Rogue One: A Star Wars Story, in theaters Dec. 16, 2016

[Mommar]

5 hours ago, Roy Focker said:

Maybe Vader pulled a muscle in his big scene that causes him to send the Storm Troopers in first in Episode IV.  It also explains why the last duel with Obi-wan was so epic. 

Anyways there's also this.

 

Plinkette's summation at the end is wrong, if only bcause he praises TFA which has EXACTLY THE SAME ISSUES addressed in this video.  Except it was shot with upbeat dialog instead of low key dialog.  His opinion would be valid id he were consistent across both films bu he gives one a pass while the other he doesn't.

[electric indigo]

I largely disagree with Plinkett, but he was right about Jyn's father: Ok I built a self-destruct mechanism into that super weapon, but you'll have to steal the plans from that high-security library anyway. 

(Oh and only one of the last living Jedi can set it off...)

[kajnrig]

3 hours ago, Mommar said:

Plinkette's summation at the end is wrong, if only bcause he praises TFA which has EXACTLY THE SAME ISSUES addressed in this video.  Except it was shot with upbeat dialog instead of low key dialog.  His opinion would be valid id he were consistent across both films bu he gives one a pass while the other he doesn't.

TFA is marginally more enjoyable than Rogue One, though. Maybe only by virtue of being part of the mainline series, but still, I enjoyed it slightly more anyhow... if "enjoyed" is the right word.

34 minutes ago, electric indigo said:

I largely disagree with Plinkett, but he was right about Jyn's father: Ok I built a self-destruct mechanism into that super weapon, but you'll have to steal the plans from that high-security library anyway. 

(Oh and only one of the last living Jedi can set it off...)

That entire subplot with the father was really, really dumb. And not dumb in a "eh, I'll roll with it" kind of way, but in a "this really should have been left on the cutting room floor" way.

[Dynaman]

It had to be subtle or someone else would have noticed it and corrected it before the station was built.  If the original had been built with the zig zag exhaust port of the 2nd one it would have been game over rebellion.

[renegadeleader1]

The more I think about Vader's fan pandering two minutes of badassness the more I find it's addition pointless, excessive, and continuity breaking.

Not only does the scene not mesh well with how he's portrayed at the begining of A New Hope, it also creates the plot hole of having captured the rebel's flagship intact. A huge part of ANH is Leia being the Empire's only link to finding the location of and destroying the rebel base. Now you have the flagship along the entire crew, and captain who have all been to Yavin IV to search and interrogate. Honestly the ship should have just been destroyed in combat after transmitting the plans, or if boarded self destructed. At the very least they should have made the rebel base Dantooine in the process of being abandoned to better mesh with Leia's not willing to actively betray the rebellion and giving away an old base instead.

[Vifam7]

13 hours ago, peter said:

I loved it.  It was literally one of the few films I have ever found myself inching forward and sitting on the edge of my seat.  I acknowledge all the quibbles and nitpicks folks seem to have about the film, but I'm okay with them. 

I got what I wanted out of it, to see some really awesome X-wing action, space battles, ground fighting, some pretty awesome Easter eggs and nods to the previous films, and most importantly, I needed to see Vader fukking $hit up.  It was done well, not over the top like in the other prequels, so I'm quite satisfied. 

Totally agree.  And personally, I thought all of the battle scenes and action sequences were exceptionally well staged and choreographed. It had all the feel from the original trilogy yet grittier and better looking. 

This is one of those rare movies that I want to go watch a second time at the theaters and multiple times when it comes out on Blu-ray. 

 

 

[jenius]

1 hour ago, renegadeleader1 said:

The more I think about Vader's fan pandering two minutes of badassness the more I find it's addition pointless, excessive, and continuity breaking.

Not only does the scene not mesh well with how he's portrayed at the begining of A New Hope, it also creates the plot hole of having captured the rebel's flagship intact. A huge part of ANH is Leia being the Empire's only link to finding the location of and destroying the rebel base. Now you have the flagship along the entire crew, and captain who have all been to Yavin IV to search and interrogate. Honestly the ship should have just been destroyed in combat after transmitting the plans, or if boarded self destructed. At the very least they should have made the rebel base Dantooine in the process of being abandoned to better mesh with Leia's not willing to actively betray the rebellion and giving away an old base instead.

I agree, Dantooine would have been a better rebel base to use than Yavin IV and would have jived better... the only reason I could think they didn't go that route was that they wanted to show the characters on the familiar set. I'm not hung up on it though, aren't we shown everyone fleeing the flagship and it's only the poor souls stuck in a corridor that don't make it?

