Evolution Toy - VF-2SS Valkyrie I 《MACROSS II ~LOVERS AGAIN~&#1

[technoblue]

So are you saying to let the first MacII releases pass and wait for someone else to take a stab after learning from Evolution's mistakes? 'Cause the Yamato V1 VF-1 and the Bandai DX V1 VF-25 didn't get good with the later releases... they got good when the company studied their failures a few years later and released an entirely new toy. Also, both those toys cost considerably less than this toy's MSRP which at least helped lower expectations a little bit. I dunno, I know people have been starving for anything MacII so I'm glad they're getting SOMETHING but... they have an uphill battle from what we've seen so far. I'm hoping they win me over with some pretty large revisions in the months to come.

Well...I agree with valhary. I think the criticism for Evolution's prototype VF-2SS is a little heavy handed. And maybe it is heavy handed because fans of Macross toys have already dealth with the V1/V2 shenanigans with Bandai and Yamato? Will fans have the patience to let a third-party contender catch up and survive similar growing pains? I don't know. Part of me wants Evolution to get it right the first time. But part of me also wants to support Evolution in their effort regardless, because I'm not sure that we'll see anyone else take on Macross II anytime soon.

[Gakken85]

I'm not going to spend $250 bucks to take one for the team, no.

If you want that much cash you need to produce a killer product like Sentinel has been doing.

If you can't be bothered to make it right, don't do it.

[troyness]

Thanks Tochiro & Save for the scoop!!

Awesome that it's a 1/60 transforming toy with diecast!

Going by the lineart provided on the previous page, the legs are very thin and head is slightly big.

Interested in the development of this prototype.

....but it does look like a model kit that has upgraded to a 1/60 toy.

[Firefox]

Good initiation. Finally decided to something about Macross II. The product look like it's made out of Bandai old model. For that price, I would expect more like Bandai DX kind of product if not Arcadia standard.

[technoblue]

I'm not going to spend $250 bucks to take one for the team, no.

If you want that much cash you need to produce a killer product like Sentinel has been doing.

If you can't be bothered to make it right, don't do it.

Fair enough. But I hope no one who pre-orders has to pay $250US in their own currency. That assumes substantial inflation and no pre-order discounts.

I'm not trying to force sides. People are free to like it or to pass on it for whatever reason that suits them. Like DarrinG and no3ljm, I also bought the Orguss that MegaHouse released. Similar pricing and mold complaints were brought up in that thread, but MegaHouse delivered a good product with good quality. Those looking for a deal on it may have to wait a while: it is a niche product and it has a high price tag. And I agree that this is becoming more of a common thing for this hobby, especially when one is searching for older SDF Macross merchandise.

I don't know what Evolution has in store for us with the VF-2SS. It's exciting and the prototype is promising, but the quality is up in the air until people actually have it in hand. And that won't happen for a while yet. I stand by what I've written so far. There's more for me to like than to criticize.

[xrentonx]

Agh...so torn. They need to get rid of those glaring hinges somehow. More to like, I agree...but damn

Edited April 16, 2015 by xrentonx

[dodiano]

Fair enough. But I hope no one who pre-orders has to pay $250US in their own currency. That assumes substantial inflation and no pre-order discounts.

I'm not trying to force sides. People are free to like it or to pass on it for whatever reason that suits them. Like DarrinG and no3ljm, I also bought the Orguss that MegaHouse released. Similar pricing and mold complaints were brought up in that thread, but MegaHouse delivered a good product with good quality. Those looking for a deal on it may have to wait a while: it is a niche product and it has a high price tag. And I agree that this is becoming more of a common thing for this hobby, especially when one is searching for older SDF Macross merchandise.

I don't know what Evolution has in store for us with the VF-2SS. It's exciting and the prototype is promising, but the quality is up in the air until people actually have it in hand. And that won't happen for a while yet. I stand by what I've written so far. There's more for me to like than to criticize.

Very well said! Totally agree with you!

[Mr March]

I think technoblue is pretty much on the money, taking a more reasonable and measured response to what this new toy actually is.

The internet is plagued by melodramatic opinions when most often the truth on any given topic is somewhere in the unexciting middle of the extremes. I think in the case of Evolution Toys 1/60 VF-2SS Valkyrie II toy the reality is that it's promising, but not able to meet expectations (especially for that current price point). This toy doesn't appear as yet to be the failure critics want it to be nor can the gushing fans cover up it's obvious failings. That comfortable middle ground is probably what irritates many folks, making it difficult to avoid being upset about the toy's apparent mediocrity.

