Loop Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 If anything put in a pre-order at HLJ, if you don't want it, remove it from your orders just to be safe. Quote
Ignacio Ocamica Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 That's what I did. If I'm not convinced I'll cancel my HLJ preorder. Quote
UN Spacy Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 Is Adrian going to meet with the ET designers to get some progress/updates? Quote
Valkyrie addict Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 If this things turns out bad and everyone cancels their preorders HLJ gonna change their policies after this. Quote
anime52k8 Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 If this things turns out bad and everyone cancels their preorders HLJ gonna change their policies after this. I highly doubt that. Even if literally everyone did cancel their preorders it wouldn't be a big enough deal to really hurt them. Quote
Bobby Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 wow...granbeetle_san practically predicted the future Quote
Loop Posted July 26, 2015 Posted July 26, 2015 wow...granbeetle_san practically predicted the future Sorta, he mentioned Yamato, but they were dead by his prediction date. Also the one we are getting is from Evolution toys. Quote
Plasticgoose Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I know the podcast had a rant about landing gears, but what is up with the landing gears? They look cheap and I hope they are just place holders for something that looks more robust. From the pictures they look like grey molded twigs; no rolling rubber wheels or any detail. Just molded static plastic gear. Still I pre-ordered. Would not be surprised if thing does not do well, it would end up on a black friday HLJ sale. I remember a few years back that happened with some of the Yamato and even Arcadia models. Quote
PsYcHoDyNaMiX Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I too have a pre with HLJ and I would like to own a VF-2SS, but there are way too many things on this version that irk me. I really don't want to list them because I think it'll just make me hate it more. Ahhh what the heck... it'll be good for reference to see if they change any of this. Please feel free to add anything if I've missed it. Nose cone: is it suppose to be interchangeable? Please don't tell me it's for a sensor, lol. Why did they decide to put the seam right there and not further up/back where there is an actual seam line in the design? The elbows: horrible implementation. The upper bicep is pretty much sitting on a block that's screwed into the forearm. Not to mention the joint in the middle of the bicep. The support bars for the thrusters: there really wasn't any other way to do this? The sliding mechanism was brought up on an earlier post and I'm glad to see its there, but those bars . The hands: too blocky for no reason. It looks like the four fingers have a joint at the knuckle, but it seems like there's no segmentation/separation between the individual fingers. Tabs on the top of the chest (in battroid mode): do the tabs really have to be that big and they couldn't use a better locking mechanism? Honestly with a release date set for near the end of this year I don't think they will be changing much of it and those displays look like the company is set to go into production. Just like everyone else I'll cancel if the final product doesn't look any better. Quote
valhary Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) I had not realized the holes of the leg because in the photoshop pictures were eliminated so all the people that want the SAP can be happy Edited July 27, 2015 by valhary Quote
mechaninac Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 I had not realized the holes of the leg because in the photoshop pictures were eliminated so all the people that want the SAP can be happy Those slots are indeed very suggestive of the SAP being released in the future. However, if 2SS ends up not selling well enough to warrant production of this most important and iconic accessory, I'll have to resort to plan B... Quote
Kurisama Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 You do realize that the wings rotate on the z-axis where it meets the fuselage, not just rotate on the X-axis, which your peg implies? Quote
mechaninac Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) You do realize that the wings rotate on the z-axis where it meets the fuselage, not just rotate on the X-axis, which your peg implies? There is an extra piece that the peg inserts into that allows for the wings to tilt; it just hasn't been modeled, yet. This 3D model, something I started and dropped over 3 years ago, is entirely based off Bandai's 1/100 kit, and has the exact same basic components and parts breakdown, with very little alterations other than the combining of parts (Ex.: The PBC "lance" is one piece instead of 2) and/or added bits (Ex.: The flip-down face shield mounts to a C-bracket that is inserted between locating rails built into the head shroud). I actually built some of the parts (the lance, PBC emitter housing, targeting sensor - the white piece with the wing antenna opposite the PBC, the shroud, and face shield and its bracket on my company's SLA250 machine, scaled up to 1/60 of course... the end results are huge (the lance grows from 117.5mm to an impressive 195.8mm in length, and when you attach it to the emitter housing... Wow!). Edited July 27, 2015 by mechaninac Quote
