Netflix Marvel Universe

[sh9000]

[seti88]

Just into ep2 of luke cage and loving it! Netflix is bringing back my youth and man its just like reading comics again...well almost...

Cant wait for iron fist and defenders next year! choo-choo chug chug...

[sh9000]

[Mazinger]

Half way through Luke Cage and it's good. Better than DD s2, not as compelling as JJ for yet. JJ was really something great, better than DD s1.

It's interesting that the Marvel TV shows are so strong. I'm now more interested in them than the movies.

Feeling iffy about Iron Fist, but Marvel hadn't made a slip yet.

[CoryHolmes]

You. Mazinger. I like the way you think.

[areaseven]

[Dobber]

I must be the only person in the country that thinks the Luke Cage series was the worse of the three seen so far. I really like the character but the show's style just wasn't for me. I also REALLY didn't like the romance between Claire and Luke. It just felt....wrong.

Daredevil is still the Gold-Standard IMO.

Chris

[azrael]

I must be the only person in the country that thinks the Luke Cage series was the worse of the three seen so far. I really like the character but the show's style just wasn't for me. I also REALLY didn't like the romance between Claire and Luke. It just felt....wrong.

The beginning was OK. After the half-way point, I think it started to lose me. That ending was just long.

[Tking22]

I must be the only person in the country that thinks the Luke Cage series was the worse of the three seen so far. I really like the character but the show's style just wasn't for me. I also REALLY didn't like the romance between Claire and Luke. It just felt....wrong.

Daredevil is still the Gold-Standard IMO.

Chris

The Claire and Luke thing really didn't work for me either, not only did it seem off because she seemed to already have affliction for Matt and her bit with Luke felt rushed, but also, we know that inevitably Jessica and Luke will work it out and become a thing. I liked Luke Cage overall, I feel Cottonmouth was a great villain, and Diamondback was lame as frakk, it was so jarring going from a good compelling villain to that, plus his costume/uniform at the end for the big finale was pretty awful looking.

[CoryHolmes]

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that each villain was good for their story arc. Cottonmouth was ideal as the gritty, 20teens skilled villain; and Diamondback was an excellent throwback to the Blaxploitation era films villain, complete with over-the-top grandstanding and villainous monologue.

It's just the transition between the two was handled very poorly. Such a jarring change in tone, much like what happened to DD S2.

Jessica Jones is still my favourite of all the Netflix shows. DD S1 is a close second, and Luke Cage and DD S2 occupy a lower tier. But even "lower tier" is still miles ahead of almost every other show out there, especially the superhero / comic book shows (lookin at you, Arrow...).

[Big s]

I finally finished off Luke Cage. I don't think it was as good as the other marvel Netflix shows, but it was still worth watching. I really like how the bad guys in all these shows get so much characterization that you almost feel bad for their situation. I wish the films from Marvel and DC would have antagonists as interesting as these.

I think the only complaint I have about this show may be the history lessons from Luke Cage. It made it feel more like an afternoon 80's kids show, rather than an adult oriented comic based series.

I did really like how they try to have glimpses of old school costume appearances in these shows.

[no3Ljm]

 

 

[no3Ljm]

 

 

 

[sh9000]

 

[seti88]

 

[Fortress_Maximus]

Does anyone else feel Iron Fist looks physically weak?  Definitely not an imposing stature like Cage and smaller than DD.  Will still watch and hopefully it will surprise. 

Still feel DD remains the best Marvel expanded universe character.  DD displayed excellent overall storyline, character development, action, cinematography, acting, and music.  Compared with Jessica Jones, to me DD highlights exactly what was lacking in the JJ.  I feel JJ was the worst of the series thus far.  Initially enjoyed JJ until she made repeated asinine mistakes resulting in people getting injured or dying.  I felt JJ was written with far too much self-loathing, depression, and stupidity.  Her character development simply failed horribly.  She did not evolve and it became painful to watch her.  The action sequences were not good and it is clear JJ has no discipline, focus or training.  Also, the pacing of the series was too long, it should've ended when Kilgrave was captured.  I felt the writing in JJ was considerably weaker compared to DD.  Enjoyed Luke Cage, the initial story arc involving Cottonmouth was great.  Afterwards, the use of Diamondback served a purpose but it felt too forced along much like the romance with Claire. 

 

[CoryHolmes]

30 minutes ago, Fortress_Maximus said:

Does anyone else feel Iron Fist looks physically weak?  Definitely not an imposing stature like Cage and smaller than DD.  Will still watch and hopefully it will surprise. 

