Star Citizen

[David Hingtgen]

Like, 3 years later and they're just now revealing Admiral Scully? (I remember watching the video-interview showing her mo-capping it long ago)  (personally, I find it kinda boring when they mo-cap and record an actor "just to look exactly like themselves in the game"----was really hoping her character model would look very different, just for the novelty etc) 

[TangledThorns]

I've avoided this game due to its controversy. Is it worth playing?

[Gerli]

44 minutes ago, TangledThorns said:

I've avoided this game due to its controversy. Is it worth playing?

Right now? No, it's a mess of bugs, wait until release and enjoy the whole game, early access is the worst thing ever happened to gaming (right after EA)

Edited October 12, 2018 by Gerli

[JB0]

2 hours ago, Gerli said:

Right now? No, it's a mess of bugs, wait until release and enjoy the whole game, early access is the worst thing ever happened to gaming (right after EA)

Early access is just putting a label on something the big publishers were already doing. More than one Windows game shipped completely unplayable out of the box. Day-one patches are still commonplace, we just have more universal internet than we did in the 90s, when there was time for Klax.

And personally, I think that early access is a disingenuous label for what Star Citizen is, which is a launched game that generates millions of dollars in revenue. But as long as they claim it isn't actually released, they can excuse any broken promises or glitches with the "unfinished preview" excuse.

 

(My favorite massive out-of-box glitch was in Shogo: Mobile Armor Division, in part because it was hilarious and NOT game-ending. The enemy AI would sometimes just fail to properly engage, so they'd take up a "station-keeping at the spawn point" routine. They'd just stand there and hold a pose as you walked up and circled around and pointed and laughed. Then you hit them with the shotgun and sent them flying. At that point they jumped up and dashed back to the spawn point and resumed taking a pose and doing nothing.)

Edited October 12, 2018 by JB0

[kajnrig]

...this may be the wrong game to ask about, but was this the one that was put under bizarre legal threat by one Alex Mauer? Whatever happened? Did the case get thrown out? Is it going to court? With this new trailer, I'm guessing everything is go?

I also seem to recall someone else suing this game for copyright infringement or some such thing. Yes? No? Maybe I'm thinking of another game starting with "Star."

[Gerli]

55 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

...this may be the wrong game to ask about, but was this the one that was put under bizarre legal threat by one Alex Mauer? Whatever happened? Did the case get thrown out? Is it going to court? With this new trailer, I'm guessing everything is go?

I also seem to recall someone else suing this game for copyright infringement or some such thing. Yes? No? Maybe I'm thinking of another game starting with "Star."

There is a lawsuit involving Crytek because StarCitizen change the engine (Cryengine) at middle development and chose the Amazon Engine instead, so Crytek sue CIG for breaching of contract or something like that.

[kajnrig]

7 minutes ago, Gerli said:

There is a lawsuit involving Crytek because StarCitizen change the engine (Cryengine) at middle development and chose the Amazon Engine instead, so Crytek sue CIG for breaching of contract or something like that.

Ah yes, that was it, I remember now. Thanks.

[Duymon]

Honestly no need to back this game right now unless you understand you'll be playing an early access game for another 2-5 years.

I've watched and played every release and it's been fun to see the game grow so much, but there's so much more they still need to do.

Luckily they've finally almost finished building their universe building tools and processes so the development progress will ramp up expontentially.

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Duymon

[Chronocidal]

As someone who's basically bought a game license and a single ship I liked (the Gladius, most WC-ish ship in the game I think), I'd say I've gotten my money's worth out of it.  While the game proper isn't ready for prime time, I actually really enjoy the testing phase, and messing around with people in multiplayer to try things.  Some of the most fun I've had was running a private PVP match, and loading up one of the preview builds of the giant Reclaimer salvage ship... then proceeding to play bumper cars with it.

Goofiness aside though, I feel like it's been worth it just for the hours I've spent playing the pirate gauntlet arena missions.  The spaceflight mechanics and physics in the game are some of the best I've seen in a very long time, and the combat is really enjoyable.  Even just the fact that I can take off from a space station, fly out to a moon, land at a botanical research station, and wander around the surface in one seamless experience is probably the most impressive thing for me.  It's something I've wanted to be able to do in every space game for literally decades.

[Shadow]

The controversy has largely kept me away from SC in recent years. That being said, I'd love to see the original Wing Commander 1 and 2 remade using this engine.

[Hiriyu]

What is the controversy that everyone is talking about?

