Arcadia 1/60 VF-0S & VF-0A

[MacrossJunkie]

I've had plastic parts literally crumbling like they just decided to disintegrate. I find tiny broken bits and particles like what happened with a leg for one of my Yamato VF-19S. I believe a 1/72 VF-11B I had also partially crumbled in the hip.

[Slave IV]

Ouch! Well, I'm glad it hasn't happened to my toys. I've got most my toys from childhood and I can't think of any that have what you've described happen. Worst I can think of is broken o-ring bands in GI Joe figures and some crappy Go Bots that had parts come off but did not "disintegrate".

[505thAirborne]

1 hour ago, MacrossJunkie said:

I've had plastic parts literally crumbling like they just decided to disintegrate. I find tiny broken bits and particles like what happened with a leg for one of my Yamato VF-19S. I believe a 1/72 VF-11B I had also partially crumbled in the hip.

Same here, on one of my VF-0A's the shoulders just crumbled and one my VF-0S's the knee-section turned into Play-Doh when I attempted for the 1st to transform it, that one stays in Fighter mode only now. 

@myk As for the hands, knock on wood no issues there. 

[treatment]

5 hours ago, Slave IV said:

I often read about toys "literally crumbling" and don't get it. I don't doubt parts may break and luckily, none of mine have but I can't imagine what the scenario could be where a toy made within the last few decades, stored in a box could "literally crumble". Maybe I'm taking it to "literally" because I'm imagining these things turning to dust like they got Thanos'd. 

 

Iirc, some of the old Banpresto VF-1's were crumbling to pieces after being taken out of the box. 

Prior to Banpresto, I had an old cheap VF-1's from HK back in the 80's that just disintegrated after it got rained on.

More recently, Takara's MP-47 Hound was pretty much breaking and crumbling to pieces on its own...

 

 

[MacrossJunkie]

6 minutes ago, treatment said:

 

Iirc, some of the old Banpresto VF-1's were crumbling to pieces after being taken out of the box. 

Prior to Banpresto, I had an old cheap VF-1's from HK back in the 80's that just disintegrated after it got rained on.

More recently, Takara's MP-47 Hound was pretty much breaking and crumbling to pieces on its own...

 

 

Wow, Hound just came out not too long ago, right?

Makes me wonder if someone mistook a bag of flour for a bag of plastic powder and threw it in when they were mixing the batch of plastic.

[Slave IV]

31 minutes ago, treatment said:

 

Iirc, some of the old Banpresto VF-1's were crumbling to pieces after being taken out of the box. 

Prior to Banpresto, I had an old cheap VF-1's from HK back in the 80's that just disintegrated after it got rained on.

More recently, Takara's MP-47 Hound was pretty much breaking and crumbling to pieces on its own...

 

 

The oldest Macross I have is the Chunky Monkey and the little crappy transforming one. I can still crack heads with no issue to the toy as far as Chunkys go. The little one did break at one of the arm sliders but only after years of taking it with me everywhere and transforming it countless amount of times. It should still work to this day (if I could find it) but I just need to hold the arm in place. MP-47...I don't know, I heard and seen issues with that so I have been careful with mine but I've let my kids play with it and I'm looking at it right now with zero breaks or disintegrations. Again, I guess I'm just lucky?

[Rogueload]

Talk about crumbling we’re all my hands on the toynami alpha’s.  I don’t know what they did to the plastic but they were garbage. 

[ErikElvis]

Knock on wood I’ve had decent luck with my valks. I even think all my cf 171’s triangles are intact. I backed off the screws when I got them. My Yamato 0A’s biceps never disintegrated although I don’t think I ever transformed it out of fighter. I don’t want to look now. 
 

I did have the wrong leg on my 51. 

Edited July 24, 2020 by ErikElvis

[treatment]

2 hours ago, Slave IV said:

The oldest Macross I have is the Chunky Monkey and the little crappy transforming one. I can still crack heads with no issue to the toy as far as Chunkys go. The little one did break at one of the arm sliders but only after years of taking it with me everywhere and transforming it countless amount of times. It should still work to this day (if I could find it) but I just need to hold the arm in place. MP-47...I don't know, I heard and seen issues with that so I have been careful with mine but I've let my kids play with it and I'm looking at it right now with zero breaks or disintegrations. Again, I guess I'm just lucky?

Dunno if lucky nor not.   