treatment Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Hmmm Actually looks kinda boss in the grey proto: http://ameblo.jp/digitamin/image-12054929644-13377544650.html Hopefully the white doesn't turn "Arcadia pinkish" when in final colors... Quote
Kurisama Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 There is an extra piece that the peg inserts into that allows for the wings to tilt; it just hasn't been modeled, yet. This 3D model, something I started and dropped over 3 years ago, is entirely based off Bandai's 1/100 kit, and has the exact same basic components and parts breakdown, with very little alterations other than the combining of parts (Ex.: The PBC "lance" is one piece instead of 2) and/or added bits (Ex.: The flip-down face shield mounts to a C-bracket that is inserted between locating rails built into the head shroud). I actually built some of the parts (the lance, PBC emitter housing, targeting sensor - the white piece with the wing antenna opposite the PBC, the shroud, and face shield and its bracket on my company's SLA250 machine, scaled up to 1/60 of course... the end results are huge (the lance grows from 117.5mm to an impressive 195.8mm in length, and when you attach it to the emitter housing... Wow!). Oh, apologies! The modeling looks top notch BTW That is some impressive dimensions at 1/60 that's for sure! Can you post some photos? Quote
treatment Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Wish they delay the release to at least Jan or Feb 2016 instead. Too much stuff pending on December already. Otherwise, I'll wait for the Nexx+SAP edition. They gotta pair Nexx's with the SAP. It would be just so wrong not to. Quote
Tochiro Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Alright, so here are some bits from a discussion I had with Evolution Toys at Wonderfest. There may be more added to this later because I know of at least one other person who spoke with them as well. Please take the following with a grain of salt because all of it is based on a single factor - whether or not the VF-2SS sells enough.How much is 'enough'? I do no know. But if it doesn't then this will be the ONLY Macross 2 valkyrie that they do. IF it sells enough, there are things they want to do next. At this point that is a big IF and its up to the fans to put their money where their mouths are if they want this line to continue. That is the bottom line in all of this. -The fighter mode shown at WF is still not the final prototype. There is still one more to come. Then a colour prototype/test. -Despite all the work left to be done, they still expect to launch within one month of their December target at this stage. (So a late January release may be more realistic but we shall have to wait and see). -There has been a fair amount of preorders and interest from Japanese fans. -They are aware that theres is a lot of interest in the product from the foreign market and are happy about this. -No, none is monitoring anything that fans outside of Japan is saying. (1)Theres a language barrier, (2)Their license is for Japan only and as such they are focused on what the Japanese fans are saying. As with other Macross toy makers, they cannot sell to or be seen marketing to, territories outside of Japan. -I mentioned the tabs. They seemed a little surprised that the tabs were seen as an issue. Wouldn't comment at this stage on whether these would be altered in the next prototype. Fingers crossed. IF THE VF-2SS SELLS ENOUGH (and thats a big IF)... -The SAP has already been designed. There are slots in the current prototype for the SAP if you look closely enough. -IF it ever gets released it will probably not be as a stand alone product. -The more likely option is that it will come as a bundle with a a Nexx repaint of the VF-2SS. -I asked if other Macross 2 Valkyries were a possibility, such as the Metal Siren. They replied that they were interested in doing the VF-2JA Icarus as well as other Macross 2 valkyries, provided of course that there was enough interest shown and that the VF-2SS sold enough. So, there you have it. The possibility for more Macross 2 valkyries, repaints and SAPS is there, if the line sells well enough.All of the above is dependant upon the performance of the VF-2SS though, so none of it is official or guaranteed to happen. If nothing else, it seems that the staff loved their Macross 2 meter and that their intentions are good. Either myself or other members of the SpeakerPODcast will likely be talking with them again in the near future (fingers crossed). I'll add a few pics in a moment (computer is on the fritz so will upload directly from phone). These were taken in a very narrow space and through two layers of plastic so I apologise in advance for their quality. Quote
Mommar Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I have one on order but I still don't think this is going to be a very good release. My issue with them putting this on the fans to keep the line going is they need to make a product worth wanting to go back to again and again. Right now it's a passable 2SS but it's not a great one, and based on the mold not even a good one. It's just the only one. Sure, there is a different prototype version or two coming, but given Tochiro didn't ask things like "does the new mold get rid of those hideous posts for the engines" or "will the fighter actually be shaped correct" plus the fact they weren't aware the giant tabs on Battroid are a problem, it's pretty clear they aren't going to fix the issues we all have. And I think they won't be fixed if they rely on the Japanese market suggestions alone as the culture isn't the type to be direct with their criticisms like we in the west are. At least they have some taste, the 2JA is the better way to go as it doesn't look hideous like the Metal Siren does. Quote
