The SDF-3

[Gubaba]

Nope, this guy was a Macross fan who could read Japanese allegedly.

And apparently had a bunch of sources proving that Britai's ship WASN'T the SDF-3. None of which he produced, of course.

[Seto Kaiba]

Damn, good find!

There's a lot of stuff from the Variable Fighter Master File's VF-1 books that came right out of the Sky Angels book, so I figured this tidbit could've as well... and just our luck, it turns out it did. Can't believe I didn't notice it before now.

Nope, this guy was a Macross fan who could read Japanese allegedly.

Oy vey... one of those. Had a fun run-in with a bloke like that not too long ago who clearly picked the title of the first Macross publication he could think of when prompted for his source. Unfortunately for him, the first title that popped into his head was that of a Macross 7 h-doujinshi.

I wonder what he thought the SDF-3 was? A Megaroad-class ship, most likely... considering the Megaroad ships we see in that little galactic chart in the first few episodes of Frontier ARE all marked "SDF".

[Seto Kaiba]

Er... so... I may have actually validated the complaint that Britai's ship CANNOT be the SDF-3. This is awkward.

This is from 2 minutes, 27 seconds into the "Yak Deculture" edition of Macross Frontier episode 1.

Note the circled ship marker... Megaroad 02 and the marking below it, SDF-003.

EDIT: Just for shiggles, the other ships visible are Megaroads 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13, and Macross-1, -3, -5, -7, and Frontier. There's also a fun screwup when they get to showing Eden, and two Macross-17's are shown.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Seto Kaiba

[Falconkpd]

[anime52k8]

Er... so... I may have actually validated the complaint that Britai's ship CANNOT be the SDF-3.

This is from 2 minutes, 27 seconds into the "Yak Deculture" edition of Macross Frontier episode 1.

HeMayHaveHadAPoint.PNG

Note the circled ship marker... Megaroad 02 and the marking below it, SDF-003.

EDIT: Just for shiggles, the other ships visible are Megaroads 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13, and Macross-1, -3, -5, -7, and Frontier. There's also a fun screwup when they get to showing Eden, and two Macross-17's are shown.

but that sequence isn't cannon, because reasons.

[Gubaba]

but that sequence isn't cannon, because reasons.

Neither is Sky Angels, also because reasons.

So we've got two sources claiming that the SDF-3 IS Britai's ship, and two claiming that it ISN'T. And all four are suspect for various reasons.

Great.

[Falconkpd]

Neither is Sky Angels, also because reasons.

So we've got two sources claiming that the SDF-3 IS Britai's ship, and two claiming that it ISN'T. And all four are suspect for various reasons.

Great.

The ride truly never ends. Wanna flip a coin and pick one?

[Seto Kaiba]

Neither is Sky Angels, also because reasons.

So we've got two sources claiming that the SDF-3 IS Britai's ship, and two claiming that it ISN'T. And all four are suspect for various reasons.

Great.

Eech... yeah, that's a bloody mess.

My gut reaction would be to go with the SDF-3 being a Megaroad-class ship since that comes from a show, as the Master File books self-identify as not part of the "official setting", but I could see a decent argument for going either way. I'm not sure if I'd call the diagram in the show "most reliable" so much as "least suspect".

[Einherjar]

Nope, this guy was a Macross fan who could read Japanese allegedly.

Considering the group (and yes, I've seen the group) I really doubt all of that person's background, especially the Macross part. It is Facebook, after all.

[Falconkpd]

Considering the group (and yes, I've seen the group) I really doubt all of that person's background, especially the Macross part. It is Facebook, after all.

Gubaba can confirm.

[JB0]

Er... so... I may have actually validated the complaint that Britai's ship CANNOT be the SDF-3. This is awkward.

This is from 2 minutes, 27 seconds into the "Yak Deculture" edition of Macross Frontier episode 1.

HeMayHaveHadAPoint.PNG

Note the circled ship marker... Megaroad 02 and the marking below it, SDF-003.