Anecdotally, all my yammie 1/60v2s were first-releases, and none of them have shoulder-cracks to this day and I ain't delicate with any of them. 

Yet various people here have reported and shown pictures of their yammies with cracked shoulders during those cracked-shoulder times.

 

13 minutes ago, ErikElvis said:

Knock on wood I’ve had decent luck with my valks. I even think all my cf 171’s triangles are intact. I backed off the screws when I got them. My Yamato 0A’s biceps never disintegrated although I don’t think I ever transformed it out of fighter. I don’t want to look now. 
 

I did have the wrong leg on my 51. 

Oh yeah. Forgot about those.

The 0A from Yamato, 0A from Arcadia, and the  CF-171 from Bandai were notorious disintegrating Macross toys.

 

[ErikElvis]

5 minutes ago, treatment said:

Dunno if lucky nor not.   

Anecdotally, all my yammie 1/60v2s were first-releases, and none of them have shoulder-cracks to this day and I ain't delicate with any of them. 

Yet various people here have reported and shown pictures of their yammies with cracked shoulders during those cracked-shoulder times.

 

Oh yeah. Forgot about those.

The 0A from Yamato, 0A from Arcadia, and the  CF-171 from Bandai were notorious disintegrating Macross toys.

 

Wait was it the Yamato 0A with the disintegrating biceps or the 19?  Or both?

Edited July 24, 2020 by ErikElvis

[treatment]

18 minutes ago, ErikElvis said:

Wait was it the Yamato 0A with the disintegrating biceps or the 19?  Or both?

It was the Yammie 0A who had the self-disintegration issue. At least, the whole shoulders and arms, iirc.

In contrast, the Yammie YF-19 had a rather challenging bicep-transformation, but it was not really a self-disintegrating part like the Yammie-0A.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by treatment

[myk]

3 hours ago, Slave IV said:

The oldest Macross I have is the Chunky Monkey and the little crappy transforming one. I can still crack heads with no issue to the toy as far as Chunkys go. The little one did break at one of the arm sliders but only after years of taking it with me everywhere and transforming it countless amount of times. It should still work to this day (if I could find it) but I just need to hold the arm in place. MP-47...I don't know, I heard and seen issues with that so I have been careful with mine but I've let my kids play with it and I'm looking at it right now with zero breaks or disintegrations. Again, I guess I'm just lucky?

My original Takatoku VF 1S and Joke Machine are as solid as the day I bought them.  May the toy gods bless those things and the people that made them.

 

As for the newer toys, do I have any recourse for my '0S?  Does someone make extra hands or do I have to wait for someone that's scrapping theirs or send my '0S to physical rehabilitation?  

Edited July 24, 2020 by myk

[Priss!]

Just took out my Arcadia VF-0A copy and transformed it for the first time to Batroid and found this.

Damn!

[MacrossJunkie]

35 minutes ago, Priss! said:

Just took out my Arcadia VF-0A copy and transformed it for the first time to Batroid and found this.

Damn!

Dang, is that a stress mark at the base of the hinge too?

I'd suggest at least popping the pin out and then trying something like plastic weld to fuse the crack back together before it gets worse.

[505thAirborne]

Man that sucks, if it's a clean even break hopefully you can do what @MacrossJunkie suggested. 

 

[jenius]

1 hour ago, Priss! said:

Just took out my Arcadia VF-0A copy and transformed it for the first time to Batroid and found this.

Damn!

While not something you want to see, I wouldn't do anything about it and I wouldn't expect it to impair your toy at all. That's a SUPER common break anywhere a pin goes through plastic. If you have a Yamato VF-11, you'll probably find a bunch of those same cracks. Since it's a part that just folds, it probably won't get worse. 

[Sandman]

What do you guys do to keep the canopy from getting scratched in batteries mode.

[easnoddy]

Those sorts of joints should always be steel IMO. So long as they don't need to hold a position due to tension. Its a simple hinge.

[Sanity is Optional]

10 minutes ago, easnoddy said:

Those sorts of joints should always be steel IMO. So long as they don't need to hold a position due to tension. Its a simple hinge.

That doesn't really work if they need to be a specific color.

If you use a steel part you get your choice of steel color, or horrible flaking paint issues. I'd prefer a plastic part molded in the proper color any day if it's not load bearing.

[edit] Also it's not rocket science to get a properly fitted pin joint, really it's not. Even the Yamato issue stemmed from using the wrong type of pin (knurled pin, without changing the diameter to accommodate the knurling).

