The SDF-3

[Guest davidwhangchoi]

why do you need an sdf-3? i saw the sdf-1 in macross frontier. Rick Hunter must've got lost and died. alto, found his ship. They also found Dolza's capital ship from robotech the movie: do you remember protoculture or something...

i own the frontier movie bluray with english subs as proof.

Happy New Year

[Gerli]

Tried this topic in our little Spanish Macross-Robotech FB Page... it didn't end well

People turn really upset with those little details.

[waters7]

I dunno about anyone else, but when I bust my butt to translate something or find some new (old) info, the second-most demoralizing thing for me to hear is, "This'll be great for my fanfic!"

You should give it a try Gubaba... the name of his fanfic is Macross Chatarra (chatarra can be translated into Junk or scrap).

Now, as far as discrepancies go between Seto's screenshot and the publications... didn't Kawamori stated in the 2nd edition of Macross Chronicle that no Macross series represent the "official" setting or history of the Macross universe?? IIRC, Macross frontier shows the first contact between Zentradi and humans in a very DYRL fashion, does that mean that the first contact between humans and Zentradi never happened the way it was depicted in SDF Macross TVA?

And if you wanna see drama about the SDF-3 subject, you should see how much it brought into Comunidad Macross Robotech in facebook... people really lost it over there.

[Seto Kaiba]

Now, as far as discrepancies go between Seto's screenshot and the publications... didn't Kawamori stated in the 2nd edition of Macross Chronicle that no Macross series represent the "official" setting or history of the Macross universe??

He's said a lot of different variations on the same basic thing in interviews and so on... the individual Macross series take place in related alternate universes or are differing interpretations/dramatizations of the "true history", and so on. It explains away various examples of zeerust and other minor inconsistencies. There's still an "official setting", which basically amounts to the chronology (shared history) and other aspects of continuity.

If there wasn't an official setting, there wouldn't be any point in the disclaimer that the Master File books Kawamori supervised carry, which says they aren't part of the official setting.

I'm inclined to lean towards the SDF-3 being Megaroad-02 because the series is, at least, supposed to be part of the "official setting" and it's corroborated by Macross Chronicle.

IIRC, Macross frontier shows the first contact between Zentradi and humans in a very DYRL fashion, does that mean that the first contact between humans and Zentradi never happened the way it was depicted in SDF Macross TVA?

Pretty much, yeah... though they've been favoring the DYRL designs for a long time now... since at least Macross Plus, unless we're counting Macross II, which favored DYRL as the more accurate of the two versions of Space War 1 as the foundation of its own version of Macross history.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Seto Kaiba

[Gubaba]

Tried this topic in our little Spanish Macross-Robotech FB Page... it didn't end well

People turn really upset with those little details.

And if you wanna see drama about the SDF-3 subject, you should see how much it brought into Comunidad Macross Robotech in facebook... people really lost it over there.

Again, and this is partially why I started this thread, I really don't understand why there's so much resistance here, even among RT fans. But yeah, mention it in a Facebook group and it leads to insults and attacks. It's baffling to me. Why do people get so angry about this?

[Einherjar]

Maybe because 2014 wasn't a good year for the franchise.

[Gerli]

Again, and this is partially why I started this thread, I really don't understand why there's so much resistance here, even among RT fans. But yeah, mention it in a Facebook group and it leads to insults and attacks. It's baffling to me. Why do people get so angry about this?

They're still angry about the Kickstarter and the Gundam/Macross-Ship-Thing

[Mommar]

I'm with Gubaba, it really shouldn't matter that much what the SDF-3 was. Robotech fans shouldn't care because The Sentinels already defines what the SDF-3 is so any supplementary Macross info. is irrelevant to that story anyway (other than most of them wish it was part of Robotech so there's more story/Valks/talent/etc...)

For the Macross fans... well, we never even saw an SDF-2 on screen, let alone the SDF-3. One thing you did mention was that the SDF ships were all Megaroad ships as well? Isn't that like giving them ship two classifications at once? I actually never even thought about what might be an SDF vessel anymore.

It's an interesting bit of psychology you've stumbled upon.

[Seto Kaiba]

For the Macross fans... well, we never even saw an SDF-2 on screen, let alone the SDF-3. One thing you did mention was that the SDF ships were all Megaroad ships as well? Isn't that like giving them ship two classifications at once?

