Arcadia 1/60 VF-0S & VF-0A

[no3Ljm]

Or the first 7 days for that matter just in case HLJ decides to reply very slow.

[treatment]

It doesn't make sense that Mr. K would lie about the problem. I think what Tochiro wrote is probably closer to the truth. On Twitter, people casually ask for details, or answers to questions that are not supposed to be public knowledge. Mr. K has to balance the subtlety of sharing what he can with the fact that there are customers who have expensive broken toys.

The best that we can do is to rely on the reviews of the VF-0S and verify that the fixes are good and the quality has improved.

Apart from that, we should do what Gakken recommended, and look to the retailers. If more of them had customer-friendly return policies, then Arcadia would have a better sense of these issues, as well.

Well, remember the grey-goggles shenanigans?

Based on that, I'm not as confident...

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

is the shapeways part being tested? i can't order from the site

[ChaoticYeti]

is the shapeways part being tested? i can't order from the site

Correct. Shapeways doesn't like the sprue I have on it. I am ordering a batch I pushed through with "print it anyways". I will update when they arrive.

[arbit]

I really want my -0S

I really want it to be ok

I will open and transform it within 10 days of receiving it and video the whole thing

That way, HLJ can exchange it if it falls apart and Mr. K can decide whether or not it was "user error"

I will give you a million dollars if HLJ replaces such an expensive item. Their return policy is only skin deep.

[arbit]

Tochiro did say they knew about the problem. Perhaps that response is actually an admission they did know and they've corrected something. A lack of delay isn't necessarily an indication they didn't fix something. Or course, he could also be blatantly lying on Twitter too.

Arcadia is in a bad spot here. They have just rebranded and their first line of zero releases have issues. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes. This could hurt the future of their organization. If I put myself in their shoes, they can't openly acknowledge an issue because if the line fails it would be a huge financial blow. So they have two options to protect their company, 1) deny the problem until sales are underway and then offer a fix later; or 2) acknowledge the problem now and offer fixes to anyone with problems.

If they just ignore the problem, unless its an isolated issue, a high failure rate will spell their doom.

[SuperHobo]

Oh and to add insult to injury. This large gash came from the factory and not from extending the knee. Apparently someone at Arcadia thought it was a good idea to paint the inner knee. Which is weird because the top portion of the knee joint is unpainted!! High quality they said, quality product they said. I want to throw this toy off a building to see if it flies.

[no3Ljm]

Correct. Shapeways doesn't like the sprue I have on it. I am ordering a batch I pushed through with "print it anyways". I will update when they arrive.

Cool. Thanks for the updates, Yeti.

Oh and to add insult to injury. This large gash came from the factory and not from extending the knee. Apparently someone at Arcadia thought it was a good idea to paint the inner knee. Which is weird because the top portion of the knee joint is unpainted!! High quality they said, quality product they said. I want to throw this toy off a building to see if it flies.

Apparently the toy is not molded to its respective colors. Sad to say most of the part is just painted.

[Frogze]

My 0A was almost perfect, I found a paint smudge on the shoulder which seem to be due to some strong paint solvent since it also left a mark on the plastic when someone at the factory tried to wipe it off. Not too visible since the smudge is close shade of grey anyway. Oh well, battle damage I guess.

The hips have been holding extensions and extreme posing so far so I'm not too unhappy with it.

I really hope Mr. K takes the hip failures into account for the 0S though, because it seriously sucks that people are getting broken 0A toys for that price today and it would be a fatal move for Arcadia to ignore a failure as critical as this one for the upcoming zeros.

Edited November 17, 2015 by Frogze

[Chronocidal]

Apparently the toy is not molded to its respective colors. Sad to say most of the part is just painted.

This kind of stupid shenanigans makes me want to take the engineers out back of a bulding and slap them around with pool noodles for being complete idiots.

What part of "TRANSFORMING TOY," or "MOVING PARTS" is so hard for people to understand? But it keeps happening... parts molded in the wrong color and painted over to cover it up. Bandai loves doing it, now Arcadia is deciding to follow the bad example.