[Chronocidal]

2 minutes ago, Hiriyu said:

What is the controversy that everyone is talking about?

I'm no legal expert, but the entire thing sounded like Crytek throwing a hissy fit over Star Citizen deciding not to use Cryengine.  It partly revolved around wording in the contract that granted SC "exclusive" rights to use Cryengine.  Where it goes off the rails is that Crytek seems to have thought "exclusive" means "you must use Cryengine for SC."  Any normal person would have interpreted that as Crytek only giving SC rights to use the engine, but there was no binding contract that SC had to run on it.  When Crytek stopped actively supporting development of the engine, SC moved on to Amazon Lumberyard.

There were other bits in there about how SC was turning into two separate games, due to Squadron 42 being released separately, but this was called out in the original contract, and Crytek knew about it.

Anyhow.  As far as seeing Wing Commander 1 and 2 built in this engine?  The main reason I'm driven to SC in the first place is because Chris Roberts has remained dedicated to the idea that SC will be run more like the games of days gone by.  Yes, there will be "official" servers for the game, but they've advertised it from the start as allowing private servers for people to develop their own content.  There are so many styles of play available in the game, it's almost inevitable that people will want customized sets of rules for specialized play.

Frankly speaking, the universe and mechanics are already nearly identical to classic WC.  It's part of why I enjoy the game so much already, even in its unfinished state.  Once the full game is released, and we start seeing SDKs become available?  I'm fully expecting to see conversion mods for every science fiction universe under the sun.  If we don't see a fully adapted Wing Commander universe mod in the next few years, I'll eat my hard drive.  

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Hiriyu said:

What is the controversy that everyone is talking about?

To expand on what Chronocidal said, from my hazy memory:

- Crytek granted... Star Citizen Company (sorry, I forget their name) the exclusive right to use CryEngine in the game, Star Citizen (ie no other party could use CryEngine in the game, Star Citizen). In exchange, Star Citizen Company would, among other things, provide periodic bugfixes for CryEngine that they find/create (ie help develop the engine).

- Star Citizen Company then decided to (among other things... just assume this applies to the rest of the list)
1) transition Star Citizen away from CryEngine to their own engine (called... Star Engine?), I think based on Amazon's Lumberyard game engine;
2) spin off a game from SC called Squadron 42, which it develops using said proprietary game engine.

- Crytek sued, claiming
1) SCC was granted the right to use exclusively CryEngine in the game Star Citizen (ie SCC could use no other engine).
2) SCC did not provide periodic bugfixes for CryEngine.
3) SCC breached the terms of the contract when it uploaded a Youtube vlog that had the game with CryEngine microcode displayed on a computer screen. (I think it was also this video that SCC claimed it was no longer using CryEngine but Star Engine.)

- SCC denied those claims, and I believe one of the defendants in the original suit was dropped.

EDIT:

Oh hey, found my old summary post:

http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/topic/36544-all-things-videogame-related-extreme-vs/?do=findComment&comment=1376789

On 1/8/2018 at 1:02 AM, kajnrig said:

Following up on this...

On 12/20/2017 at 7:26 PM, Gerli said:

This is amazing... but think about the posibilites...

A new X-Wing vs Tie-Fighter with Graphics like this?

YESSSS!

On 12/20/2017 at 8:24 PM, kajnrig said:

What with Star Citizen having been sued by Crytek - and the charges appear at least initially to have some merit - I'd be worried about this project's future... Best of luck to them, though.

 There's also the entire Rogue Squadron trilogy, fully remastered AS OF NOW and the devs are literally just waiting for someone at Disney to notice them and throw them a publishing bone.

On 12/20/2017 at 11:04 PM, Gerli said:

Crytek it's done for, I suppose they're scraping the last coins they can. Even the former Crytek lawyers are now working with Chris Roberts so... 

But I Really Hope they can finish the engine and use it to do others universes like Star Treek and Star Wars... the posibilites are endless.

On 12/20/2017 at 11:43 PM, kajnrig said:

Oh believe me, I have no sympathy whatsoever for Crytek. Aside from a continuous stream of terrible business decisions, their games are also just... kinda... average at best. Still, being a painfully mediocre game studio doesn't mean they don't have a potentially strong case here.

...I bring you this.