Personally, I will say that $250 is definitely far too much money to spend on a "first attempt" style product. This isn't Yamato's first 1/60 scale from back in the day. I paid less for each of my Arcadia 1/60 VF-1 Valkyrie and the YF-19, both of which IMO are about as top notch as you can get for transformable Macross toys. The problem I can see is I don't think there will be another "attempt". The VF-2SS is just not popular enough a product for toy makers that they can spend decades and multiple product generations to get it right. I suspect this will be like Yamato's VF-4 Lightning, becoming the only modern version of this craft that we're ever likely to get.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Mr March

[ChaoticYeti]

I'm not going to spend $250 bucks to take one for the team, no.

If you want that much cash you need to produce a killer product like Sentinel has been doing.

If you can't be bothered to make it right, don't do it.

Gonna have to agree. I like that it is being made, but it looks janky for $250. They are getting slack because there isn't anything to compare it to. Collectors will buy it because it is what is available.

[no3Ljm]

Fair enough. But I hope no one who pre-orders has to pay $250US in their own currency. That assumes substantial inflation and no pre-order discounts.

I'm not trying to force sides. People are free to like it or to pass on it for whatever reason that suits them. Like DarrinG and no3ljm, I also bought the Orguss that MegaHouse released. Similar pricing and mold complaints were brought up in that thread, but MegaHouse delivered a good product with good quality. Those looking for a deal on it may have to wait a while: it is a niche product and it has a high price tag. And I agree that this is becoming more of a common thing for this hobby, especially when one is searching for older SDF Macross merchandise.

I don't know what Evolution has in store for us with the VF-2SS. It's exciting and the prototype is promising, but the quality is up in the air until people actually have it in hand. And that won't happen for a while yet. I stand by what I've written so far. There's more for me to like than to criticize.

I agree technoblue. Like you said, the Megahouse Orguss has some problems and also expensive. And yet they delivered a good quality product inspite of some flaws. And the pricing nowaways, I think that's standard now. People are still gonna buy no matter how cheap and expensive the hobby is. Let's face it, there's no 2 to 3 companies that's making the same product at the same time. People doesn't have a choice. What's available out there is the only thing that we're going to get. Right now, we really can't say anything just by basing it on the picture. We see this, we see that. We notice this, and we notice that. Probably what's Evolution is doing here is give us a good looking fighter and at the same time a good looking battroid as well. In a world of transforming toys, we're not going to get a 'perfect' one even if we pay a lot of money. There's always going to be a 'limit'. Right now, let's just wait and see what the other 2 big guns wouldn't touch. Let's give EvoToys a chance.

I think technoblue is pretty much on the money, taking a more reasonable and measured response to what this new toy actually is.

The internet is plagued by melodramatic opinions when most often the truth on any given topic is somewhere in the unexciting middle of the extremes. I think in the case of Evolution Toys 1/60 VF-2SS Valkyrie II toy the reality is that it's promising, but not able to meet expectations (especially for that current price point). This toy doesn't appear as yet to be the failure critics want it to be nor can the gushing fans cover up it's obvious failings. That comfortable middle ground is probably what irritates many folks, making it difficult to avoid being upset about the toy's apparent mediocrity.

Personally, I will say that $250 is definitely far too much money to spend on a "first attempt" style product. This isn't Yamato's first 1/60 scale from back in the day. I paid less for each of my Arcadia 1/60 VF-1 Valkyrie and the YF-19, both of which IMO are about as top notch as you can get for transformable Macross toys. The problem I can see is I don't think there will be another "attempt". The VF-2SS is just not popular enough a product for toy makers that they can spend decades and multiple product generations to get it right. I suspect this will be like Yamato's VF-4 Lightning, becoming the only modern version of this craft that we're ever likely to get.

Gonna have to agree. I like that it is being made, but it looks janky for $250. They are getting slack because there isn't anything to compare it to. Collectors will buy it because it is what is available.

I agree also, Mr. March and ChaoticYeti. This is probably the only VF-2SS in 1/60 scale that we're going to get. And I'm happy that they're going to put some diecast in it. Not a big fan of MacrossII, but I'm definitely going to get this. It's 1J's color. And besides, in case people doesn't like it, sell it after. Right?

