Evolution Toy - VF-2SS Valkyrie I 《MACROSS II ~LOVERS AGAIN~&#1

[jvmacross]

Any input on how the transformation works is appreciated.

Not sure if someone may have posted on one of the earlier pages of this thread...but the sequence is shown on a few sources, such as the Macross II Entertainment Bible.....

The above images were taken from this site....whose owner I would think must be in hog heaven at the prospect of a 1/60 VF-2SS....but then again....

http://valkyrie2.cloud-line.com/valkyrie/

[spanner]

gotta love the detail in the line art! very cool! thanks for posting that JVM!

[Bolt]

Great link!!

Cheers!

[Bobby]

http://valkyrie2.cloud-line.com/valkyrie/

Yes, I've spoken to him on a few occasions and he's placed his pre-orders (yes...with an "s") and featured it in his blog in July --> http://valkyrie.cloud-line.com/blog/2015/07/22247/

Edited October 19, 2015 by Bobby

[no3Ljm]

Not sure if someone may have posted on one of the earlier pages of this thread...but the sequence is shown on a few sources, such as the Macross II Entertainment Bible.....

The above images were taken from this site....whose owner I would think must be in hog heaven at the prospect of a 1/60 VF-2SS....but then again....

http://valkyrie2.cloud-line.com/valkyrie/

Actually, I accidentally found some of the images last night via Google. And I studied how the VF-2SS transforms. Somehow, ET didn't copy the hinge-folding-swinging-metal-joint from the line art (Top Right image in the Fighter to Battroid shcematics and in the middle image in the Fighter to Gerwalk schematics). As far as I can tell based on this lineart, the pelvic joint supposed to have hinge mechanism that hides under the intake found under the chest. The chest slides forward in order for the hinge joint to fold for Gerwalk mode and slide back in. By doing that, the thigh intake shouldn't be under the chest like the ET toy have it but for potruding like in the line art. In Fighter mode, the shoulder should be more pushed back in towards the back area of the body. I can't tell why ET's version have more back bulkier underneath and why wing glove area is thicker. It's better if they design the shoulder joint with more on the push-in/pull-out design so that it will sit flush under the back area. I'm guessing that's the best thing that they can do to imitate the transformation. And for sure doing the lineart will be more complicated as is. The other mecha I could think of having the same underneath arm and leg placement configuration is the Z Gundam in Wave Rider form and comparing it to the Master Grade transformation. But not sure though if that can be applicable on the VF-2SS since the MG Z Gundam transformation has folding pelvic area instead of swinging bar.

I'm stll curious though to have this in-hand so I can see it more. I wish they will also release new photos of the transformation or post videos like Bandai did on their previous DX releases.

[jvmacross]

ET needs to release pics of the "completed" SAP CAD drawings....but maybe they are waiting for sometime closer to release date....still, I think it is a bone-headed move to have not just released this as a VF-2SS w/SAP bundle first......I'm still hoping that a low production number will mean sell-out for the VF-2SS Silvie, which will bring on the Nexx VF-2SS w/SAP......just a fool's hope....but still a hope....

Edited October 19, 2015 by jvmacross

[kajnrig]

Quick question: SAP = ???

[VF5SS]

I think the Achilles's hip of the VF-2SS is how the legs are attached to thin hinges on the end of tiny swing bars.

[aceoftherebellion]

Pretty much that exactly, yeah. If you tried to actually copy that mechanism in a real 3D space toy, the parts would be so thin and fragile the thing would probably self detonate on first transformation, and Bandai and Yamato have already given us toys with that gimmick, we sure don't need another one. The other thing is, if you look at the undercarriage in these transformation bits, there's a ton of negative space on the underside of the Fighter mode. It's represented by pretty random transformation parts greebles in the lineart, but lets talk real here for a second, that's artistic shorthand for 'there's nothing really here, just fill it with junk so it looks good', and that's not something you can properly emulate on an actual 3D toy either. All that 'tiny swing-bars and pistons' junk has to be consolidated into a real world swingbar that isn't going to snap in half and can actually hold the weight of whatever it's meant to move, which in this case, is the whole damn thing, (those being the hips). The 2SS was never designed as an actual 3D thing, unlike every Kowamori design ever, and the only toy of it ever made to date was a parts-former. I'm willing to cut ET a whole ton of slack when it comes to making this work in a physical space.

[sh9000]

Pretty much this.