[Mog]

If I'm remembering A New Hope correctly, the only problem with using Dantooine is that it had been abandoned for "quite some time" according the Imperials who relayed the info. to either Tarkin or Vader.

So, using that setting as the Rebel base for Rogue One would have been another continuity issue to gripe about.

Two things we really need to give the film credit for though:

1.  They came up with good, valid reasons for not going full-on planet destroyer with the Death Star laser.

2.  They actually had the stones to show the Rebellion in not exactly the best light.  Whether it was Cassian performing some very morally questionable acts, the spy General basically calling for an assassination, or the leaders of the Rebellion bickering amongst themselves, the movie really sold that the Rebellion proper wasn't a bunch of saints.

[Scyla]

I saw the movie on opening weekend and I'm not a fan. I will probably see it a second time to see if my opinion changes.

I think one of the reasons why I don't like this movie is because I don't like prequels. You see when you do a prequel..

 

...you already know the outcome of the movie. I this case you know that Princess Leia ends up with the plans chased by the Empire. Since you don't hear anything about the heroes who undertook this dangerous mission I went into Rogue One with the assumption that they will all be dead at the end of the movie. 

Which totally happened. So there was no suspense in the movie. I know that the Rebels will succeed and that they will all gonna die. So for me to give a damn about the characters in the movie you need to characterize the hell out of them which didn't happen. So the whole movie I wasn't interested in the characters I knew they gonna succeed. I was bored with the movie.

The last battle was good but It wasn't enough to make a good movie.

A few more bullet points why I didn't enjoyed it:

• Why does Jyn Ersos mother have to die other to hammer home the point that she is an orphan?
• Why was Tarkin that much in the movie? At first I couldn't tell if he was a CGI character or not but the more screen time he got the more uncomfortable I got with the CGI effects. I think Vader could have filled the spot seamlessly without all the CGI issues. For Leia it was better because the scene was so brief but...
• Why was she on the ship in the middle of the battle zone? I don't think it is a good idea to bring one of your best spies/politicians to a suicide mission without any reason for her to be there. It ties up nicely to episode 4 but was nonsensical to me.
• Pointless tentacle rape scene.

I agree with most of the things said in the red letter media videos about Rogue One.

It seems that I'm an outlier with my opinion so I wonder if this changes over time. The look and feel of the movie was exceptionally well done so it is stellar looking but the underlying movie is a badly done fan fiction.

Edited December 29, 2016 by Scyla

[electric indigo]

I suppose you were equally bored by that Apollo 13 movie...?

[sh9000]

Nevermind the sound.

 

[jenius]

It's a Disney film, the mom has to die. 

Leia's involvement may speak to the fact that the battle is impromptu. Remember, the rebels decide not to act... then come together at the last minute in an act of solidarity. Leia may have just been there to discuss the status of the rebellion and the creation of the Death Star as per the conversation with Organa but then found herself in a battle. 

The tentacle monster should have been cut... pretty sure they just wanted to make sure Saw didn't seem sympathetic and support the notion that he's "too militant."

[jvmacross]

The Bor Gullet (was it a creature or a sentient species?) was just an easy way at showing that Saw's methods were a mirror image of imperial methods...so basically the Imperials had their Imperial Probe Droid and the Rebel "extremists" had their mind-reading "thing"....

Besides, what would a Star Wars movie be without some strange creature in it.....

 

TPM......Underwater sea creatures, Tatooine animals, Gungan battle animals

AOTC....Naboo "cows", Arena creatures, Tusken Raider "dogs"

ROTS....more Naboo creatures, Boga from Utapau

ANH.....Banthas, Dewbacks, Dianoga, "womprats" and Rontos in special edition

ESB......Wampa, Tauntaun, Mynocks, Space Slug

ROTJ....frog creature inside/outside Jabba's palace, salacious crumb, Rancor, Sarlacc

TFA.......Rathtars

RO.........Bor Gullet..only watched it once...so not sure if there were other creatures in the background

 

 

 

[Thom]

I can't wait for Rogue Two to come out!

[sketchley]

Saw it yesterday with my son, and all I can say is: wow.  It's been a while since a movie has kept me guessing on how things are going to end up.  I 'primed' myself for RO by watching SW 2 and 3 over the preceding weeks (and NOT watching #4).  So, the movie *may* have been subjectively greater because of that.    Though, that highlighted one of the things that this movie got right: unlike the spic-and-span cleanliness of the PT, this one is as grungy, if not more so, than the OT.