But make sure you 'swoosh' it around first. It might change your mind after...

[moy]

wow there are alot of haters out there but when it comes macross 2 the best looking macross toy that will be made with super parts i hope?

[chyll2]

wow there are alot of haters out there but when it comes macross 2 the best looking macross toy that will be made with super parts i hope?

Most of the people that are replying are REALLY INTERESTED in macross 2. they love it, what they hate is on how the initial prototype looks like and on how it scale on the asking price of 25,000 yen.

Some people felt that they are forced to buy an overpriced product because the subject matter (macross 2) is a very niche product that maybe yamato and arcardia will never touch.

[no3Ljm]

Most of the people that are replying are REALLY INTERESTED in macross 2. they love it, what they hate is on how the initial prototype looks like and on how it scale on the asking price of 25,000 yen.

Some people felt that they are forced to buy an overpriced product because the subject matter (macross 2) is a very niche product that maybe yamato and arcardia will never touch.

That's true.

[EXO]

Die cast doesn't really entice me... a few necessary pieces that especially thin or small maybe but everytime I see major pieces in die cast in transformable toys now, it usually doesn't bode well.

Also in today's market where unlicensed "third parties" are out designing some official pieces, you'd really expect something that cost 25,000Y to be at the top of their game. You can't just cheer outright as much as you can't just start hating out of the gate... but criticism is natural.

[Mommar]

Die cast doesn't really entice me... a few necessary pieces that especially thin or small maybe but everytime I see major pieces in die cast in transformable toys now, it usually doesn't bode well.

Also in today's market where unlicensed "third parties" are out designing some official pieces, you'd really expect something that cost 25,000Y to be at the top of their game. You can't just cheer outright as much as you can't just start hating out of the gate... but criticism is natural.

I agree here.

Given that the likelihood of another 1/60 2SS toy being made is essentially 0% anyone of us who are fans of the design are going to nitpick it because it HAS to be perfect. Think about how many people backed out on the 0D just because the color was darker than they liked. That's just the color. This thing has mold issues, and given that a HUGE portion of the 2SS fanbase talk about how great the "lines" are on the design (barring some necessary changes because of reality) it really has to be perfect to make them happy. Plus, it's not a $120 V1 proposition. $300 for the beta version won't cut it. I will still probably get one because this will be it for the 2SS, I believe, but that doesn't mean I won't have criticisms that I won't voice.

[TheLoneWolf]

If you can't be bothered to make it right, don't do it.

It's a good thing Yamato never believed in that, or else they never would've persevered through the 1/72 YF-19 v1 (which was a debacle, even by the lowly standards of the early 2000's).

[anime52k8]

well holly frakking crap guys

I'm too lazy to read through 5 pages already, but I'm excited.

Edited April 16, 2015 by anime52k8

[Gakken85]

It's a good thing Yamato never believed in that, or else they never would've persevered through the 1/72 YF-19 v1 (which was a debacle, even by the lowly standards of the early 2000's).

At the time it wasn't a bad effort. This - in this time - isn't a great effort.

[mechaninac]

Undeniably, the end product has ZERO chance to live up to people's expectations of what a 1/60 VF-2SS toy should be in terms of fidelity to the line-art vs. toy designer interpretation, engineering and execution, level of detail and articulation, or even overall quality. It's the nature of the beast, specially for something that's been smoldering in the imaginations of so many fans of the Valkyrie II for so long; there's no pleasing everyone, or even most.

There are several areas in which the shown prototype falls short of greatness (it's no VF-4G, but that was released as a last hurrah of a dying company with years of experience designing and engineering transforming Macross mecha). There is certainly vast room for improvement:

• slightly beefier lower legs with larger landing gear doors (something closer to the proportions of the 1/100 kit by Bandai),
• more definition to the upper leg intakes -- they look too small in proportion to the rest of the legs,
• cleaner flow from forward nose to shield hump to upper fuselage back (the prototype likely has a continuous shell thickness that does not do the area any favors, necessitating the odd shape for clearance),
• the aforementioned clunky pylons to which the boosters/ramjet pods are mounted and how they "sit",
• those damned tabs in a most visually obtrusive location... Bandai's solution (side mounted hooks) for the kit worked fine and were innofensive -- if they're still there come release, I just might cut them off and use small, strong neodynium magnets to lock the chest and back carapaces together in fighter mode,
• the shape of the leg fins,
• etc.