Worst part is? If I read the earlier comments from Mr. K about the high product rejection rate correctly, this nonsense may even be directly responsible for the prices climbing so high. When you design a product that can't even survive assembly without massive damage to the paint applications, what do they expect to happen??

[Scyla]

I was finally brave enough to fold the wings into position for Battroid-Mode. I noticed that the backpack needs to be folded all the way upwards otherwise the nub on the in between backpack hinge will scrape the paint from the wings. Luckily I left the plastic wrap on the wings and thus it only resulted in a nasty scare on a piece of plastic wrap.

I will try to photograph it tomorrow. I also tried to determine where the paint blemishes came from on mine and came to the conclusion that these stem from assembly in the factory since they never scape on anything during transformation. I also will try to photograph them tomorrow because not it is dark outside and with the lights in the room I'm unable to pick them up with the camera.

Since my hip joints hold up fine so far I'm hesitant to get it replaced because I would rather live with the blemishes than with a detached leg.

Overall it is a very nice toy but for this price I'm less forgiving the flaws it has (easy to scratch paint and those weird issues with the hips). For any company that issues a toy for that price it would be a good advice to deliver a near perfect toy because the criticism and backlash for errors will be sever. This board is a good indicator since several people now canceled their preorder for the VF-0S even if most buyers toys seem to hold up just fine.

For me personally the missing paint markings (especially the U.N.SPACY logo on the legs and FAST parts) and the omission of the Ghost drone stretches the margin of error Arcadia is allowed to deliver paper thin before I decide that the asking price is not worth it.

I have one question for the people that disassembled the legs on their toy. Do you think that the separation of the two ball joint halves stem from an excess of super glue in the contact area? I think that if the glue is not cured all the way through it will glue the joint shut. Trying to move the leg once the joint is glued into place will result into separating the two halves because the leverage from the leg it too much for the connection.

I know that Yeti said the problem come from a too large diameter of the plastic half so I assume this would compress the plastic piece and cause the two parts to separate. However if this was the case shouldn't all the units have this problem?

[ChaoticYeti]

I was finally brave enough to fold the wings into position for Battroid-Mode. I noticed that the backpack needs to be folded all the way upwards otherwise the nub on the in between backpack hinge will scrape the paint from the wings. Luckily I left the plastic wrap on the wings and thus it only resulted in a nasty scare on a piece of plastic wrap.

I will try to photograph it tomorrow. I also tried to determine where the paint blemishes came from on mine and came to the conclusion that these stem from assembly in the factory since they never scape on anything during transformation. I also will try to photograph them tomorrow because not it is dark outside and with the lights in the room I'm unable to pick them up with the camera.

Since my hip joints hold up fine so far I'm hesitant to get it replaced because I would rather live with the blemishes than with a detached leg.

Overall it is a very nice toy but for this price I'm less forgiving the flaws it has (easy to scratch paint and those weird issues with the hips). For any company that issues a toy for that price it would be a good advice to deliver a near perfect toy because the criticism and backlash for errors will be sever. This board is a good indicator since several people now canceled their preorder for the VF-0S even if most buyers toys seem to hold up just fine.

For me personally the missing paint markings (especially the U.N.SPACY logo on the legs and FAST parts) and the omission of the Ghost drone stretches the margin of error Arcadia is allowed to deliver paper thin before I decide that the asking price is not worth it.

I have one question for the people that disassembled the legs on their toy. Do you think that the separation of the two ball joint halves stem from an excess of super glue in the contact area? I think that if the glue is not cured all the way through it will glue the joint shut. Trying to move the leg once the joint is glued into place will result into separating the two halves because the leverage from the leg it too much for the connection.

I know that Yeti said the problem come from a too large diameter of the plastic half so I assume this would compress the plastic piece and cause the two parts to separate. However if this was the case shouldn't all the units have this problem?

