Netflix Marvel Universe

[sh9000]

 

[sh9000]

 

[Roy Focker]

Now waiting to hear that it's been canceled.  Just finished watching JJ season #1.  Shame these shows are ending I enjoyed most of them.  

[kajnrig]

34 minutes ago, Roy Focker said:

Now waiting to hear that it's been canceled.  Just finished watching JJ season #1.  Shame these shows are ending I enjoyed most of them.  

They're almost assuredly resurfacing on Disney's streaming service.

[Mazinger]

10 minutes ago, kajnrig said:

They're almost assuredly resurfacing on Disney's streaming service.

Actually, since Netflix's produced these specific seasons, they probably will not be shown on another network.

What's more, the characters can't even show up for two years after these shows are cancelled on another series, in case Disney wanted to reboot them.

Might be a while til there's more Daredevil, which at least Disney has said will return:

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/defenders-disney-streaming-daredevil-iron-fist-luke-cage-jessica-jones-1203087219/ 

[kajnrig]

1 hour ago, Mazinger said:

Actually, since Netflix's produced these specific seasons, they probably will not be shown on another network.

Sorry, I meant specifically any future seasons. That said...

1 hour ago, Mazinger said:

What's more, the characters can't even show up for two years after these shows are cancelled on another series, in case Disney wanted to reboot them.

Ouch. Well, alrighty then. That's gonna be a long two years. Hopefully in that time they'll get better at action scenes; Daredevil season 3 was really good otherwise.

[Mazinger]

15 hours ago, kajnrig said:

Sorry, I meant specifically any future seasons. That said...

Ouch. Well, alrighty then. That's gonna be a long two years. Hopefully in that time they'll get better at action scenes; Daredevil season 3 was really good otherwise.

Well, for nostalgia’s sake then, I hope at least one more fight in a hallway scene. “This city” needs people to fight in hallways.

[kajnrig]

33 minutes ago, Mazinger said:

Well, for nostalgia’s sake then, I hope at least one more fight in a hallway scene. “This city” needs people to fight in hallways.

It's really weird; the first two seasons have great extended fight sequences - the hallway fights. The third season does a better job telling an interesting story, and the irritating characters from the first two seasons are better-written (IIRC), but the fight choreography takes some major steps back. Some punches very obviously did not land, and I wasn't even looking out for them.

[azrael]

Officially official. Punisher & Jessica Jones cancelled by Netflix. JJ will finish when its season is released later this year.

[technoblue]

50 minutes ago, azrael said:

Officially official. Punisher & Jessica Jones cancelled by Netflix. JJ will finish when its season is released later this year.

Sad, but expected given recent events.

I guess the one question that remains is this: Will the TV characters and plots disappear into the ether or show up in some form on Hulu or Disney's new streaming service?

Edited February 18, 2019 by technoblue

[mikeszekely]

24 minutes ago, technoblue said:

Sad, but expected given recent events.

Yeah, this was inevitable the minute Disney announced they were working on their own streaming service. I'm less surprised about this announcement than the fact it came so long after the announcements for the other three.

[slide]

2 hours ago, technoblue said:

Sad, but expected given recent events.

I guess the one question that remains is this: Will the TV characters and plots disappear into the ether or show up in some form on Hulu or Disney's new streaming service?

Netflix's Punisher on a Disney-owned service... somehow I doubt it...

[technoblue]

2 hours ago, slide said:

Netflix's Punisher on a Disney-owned service... somehow I doubt it...

It's not impossible. Thinking about all the movies Disney helped to publish under its Touchstone Pictures label--films like Apocalypto, The Life Aquatic, Good Morning Vietnam, and Starship Troopers. Disney would be in a better position to compete with Netflix if they followed a similar model with their streaming service and published a variety of shows for all ages, including adults. With that setup, moving the popular Netflix Marvel series to a Disney-owned service wouldn't be too farfetched. 

The real downer, from an article I read back in December, is that it will be a year or two before the Netflix contracts end and free the characters up for new projects. If that's true, any speculation about what Disney may or may not do is probably a wash at this point.