 

Anyhow, I was blown away by some of the on-location shots.  E.g. Vader's palace over the lava flows, the shuttle coming in to land at the beginning over the sand and grass flats.  I don't think we've ever had a SW movie before where the location shooting upstaged the visual effects!

 

The only complaint I have is the first appearance of Tarkin.  I wish it was in a shot that wasn't as dialogue/plot heavy, for as soon as he appeared, it shot my right out of the movie with thoughts of "how did they do that?" and then spending some time being distracted by observing the CG...  I think that his appearance in the film was a good case for getting an actor who looked similar to play the role (like they did in SW 3), and not CG it (there's too much of an uncanny doll effect going on with the CG, IMHO).

[CoryHolmes]

I think I'm the only person in the world whom didn't notice the facial CGI!  I was so taken in by the performance that I just blanked on the CGI and accepted it at face value (pun very much intended! ).

[no3Ljm]

Finally saw this movie yesterday. And all I can say is... Wow! This is how you do a Star Wars movie.

Rogue One made me forget The Force Awaken movie.

 

[kajnrig]

9 hours ago, jvmacross said:

The Bor Gullet (was it a creature or a sentient species?) was just an easy way at showing that Saw's methods were a mirror image of imperial methods...so basically the Imperials had their Imperial Probe Droid and the Rebel "extremists" had their mind-reading "thing"....

I didn't understand Saw. Like, any of him. I didn't understand why he was there, I didn't understand what effect he was supposed to have on either the main plot or other characters, I didn't understand why he was considered an extremist when he did more or less the same level of shady things the rest of the Rebellion did. I guess his... torture? fact-checking? it wasn't really clear why the creature... is supposed to be representative of "extremism," but we already saw Rebels killing their own to preserve the mission and going behind each other's backs and masking an assassination mission as a rescue. How was he an extremist again?

But I think the bigger problem with him is that he, like other aspects of the film, should have been left on the cutting room floor. As he is, he does nothing for the story except deliver the first piece of intel - the pilot - to the Rebellion, a plot contrivance which could have easily been taken care of any number of ways, up to and including having the pilot already with the Rebellion at the start of the film. Rework him as a senior Rebellion operative looking for the pilot who happens upon his runaway adoptive daughter Jyn, and he spends the movie trying to convince her of the cause (which I think is kind of hinted at in the movie, but it does so in a really clumsy fashion). He either dies convincing her to fight for the Rebellion, or he dies with the rest of the crew during the finale.

Agh. Grumble grumble grumble I'm becoming an old sourpuss.

[no3Ljm]

Actually, now I need to hunt down and watch Star Wars Rebels just to understand more about Saw Gerrera.

 

[Dobber]

He was in The Clone Wars series. He hasn't been on Rebels yet.

Chris

[Tking22]

5 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Actually, now I need to hunt down and watch Star Wars Rebels just to understand more about Saw Gerrera.

 

Yeah as Dobber already pointed out, Saw hasn't appeared on Rebels YET, he will appear when the new season starts back up though, since Rebels is still before Rogue One. Saw appeared in the final season of Clone Wars, in a really excellent four episode story arc.

[Roy Focker]

8 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I didn't understand Saw. Like, any of him. I didn't understand why he was there, I didn't understand what effect he was supposed to have on either the main plot or other characters, I didn't understand why he was considered an extremist when he did more or less the same level of shady things the rest of the Rebellion did. I guess his... torture? fact-checking? it wasn't really clear why the creature... is supposed to be representative of "extremism," but we already saw Rebels killing their own to preserve the mission and going behind each other's backs and masking an assassination mission as a rescue. How was he an extremist again?.

To add to this the planet Saw was operating on was a planet whose people we're suppose to feel sad for because their occupied under Imperial martial law.   This is where they show us to look at the evil Empire but they have shown the Rebels are also capable of evil actions.  This planet has Jedi-friendly monks.  The Jedi tried to "take over" the Republic in Episode III and Saw a rebel extremist is based on it.  There's plenty of reasons to believe that the planet was rightfully under martial law.  Without complete knowledge of prior films or an opening crawl to setup things neither side is shown being very good or very bad.   The Imperials are occupying planets and building a super weapon capable of blowing up planets that rebel but they've up against Rebels that are extremist.   If the Rebels are all like Saw's group  or like that Captain Endor then it is possible to believe that the Empire had a legitimate reason to consider making a super weapon to stop them.  