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sanity is Optional

[sqidd]

8 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

That doesn't really work if they need to be a specific color.

If you use a steel part you get your choice of steel color, or horrible flaking paint issues. I'd prefer a plastic part molded in the proper color any day if it's not load bearing.

[edit] Also it's not rocket science to get a properly fitted pin joint, really it's not. Even the Yamato issue stemmed from using the wrong type of pin (knurled pin, without changing the diameter to accommodate the knurling).

Devils advocate.

How about anodized aluminum?

[Sanity is Optional]

18 minutes ago, sqidd said:

Devils advocate.

How about anodized aluminum?

Probably be quite expensive to get cast compared to the usual iron.

Also aluminum is generally a bad idea for any part that can fatigue, since it will always develop stress fractures eventually. It doesn't have an endurance limit like iron/steel where stresses below a given boundary have infinite cycle life.

That said, anodized aluminum would definitely look the best, right up until it got scratched through the anodization layer.

[sqidd]

6 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

Probably be quite expensive to get cast compared to the usual iron.

Also aluminum is generally a bad idea for any part that can fatigue, since it will always develop stress fractures eventually. It doesn't have an endurance limit like iron/steel where stresses below a given boundary have infinite cycle life.

That said, anodized aluminum would definitely look the best, right up until it got scratched through the anodization layer.

For sure the cost would be astronomical compared to a plastic.

You wouldn't be able to have tight joints like you can with plastic.

You could hard anodize though. If done correctly it's extremely durable.

 

I suspect most of the plastic issues we see with toys is down to very little actual materials engineering and then quality control. There is no reason why plastic can't do the job and do it well.

 

 

[Sanity is Optional]

I think most of it comes down to:

• Improperly accounting for part shrinkage
• Bad material QC (inconsistent plastic, which can also compound other issues. This also includes inconsistent pin sizes)
• Lack of post-processing on molds. Bandai will polish their gunpla molds until the part fit is perfect. Most companies will not.
• Poor design. Sometimes things are just designed badly, gates are placed poorly, parts don't account for stress concentrations. Design is more of an art than a science, really, since it takes some creative thinking to come up with ideal solutions for complex designs.

[edit] As far as Hard Anodize: unless you're calling out an anodization layer thickness, don't expect scratch-proof. Just found a big scratch through the hard black on a $1000 part I finished putting together Friday. Time to get the sharpie out again...

Edited July 26, 2020 by Sanity is Optional

[sqidd]

49 minutes ago, Sanity is Optional said:

I think most of it comes down to:

• Improperly accounting for part shrinkage
• Bad material QC (inconsistent plastic, which can also compound other issues. This also includes inconsistent pin sizes)
• Lack of post-processing on molds. Bandai will polish their gunpla molds until the part fit is perfect. Most companies will not.
• Poor design. Sometimes things are just designed badly, gates are placed poorly, parts don't account for stress concentrations. Design is more of an art than a science, really, since it takes some creative thinking to come up with ideal solutions for complex designs.

[edit] As far as Hard Anodize: unless you're calling out an anodization layer thickness, don't expect scratch-proof. Just found a big scratch through the hard black on a $1000 part I finished putting together Friday. Time to get the sharpie out again...

I've been known to fix anodizing with a Sharpie!

I agree with your bullet point list above. Especially the art part of it. I wouldn't know where to start designing some of this stuff. I don't have 20yrs of experience to fall back on. If I were making something to compete with let's say the DX I would buy some, take them apart, figure out what I want to do better, go find people that I can lean on for advice and then doe a lot of FEA work before I felt comfortable putting out a product with my reputation behind it. So, I won't be designing any toys!

 

[easnoddy]

I'd go with whatever method they use for guitar bridges and tuning machines.  Even the smoke/cosmic black would suffice.  On guitars these are often-touched, moving parts that do bare weight (String tension) and largely do not have chipping or oxidizing issues. 

[Sanity is Optional]

I'm pretty sure those parts aren't cast, rather hot- or cold-worked.

Much more expensive manufacturing process, which isn't suitable for the relatively small quantities of Valkyrie production.

[Kyp Durron]

Got a question, is $375 shipped a good price for an Arcadia VF-0S (Regular edition) that's open box with some box damage? 