EDIT: Just for shiggles, the other ships visible are Megaroads 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13, and Macross-1, -3, -5, -7, and Frontier. There's also a fun screwup when they get to showing Eden, and two Macross-17's are shown.

What if SDF-003 and SDF-3 AREN'T the same thing? Something like civilian vessels get a 00 prepended to their number while military vessels don't?

Or what if Britai's flagship WAS the SDF-3 before a fold accident sent it backwards in time and he became the first Robotech Master?

[vsim]

What if the original SDF-03 was later renamed again? (*runs and hides*)

[Gubaba]

Considering the group (and yes, I've seen the group) I really doubt all of that person's background, especially the Macross part. It is Facebook, after all.

Well, there were several people getting really pissed about this, in a couple of different groups. The one Falcon is referring to was definitely a Macross fan, who's (I think) Japanese American. The guy I think YOU'RE thinking of has at least seen some Macross, but yeah, is primarily a Robotech fan.

What if SDF-003 and SDF-3 AREN'T the same thing? Something like civilian vessels get a 00 prepended to their number while military vessels don't?

But the Megaroad-01 is listed in the same pic as the SDF-002... Edited December 31, 2014 by Gubaba

[Falconkpd]

Can we take this moment to appreciate the fact that there is supposedly both an SDF-1 and an SDFN-1; two identical ships?

[Seto Kaiba]

What if SDF-003 and SDF-3 AREN'T the same thing? Something like civilian vessels get a 00 prepended to their number while military vessels don't?

Gubaba hit the nail on the head there... they show Megaroad-01 as SDF-002 as well, so it seems to be just formatting in their presentation. Also, wasn't Megaroad-01 a military-led expedition anyway? Misa was its captain, anyway...

Or what if Britai's flagship WAS the SDF-3 before a fold accident sent it backwards in time and he became the first Robotech Master?

I think I threw up a little in my mouth when I read that...

Can we take this moment to appreciate the fact that there is supposedly both an SDF-1 and an SDFN-1; two identical ships?

lol, yeah... that's a bad one. Hopefully the mass-produced Macross-class ships were not put into the same fleets with Megaroad ships that shared the same number. IIRC, they made twelve of the mass production Macross-class SDFNs too... though we've only seen two for sure (SDFN-4 and SDFN-8, my pet theory is that in-universe DYRL was filmed with SDFN-1).

What if the original SDF-03 was later renamed again? (*runs and hides*)

I dunno... the reason the Megaroad-class apparently inherited the SDF designation was that the original ship of the class was originally laid down as a second Macross-class ship, so the convention theoretically predates the commissioning of Britai's old ship into the UN Forces space fleet.

[Falconkpd]

lol, yeah... that's a bad one. Hopefully the mass-produced Macross-class ships were not put into the same fleets with Megaroad ships that shared the same number. IIRC, they made twelve of the mass production Macross-class SDFNs too... though we've only seen two for sure (SDFN-4 and SDFN-8, my pet theory is that in-universe DYRL was filmed with SDFN-1).

As Kawamori recently said, everything and nothing is canon. In a way, it gives us as fans the ability to be creative with such ideas. Neoka calls it "head-canon".

[Gerli]

Yay! More Fan-Fic material (?)

[Gubaba]

Yay! More Fan-Fic material (?)

I dunno about anyone else, but when I bust my butt to translate something or find some new (old) info, the second-most demoralizing thing for me to hear is, "This'll be great for my fanfic!"

[anime52k8]

I dunno about anyone else, but when I bust my butt to translate something or find some new (old) info, the second-most demoralizing thing for me to hear is, "This'll be great for my fanfic!"

what's the most demoralizing thing? (for future reference).

[Nekko Basara]

what's the most demoralizing thing? (for future reference).

"This'll be great for my ROBOTECH fanfic!"

[Gubaba]

"This'll be great for my ROBOTECH fanfic!"

Dammit, you stole my punchline...

EDIT: well, it was between that and "This'll be great for my Robotech RPG site!"