Short version:

 

   Hide contents

Crytek files a lawsuit against Cloud Imperium Games (devs of Star Citizen) and Roberts Space Industries (parent company of CIG), claiming

Breach of contract: CIG breached the CryEngine licensing contract they both signed by:

1. using CryEngine to develop a second game, Squadron 42, surreptitiously (the contract is only for "the Game," ie Star Citizen)
2. not exclusively using CryEngine for Star Citizen's game engine
3. removing CryEngine logo/trademarks/etc. from the splash screens/credits/etc. of Star Citizen
4. not providing bugfixes/optimizations/etc. that they made to CryEngine
5. sharing CryEngine tech with third parties

Copyright infringement: CIG infringed on Crytek's copyright by:

1. basically #5 above

 CIG responds with a motion to dismiss the lawsuit, responding to:

Breach of contract: CIG provides the court with a copy of the licensing agreement, and claims they did not breach it because:

1. The agreement explicitly uses the term "the Game" to refer to the combo of Star Citizen and Squadron 42
2. The agreement states that CIG has the exclusive right to use CryEngine for Star Citizen if they want to do so, NOT that CIG has to use exclusively CryEngine for Star Citizen
3. Since they aren't using CryEngine, they have no obligation to put its logos/trademarks/etc. on the splash screens/credits/etc. of Star Citizen
4. did not address this
5. did not address this

Copyright infringement: CIG can't infringe on Crytek's copyright if they aren't using the copyrighted engine in their work.

The long version:

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by kajnrig

[Gerli]

We're having a blast right now, even with all the bugs and crashed, the fun with all the ships and vehicles is incredible.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by Gerli

[Gerli]

We droped three vehicles from inside a cargo ship, but one did not make it and crashed into a rock

 

 

[Chronocidal]

Yeah, the CIG/Crytek mess sounded like a 30 technicality pileup.  From what I understand, Crytek wasn't holding up their end of the deal by doing the work to move the engine to a 64-bit architecture.

Anyhow, yeah, those videos are an amazing example of how versatile the engine they're making is, and why it's taking so long.  It's got all the functionality of something like the battlefield games, letting you move vehicles and things around at will, but at the fidelity of something approaching a flight or vehicle simulator.  There's just so much capability being baked into it.

From what I recall, it might even be entirely possible to simulate the physical properties of mechs, and while I never expect the atmospheric mechanics to reach DCS World levels, they are separate from spaceflight.  If we get enough people pouring effort into this, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't be able to have a full SDF-1 simulation built in this engine.

[kajnrig]

Apparently the Crytek case was dismissed.

 

[Gerli]

Crytek has a third and final chance to make another claim or get new evidence but it's pointless I think.

Also we have Space Whales, FEEL THE UNIVERSE!

 

[Sanity is Optional]

6 minutes ago, Gerli said:

Crytek has a third and final chance to make another claim or get new evidence but it's pointless I think.

Also we have Space Whales, FEEL THE UNIVERSE!

 

Now I want to fly a Leviathan around in SC... 

[JB0]

5 hours ago, Gerli said:

 

Also we have Space Whales, FEEL THE UNIVERSE!

 

If you look REAL CLOSE, you can see Basara in there singing to them.

... 

At least, I want to believe he's in there.

Edited December 13, 2018 by JB0

[Gerli]

12 hours ago, JB0 said:

If you look REAL CLOSE, you can see Basara in there singing to them.

... 

At least, I want to believe he's in there.

Some people on Reddit want to be Space Whalers... and now some other people want to HUNT those Hunters and even made a Sea  SpaceShepherd logo (The same flag but with a SpaceHelmet)

This game is gonna be weird (if ever is released)

Oh and you can sing ingame too.

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Gerli

[Sanity is Optional]

I'm picturing EVE meets Second Life...

[Nightbat]

Gotta say, that in the 26 years of gaming I've done, this has got to be the biggest disappointment of them all

And I really want this game to succeed, but when I see the amount of time and money that has already went into it, and the results so far...?

 

I think this game only will go live when the money for new ships stops coming in

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Nightbat

[Hiriyu]

I dunno, I'm pretty blown away by the results so far. This is the one game that's ever successfully shown me truly seamless FPS/Ground combat & navigation to Flight to Spaceflight in a realistically-scaled planetary system. I've been gaming and simming since the early '80s and this is the game I've always dreamt of since playing my first game of Star Raiders in 1981. Is it a bit rough around the edges right now? Sure. Does that mean that they can't pull it off at all? I don't think that's necessarily the case.