The thing is that, given the depicted stage of the design progress, even if the model shown is a painted SLA mock-up, it is near completion, so I doubt that we'll see many, if any, improvements over what's been shown... chances are that, if steel is not being cut for the tooling, they're about to start.

All that being said, and despite the high MSRP, I'm in for one piece (it's a VF-2SS after all, so I have to get one unless the end product, if/when shown prior to release, ends up looking far worse than what we've seen at this stage); my impressions of the toy, once I have it in hand, will determine if Evolution Toy will get more of my money for probable further releases.

So what do people think the first version will be, Nexx's or Silvie's?

Edited April 17, 2015 by mechaninac

[treatment]

No SAP, No Buy!

Coz even colored/photochopped, it still looks utterly derpy without the SAP...

Also, ET should've done the Metal Siren first.

That way, they can make the Metal Siren as ugly as sin (even more than it already is) and then learn stuff properly before doing the VF2SS...

[happy_spike]

No SAP, No Buy!

Coz even colored/photochopped, it still looks utterly derpy without the SAP...

Also, ET should've done the Metal Siren first.

That way, they can make the Metal Siren as ugly as sin (even more than it already is) and then learn stuff properly before doing the VF2SS...

I disagree, i would rather them try something else first, and then release the siren with changes and fixes in mind. Having said that, I really want this 2ss to be awesome. Hopefully they adjust this prototype with the feedback in mind

[Chronocidal]

I'm admittedly not a huge fan of the design, but I think the single biggest detractor is that funky pod hinge. The hunched spine is also a bit off-putting, but if I hadn't seen the design and lineart before, I probably wouldn't think it's so bad. Maybe on the same level as YF-19 gullet, and lots of people bought that anyway.

What I wonder is what would make that hinge work better. The hinge is flush with the backplate in fighter, but it needs to extend or slide around the pod when they rotate. The current shape of the piece makes it look not even halfway finished though.

[jvmacross]

So what do people think the first version will be, Nexx's or Silvie's?

Silvie

[valhary]

both are great warriors but I prefer blue stripes

[Ignacio Ocamica]

WelI I hope they get around to do the VF-2JA Icarus.

[xrentonx]

Silvie is guaranteed first. All the old promo material I saw always had the red stripes.

[TheLoneWolf]

At the time it wasn't a bad effort.

If you had gone back in time and told that to the people who had broken tabs, paint scratches, missing accessories, and loose screws, that would've come off as just as nonsensical as your initial post.

[505thAirborne]

WelI I hope they get around to do the VF-2JA Icarus.

That would be cool!

[Gakken85]

If you had gone back in time and told that to the people who had broken tabs, paint scratches, missing accessories, and loose screws, that would've come off as just as nonsensical as your initial post.

Bad QA does not equal a bad design. The 1/72's were still a step up from the chunky monkeys of their day. They were closer to the line art, had better transformation, and just looked better. They also happened to have bad QA.

This release may have bad QA as well, but the design is still poorly proportioned and underdeveloped.

I'm not sure what's so nonsensical about understanding that...

[McFly!!]

Agree with your pov, jenius. I was thinking the same thing. I don't want to be stuck with the equivalent of a v1 Yammie VF-1 down the road. F mode is the real draw for me with this.

[wmkjr]

This thing has to include the SAP as I thought the railgun was stored in the arm or does it show it mounted without the SAP?

[jvmacross]

I wonder if Evolution Toys is planning on unveiling the SAP with the next update? Will they include it....or sell it separately? Either way, they definitely have to be thinking of making one right? RIGHT?!?!

[Mommar]

Agree with your pov, jenius. I was thinking the same thing. I don't want to be stuck with the equivalent of a v1 Yammie VF-1 down the road. F mode is the real draw for me with this.

So as an F mode guy does the pic of fighter mode there do it for you?

[zzgundam010]

very interested but the prototype does not look that good. hopefully the real thing will be better.

[Silverstreak]

Now that the initial excitement is wearing off, I don't think I like what I see. Maybe coloured pics will change my mind but so far it's definitley not worth the asking price. Maybe if it had the SAP included. Maybe.