Based on their actions in this movie I think we know the real reason why Han Solo came back to help Luke blow up the death stars.   The Rebels were going to kill him for knowing too much.  

 

[Dobber]

30 minutes ago, Roy Focker said:

Based on their actions in this movie I think we know the real reason why Han Solo came back to help Luke blow up the death stars.   The Rebels were going to kill him for knowing too much.  

 

That's an interesting idea for Han

[Mog]

Saw's the connection to the Erso's.

 

He's the guy Papa Erso contacts to rescue his wife and daughter during the initial scenes of Rogue One.

He clearly has a father-like relationship with Jyn (and is yet another person Jyn harbors resentment for since he "abandoned" her to protect her).

When Papa Erso looks for someone to tell the Death Star's weakness to, he reaches out to Saw.

The Rebels know Saw is super-paranoid, so they know they have to go to extreme lengths to even get an audience with him.  Hence, the reason for them busting out low-level criminal Jyn.

To say Saw should have been left on the cutting room floor shows a complete misunderstanding of his importance and relationship to the Erso family.

Without Saw, there would have been no need for the Rebels to even bring Jyn along in the first place.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Mog

[Kanedas Bike]

Regarding Han, what did he know that the Empire didn't know already?

Yavin? Nope

Possession of Death Star plans? Nope

Obi-Wan? Nope/dead

Luke? Maybe, but he was engaged in the battle to destroy the Death Star and he wasn't considered a secret weapon or ace-in-the-hole, just some kid that helped Leia 

Part of why I've had such a hard time enjoying Rogue One was because it was too dark in the wrong ways. I'm perfectly fine with the Rebel Alliance needing to use some guerilla tactics, but the flat out kill-orders was too much. It sullies what we know of the Alliance from the Original Trilogy. That much more than anything Vader did or didn't do, and actually it was the first time EVER, even as a kid, that I had a sense of fear or "what a badass" from Vader. Just never found him that scary or imposing.

And I actually didn't like the CG characters, human CGI always takes me out of the movie because you can tell the difference between them and their human counterparts.

Rogue One wasn't a bad film by any stretch and it's certainly one of the best Star Wars films, but looking in hindsight I can't say it was better than The Force Awakens (my current #1) but I truly enjoyed the change in tone and more grounded approach within the Star Wars universe. Just wish someone made it off of that really pretty tropical planet.

-b.

[kajnrig]

24 minutes ago, Mog said:

To say Saw should have been left on the cutting room floor shows a complete misunderstanding of his importance and relationship to the Erso family.

Without Saw, there would have been no need for the Rebels to even bring Jyn along in the first place.

To be clear, I didn't misunderstand his importance/relationship to the Erso's; I just thought it was poorly done.

2 minutes ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Part of why I've had such a hard time enjoying Rogue One was because it was too dark in the wrong ways. I'm perfectly fine with the Rebel Alliance needing to use some guerilla tactics, but the flat out kill-orders was too much. It sullies what we know of the Alliance from the Original Trilogy.

Interesting point, and something I felt, too, now that I think about it. On the one hand, I liked the moral ambiguity. But on the other... it's the Empire and the Rebels. Space Nazis and La Resistance. This doesn't feel like the kind of universe to have that kind of "reality" injected into it.

The most I felt about the CGI was that it was an odd decision. It didn't bother me, but it didn't elevate the movie for me, either.

[jvmacross]

10 hours ago, no3Ljm said:

Actually, now I need to hunt down and watch Star Wars Rebels just to understand more about Saw Gerrera.

 

 

That's exactly what Disney wants you to do!

I got both seasons for xmas.....but now apparently you will need to watch season 3 to get the whole picture about Saw and the seeds of the Rebellion...

 

 

 

11 hours ago, kajnrig said:

I didn't understand Saw. Like, any of him. I didn't understand why he was there, I didn't understand what effect he was supposed to have on either the main plot or other characters, I didn't understand why he was considered an extremist when he did more or less the same level of shady things the rest of the Rebellion did. I guess his... torture? fact-checking? it wasn't really clear why the creature... is supposed to be representative of "extremism," but we already saw Rebels killing their own to preserve the mission and going behind each other's backs and masking an assassination mission as a rescue. How was he an extremist again?