I won't hold the developers to any arbitrary rationale regarding development time or money raised as those subjects are not actually related to the technical ability to do what they are trying to do... I give them some leeway there due to the fact that they did not start the project with bags of money sitting around nor did they have any ability to foresee the level of funding they'd eventually draw. They said in 2014 that they were going to expand development to fit the funding, which is pretty much what they have done.

Could their efforts fail? Sure. Could their efforts succeed? Sure. I think it's worth the effort to at least try, and what I've seen does demonstrate that they are trying to build what they've said they're trying to build.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Hiriyu

[Sanity is Optional]

I'll give them credit, most of what they've spent time/money on so far is less building the game and more building the engine for the game.

Since the object based engine stuff got integrated, progress has been much faster on the game aspects.

[Chronocidal]

15 hours ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I'll give them credit, most of what they've spent time/money on so far is less building the game and more building the engine for the game.

Since the object based engine stuff got integrated, progress has been much faster on the game aspects.

It really is this, as a whole, that's been driving the process along.  It's not like they just had to build a game using components and tools that were already in use.  They're developing the technology that lets a universe this detailed and expansive even exist on current computers.

Has it been well managed from the start?  Probably not.  But I don't think the devs are even going to be able to reap all the benefits of everything they've developed.  That'll be seen years down the road, when (and if) the technology reaches full maturity, and gets used by other development teams.

[Sanity is Optional]

I really hope at least some of their engine works makes it into Lumberyard and gets used for additional games. Which seems likely due to their partnership with Amazon regarding the engine.

[Chronocidal]

My general hope for the franchise is that we'll finally have a new go-to engine to build space games in, so we can move past the limitations of Freespace 2.  

[Gerli]

2 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

My general hope for the franchise is that we'll finally have a new go-to engine to build space games in, so we can move past the limitations of Freespace 2.  

Hmmm... that's exactly the problem with the Crytek lawsuit... they can only work on Star Citizen and cannot license their engine to other game... at least for a couple of years.

I would LOVE to see a Star Treek or Battlestar Galactica Videogame made on the Star Citizen Engine... 

(Not to mention a Macross game but...)

[Sanity is Optional]

The lawsuit's done, and Amazon can certainly let other companies use Lumberyard (with some Star Citizen improvements included).

[Hiriyu]

That portion of the Crytek lawsuit has been struck down. Since CIG is using Lumberyard rather than CE, it's up to the terms of their license agreement with Amazon as to whether or not they can sublicense the engine features they've developed.

[Gerli]

Squadron 42 (The Single Player campaign) release Date announced: 2020!

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/roadmap/board/2-Squadron-42?fbclid=IwAR36ZYRHpR9JxYIpI9dMQmoDA7pHKqK_7B1PAYpcp-pDHSoM6kNC0DNkWWc

So.... we just wait? :P

Edited December 20, 2018 by Gerli

[Chronocidal]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 5:32 PM, Hiriyu said:

That portion of the Crytek lawsuit has been struck down. Since CIG is using Lumberyard rather than CE, it's up to the terms of their license agreement with Amazon as to whether or not they can sublicense the engine features they've developed.

I don't know how much of a development kit CIG might be able to release, but one of the big selling points SC has clung to throughout development is allowing people to run their own private servers of the game, as well as the "official" persistent universe servers run by CIG.  To me, that hearkens back to the days of Freelancer, and the old standard of having dozens of servers running with custom tweaks to the game, ranging from in-game economy tweaks to total conversion mods into other universes.

Given the scale of the game, and the ships and environments it is capable of running, I think it's only a matter of time before we see full-scale recreations of any number of science fiction universes within the game engine.  Whether any of them are officially licensed remains to be seen, but I'm actually interested to see how far underground modders have to dig to avoid C&D letters from Disney or Paramount if they start throwing some of the most famous ships into the game.

At the bare minimum, I expect to see Wing Commander/Privateer, and Babylon 5 content springing up quickly, possibly BSG.

[Sanity is Optional]

I'm guessing that any private server software available will not include a lot of the "behind the scenes" economy stuff. Overhead, potential to exploit the live version, and just lack of influence on small server populations make it unlikely.

[Nightbat]

1 hour ago, Chronocidal said:

Given the scale of the game, and the ships and environments it is capable of running, I think it's only a matter of time before we see full-scale recreations of any number of science fiction universes within the game engine. 

I don't think splintering the game is gonna contribute to healthy server population

We're talking niche market here, with a few entrenched competitors to boot