Er... my friend, we HAVE seen the SDF-2 on screen on at least three separate occasions.

Once, at its debut in Macross Flashback 2012... and then again in setting summations at the start of episodes of Macross 7 and Macross Frontier. There are probably a couple others I'm forgetting from various video games, etc. We've also seen at least a representation of the SDF-3 courtesy of Frontier, which identifies it as a Megaroad-class emigrant ship.

As far as the Megaroad-class ships being designated SDF-#, that bit's fairly straightforward... "Megaroad" is the ship's name (as well as the name of their class), but it's not a proper military hull code/pennant number. Codes like that are used to identify both the identity and type/role of ship at a glance... a more information-rich unique identifier than just a name. It's one of those minor bits of military realism that crop up in the otherwise fanciful Macross setting. Hull codes/pennant numbers for most of the known classes of ship have cropped up at one point or another, so it'd be weird if the Megaroad-class ships DIDN'T have them. Since the original Megaroad-class ship had its inauspicious beginnings as a half-built Macross-class ship, they seem to have kept that SDF designation after the SDF-1 Macross was retired... perhaps as a nod to the Macross's role as the first ship with an internal city.

[sketchley]

For the Macross fans... well, we never even saw an SDF-2 on screen, let alone the SDF-3. One thing you did mention was that the SDF ships were all Megaroad ships as well? Isn't that like giving them ship two classifications at once? I actually never even thought about what might be an SDF vessel anymore.

Being a Macross fan can be confusing at times. It doesn't help that because the shows are created years apart with largely different production crews and they don't maintain an overall series bible, that sometimes contradictory things crop up.

The SDF/Megaroad isn't contradictory (as Seto pointed out), but it does take some time to wrap ones head around. To add to his post, maybe one should consider the Megaroad name as both the ship class (SDF Megaroad class) as well as the SLRE Fleet type name (Megaroad class SLRE Fleet led by a Megaroad class SDF).

It probably doesn't help that in-series they tend to use certain names for things, and us English speaking fans tend to use names that are different (E.g.: the bizarre tendency to call them colony fleets, when they're referred to as Emigrant Fleets both in series and in the documentation).

Over the years, I've been slowly building a disambiguation glossary of some of the major terms. I've been neglecting it more than maintaining it. But in this case, it should help to illustrate how many names there are for some of the things that appear in the Macross series: http://www.mtranslation.host-ed.me/Glossary.php

[anime52k8]

(E.g.: the bizarre tendency to call them colony fleets, when they're referred to as Emigrant Fleets both in series and in the documentation).

because the word colony/colonization better reflects what the fleets are doing to English speakers than emigrant/emigration.

Edited January 2, 2015 by anime52k8

[sketchley]

because the word colony/colonization better reflects what the fleets are doing to English speakers than emigrant/emigration.

Not really. We don't refer to the "covered wagon settlers" as "covered wagon colonists", do we?

Another thing to take into consideration is that each SF franchise has its own jargon. E.g.: class M planets in Star Trek. Why shouldn't English Macross fans enjoy the full range of SF jargon that the Japanese fans do?

[Agent ONE]

I doubt any Macross fans would be upset... RT fans, probably.

[Gubaba]

No, the one Falcon's referring to was definitely a Macross fan. His first attempt at a counter argument was to bring up the SDFN-04 Global, saying that that proved that the SDF-3 and -4 were replicas of the SDF-1.

[VF-15 Banshee]

Again, and this is partially why I started this thread, I really don't understand why there's so much resistance here, even among RT fans. But yeah, mention it in a Facebook group and it leads to insults and attacks. It's baffling to me. Why do people get so angry about this?

Because if there's one thing that fandom hates above anything else it's having their headcanon messed with. And why the crap does my computer recognize "headcanon" as a word?

[Seto Kaiba]

Because if there's one thing that fandom hates above anything else it's having their headcanon messed with. And why the crap does my computer recognize "headcanon" as a word?

I dunno... if the SDFN-4 Global was his first port of call for objections, my guess would be that the guy in question may have just not been aware of the mass-production Macross-class ships (SDFNs) were part of a separate numbering sequence from the old SDF-1 Macross and the Megaroad-class colony ships. After all, Alto and company don't really get all that specific about what the SDFN-4 was beyond it being the old flagship of the 117th Research Fleet and a "first generation Macross".