Tochiro Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I have one on order but I still don't think this is going to be a very good release. My issue with them putting this on the fans to keep the line going is they need to make a product worth wanting to go back to again and again. Right now it's a passable 2SS but it's not a great one, and based on the mold not even a good one. It's just the only one. Sure, there is a different prototype version or two coming, but given Tochiro didn't ask things like "does the new mold get rid of those hideous posts for the engines" or "will the fighter actually be shaped correct" plus the fact they weren't aware the giant tabs on Battroid are a problem, it's pretty clear they aren't going to fix the issues we all have. And I think they won't be fixed if they rely on the Japanese market suggestions alone as the culture isn't the type to be direct with their criticisms like we in the west are. At least they have some taste, the 2JA is the better way to go as it doesn't look hideous like the Metal Siren does. Just to avoid any misunderstandings, a lot of the emphasis on the IF IT SELLS part is my own. This is because (a)its the reality of the situation and (b)I don't want what is being said to be taken out of context. It's not an issue of them 'putting it on the fans' - it's just that this is the standard business model for anything that doesn't have the resources of a Bandai or something similar. It's the way things work and is taken as granted. In many ways its the original Kickstarter (and is the main reason Kickstarter has taken so long to gain traction in Japan). As such, its often mentioned once and then not mentioned again, or is else left out of the conversation entirely - this results in a lot of mistranslated information and communication breakdown at times. So yeah, its just Evolution Toys acting the same as any small company would. And does. For what its worth they seemed quite positive and hopeful about the product. As for more detailed questions - these can be asked soon enough. Theres a a limit to what can be asked in an initial meeting without killing your chances of getting a second one. When you want to talk to Japanese companies about a product thats only for Japan, (especially when a license as tangled up in legal rubbish and internal politics as Macross is), you have to play by Japanese rules. Please, give me at least that much credit. ;-) Quote
Mommar Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 As for more detailed questions - these can be asked soon enough. Theres a a limit to what can be asked in an initial meeting without killing your chances of getting a second one. When you want to talk to Japanese companies about a product thats only for Japan, (especially when a license as tangled up in legal rubbish and internal politics as Macross is), you have to play by Japanese rules. Please, give me at least that much credit. ;-) By all means, play whatever games they expect you to play. Doesn't mean I'm not going to call all of their rules as stupid. Quote
jvmacross Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Still all-in on the VF-2SS, however, I have to question their marketing strategy. Sure, the "naked" -2SS will be bought by the die-hard fans....but I think starting off with a fully armed -2SS would have appealed to a much wider audience. If this info gets out enough, casual collectors may decide to cancel existing pre-orders and "wait" for the SAP equipped version....that will never come due to poor sales of the "plain Jane" VF-2SS.... Time to add a third pre-order.... Quote
technoblue Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 ^ Same. I'm also happy to see more photos of the grey prototype, which looks pretty good in Battroid mode already. The 'shopped concept art was sending shivers up my spine. Quote
valhary Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I dont get it why the criticism for sold by separated the SAP when bandai and arcadia/yamato always do that and by my side I think is more justifiable action for a small company than a bigger do not misunderstand me I wish all the valks release with respective armor/superparts/strikeparts/fastpack but at the end of the day the companies that make toys want earnings back in topic I love the head sculpted and thanks to Tochiro pics I start to understand the transformation process to the chest Quote
chyll2 Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 If this things turns out bad and everyone cancels their preorders HLJ gonna change their policies after this. or they will have enough stocks that they need to sell at a discount Quote