Good point. I changed the diameter of the ball joint by less than a mm. This could be within the factories +/- for tolerances on the ball cap. I doubt the people assembling the hip joint take care to check. Glue seepage definitely doesn't help, as glues can expand/contract when curing depending on the type of glue. I cleaned out a layer of glue from the inside of my faulty hip. The other hip has not come off on mine. This is a random qc issue, and obviously isn't affecting everyone. It could come down to just one particular assembly worker who was over-zealous with glue application and didn't care as much about checking the joint. Edited November 17, 2015 by ChaoticYeti

[seti88]

Good point. I changed the diameter of the ball joint by less than a mm. This could be within the factories +/- for tolerances on the ball cap. I doubt the people assembling the hip joint take care to check. Glue seepage definitely doesn't help, as glues can expand/contract when curing depending on the type of glue. I cleaned out a layer of glue from the inside of my faulty hip. The other hip has not come off on mine. This is a random qc issue, and obviously isn't affecting everyone. It could come down to just one particular assembly worker who was over-zealous with glue application and didn't care as much about checking the joint.

I would add there is a gap between the ball cap and the metal bar when mashed together. Likely this gap contributed to glue seepage due to insufficient surface contact to bond. I just could not get the ball to sit flush onto the metal bar.

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Once this is fixed im going to finally have completed my first transformation

[seti88]

Once this is fixed im going to finally have completed my first transformation

when it finally transformed/stood, not only did i enjoy the toy, but the sense of accomplishment was a bonus!

[Boroboy]

Well, thought I dodged this bullet, but my 0d just lost the left leg during transformation. It was always tight, but this time it looks like it just sheared the plastic half of the ball joint right off. At least I know the fix for it - thanks for the video, Yeti!

[mickyg]

I'm not sure why glue is even necessary for this cap piece. It has to be just to keep it in place while the parts are assembled. It is in no way required for the ball and socket connection to work. If the socket is closed all the way, it completely encloses even the metal half of the ball.

[ChaoticYeti]

I'm not sure why glue is even necessary for this cap piece. It has to be just to keep it in place while the parts are assembled. It is in no way required for the ball and socket connection to work. If the socket is closed all the way, it completely encloses even the metal half of the ball.

I agree. I did not use glue when repairing mine.

[seti88]

I'm not sure why glue is even necessary for this cap piece. It has to be just to keep it in place while the parts are assembled. It is in no way required for the ball and socket connection to work. If the socket is closed all the way, it completely encloses even the metal half of the ball.

its not necessary, but i thk if the ball cap was too large and the socket didnt close they may have tried to glue it in.

Call it a double whammy....

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

Well, thought I dodged this bullet, but my 0d just lost the left leg during transformation. It was always tight, but this time it looks like it just sheared the plastic half of the ball joint right off. At least I know the fix for it - thanks for the video, Yeti!

i felt the same way... once i moved it around i thought i was safe then it came right off without much force.

they'll be some captain obvious posters in the next few days right after reading this, posting: "mine's just fine."

[ChaoticYeti]

I am sure that there are some people on here who think they are a-o-k, but have yet to handle theirs much. It is the Schrodingers Valkyrie paradox.

It just sucks there are major qc issues on an otherwise awesome valkyrie.

Edited November 18, 2015 by ChaoticYeti

[anime52k8]

I still don't understand what the problem actually is.

[ChaoticYeti]

I still don't understand what the problem actually is.

Faulty hips. Leg falls off. Not affecting all. Fixes available.

[jenius]

The problem:

Any more broken leg pics?

EDIT: I guess you could argue that's "the symptom". The problem is that there is a ball (half metal, half plastic) that fits inside a housing and the tolerances must be perfect for the housing to prevent the leg from falling off. It seems like sometimes the plastic ball is just a little bit too big, or a little bit of glue gets on the plastic part of the ball, and so the housing doesn't latch down strong enough to hold the ball together and the metal part just comes right out. I would think that an imperfection in the cast of the plastic half the ball would also cause the issue as that would cause the housing to separate a bit also.

Edited November 18, 2015 by jenius

[Lolicon]

Although mine is okay for the moment, I fear it's just a time bomb waiting to detonate.