Since it's relatively common knowledge that the Megaroad-01 was converted from the Macross-class SDF-2, he may have taken the SDFN-4 to be the SDF-4, and therefore assumed that the SDFs after SDF-2 went back to being Macross-class ships.

Just a theory...

[Gubaba]

I dunno... if the SDFN-4 Global was his first port of call for objections, my guess would be that the guy in question may have just not been aware of the mass-production Macross-class ships (SDFNs) were part of a separate numbering sequence from the old SDF-1 Macross and the Megaroad-class colony ships. After all, Alto and company don't really get all that specific about what the SDFN-4 was beyond it being the old flagship of the 117th Research Fleet and a "first generation Macross".

Since it's relatively common knowledge that the Megaroad-01 was converted from the Macross-class SDF-2, he may have taken the SDFN-4 to be the SDF-4, and therefore assumed that the SDFs after SDF-2 went back to being Macross-class ships.

Just a theory...

Yeah, I told him that the SDFN series wasn't the same as the SDF series. He replied that he wanted the time spent talking to me back and called me a moron.

[HannouHeiki]

Not really. We don't refer to the "covered wagon settlers" as "covered wagon colonists", do we?

Another thing to take into consideration is that each SF franchise has its own jargon. E.g.: class M planets in Star Trek. Why shouldn't English Macross fans enjoy the full range of SF jargon that the Japanese fans do?

As someone who is working on a personal Macross harmonization project, I second the sentiment that Macross should have its own set of terminology. Fansubs have a nasty habit of "converting" terms to match Western military terms or mimic terms from other sci-fi series.

[sketchley]

As someone who is working on a personal Macross harmonization project, I second the sentiment that Macross should have its own set of terminology. Fansubs have a nasty habit of "converting" terms to match Western military terms or mimic terms from other sci-fi series.

If you haven't seen it already, here's a great place to start with a set of Macross terms (Macross Chronicle's Glossary): http://www.mtranslation.host-ed.me/MCRglossary/MCRglossary.php

[HannouHeiki]

If you haven't seen it already, here's a great place to start with a set of Macross terms (Macross Chronicle's Glossary): http://www.mtranslation.host-ed.me/MCRglossary/MCRglossary.php

I saw you post that earlier in the thread. I can't wait to go through it, I'm not sure if I've gone through that part.

I actually refer to your translations a lot. I really appreciate your translation approach as well. It's so straightforward, and I guess "unfiltered," in a way that makes me feel more connected with the source material.

And a unique thing that I appreciate is you don't use those messy Zentradi romanizations...thanks to you I know how "Gnerl" is correctly pronounced!

[Seto Kaiba]

Yeah, I told him that the SDFN series wasn't the same as the SDF series. He replied that he wanted the time spent talking to me back and called me a moron.

Huh... well, that explains that then. I'm sure we all remember the big fuss when we got our first glimpse of what turned out to be the SDFN-04 General Bruno J. Global in Macross Frontier. There was a LOT of confusion over what that ship represented, due in no small measure to the then-common belief that the SDF-1 Macross and the partially-complete SDF-2 were the sole existing examples of the Macross-class. (Mass-produced Macross-class ships having previously been something unique to the Macross II-verse.)

I don't remember, did they actually use the designation SDFN in the dialog? I'll have to review it later. It certainly explains that guy's confusion... especially since hull codes are prone to occasional changes in real life. IIRC, the last USS Enterprise (a one-off Enterprise-class carrier) had its hull code changed twice during its service life... from CVA-65 to CVAN-65, and then to CVN-65. Did we ever clear up what the N is in SDFN?

As someone who is working on a personal Macross harmonization project, I second the sentiment that Macross should have its own set of terminology. Fansubs have a nasty habit of "converting" terms to match Western military terms or mimic terms from other sci-fi series.

Oh, it's absolutely true that the fansub people tend to screw up the terminology a lot... though it's easy to forgive them, since the majority of them aren't really what you'd call die-hard Macross fans with access to the kind of information we have. It's a little bit less easy to overlook it when regional distributors/licensees screw up like that. US Renditions screwed up so hard they even got the year the show was set in wrong, and misspelled the name of the antagonists despite being supplied with the correct spelling IN ENGLISH.