But I think the bigger problem with him is that he, like other aspects of the film, should have been left on the cutting room floor. As he is, he does nothing for the story except deliver the first piece of intel - the pilot - to the Rebellion, a plot contrivance which could have easily been taken care of any number of ways, up to and including having the pilot already with the Rebellion at the start of the film. Rework him as a senior Rebellion operative looking for the pilot who happens upon his runaway adoptive daughter Jyn, and he spends the movie trying to convince her of the cause (which I think is kind of hinted at in the movie, but it does so in a really clumsy fashion). He either dies convincing her to fight for the Rebellion, or he dies with the rest of the crew during the finale.

Agh. Grumble grumble grumble I'm becoming an old sourpuss.

 

Guess you'll need to watch Rebels season 3!

[TangledThorns]

I'd say one thing that was lacking for this movie and TFA was their soundtracks. They're good but not good enough for me to buy their albums.

[sketchley]

8 hours ago, Kanedas Bike said:

Rogue One wasn't a bad film by any stretch and it's certainly one of the best Star Wars films, but looking in hindsight I can't say it was better than The Force Awakens (my current #1) but I truly enjoyed the change in tone and more grounded approach within the Star Wars universe. Just wish someone made it off of that really pretty tropical planet.

-b.

 

Hmm... I'm the opposite - in that I think Rogue One is better than The Force Awakens.  Namely because RO dared to do something new, and TFA is essentially a rehash of the OT (or ANH, to be more precise).  Did RO work?  I thought it did.  Others don't.  But that's still alright in my book, because they tried to take things in new directions and look at other traditional elements from new perspectives.

Now the one thing that I dislike about both RO and TFA is that they've gone and ruined the prequel trilogy!  Those films are nigh unwatchable now.  I guess what I'm trying to say is I really like what they're doing in these new films with characterization and letting the actors flex their acting muscles. 

 

Edit:  although it wasn't directly shown or stated, I think a bunch of the Imperial forces made it off the planet.  Why else would they only shoot off the top radar antenna in their attack?  Stop the transmissions, and giving those on the ground a chance to escape.  The higher-ups would definitely have access to shuttle craft, TIE Strikers and so on.  Perks of rank, I guess.

 

Edited December 31, 2016 by sketchley
reasons. always asking for reasons: fixes, missing point

[jvmacross]

1. ESB

2. ANH

3. ROTJ

4. ROTS

5. RO

6. TFA

7. AOTC

8. TPM

[Roy Focker]

Or...

1. ESB

2. ANH

3. ROTJ/TFA

Nothing else counts.

[no3Ljm]

2 hours ago, jvmacross said:

1. ESB

2. ANH

3. ROTJ

4. ROTS

5. RO

6. TFA

7. AOTC

8. TPM

We're almost the same JVM. I just need to move AOTC above TFA. And all is right in the world.

 

[myk]

5 minutes ago, no3Ljm said:

We're almost the same JVM. I just need to move AOTC above TFA. And all is right in the world.

 

I'm almost the same as you guys, just put TFA at #8 and TPM at #7...

[kajnrig]

Saw it again earlier tonight at the behest of the nephews. It wasn't quite so rough this time around because I didn't have to think so much about it, but the second viewing reminded me that there was one scene that absolutely tanked the film for me:

 

When Jyn sees the hologram of her father soliloquizing to her. Up until then, I'm actually quite down with most everything that's going on; characters are established (except the pilot, whose actor had the unenviable task of getting blood from a stone) and the movie sets up a bunch of perfectly serviceable plot lines. But then Jyn meets Saw and he leads her to a hologram where 1) a character we haven't seen since the beginning of the movie explains their entire story in exposition form, and 2) the principal emotional conflict of the film is resolved, on both sides, completely independent of each other. This was one of the few unabashedly terrible scenes in the film, and it colors everything in the film after that.

EDIT: Things I really liked the second time around:

- That Hammerhead maneuver.

- My nephews freaked out when they saw Ip Man in a Star Wars movie.

- The on-location/physical sets are really slick.

- The X-Wings taking off in the rain effects. The rain swirling around the jet exhaust especially.

- The first shot of the Star Destroyer was remarkably amateurish. It doesn't look like a space ship in space, it looks like a scale model in stark lighting.

My ranking:

- EST

- ANH

- RotJ

- TPM (because Darth Maul, and only because Darth Maul)

- TFA

- RO

-

-

-

...several more -'s later...

- RotS

- AotC

Edited December 31, 2016 by kajnrig

[sh9000]

Kind of cool to see the ending of R1 and the beginning of ANH for the first time together.