Still feel DD remains the best Marvel expanded universe character.  DD displayed excellent overall storyline, character development, action, cinematography, acting, and music.  Compared with Jessica Jones, to me DD highlights exactly what was lacking in the JJ.  I feel JJ was the worst of the series thus far.  Initially enjoyed JJ until she made repeated asinine mistakes resulting in people getting injured or dying.  I felt JJ was written with far too much self-loathing, depression, and stupidity.  Her character development simply failed horribly.  She did not evolve and it became painful to watch her.  The action sequences were not good and it is clear JJ has no discipline, focus or training.  Also, the pacing of the series was too long, it should've ended when Kilgrave was captured.  I felt the writing in JJ was considerably weaker compared to DD.  Enjoyed Luke Cage, the initial story arc involving Cottonmouth was great.  Afterwards, the use of Diamondback served a purpose but it felt too forced along much like the romance with Claire. 

 

I agree that Iron Fist doesn't look the muscle-bound part, but I'm willing to see what they put on the screen.  If it's like I suspect it'll be (Matrix and Bruce Lee inspired kung fu, vs DD's more grounded brawling) then I'll accept the lack of physicality by Finn Jones.  There's nothing to complain about the kung fu in the Matrix series, and Keanu Reeves isn't exactly muscle bound. 

 

This does lead up to the question of exactly how is Iron Fist going to fit into the Defenders?  Luke is the Mighty Glacier, Jess is the Glass Cannon and flying person (I hope she's actually going to fly in this one!), Matt is the brutal fisticuffs... where does Iron Fist fit in?  What does he bring that the others, especially Matt, don't already have?

 

I'm just the opposite when it comes to DD and JJ.  I feel that Season 2 was somewhat unguided and too long.  Season 1 was much less egregious, but S2 was just a floppy mess for me.  It started off so strong with the Punisher arc, but it lost me with the Hand.  Add in the Karen storyline, I didn't like Elektra or her plot contributions at all, and I hated everything to do with the Hand.  (The Kingpin episode was effin' glorious, though!)

 

On the other hand, I really loved Jessica Jones.  I enjoyed that she wasn't perfect, she screwed up, made mistakes, was a general mess of a person... and still kept plugging along.  I can excuse the repeated silly mistakes because she's not a trained crime fighter and tended to rely on her absurd strength instead of martial arts, and she absolutely does not think clearly at all when it comes to Kilgrave (for better or for worse).  I also really enjoyed the little touches of how she uses her superpowers in her day/evening job (wedging herself 20 stories up between two buildings to spy was fun, her general hatred for locks amused me, and those poor, innocent doors).  I agree that the pacing was a little off and it bogged down towards the end, but not to the point of S2 of DD.

 

Most of all, I really enjoyed the performances of everyone in the JJ cast.  Krysten Ritter brought a surprisingly layered performance, and Tennant's wickedly charming rapist was a sight to be seen (he got robbed at the Emmy's!).

 

I agree with everything you said about Luke Cage.  Especially that stupid Claire romance.  Ugh, Luke and Jess, Matt and Claire.  I accept no other combinations.

[Tking22]

I'm not understanding, is everyone new to Iron Fist? He's never been large and physically intimidating like his better half Luke Cage, his fighting skills and powers make him more then formidable enough.

[Fortress_Maximus]

On 2/13/2017 at 1:42 PM, Tking22 said:

I'm not understanding, is everyone new to Iron Fist? He's never been large and physically intimidating like his better half Luke Cage, his fighting skills and powers make him more then formidable enough.

 

 

 

Never said that he was as large as Luke Cage.  Comment was about how the actor is tiny in build and musculature.  And historically Iron Fist  looks quite physically formidable in the comics.  http://marvel.com/universe/Iron_Fist_(Danny_Rand) Hardly as puny as the NFLX MCU representation.  At the very least Iron Fist has the highly defined physical build of the Master of Kung Fu, Shang Chi.

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Fortress_Maximus

[Big s]

The look of Iron Fist doesn't bug me at all. He may not be as built as the pics in the comic, but then again Jessica Jones would have been almost a super model and Luke Cage would have been almost twice as big if they were worried about looking physically like the comics. It's not as strange as believing in an actor in most martial arts films being able to handle any opponent, like a Jet li film.

On another note, I hope Jessica Jones never flies in the show because her high jumps looked a bit out of place and trying to make her fly will be way too cheesy.