Time to open up my 0D and check it out.

[Scyla]

Maybe I can give some insight on why according to my observations this is a problem on the VF-0 toys and not on the VF-25 Renewal ones that have a similar design. On the VF-25 the plastic part is not glued onto the metal hip joint:

(I'm still looking for a replacement part btw: http://www.macrossworld.com/mwf/index.php?showtopic=39340&hl= )

The reason why this is not a problem on the Messiahs is the way the intake parts are assembled. As you see here on an image from http://anymoon.com the two parts sandwich together in a different manner:

I marked the line where the parts split with green color. This design was even present on the V1 toys as shown in the picture. With this design the hip joint as a far more secure grasp of the ball since the hole for the hip rod is smaller than the ball of the joint. So there is no way that the hip joint and the leg will separate.

With the way Arcadias intakes come together this is impossible to achieve since you need to assemble the toy somehow. On the Arcadia version the hole for the hip rod is exactly as wide as the ball of the hip joint. Again a picture from jenius' blog:

As you can see once the two halves separate (through what reason whatsoever) the leg will fall off the toy because there is nothing that holds it into the ball socket.

What Arcadia should to is to redesign the two halves of the ball socket so that the enclose the ball much further. Of course this would mean that you have probably less articulation on the legs and you can't extend the hip joint.

Sorry for the long post.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Scyla

[Hey-Pi-Ron]

What Arcadia should to is to redesign the two halves of the ball socket so that the enclose the ball much further. Of course this would mean that you have probably less articulation on the legs and you can't extend the hip joint.

Or just made it in one diecast piece for more durable of 300~$ toy. I think that price can handle this.

[Scyla]

Or just made it in one diecast piece for more durable of 300~$ toy. I think that price can handle this.

My assumption is that a fully diecast piece would not provide enough friction and/or enough of a snug fit so that the joint would work properly. The whole leg would just dangle around which would be even more disastrous I think.

Blame Kawamori for designing a Valkyrie that doesn't have enough room in the intakes for a ratcheting joint.

[charger69]

Well then..make the hip joint ball fully diecast and make the socket with frictious/snuggiest soft plastic!!

Edited November 18, 2015 by charger69

[Hey-Pi-Ron]

Well then..make the hip joint ball fully diecast and make the socket with frictious/snuggiest soft plastic!!

THIS! Like VF-1! I told ya!

Edited November 18, 2015 by Hey-Pi-Ron

[Silverstreak]

I'm not sure why glue is even necessary for this cap piece. It has to be just to keep it in place while the parts are assembled. It is in no way required for the ball and socket connection to work. If the socket is closed all the way, it completely encloses even the metal half of the ball.

The only reason I can think of is that gluing the ball halves together makes assembly easier. When I pulled apart the ankle on my Arcadia YF-19 the ball halves were not glued. But it made getting it back together a little tricky because the halves kept separating when I was reassembling it.

Either way, it's a dumb issue to have on what (for me, being in Australia) is a $400 toy.

[technoblue]

After looking at the VF-1 parts breakdown above... it seems like a really dumb issue. What does the Yamato version 1 VF-0 hip mechanism look like in comparison?

Anyway, I don't think anyone is denying that there is a QC problem. I know I appreciate the details of this discussion and jenius's time bomb description, which is making more sense as more people use their toys and report back. To that end, I've ordered some plastic prying (spludge) tools for the repair if/when the legs on mine go.

Edited November 18, 2015 by technoblue

[Gakken85]

Faulty hips. Leg falls off. Not affecting all. Fixes available.

We're unsure how many it is affecting and probably never will be. This forum is a small subsection of a small subsection.

I still haven't transformed my VF-0D and plenty of other people may not have even taken it out of the box.

I'd like to see somebody say that they worked the hip joint repeatedly and nothing broke, it seems like most people who are actually pulling the hip out are having a break.

If the mechanism is faulty it should be the same across the board, just like with the old V1 VF-11's.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Gakken85

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

should transform yours

[Gakken85]

I think I should sell it. hahaha