[Gubaba]

I don't remember, did they actually use the designation SDFN in the dialog? I'll have to review it later. It certainly explains that guy's confusion... especially since hull codes are prone to occasional changes in real life. IIRC, the last USS Enterprise (a one-off Enterprise-class carrier) had its hull code changed twice during its service life... from CVA-65 to CVAN-65, and then to CVN-65. Did we ever clear up what the N is in SDFN?

The same guy said it stood for "New United Nations," but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. And I'm pretty sure it was first mentioned in Chronicle. That's the first place I saw it, at least.

[sketchley]

I saw you post that earlier in the thread. I can't wait to go through it, I'm not sure if I've gone through that part.

I actually refer to your translations a lot. I really appreciate your translation approach as well. It's so straightforward, and I guess "unfiltered," in a way that makes me feel more connected with the source material.

And a unique thing that I appreciate is you don't use those messy Zentradi romanizations...thanks to you I know how "Gnerl" is correctly pronounced!

Uhm, I've posted 2 different glossaries in this topic. The 1st is the one that I'm building. The 2nd is a translation of the one that was printed in Macross chronicle. The 2nd one is more complete, but it doesn't have the disambiguation aspect that I'm building into the 1st.

(...) Did we ever clear up what the N is in SDFN? (...)

Not that I can recall.

Oh, it's absolutely true that the fansub people tend to screw up the terminology a lot... though it's easy to forgive them, since the majority of them aren't really what you'd call die-hard Macross fans with access to the kind of information we have. (...)

Well... there are some that are just unforgivable. I have one that transcribes "VF-25" as "Brief 25"!

[Einherjar]

Those Facebook groups really need something better to argue about after 30 years.

[HannouHeiki]

I really liked the idea of the SDF-3 being Britai's ship, as it would make sense that it is the capable "super dimension" (hyperspace-time) "fortress" class ship in the Unified Forces inventory. It has been accepted that the Megaroad class ships are lightly armed with only the attached ARMDs for armament. While it makes sense that Megaroad-01 carries the SDF designation since it is a converted during construction, I don't think the "fortress" designation should have been transferred to subsequent Megaroad class ships. The SDF-1 and SDF-2 designs were clearly warships. (on a tangent, if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think the opening text on the DYRL BD should have referred to the SDF-1 as an emigrant ship either). I think this is supported by the fact that publications make the explanation that the SDF-2 needed to be converted from its original design to be an emigrant ship.

I took a peek at what I understand is the Japanese Macross wiki to see if I could find insight about the "N" in SDFN. I only dabble in Japanese and used Chrome's translate function.

Section is titled as: 第一世代型マクロス級（SDFN） = First Generation Model Macross Class (SDFN)

Entries mention: マクロス級1番艦 （SDFN-1） = Macross Class No.1 Ship (SDFN-1)
マクロス級4番艦（SDFN-4） = Macross Class No.4 Ship (SDFN-4)

I was thinking that "SDF" was being understood as "Macross Class" and the "N" being "number," but that's more likely an interpretation from Chrome's translation rather than the original Japanese. That interpretation wouldn't be consistent with the section's title either.

The wiki goes on to use "NMCV" to describe the New Macross Class, ("CV" being the hull code used for real life carriers).

Anyway...I guess I didn't really learn anything that wasn't known or assumed. But since the "N" in NMCV seems to mean "New," that can be supportive that the meaning carries over to SDFN.

I did find it interesting that a lot of the Japanese wiki pages had "Robotech" sections at the end...although it makes sense, it's still surprising to see Japanese fans bothering to go through the trouble!

Edited January 5, 2015 by HannouHeiki

[VF-15 Banshee]

Yeah, I told him that the SDFN series wasn't the same as the SDF series. He replied that he wanted the time spent talking to me back and called me a moron.

LOL what a mook.

I really liked the idea of the SDF-3 being Britai's ship, as it would make sense that it is the capable "super dimension" (hyperspace-time) "fortress" class ship in the Unified Forces inventory. It has been accepted that the Megaroad class ships are lightly armed with only the attached ARMDs for armament. While it makes sense that Megaroad-01 carries the SDF designation since it is a converted during construction, I don't think the "fortress" designation should have been transferred to subsequent Megaroad class ships. The SDF-1 and SDF-2 designs were clearly warships. (on a tangent, if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think the opening text on the DYRL BD should have referred to the SDF-1 as an emigrant ship either). I think this is supported by the fact that publications make the explanation that the SDF-2 needed to be converted from its original design to be an emigrant ship.