Edited February 19, 2019 by technoblue

[slide]

15 minutes ago, technoblue said:

It's not impossible. Thinking about all the movies Disney helped to publish under its Touchstone Pictures label--films like Apocalypto, The Life Aquatic, Good Morning Vietnam, and Starship Troopers. Disney would be in a better position to compete with Netflix if they followed a similar model with their streaming service and published a variety of shows for all ages, including adults. With that setup, moving the popular Netflix Marvel series to a Disney-owned service wouldn't be too farfetched. 

Could happen, but it's still "Disney Streaming Service"... i can't immagine the blood, gore, and militarism of Starship Troopers blatantly underneath a Disney banner... 

 

Time will tell though... all I know is I ain't paying for it... at least not yet... they're Disney, they'll win in the end I'm sure.

[Sanity is Optional]

22 minutes ago, slide said:

Could happen, but it's still "Disney Streaming Service"... i can't immagine the blood, gore, and militarism of Starship Troopers blatantly underneath a Disney banner... 

 

Time will tell though... all I know is I ain't paying for it... at least not yet... they're Disney, they'll win in the end I'm sure.

They could always brand it separately within the streaming service? Not like they don't own enough brands.

[slide]

36 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

They could always brand it separately within the streaming service? Not like they don't own enough brands.

maybe, I'm just spit-balling because I'm aware of how clean they like the 'Disney' brand's nose to stay. 

Time shall tell.

[azrael]

9 hours ago, technoblue said:

The real downer, from an article I read back in December, is that it will be a year or two before the Netflix contracts end and free the characters up for new projects. If that's true, any speculation about what Disney may or may not do is probably a wash at this point.

Two years is a long time, unfortunately. The parties involved with making the shows the first time around may not come back, either because they’ve moved on or may no longer be available. I agree; any plans at this point are a wash and a waste of brain cells until Netflix’s 2-year hold on the characters is released. 

[SuperSenpai]

9 hours ago, technoblue said:

It's not impossible. Thinking about all the movies Disney helped to publish under its Touchstone Pictures label--films like Apocalypto, The Life Aquatic, Good Morning Vietnam, and Starship Troopers. Disney would be in a better position to compete with Netflix if they followed a similar model with their streaming service and published a variety of shows for all ages, including adults. With that setup, moving the popular Netflix Marvel series to a Disney-owned service wouldn't be too farfetched. 

The real downer, from an article I read back in December, is that it will be a year or two before the Netflix contracts end and free the characters up for new projects. If that's true, any speculation about what Disney may or may not do is probably a wash at this point.

 

Money can make anything happen.  If Disney thinks there is more value in having access to those shows immediately vs. waiting for the non-compete clause to expire, they can always pay Netflix and make it happen.  I think the bigger issue is availability of the cast and crew, who are obviously going to move on to other work and not sit around hoping Disney comes calling.  On the off chance that Disney were able to keep the Netflix MCU going, there was an interview with a Hulu executive recently who implied that they would be interested in acquiring those shows.  Since Hulu is partly owned by Disney, it would be a logical place for hosting those shows, and it would allow them to do so without tainting the actual Disney brand name with rated R-like content.

[slide]

2 hours ago, SuperSenpai said:

On the off chance that Disney were able to keep the Netflix MCU going, there was an interview with a Hulu executive recently who implied that they would be interested in acquiring those shows.  Since Hulu is partly owned by Disney, it would be a logical place for hosting those shows, and it would allow them to do so without tainting the actual Disney brand name with rated R-like content.

Makes sense

[azrael]

4 hours ago, SuperSenpai said:

Money can make anything happen.  If Disney thinks there is more value in having access to those shows immediately vs. waiting for the non-compete clause to expire, they can always pay Netflix and make it happen.  I think the bigger issue is availability of the cast and crew, who are obviously going to move on to other work and not sit around hoping Disney comes calling.  On the off chance that Disney were able to keep the Netflix MCU going, there was an interview with a Hulu executive recently who implied that they would be interested in acquiring those shows.  Since Hulu is partly owned by Disney, it would be a logical place for hosting those shows, and it would allow them to do so without tainting the actual Disney brand name with rated R-like content.