Edited December 31, 2014 by Gubaba

[anime52k8]

Dammit, you stole my punchline...

EDIT: well, it was between that and "This'll be great for my Robotech RPG site!"

is there really a difference?

[Gubaba]

is there really a difference?

Not really, I guess... :-/

[Thom]

Er... so... I may have actually validated the complaint that Britai's ship CANNOT be the SDF-3. This is awkward.

This is from 2 minutes, 27 seconds into the "Yak Deculture" edition of Macross Frontier episode 1.

HeMayHaveHadAPoint.PNG

Note the circled ship marker... Megaroad 02 and the marking below it, SDF-003.

EDIT: Just for shiggles, the other ships visible are Megaroads 1, 4, 6, 9, and 13, and Macross-1, -3, -5, -7, and Frontier. There's also a fun screwup when they get to showing Eden, and two Macross-17's are shown.

Not knowing much about this, other than Britai's ship being renamed SDF-3 seems logical seeing how so few ships were left after the war, could it be possible that the labelling of SDF-003 is just telling that Britai's ship is accompanying the Megaroad 001 and not just another designator for the colony ship?

Edited January 1, 2015 by Thom

[Seto Kaiba]

Dammit, you stole my punchline...

EDIT: well, it was between that and "This'll be great for my Robotech RPG site!"

I know that pain only too well...

Not knowing much about this, other than Britai's ship being renamed SDF-3 seems logical seeing how so few ships were left after the war, could it be possible that the labelling of SDF-003 is just telling that Britai's ship is accompanying the Megaroad 001 and not just another designator for the colony ship?

Er... no, I'm afraid not. Look again at that screen capture I posted.

Based on that diagram from Macross Frontier, the designation SDF-003 (SDF-3) was assigned to the colony ship Megaroad-02, second ship of the Megaroad-class. That ship wasn't launched until two years after Megaroad-01, and was the core of a whole separate colony fleet, as corroborated in that in-series graphic. Megaroad-01 has its own separate marker on the chart, as you see, just to the left of Megaroad-02 in that capture. The graphic doesn't show escort ships or anything like that, it only shows all the long-distance emigrant ships progress through the galaxy. All the Megaroad-class ships in the graphic have the offset-by-1 SDF designation (SDF-3 Megaroad-02, SDF-10 Megaroad-09, etc.)

[sketchley]

(...) Hopefully the mass-produced Macross-class ships were not put into the same fleets with Megaroad ships that shared the same number. IIRC, they made twelve of the mass production Macross-class SDFNs too... though we've only seen two for sure (SDFN-4 and SDFN-8,(...)

If memory serves, they were sent out in advance of the still being produced Megaroad fleets to scout out routes for the fleets to safely travel. So, there's a possibility that the same numbered ships followed the same courses, but not likely that they travelled together, in the same fleet.

[Brand-X]

There's also the possibility that immediately after the war there wasn't the manufacturing capability to continue the Megaroad-class, so they numbered Britai's ship the SDF-3, then later as recovery happened, they decided to re-classify Britai's ship and reserve the SDF prefix for the Megaroad-class and subsequent colony ships. It wouldn't be the first time in history that a ship had been renumbered.

[Seto Kaiba]

There's also the possibility that immediately after the war there wasn't the manufacturing capability to continue the Megaroad-class, so they numbered Britai's ship the SDF-3, then later as recovery happened, they decided to re-classify Britai's ship and reserve the SDF prefix for the Megaroad-class and subsequent colony ships. It wouldn't be the first time in history that a ship had been renumbered.

Nah, the UN Forces had a couple manufacturing bases that survived the war intact even before they went out capturing a bunch of factory satellites in Britai's ship. Specifically, they still had the L-5 Manufacturing Station at Earth-Moon L5 (the shipyard which built the ARMD-class space carriers) and the Apollo Base yards on Luna (which were building the SDF-2).