[no3Ljm]

Pretty much that exactly, yeah. If you tried to actually copy that mechanism in a real 3D space toy, the parts would be so thin and fragile the thing would probably self detonate on first transformation, and Bandai and Yamato have already given us toys with that gimmick, we sure don't need another one. The other thing is, if you look at the undercarriage in these transformation bits, there's a ton of negative space on the underside of the Fighter mode. It's represented by pretty random transformation parts greebles in the lineart, but lets talk real here for a second, that's artistic shorthand for 'there's nothing really here, just fill it with junk so it looks good', and that's not something you can properly emulate on an actual 3D toy either. All that 'tiny swing-bars and pistons' junk has to be consolidated into a real world swingbar that isn't going to snap in half and can actually hold the weight of whatever it's meant to move, which in this case, is the whole damn thing, (those being the hips). The 2SS was never designed as an actual 3D thing, unlike every Kowamori design ever, and the only toy of it ever made to date was a parts-former. I'm willing to cut ET a whole ton of slack when it comes to making this work in a physical space.

That's why I'm going to buy one to support them. And who knows later on, they decide to release the SAP unit on its own. That would be something.

[no3Ljm]

Quick question: SAP = ???

Super Armed Pack

http://www.macross2.net/m3/macross2/vf-2ss-sap.htm

[aceoftherebellion]

Hrm. Looking at those transformation linearts, that looks closer to what we're getting here. It makes me think ET followed these diagrams more closely than the animation or the 'base' lineart. Interesting!

[Scyla]

Not sure if someone may have posted on one of the earlier pages of this thread...but the sequence is shown on a few sources, such as the Macross II Entertainment Bible.....

*snip*

The above images were taken from this site....whose owner I would think must be in hog heaven at the prospect of a 1/60 VF-2SS....but then again....

http://valkyrie2.cloud-line.com/valkyrie/

Thanks for the images. If I'm interpreting the images correctly thant there are small struts simillar to the VF-0 that should bring the legs forward. In addtion there are two hinges that bring the legs forward into position under the secondary intakes. I agree with Veef that the concept is probably to fragile for a toy. However the swing bars in the ET one look also very small.

Maybe it would have been better to derive from the original design. I was thinking of a mechanism similar to the crotch on the VF-25 toys. On the VF-2SS the whole section with the small fin on the underside could flip 180 degrees so that the hip rotation axis sits behind the nosecone. It wouldn't be line art accurate but I think the benefits would have been a clean underside in Fighter-Mode. In Battroid-Mode it wouldn't be showing since this part is covered by the wings.

For the hip transformation to Gerwalk-Mode you could create an extending joint that brings the intakes down and than slide inside the intakes on an L-shaped track to bring them under the secondary intakes. This would probably result in a Fighter that is too bulky compared to the line art but I think the overall aesthetic would benefit from a bit more bulk.

What do you think?

[aceoftherebellion]

Yeah, it works using a strut that itself actually hinges outward, like a traditional Takatoku swing-bar with an extra accordion joint. The sort of thing that would never, ever work in the real world. Using thicker struts with a workaround jointing method seems as good a method as any to duplicate that without really changing the actual design of the fighter. Lineart accuracy being the prime gospel around here, I think anything that deviated further would just result in even more complaining, no matter what effect it might have. The fact is, as we can see from the lineart here, the 2SS doesn't have a clean underside, period. It's hard to tell exactly what they did to enginer this without having one in hand, but given the unpossible nature of the 2SS's transformation from the get-go, the actual transformation scheme is probably about as good as it's going to get.

I'll agree that some parts could stand to be a little thicker, but it does seem to adhere about as closely to the original lineart as the majority of other contemporary 60 scaled valkyries (not one of which is actually flawless) so the rest is a matter of nit-picking. Naturally, that being the official passtime of Macross-World, we're in good company here.

I think at this point, the only remaining minor disappointment for me is the lack of surface details. It's pretty much exactly what's in the lineart in terms of panel lines and nothing more, which is a shame. Acceptable, IMO, but could be better.

[kajnrig]

Does anyone have screencaps of the 2SS in action? Getting a look at the animation shortcuts taken might provide a basis for improving that wide open underside...

[aceoftherebellion]

It's not that easy to get a clear screengrab, but it's consistantly animated with no allowances for transformation whatsoever. Just intakes and the classic head-between-my-legs turret, and otherwise plain and solid, which couldn't function for transformation and also contredicts the above transformation spec lineart. Of course, this being the old days of cel-animation, that's about to be expected, and isn't really different from the animated depictions of any other valkyrie, all of which rely on anime-magic to transform.

EDIT: Actually, scratch that, it also uses the old 'just make anything not visible solid black for shadow' shortcut, which pretty much means... yeah, hollow.