I took a peek at what I understand is the Japanese Macross wiki to see if I could find insight about the "N" in SDFN. I only dabble in Japanese and used Chrome's translate function.

Section is titled as: 第一世代型マクロス級（SDFN） (First Generation Type Macross Class)

Entries mention: マクロス級1番艦（SDFN-1） (Macross Class Ship No.1)

マクロス級4番艦（SDFN-4） (Macross Class Ship No.4)

I was thinking that "SDF" was being understood as "Macross Class" and the "N" being "number," but that's more likely an interpretation from Chrome's translation rather than the original Japanese. That interpretation wouldn't be consistent with the section's title either.

The wiki goes on to use "NMCV" to describe the New Macross Class, ("CV" being the hull code used for real life carriers).

Anyway...I guess I didn't really learn anything that wasn't known or assumed. But since the "N" in NMCV seems to mean "New," that can be supportive that the meaning carries over to SDFN.

I did find it interesting that a lot of the Japanese wiki pages had "Robotech" sections at the end...although it makes sense, it's still surprising to see Japanese fans bothering to go through the trouble!

NMCV eh? That's interesting.

I suspect they just threw the N onto SDFN just because. The White Base from Gundam has at least three different hull codes itself: SCV-70, LMSD-71 and MSC-02.

[sketchley]

Section is titled as: 第一世代型マクロス級（SDFN） = First Generation Model Macross Class (SDFN)

Entries mention: マクロス級1番艦 （SDFN-1） = Macross Class No.1 Ship (SDFN-1)

マクロス級4番艦（SDFN-4） = Macross Class No.4 Ship (SDFN-4)

Fixed! (translation, so it exactly matches the parsing)

Edited January 5, 2015 by sketchley

[HannouHeiki]

quick edit applied! I like your attention to detail. ;^.^

Edited January 5, 2015 by HannouHeiki

[HannouHeiki]

I suspect they just threw the N onto SDFN just because. The White Base from Gundam has at least three different hull codes itself: SCV-70, LMSD-71 and MSC-02.

I'm thinking they started using SDFN because the intro already gave away the SDF designation to the Megaroad ships. If the Britai SDF-3 thing was more pervasive in the fandom, it could have carried over into the show and the Megaroad class wouldn't have "stolen" the SDF hull code. Then maybe the SDFN-1 would've been designated as the SDF-4 and so on.

I just noticed that on the Japanese wiki's ARMD page 宇宙空母アームド =(uchuu kuubo a'mudo) ---> Space Carrier Armed) is translated by Google Chrome as "Battlestar Armed." LOL

Edited January 5, 2015 by HannouHeiki

[Seto Kaiba]

Those Facebook groups really need something better to argue about after 30 years.

Well... if it's the Robotech ones, they haven't had any new material to argue about in thirty years, so...

It has been accepted that the Megaroad class ships are lightly armed with only the attached ARMDs for armament.

's there actually a source for that? I know Chronicle says the Megaroad-class's armaments were light/negligible, but I don't recall anything that says the Megaroad-class had attached ARMDs.

(on a tangent, if I'm remembering correctly, I don't think the opening text on the DYRL BD should have referred to the SDF-1 as an emigrant ship either).

Pretty sure they've standing on an old bit of lore there, about the DYRL version (and, IIRC, possibly the series version) having originally been intended for extrasolar exploration.

The wiki goes on to use "NMCV" to describe the New Macross Class, ("CV" being the hull code used for real life carriers).

That's also from the opening bit in Macross Frontier alluded to earlier... and corroborated by Macross Chronicle, same as the Megaroad-class's SDF hull code. Carriers in Macross using the real-world CV ain't new... though presumably they went with NMCV to differentiate them from the (much smaller) carriers using other flavors of CV.

The ARMD-class space carriers carried the dual code of ARMD/SCV initially (goes back to at least Sky Angels in '84), and then they dropped the leading S somewhere between then and the Guantanamo-class (which is ARMD/CV). After that, it appears it dropped the ARMD entirely, so all carriers are just using CV and mission specific variations thereof. (The Uraga-class is seen using CV and CVS, the Guantanamo-class uses CV and CVR, the Valhalla III-type uses VCV, etc.)