[Fortress_Maximus]

I get what you are saying. However what bothers me is how tiny Finn Jones is as the Iron Fist. Lift a little dude. He might be a decent actor but, there are plenty of talented actors who can act and look the part visually. And as for the Jet Li reference, he was definitely built when younger and even today, considerably moreso than Jones. Part of what made Jet's films amazing and believable is the fact he actually is a martial artist, just like Donnie Yen is exceptionally believable in his film portrayals as a martial artist. Perhaps that level of realism isn't needed for Iron Fist, but arguably realism is what the MCU is grounded in. Just my ten cents.

[Tking22]

1 hour ago, Big s said:

The look of Iron Fist doesn't bug me at all. He may not be as built as the pics in the comic, but then again Jessica Jones would have been almost a super model and Luke Cage would have been almost twice as big if they were worried about looking physically like the comics. It's not as strange as believing in an actor in most martial arts films being able to handle any opponent, like a Jet li film.

On another note, I hope Jessica Jones never flies in the show because her high jumps looked a bit out of place and trying to make her fly will be way too cheesy.

This. Even at his most exaggerated, and in the samples F_M provided, he's still pretty small by comic book standards. MCU may at times attempt to be grounded in realism, but it's still at its heart a very ridiculous comic book world, complete with norse aliens, super soldier serums, and alien-made anthropomorphic animal creatures. Should he have added a bit of muscle? Eh, maybe, not really necessary in my opinion. As mentioned skill and ability doesn't always translate to actual physicality and size, I think his body shape and build are pretty perfect for the absurdly fast martial artist. At the end of the day his hook is his powers, which aren't affected by his size or build, so the body thing doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'd even argue having him smaller lends more to realism, and the overall impact of his powers. Here's this relatively tiny guy that is lightning fast, and packs a punch that you absolutely wouldn't believe. Bulking up wouldn't help him much, his physical strength will never be as important as his raw skill, and his powers work either way. He's buff and exaggerated in comics because they're comics, EVERYONE needs to be bulked up and exaggerated to some silly degree. This is a real person now, having a toned six pack of abs will suffice for me. I think the contrast between Iron Fist and Luke Cage needs to be more prevalent in live action, having him smaller will look better next to Luke Cage, who can't be absurd comic book large, just real world large.

[CoryHolmes]

8 hours ago, Big s said:

On another note, I hope Jessica Jones never flies in the show because her high jumps looked a bit out of place and trying to make her fly will be way too cheesy.

...

It's a good thing Christmas has already passed, since I'd tear up your card for that comment!

 

I thought her high jumps were done rather well, except for the one at the end.

[Big s]

I didn't mean to offend the Jessica Jones fans, but the jumps did look a bit odd but not that bad. I guess I just don't want them to get over their heads with effects that may just look too cheap like in DC super hero shows or Marvels Agents of Shield. To me the Netflix shows look great, almost like a movie. They may have a high budget, but not a Hollywood blockbuster budget. I really can't think of a really great looking super hero flight scene in a series. Not saying there haven't been okay flights, just not really great.

[sh9000]

[Fortress_Maximus]

So now that Iron Fist has dropped for those of you who've finished it care to share your thoughts?

Won't go into plot specifics but after watching it, I was rather disappointed with the direction used for Danny's character development.  And the second biggest disappointment was the action choreography and overall martial arts Iron Fist demonstrated.  Will wait for others to share more.

[azrael]

I sat through about 30 min of the first episode before I started to fast forward. Then started to quick view the rest. The bored-room drama just kills the show. Danny Rand, while naive, is un-interesting. And shouldn't he have shaved his head at the monastery? Colleen Wing is definitely the best character of the show. 

Fight choreography. Danny isn't Daredevil. His movements feel awkward for what he's supposed to be. They need to give Finn Jones a lot more Wu Shu lessons. All the other actors look so much better for their styles. And really, Drunken Boxing is just the name. You do not need to literally have a bottle and be drunk WHILE you are fighting. 

And hallway fight. No. Daredevil already did that. Twice. 

[Mog]

^^And Captain America and Bucky had a similar stairwell fight in Civil War.  Gotta go with a new fighting trope.

I heard most critics based their review off the first six episodes.  But a guy on IGN watched all the eps.  Apparently, the rest are just as bad/disappointing.

[technoblue]

On 3/19/2017 at 3:08 PM, azrael said:

I sat through about 30 min of the first episode before I started to fast forward. Then started to quick view the rest. The bored-room drama just kills the show. Danny Rand, while naive, is un-interesting. And shouldn't he have shaved his head at the monastery? Colleen Wing is definitely the best character of the show. 