According to the series chronology, three months from the war's nominal conclusion in March 2010, shipbuilding activities had resumed at the Apollo Base yards... six months before Britai's old ship was recommissioned as the first new battleship of the post-war UN Forces space fleet. Also, based on the information we have for the Megaroad-class, construction of both SDF-3 Megaroad-02 and SDF-4 Megaroad-03 had begun in September 2010, three months before Britai's ship was recommissioned into the UN Spacy's service... meaning SDF-3 would've already been assigned for three months at the time Britai's ship was to formally enter UN Forces service.

[Gubaba]

The only other thing I can think of that might help is the fact that there are two distinctly different Macross 13 battleships...

[Seto Kaiba]

The only other thing I can think of that might help is the fact that there are two distinctly different Macross 13 battleships...

A fair point... though I thought that was because "Macross 13" was a code name assigned to Macross warships that didn't officially exist or something to that effect?

On a side note, it appears Macross Chronicle's revised edition corroborates the SDF-3 = Megaroad-02 stance on Worldguide 12C's (Super Long-Range Emigrant Fleets) back side. (A friend pointed this one out to me, courtesy of sketchley's website.)

[JB0]

Gubaba hit the nail on the head there... they show Megaroad-01 as SDF-002 as well, so it seems to be just formatting in their presentation. Also, wasn't Megaroad-01 a military-led expedition anyway? Misa was its captain, anyway...

Feh.

Clearly the Megaroad-01, AKA SDF-002, had an escort battleship in the SDF-2. It's like how the New Macross class has a City-# and Battle-#.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

I think I threw up a little in my mouth when I read that...

Then my work here is done.

[terry the lone wolf]

I always wondered why the SDF 3 in Sentinels used the Zentradi style and it wasn't able transform. I always accepted their Trojan horse theory or "Gun boat diplomacy" theory. Looks like Macek did a little research from whatever production notes he gained from Tatsunoko and since he couldn't use Breetai ship for Sentinels a new SDF-3 was designed. You'll notice the VF-1 WOLF PACK..

[Gubaba]

I always wondered why the SDF 3 in Sentinels used the Zentradi style and it wasn't able transform. I always accepted their Trojan horse theory or "Gun boat diplomacy" theory. Looks like Macek did a little research from whatever production notes he gained from Tatsunoko and since he couldn't use Breetai ship for Sentinels a new SDF-3 was designed. You'll notice the VF-1 WOLF PACK..

Um... You ARE being sarcastic... Right...?

[terry the lone wolf]

Um... You ARE being sarcastic... Right...?

Well..How do you explain the SDF-3 in Sentinels being a Zentradi design while it appears the SDF-3 in Macross is Breetai's flag ship? I think it's plausible Macek cheery picked through certain production notes from Macross and used them for Sentinels.

Edited January 1, 2015 by terry the lone wolf

[Seto Kaiba]

Well..How do you explain the SDF-3 in Sentinels being a Zentradi design while it appears the SDF-3 in Macross is Breetai's flag ship? I think it's plausible Macek cheery picked through certain production notes from Macross and used them for Sentinels.

Err... terry, you got a couple false assumptions here.

First, that tidbit isn't from Macross's production materials... the SDF-3 allegedly being Britai's old ship is something that comes to us from the "Sky Angels" VF-1 Valkyrie tech manual. That book's a doujinshi, and one that was published the year after Super Dimension Fortress Macross finished its initial broadcast run. It's not, AFAIK, something that shows up in the show's production notes. The Master File series picked it up because it's a spiritual successor to the Sky Angels book, and copies a lot of material out of Chiba's work on the doujinshi... but Master File also self-identifies as not part of the official Macross setting.

Second, what you referred to as the gunboat diplomacy theory and trojan horse theory in Macek's "original" work aren't theories... both of those are actually things explicitly mentioned in Macek's (unmentionable) series. The gunboat diplomacy thing comes up as the mission of the SDF-2 in Macek's loose adaptation of Macross, and the trojan horse thing is discussed in what little footage was completed for Sentinels. The WOLFPACK thing is a coincidence... or an unrelated homage to the real-world squadron.