I did find it interesting that a lot of the Japanese wiki pages had "Robotech" sections at the end...although it makes sense, it's still surprising to see Japanese fans bothering to go through the trouble!

I'd have to double-check, but I'm pretty sure that's the work of just one (well-intentioned) fan... yui. She's not always accurate, but she's a fan of both shows (IIRC she's an army kid?) and tries to add their stuff in separate sections on the Japanese Wiki pages for Macross, Southern Cross, and MOSPEADA.

I'm thinking they started using SDFN because the intro already gave away the SDF designation to the Megaroad ships. If the Britai SDF-3 thing was more pervasive in the fandom, it could have carried over into the show and the Megaroad class wouldn't have "stolen" the SDF hull code. Then maybe the SDFN-1 would've been designated as the SDF-4 and so on.

Really, I think that ship sailed a loooooooong time ago... certainly long before Macross Frontier.

The creators of Macross had already earmarked the SDF-2 as an emigrant ship before Masahiro Chiba's doujinshi set down the idea that Britai's ship was the SDF-3. True, they didn't decide that it wasn't going to remain a Macross-class ship until later, but since Sky Angels was just a doujinshi I don't think they felt much obligation to follow what was in there. I think the deal was likely sealed by the time Macross 7 went to air, and they established that there had been at least a dozen later Megaroad-class ships, and the Megaroad-class had been thoroughly established as a Macross-class derivative.

My guess would be SDFN came about because SDF was already earmarked for the Megaroad-class emigrant ships, and they felt it'd have more resonance than if they went the New Macross-class round and used MCV.

I just noticed that on the Japanese wiki's ARMD page 宇宙空母アームド [/size]=(uchuu kuubo a'mudo) [/size]---> Space Carrier Armed) is translated by Google Chrome as "Battlestar Armed." LOL[/size]

That's almost as bad as the actual meaning of ARMD... Armaments Rigged-up Moving Deck.

[anime52k8]

That's almost as bad as the actual meaning of ARMD... Armaments Rigged-up Moving Deck.

I think this may account for why some people don't like to use proper show jargon. some of it is pretty weird to read/say.

[HannouHeiki]

's there actually a source for that? I know Chronicle says the Megaroad-class's armaments were light/negligible, but I don't recall anything that says the Megaroad-class had attached ARMDs.

I'm going visually.

Going by that, to me, those are clearly ARMD platforms. I admit that they do seem to be built into the main hull itself. It's so hard to get good images with good angles on the Megaroad, but in a high quality rear isometric view I'm sure you can see the characteristic "teeth" of the movie style ARMD. Anyway...whether they are ARMD style hangars or independent ships that are docked, I was meaning the fighter complements of those "arms" when I mentioned armaments.

My guess would be SDFN came about because SDF was already earmarked for the Megaroad-class emigrant ships, and they felt it'd have more resonance than if they went the New Macross-class round and used MCV.

That's what I was basically trying to say..."earmarked" was the kind of word I was looking for.

That's almost as bad as the actual meaning of ARMD... Armaments Rigged-up Moving Deck.

It's not so bad to me, because I see an attempt to make a reference:

• AFDB: Large Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock
• AFDL: Small Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock
• AFDM: Medium Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock
• AFDS: Auxiliary Fighter Directing Ship

Toss the above terms in a crock-pot, throw in "robot arms," aircraft carrier deck, and some reaction missiles and you get "ARMD."

Looking at it that way, it makes no sense to call the newer CVs "ARMD" because New Macross ships have hands now.

[Seto Kaiba]

I'm going visually.

Going by that, to me, those are clearly ARMD platforms. I admit that they do seem to be built into the main hull itself.

Hmm... true, that bit down there near the stern does look a fair bit like an ARMD-class space carrier, but I can't find anything in the printed materials that suggests the Megaroad-class colony ships had docked ARMDs. My guess would be that's probably just part of the hull, either a stylistic coincidence or the result of someone (in-universe) cutting corners on the design by using appropriating parts of the ARMD-class's design (or possibly incomplete ARMDs themselves) to make a quick and dirty hangar.

We've only seen that general part of the ship up close once... in Macross M3's opening, but in that animation Max and Milia were shown launching from those two black slits right below the top of the "outrigger", well away from the ARMD-lookin' bit.