I think all the Netflix Marvel superhero shows suffer from pacing, especially when introducing the heroes. For me, Jessica Jones succeeded the most with its introduction of her character, and Daredevil gets high marks for being the first show out of the gate. From what I've seen so far, I would rank Luke Cage higher than Iron First, but both shows are very entertaining. Iron Fist didn't really do a good job with grounding Danny to anything familiar. He just shows up after a long ago tragedy, and that is not only hard for his friends to swallow in universe but also for the audience to swallow. There could have been a better set up for that background fantasy. And definitely, if you skip through episodes you miss important details like the one I highlighted. There was even a scene with young Danny in his Shaolin-style monk garb.

Anyway, one of the important goings on with Danny's story is his role as the Iron Fist, and how he should play that out. It comes up multiple times in his interactions with other characters. I don't want to get into spoiler territory, so I'll leave it at that. The point is, I decided to give the show a chance, and I'm glad I did. It may be the weakest of them but it is still good.

[CoryHolmes]

I've found all of the Netflix shows to have had their pacing troubles.  DD S1 was the cleanest of the bunch, S2 really went off the rails after the Punisher arc.  Jessica Jones really was about 3 episodes too long and really lost steam when Kilgrave went all "Moar powerzzzz!".  Luke Cage's issues have been flogged to death, and I'm finding it hard to get into Iron Fist.

 

But that doesn't make them unentertaining shows, however.  Just problematic ones, and there are very few that aren't.

[Big s]

I've made it up to episode 9 so far with Iron Fist and I really like it. The first couple episodes are a bit rough, but I'm definitely finding it rewarding. I also enjoy the fighting that so many are complaining about.

[azrael]

16 hours ago, technoblue said:

There was even a scene with young Danny in his Shaolin-style monk garb.

I'm not talking about the scenes of kid-Danny. I'm talking about adult-Danny. From the time he defeats the dragon, to when he leaves K'un-L'un to him coming to New York, the character's hair and beard are the same length. That's a continuity-error. If his head was shaven or if his hair were shorter when he was at K'un-L'un then more grown out by the time he got to New York, it wouldn't have stuck out like that.

 

11 hours ago, CoryHolmes said:

I've found all of the Netflix shows to have had their pacing troubles.  DD S1 was the cleanest of the bunch, S2 really went off the rails after the Punisher arc.  Jessica Jones really was about 3 episodes too long and really lost steam when Kilgrave went all "Moar powerzzzz!".  Luke Cage's issues have been flogged to death, and I'm finding it hard to get into Iron Fist.

I agree. Jessica Jones, Luke Cage and Iron Fist definitely needed to be scaled back to a shorter season. For sure DD S2 was showing that after Punisher became the B-story.

 

[technoblue]

3 hours ago, azrael said:

I'm not talking about the scenes of kid-Danny. I'm talking about adult-Danny. From the time he defeats the dragon, to when he leaves K'un-L'un to him coming to New York, the character's hair and beard are the same length. That's a continuity-error. If his head was shaven or if his hair were shorter when he was at K'un-L'un then more grown out by the time he got to New York, it wouldn't have stuck out like that.

It could be, but I am not convinced. This show, like the other Marvel shows, uses a number of things to get its points across and I think Danny's look was done that way intentionally. Davos doesn't confront Danny for leaving his post until the very end of the series. His look, though, is a visual reference letting us know from the beginning that he is not like previous Iron Fists. He's not following the traditional path that was set before him.

Spoiler

On a more spoiler-ish note, this show is quite heavy handed with the idea of immortals--more so than Daredevil. 

I don't know if it is a trap, but it almost had me believing that Danny was one.

I mean, the audience is given hints when seeing flashbacks to Danny's childhood with his parents in the city. He was more of a kind-hearted kid, and he wasn't quick to anger like his friend Ward. But we also learn that coming back from the dead changes a person. And we see how that can make someone who was already corrupt, like Harold, even more insidious. But apart from that, there is this notion that Danny has changed. We see flashes of anger, and Claire even questions them at one point. And I have to wonder if he didn't really die in that crash? If so, then did the monks bring him back, and was Gao trying to help him remember that truth along with the stuff related to the Hand? I don't know, but it is curious. Harold also had difficulty remembering who he was when he came back from the dead that second time...

 

Edited March 21, 2017 by technoblue

[CoryHolmes]

While I'm only on Episode 3, I'm getting a serious Daft Punk vibe from the soundtrack.  It reminds me so much of Tron Legacy in terms of the beats and use of bass and electronica.

 

Also?  I love Joy.  She's such a pleasure to watch

[Graham]

Liking Iron Fist mainly for Colleen Wing, she's awesome and the best part of the show. She seriously needs her own show!!!

Iron Fist also seems to share many story beats with Arrow season 1.