to give them an opening to corrupt Luke towards the Dark Side. Remember, Obi Wan's Force ghost himself admonished Luke, upon his realization that Leia was his twin, to bury his feelings deep lest they be used to serve the Emperor. So, there was no incongruity with Vader having no idea Luke had a sister before the confrontation in the throne chamber of the DS2.

[Negotiator]

The way I see it, Vader gleans the existence of Luke's sister directly from Luke's mind. Both Vader and Sidious were goading Luke and playing on his insecurities regarding the fate of his friends, the rebellion, and the ultimate success of the mission on and above Endor, in order to trigger an unguarded moment and emotional turmoil to give them an opening to corrupt Luke towards the Dark Side. Remember, Obi Wan's Force ghost himself admonished Luke, upon his realization that Leia was his twin, to bury his feelings deep lest they be used to serve the Emperor. So, there was no incongruity with Vader having no idea Luke had a sister before the confrontation in the throne chamber of the DS2.

this... Luke's "thoughts betrayed him"

[Dynaman]

The problem is that Vader was not only in close proximity to Leia for a considerable period of time he also grabbed her shoulder and NEVER noticed she had the force. Considering how others go about and can tell just by looking at them - long before said person (Annakin, cough) manifests any power - that is a continuity problem.

[Duke Togo]

The way I see it, Vader gleans the existence of Luke's sister directly from Luke's mind. Both Vader and Sidious were goading Luke and playing on his insecurities regarding the fate of his friends, the rebellion, and the ultimate success of the mission on and above Endor, in order to trigger an unguarded moment and emotional turmoil to give them an opening to corrupt Luke towards the Dark Side. Remember, Obi Wan's Force ghost himself admonished Luke, upon his realization that Leia was his twin, to bury his feelings deep lest they be used to serve the Emperor. So, there was no incongruity with Vader having no idea Luke had a sister before the confrontation in the throne chamber of the DS2.

It's not the way you see it; it's the way it's obviously meant to be seen. You're 100% correct.

[jvmacross]

The problem is that Vader was not only in close proximity to Leia for a considerable period of time he also grabbed her shoulder and NEVER noticed she had the force. Considering how others go about and can tell just by looking at them - long before said person (Annakin, cough) manifests any power - that is a continuity problem.

This may eventually be retconned in the coming movies, books and/or whatever other media Disney will require you to purchase to "get the whole story"....

If they come up with some nonsense regarding Luke being able to camouflage Rey's mind/block Rey's memories of being a Jedi-in-training.....then that would also help in explaining why Luke and Leia were able to remain "hidden" from Vader and the Emperor for so long during the "Dark Times"....heck....the Emperor was able to hide in plain sight during the Clone Wars from the most powerful Jedi's of the time....so same concept I guess.....

[electric indigo]

The problem is that Vader was not only in close proximity to Leia for a considerable period of time he also grabbed her shoulder and NEVER noticed she had the force. Considering how others go about and can tell just by looking at them - long before said person (Annakin, cough) manifests any power - that is a continuity problem.

Don't forget that Vader could sense Luke's Force-Fu when he was chasing his X-Wing at the Death Star Battle.

The simple explanation is that Vader was nobody's father until the script for Empire was written.

[Duke Togo]

Don't forget that Vader could sense Luke's Force-Fu when he was chasing his X-Wing at the Death Star Battle.

The simple explanation is that Vader was nobody's father until the script for Empire was written.

That's because Luke was using the Force at the time.

[jvmacross]

So is there some physical limitation, as in proximity to the being using/disturbing the Force, that will either allow you to "sense" their utilization/disturbance of the Force or not?

This seems to be the case, at least with Vader....as the same thing happens when Luke arrives at Endor durig ROTJ.

Additionally, it would explain why Obi-Wan could remain undetected on Tatooine while still using the Force to "learn" from Qui-Gon during the "Dark Times"....

However, it seems to be contradicted when Alderaan gets blown up light-years away from Kenobi....similarly how Leia senses Han's death.....

I am sure it can all be explained via Midichlorians!

[Dynaman]

Probably the best way to describe it, other than out and out retcons between films, is that the force is powered at the speed of plot. (to borrow JMS's description of how fast ships move in the B5 universe)

[jvmacross]

Probably the best way to describe it, other than out and out retcons between films, is that the force is powered at the speed of plot. (to borrow JMS's description of how fast ships move in the B5 universe)

[ErikElvis]

Now I'm a huge Star Wars fan but I can't say I was too excited for this movie. But I did read something earlier that says we'll get to see a brutal Vader in the movie and that really flicked a switch in my brain to get me excited over it.

[derex3592]

Same here.

[Black Valkyrie]

Rogue One is nearly done.

[Mommar]

And I still don't care about a Han Solo movie.

[peter]

Now I'm a huge Star Wars fan but I can't say I was too excited for this movie. But I did read something earlier that says we'll get to see a brutal Vader in the movie and that really flicked a switch in my brain to get me excited over it.

Vader's going to be in it???? That would be awesome. He really needs to redeem himself after his last whiny public appearance in ep III

Edited February 22, 2016 by peter

[Duke Togo]

/Film: ‘Star Wars: Rogue One’ Trailer Coming Tomorrow

Edited April 6, 2016 by Duke Togo

[Dobber]

Finally!

Chris

[Duke Togo]

Finally!

Chris

I expected them to hold this to be shown before Civil War. Kinda surprised they dropped it early.

[Kelsain]

I refuse to be a part of this teaser for a teaser thing. I can wait til tomorrow, but I am stoked!

[electric indigo]

Cylons!

[JB0]

I refuse to be a part of this teaser for a teaser thing. I can wait til tomorrow, but I am stoked!

The movie has stormtroopers. Also laser sounds and TIE fighter sounds.

[/spoilers]

[Dobber]

I expected them to hold this to be shown before Civil War. Kinda surprised they dropped it early.

I was thinking Jungle Book myself. Figured everybody was going to see Civil War already anyway, so before JB would be a good way to give people extra incentive to see it. I wonder if the Ep. 8 teaser will be attached to Rogue One.

Chris

[areaseven]

[Kelsain]

Hollllllly crap...

[ErikElvis]

I wasn't really interested in this but that actually looks pretty good.