As hull codes go, "Super Dimension Fortress" is awfully vague... so I don't think it necessarily has to entail the ship having any real combat ability at all. Almost all the other ships with known hull codes are based on real world ones that identify their actual combat role in familiar terms (carriers, frigates, etc.). It kind of implies that the ship is protecting something inside itself... which would make sense when you consider that it ended up containing a city, and the Megaroad-class was little more than a city in a bubble with engines on one end.

It's not so bad to me, because I see an attempt to make a reference:

• AFDB: Large Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock
• AFDL: Small Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock
• AFDM: Medium Auxiliary Floating Dry Dock
• AFDS: Auxiliary Fighter Directing Ship

Toss the above terms in a crock-pot, throw in "robot arms," aircraft carrier deck, and some reaction missiles and you get "ARMD."

Looking at it that way, it makes no sense to call the newer CVs "ARMD" because New Macross ships have hands now.

Possible... but I'm not sure that's the source.

Docking to a larger ship isn't really part of the "ARMD" designation though... just that it's one big carrier deck with engines and weapons installed. That's a pretty fair description of almost every carrier out there... though it seems likely that the reason it's qualified that way is that the ARMDs were originally designed to be stationary orbital airstrips for planetary defense.

Not sure why they let it fall out of use...

[HannouHeiki]

Look at these:

Those are AFDMs. Notice the resemblance? Just flip it upside down and then you can call it a Deck. Then attach it to the Macross, where it becomes an ARM. Now that we have our joke, we make up what it means so we can pretend it's really an acronym.

My crock-pot reference of robot arms, AFDMs, reaction missiles, and carrier deck is me trying to illustrate that the ARMD term is just a sign of the designer's inspiration for the ship and a joke about them being arms. In terms of production context, the term is a reference and a joke. Taking the term too seriously would miss the point...

I don't think ARMDs fell out of use at all. They just lost the ARMD designation because the "arms" joke doesn't really carry over anymore since New Macross ships can flip you the finger and sucker punch bad guys on its own.

The ARMD was just replaced by a newer model, the Guantanamo. The Guantanamo is the "current" ARMD, just like the NCC-1701-D being the TNG's next Enterprise, and every VF being the new "Valkyrie." I think a bunch were in orbit around Earth in Macross Plus, so the original ARMD's legacy continues...

QUOTE

As hull codes go, "Super Dimension Fortress" is awfully vague... so I don't think it necessarily has to entail the ship having any real combat ability at all. Almost all the other ships with known hull codes are based on real world ones that identify their actual combat role in familiar terms (carriers, frigates, etc.). It kind of implies that the ship is protecting something inside itself... which would make sense when you consider that it ended up containing a city, and the Megaroad-class was little more than a city in a bubble with engines on one end.

Well, "Super Dimension" can also be literally translated as "Hyper Space-Time." If "Super Dimension" and SDF were not used at all, a translator could make the argument that an effective translation would be "Hyper Space Fortress." Anyway, my interpretation is that Super Dimension just means that it is fold capable or that it uses "Super Dimension" energy. "Fortress" carries a military context in my personal interpretation. But I guess the only requirement is that it holds and protects something.

Now that I think about it, my problem with the SDF term on Megaroad ships is not the lack of weapons, but that it looks fragile. So much glass...it looks like it would shatter if I dropped it! Maybe I'm wrong for assuming that it is fragile...

I guess if you slap on a good barrier system it would be okay to call it a Fortress, or SDF. It's not my preference but I'm warming up a little bit.

I just have memories as a kid stomping around the house going "SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS.....FIRE......SHEEOOOOKH.....BOOOM!" so I guess I'll grow up a little and realize that Fortress doesn't have to mean "battleship."

Edited January 6, 2015 by HannouHeiki

[Mr March]

I know it can be difficult to divorce the perception of a transparent material as anything other than glass becuase that's what we know in our everyday life. But I think it goes without saying the material used for the transparent sections of Macross space ships cannot be glass simply due to the structural demands of such a craft.

That said, they do mention in the Macross fiction that immigration ships use special transparent alloys, naturally they are unexplained in nature and have silly names. The Stellar Whale Passenger Ship indicates the transparent pellucida of immigration ships is composed of a special alloy called "Herculite", by name alone the term is obviously meant to imply a fictional super-strong transparent material. Which would make sense given the ridiculous structural strength requirements of the ships in the Macross universe.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Mr March