[MacrossJunkie]

That sounds rather reasonable to me considering how hard it is to find one these days, as long as the toy hasn't been sitting out in the sunlight and turned yellow or have some physical damage. I wish I had gotten a 2nd one myself to have one dedicated to wearing the reactive armor.

[Kyp Durron]

26 minutes ago, MacrossJunkie said:

That sounds rather reasonable to me considering how hard it is to find one these days, as long as the toy hasn't been sitting out in the sunlight and turned yellow or have some physical damage. I wish I had gotten a 2nd one myself to have one dedicated to wearing the reactive armor.

Yeah, I'm thinking about jumping on it, I don't think I'll see that kind of price again. 

[Kyp Durron]

Now that I'm finally getting a VF-0S, I can finally scratch that one off my list of things I missed out on, lol. 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Kyp Durron

[MacrossJunkie]

Grats, Kyp!

[MacrossJunkie]

On 7/24/2020 at 10:46 PM, Priss! said:

Just took out my Arcadia VF-0A copy and transformed it for the first time to Batroid and found this.

Damn!

I just looked at my 0A and it has a split in that same area except the one on mine is even larger. I can see the metal pin through the crack.

 

On another subject, I really hate that they painted the black stripe clear across the starboard wing and then Arcadia made a sticker with a white background with the 301, but the white doesn't match and looks like crap. Ended up just masking off a section of the stripe and sanding it away. Trimmed the clear backed 301 on the sheet right along the edge of each number, but still felt unsatisfied due to how thick the stickers are. I was going to use some of the decals from the Hasegawa kit, but while some look just fine despite being 1/72 scale, others are way too small. Looked around on the internet to see if anyone made upscaled versions of the Hasegawa decals and found on ebay there are 1/60 waterslides for the 0A and S based on the Arcadia sticker sheets. Happy day! Bought one of each, though they're pretty expensive for decals. My plans for the 0A and S are now on hold since these decals are shipping from China and will take a good while to arrive. Better late than never though.

Edited July 31, 2020 by MacrossJunkie

[Lolicon]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:33 AM, MacrossJunkie said:

I just looked at my 0A and it has a split in that same area except the one on mine is even larger. I can see the metal pin through the crack.

 

On another subject, I really hate that they painted the black stripe clear across the starboard wing and then Arcadia made a sticker with a white background with the 301, but the white doesn't match and looks like crap. Ended up just masking off a section of the stripe and sanding it away. Trimmed the clear backed 301 on the sheet right along the edge of each number, but still felt unsatisfied due to how thick the stickers are. I was going to use some of the decals from the Hasegawa kit, but while some look just fine despite being 1/72 scale, others are way too small. Looked around on the internet to see if anyone made upscaled versions of the Hasegawa decals and found on ebay there are 1/60 waterslides for the 0A and S based on the Arcadia sticker sheets. Happy day! Bought one of each, though they're pretty expensive for decals. My plans for the 0A and S are now on hold since these decals are shipping from China and will take a good while to arrive. Better late than never though.

I have those decal sheets. They're great for bigger markings like the UN SPACY or ejection seats or the big 301. But a lot of the smaller text markings aren't that great.  It's fine as long as you don't look too closely at it. 

All this hassle could have been avoided if they just printed 301 on the wing.

[Kyp Durron]

I don't think I'm going to bother putting on any decals, let alone the numbers, especially if the 301 for the wing is going to not look right. I love the sculpt, but Arcadia not at least putting the numbers on is beyond lame. Even Yamato at least did that much and more with their releases. 

Hmm...maybe Bandai will come out with the VF-0 series one day, at least we know they'll have all the markings and then some. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Kyp Durron

[MacrossJunkie]

24 minutes ago, Kyp Durron said:

I don't think I'm going to bother putting on any decals, let alone the numbers, especially if the 301 for the wing is going to not look right. I love the sculpt, but Arcadia not at least putting the numbers on is beyond lame. Even Yamato at least did that much and more with their releases. 

Even for past Yamato releases where they didn't but in the numbers or insignias, they at least left the space blank. Putting the black stripe straight through and then giving a white backed sticker for the modex that didn't even color match was a lazy half assed attempt. I doubt it would have been hard to have just left an empty space instead.

Here's mine after removing a part of the stripe and putting the modex on. I'm not happy with the stickers so I'm going to take these off and put decals on when I get them, which sounds to me will be mid October or something

Hmm, after seeing this so magnified, it seems I need to clean up the black stripe a bit more.