True. But how much will Hulu be willing to pay to break that contract? While Hulu would enjoy another group of shows, the Mouse's streaming service needs something to sell it's service.Star Wars and Marvel's catalog would make a much better sell together than just a few properties. That's a question Disney needs to answer. 

[slide]

21 hours ago, azrael said:

That's a question Disney needs to answer. 

They're currently faced with a lot of those...

[technoblue]

I found this over on Dark Horizons, and it seems to confirm most of what has been implied in the discussion about the breakup here. Netflix was upset that they didn't have any ownership rights for their original Marvel TV series, which were costly to produce, and that resulted in this Disney/Marvel coup.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/more-details-on-netflixs-marvel-cancellations/

It's too bad that Netflix and Marvel/Disney were unable to work out a revised contract. I'm not so sure our future Internet will be able to support endless streaming networks. With a limited number of viewers to give each media conglomerate a dedicated stable audience, these networks will be fighting for our eyes and ears. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top in the next five to ten years.

[azrael]

2 hours ago, technoblue said:

I found this over on Dark Horizons, and it seems to confirm most of what has been implied in the discussion about the breakup here. Netflix was upset that they didn't have any ownership rights for their original Marvel TV series, which were costly to produce, and that resulted in this Disney/Marvel coup.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/more-details-on-netflixs-marvel-cancellations/

It's too bad that Netflix and Marvel/Disney were unable to work out a revised contract. I'm not so sure our future Internet will be able to support endless streaming networks. With a limited number of viewers to give each media conglomerate a dedicated stable audience, these networks will be fighting for our eyes and ears. It will be interesting to see who comes out on top in the next five to ten years.

It adds to what I said here.

Interesting? Yes. Long-term stability? Unknown. Netflix & Hulu showed the studios they can distribute their content without the major networks or cable providers. Cord-cutting is on the rise so cable is not a viable platform anymore. Paid services are on the rise. Mobile internet-usage is now the platform to grab people. Studios want to reign in their products so they have more control over their products. Media giants like Netflix and Hulu want to be able to control their purses and not have to deal with the big crazy studios who insist on creative control (which gets very close to the purse). It's just all coming to head at this point.

[SuperSenpai]

I'm not surprised that the Netflix/Disney deal was structured so that Marvel had complete ownership of their shows.  I think Marvel learned their lesson from when they sold off the film rights to all their most valuable properties back in the 90s.  They watched a bunch of sub-par productions get made that dragged their brand through the mud.  Then they had to wait years for rights to expire (Daredevil), work out deals with the studios that they sold the rights to (Spider-Man), or buy companies outright (Fox) to regain access to all their characters.  After all that, you can be sure they are going to keep tight creative control over all their projects going forward.

 

[Mog]

I’m curious if that two-year waiting clause applies to ALL the characters or just the main/title characters.

The reason I ask is because I wonder if Disney+ would be willing to start up a Daughters of the Dragon series.

Misty and Colleen aren’t exactly the main characters of the Netflix shows, Colleen has the added bonus of having the power of the Iron Fist, and it would be a publicity boon for Disney to have a series with two minority female leads.

And we already know the two actresses kick ass when they’re on-screen together.

Plus, there are storylines for them to spin off from the cancelled series (Would be a tricky legal minefield to negotiate for sure, but could be a fun challenge for the writers).

[sh9000]

 

[SuperSenpai]

I honestly don't think it's really that hard to have the shows and films be more interconnected.  Star Trek did it in the 90s when TNG, DS9, and Voyager were overlapping.  You don't need to have tightly interwoven stories and crossover characters.  Just a casual reference here and there would be enough to make the shared universe more believable.  In DS9, Sisko briefly mentioned the destruction of the Enterprise-D from Star Trek: Generations when Worf joins the show.  Worf later shows up in First Contact commanding the Defiant from DS9, and still later in Insurrection, Picard makes a comment about Worf taking leave from DS9 to join them on their current adventure.  In Star Trek: Nemesis, the Enterprise bridge crew makes a passing reference to the Dominion War from DS9, and includes a brief cameo from Voyager's Captain/Admiral Janeway.  These were mostly literal one-liners that required no effort for the writers to include, and as someone who watched everything, that was more than enough to me to sell the interconnectedness of the films and TV shows.  