Edited October 25, 2015 by aceoftherebellion

[Mommar]

Given that making the shoulder mechanism for the 2SS work is super tricky, I think both the VF-4 and VF-19Advance are proof Arcadia or Bandai could make it work. Just look at the basic things they aren't getting right on thos toy. Giant, ugly hinges sticking out everywhere. Something Yamato figured out how to fix on the VF-4 and further implemented on the VF-0 releases. They were mever going to get the complex parts of the 2SS correct if they were foing to so easily mess up the easy parts.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Mommar

[Mr March]

There are some official schematics that do show the bottom of the VF-2SS Valkyrie II in fighter mode (with the SAP attached).

[sharky]

Given that making the shoulder mechanism for the 2SS work is super tricky, I think both the VF-4 and VF-19Advance are proof Arcadia or Bandai could make it work. Just look at the basic things they aren't getting right on thos toy. Giant, ugly hinges sticking out everywhere. Something Yamato figured out how to fix on the VF-4 and further implemented on the VF-0 releases. They were mever going to get the complex parts of the 2SS correct if they were foing to so easily mess up the easy parts.

Given the recent news in the Hi-Metal R line we just may find out how Bandai will do the vf-4 and vf-2ss. I am curious to know as well.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

There's no 1/100 VF-2SS from bandai, people are confusing the animenewsnetwork article.

[sharky]

So where did that info come from? They made it up? It seems nothing is confirmed, but it was mentioned as a possibility according to the article.

[Ignacio Ocamica]

It was in the title but as additional info to the giant SDF-1. The title from the article says "also" and provides links and info from Macross II, Flashback and Zero. People are assuming bandai is making HI metals on 1/100 scale.

[technoblue]

In other words, this is a debate of semantics (the worst of all debates). The VF-4, VF-2SS, and VF-0A are only teased. My guess is that the author pulled that info from some part of the slide presentation that is floating around in the forum: the one where Bandai is polling which 1/100 release to do next. Note that the Regult, Gulag, and VF-1S in the list all have release dates.

Edited October 29, 2015 by technoblue

[Ignacio Ocamica]

Yes, I'd say only the 1/100 VF-1S, Glaug, Regult, VT-1, VE-1, destroids and MK-II Monster Hi-Metals are confirmed.

[ArchieNov]

Now that it was teased that Bandai may be making a VF-2SS with SAP as part of the Hi-Metal R line, will more people be dropping their preorders of this one since it might no longer be "the only VF-2SS toy they can get".

[Sandman]

The interesting part of the article is when it states "VF-2SS Valkyrie II (Nexx and Silvie with SAP) ". As far as i know ET has not announced a Nexx or SAP release.

That article blew my mind until i looked at it more closely.

[sharky]

Now that it was teased that Bandai may be making a VF-2SS with SAP as part of the Hi-Metal R line, will more people be dropping their preorders of this one since it might no longer be "the only VF-2SS toy they can get".

I dropped my preorder before this tease. I mean it was teased before with the vf100 line, but Bandai seems to be doing it right this time. There seems to be strong support for the HMR line. So, maybe, it will eventually lead to a VF-2SS someday.

[no3Ljm]

Still gonna keep my PO. I want my toy Valks BIG.

[sharky]

Still gonna keep my PO. I want my toy Valks BIG.

I know I'm still keeping my large scale versions of the HMR valks. I generally never sell any Macross, Gunbuster, or Lego toys. That has really been my collecting focus for years. The problem is there so much other cool stuff that comes up that steers me away from my dark master that is Macross.

Edited October 29, 2015 by sharky

[jvmacross]

Still in.

And if it happens, will also get the HMR version.

[no3Ljm]

I know I'm still keeping my large scale versions of the HMR valks. I generally never sell any Macross, Gunbuster, or Lego toys. That has really been my collecting focus for years. The problem is there so much other cool stuff that comes up that steers me away from my dark master that is Macross.

That's true. I'm excited but I don't want to put my hopes up very high. I'll rethink about everything when the date of PO is revealed. But I'm glad I'm not into the HMR line. But if ever there's going to be a VF-4G and VF-2SS, I might grab one of those.

Still in.

And if it happens, will also get the HMR version.

^ This.

[technoblue]

I'm also in until the very end.

Or maybe I should explain my comments from the HM-R thread: Although it's tempting to go tiny, I think variety is a good thing. Besides, I really want to see this in person.

[jvmacross]

I'm also in until the very end.

[aceoftherebellion]

The entire point to me is to have it all in the same scale. If I was okay mixing scales I'd have long since painted the Bandai kit and put it in my Macross display. It's 1/60 or nothing, so I'm still all in on this.