Scopedog Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 I would love for this to be closer to the 1/55 Takatoku in execution than the more fragile and complex style that is popular now. I pre-ordered from AmiAmi and unless the final product simply disintegrates in my hands, I expect to be exultant about whatever Macross II toys I get from Evolution. Kazumi Fujita is one of my favorite mecha designers and the VF-2SS Valkyrie II is my favorite Valkyrie despite the controversies over pedigree and canonicity. I would soil myself if a Macross Cannon were announced (there's hardly enough good art of it). Quote
jvmacross Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 more of a concern than a criticism....as it would seem the SAP may possibly not materialize due to insufficient sales of the SAP-less VF-2SS...which if were to happen, would go down as a bad business decision IMO... Quote
Keiichi Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 -I mentioned the tabs. They seemed a little surprised that the tabs were seen as an issue. Wouldn't comment at this stage on whether these would be altered in the next prototype. Fingers crossed. Next time you get the chance to talk to them, tell them that we're surprised that they're surprised that the tabs are seen as an issue. Then they can tell us that they're surprised that we're surprised that they're surprised that the tabs are seen as an issue. Silliness aside, I do hope they work something out. The headsculpt in these new proto pictures looks great, though! Quote
Scopedog Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) It seems like it would be easy for Evolution to make the tabs fold away behind the chest panel. Edited July 28, 2015 by Scopedog Quote
Mechapilot77 Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 see i got a problem with this "IF THE VF-2SS SELLS ENOUGH (and thats a big IF)... -The SAP has already been designed. There are slots in the current prototype for the SAP if you look closely enough. -IF it ever gets released it will probably not be as a stand alone product." why not sell the SAP both in bundles AND separately. Separately would be to reward those that helped guarantee the continuation of the line. a bundles would draw new people in. bundle ONLY Seems like a big FU to the early adopters. however, if you are going to make the thing compatible (see slots) and then NOT release stand alone and then say you likely won't release a stand alone....who is going to buy the original release? they need their PR and marketing people on this. this strategy is horrid and not going to earn them any fans. after see pictures of the protos i was going to preorder...then i read this in this thread...on the border AGAIN. Quote
Bolt Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 Thank you Tochiro ! I appreciate the info. It's interesting that the market outside of Japan doesn't appear to be a major factor for them. ( I'm sure it's some kind of factor) So, ultimately , are we dependent on how well loved macross 2 is loved in Japan? Either way, I've got my pre order and I'm very excited. Of course we are more critical in the west and I'm no exception.😈 Quote
Sandman Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) The tabs are such an eyesore that i can't believe it got to the prototype stage. I can't see the designer looking at that and thinking too himself "yeah that looks good". So what i understand from Tochiro's post is that if the vf-2ss sells well, ET won't sell the SAP separately but as a bundle with the Nexx type? How will we get SAPs for our Slyvie models then? **edit - looks like mechapilot77 beat me with this question as i was typing it out. Edited July 28, 2015 by Sandman Quote
Jasonc Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) By all means, play whatever games they expect you to play. Doesn't mean I'm not going to call all of their rules as stupid. I don't take that as a rule, but a common sense business practice. They aren't entitled to put anything out, and if it sells poorly, they aren't required to continue. I'd love to see this come with the SAP, but this could be a monetary issue, where they don't want to invest too much if it's a bust anyways. I see it as a way of mitigating potential loss. I mean after all, Macross II isn't the shining beacon of the Macross franchise. Quite opposite. I'm sure they've taken that into account, and we can only hope this turns out well in the end, for all of us. While I don't know what the Japanese market thinks of the no SAP, they are catering to them first, so I can only go with that. Glad to know this isn't the final design. Can't wait to see a final design. Thanks, Tochiro, for the news. It actuall kinda goes with what I was thinking. I hope they do reconsider adding the SAP as a standalone. It's too early to set those decisions in stone, so I'll continue with my two pre-orders, maybe a 3rd as well. I need Fairy Squad. Damn, maybe a 4th. Either way, I'm not so fragile as to reconsider pre-orders based on rumors, simple truth guys.... if you want it, get it. If not, don't. Edited July 28, 2015 by Jasonc Quote
Scopedog Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 (edited) I just put in a second pre-order at AmiAmi! I hope the exchange rate is still good in December/January! Edited July 28, 2015 by Scopedog Quote
Falconkpd Posted July 28, 2015 Posted July 28, 2015 By all means, play whatever games they expect you to play. Doesn't mean I'm not going to call all of their rules as stupid. Their rules are in place for a reason, dude. They're a small company taking a big financial risk on this. Cut em some slack. Quote
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