So whenever I hear Marvel execs bellyache about how hard it is to crossover the the shows and movies, I just roll my eyes.  It's not because it's too hard, it's because they just don't want to.  And given the apparently icy relations between the TV and film side, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than excuses about how it's too difficult.

[azrael]

19 hours ago, SuperSenpai said:

So whenever I hear Marvel execs bellyache about how hard it is to crossover the the shows and movies, I just roll my eyes.  It's not because it's too hard, it's because they just don't want to.  And given the apparently icy relations between the TV and film side, that makes a heck of a lot more sense than excuses about how it's too difficult.

That's what happens when you have 2 (Feige and Loeb) different people in charge.

[badboy00z]

Was any episodes of The Punisher season 2 filmed? 

[eXis10z]

The punisher s2 has been on Netflix for a month or two.

Edited March 25, 2019 by eXis10z

[zard]

Punisher was solid. Did not understand why Frank did not return to see his girl. Anyone know?

[SuperSenpai]

This is a moot point now that all of the Netflix MCU shows have been cancelled, but I'm genuinely curious what the writers of those shows would have done in response to the developments of Avengers: Endgame.  They could have done maybe one more season ignoring the events of Endgame, but at some point it starts to look awkward the longer the shows stay on the air.  Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D has chosen to ignore Endgame, which is weird considering the current season takes place a year after The Snap.  There are still a couple of other shows out there (Runaways and Cloak and Dagger).  Wonder what they are going to do about it (if anything)...

[Mazinger]

1 hour ago, SuperSenpai said:

This is a moot point now that all of the Netflix MCU shows have been cancelled, but I'm genuinely curious what the writers of those shows would have done in response to the developments of Avengers: Endgame.  They could have done maybe one more season ignoring the events of Endgame, but at some point it starts to look awkward the longer the shows stay on the air.  Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D has chosen to ignore Endgame, which is weird considering the current season takes place a year after The Snap.  There are still a couple of other shows out there (Runaways and Cloak and Dagger).  Wonder what they are going to do about it (if anything)...

My understanding is that Marvel TV and the MCU are two separate entities all together. There may have been some lip service to having it all be one integrated universe, but that really hasn't happened.  Fans have always wanted characters like Daredevil to get some mention in the movies, but the division between the two didn't lend itself to the TV characters landing on the big screen.

Avi Arad's history may have something to with this. Many blame him for the poor execution on earlier Spiderman movies and carelessly letting Terrence Howard walk away from Iron Man.  There may also be some resentment between him and Kevin Feige who seems to have been the biggest proponent of developing the Marvel shared cinematic universe.

 

 

[SuperSenpai]

7 hours ago, Mazinger said:

My understanding is that Marvel TV and the MCU are two separate entities all together. There may have been some lip service to having it all be one integrated universe, but that really hasn't happened.  Fans have always wanted characters like Daredevil to get some mention in the movies, but the division between the two didn't lend itself to the TV characters landing on the big screen.

Avi Arad's history may have something to with this. Many blame him for the poor execution on earlier Spiderman movies and carelessly letting Terrence Howard walk away from Iron Man.  There may also be some resentment between him and Kevin Feige who seems to have been the biggest proponent of developing the Marvel shared cinematic universe.

 

 

 

Right, I understood that the two divisions were separate within Disney.  But the TV side has always made at least some effort to reference the films in order to establish the connectivity.  AoS was usually the most blatant about it, typically having at least one or two major references to something happening in the films that were releasing the same week as the episode on air.  The Netflix shows were more subtle -- mostly offhand comments about "that green guy" or Ben Urich's office displaying copies of the NY Bulletin with headlines about the Battle of New York.

But the The Snap from Infinity War, and  

Spoiler

the five year time jump

are too big to ignore.  The shows have to either have to address it in some way or make some incredible leaps of logic to disregard it.

[badboy00z]

Is anyone else upset that Punisher didn't end with Frank going back to see Beth? I was really expecting that to happen instead we get a scene of him just killing some more people. It should have ended with Frank walking into the bar and their eyes lock. 3 months time jump with them in bed. Madani calls asking him to work for the CIA. He refuses and says "I'm right where I need to be."