Hi-Metal R

[beatsing]

13 hours ago, ArchieNov said:

That sounds kinda...  erotic? 

Ha ha did you grow up in the Era of free love? ☺

[gingaio]

So I finally picked up some HMR valks after wading in with the Destroids and the Glaug. Have to say...starting off with the other mecha before moving on to the valks leaves the valks feeling a bit underwhelming. Anticlimactic, to say the least. Granted, the other mecha don't have to transform, and it's because of that, perhaps that they feel so much more robust as toys. The valks just feel a bit chintzy. They look fine on display, but man, I really hope Bandai releases a DX VF-1 soon. I've had the Yamato V2s and 1/48 before and wasn't that impressed with the feel of those either. I'm hoping the HMRs are just a temporary fill-in until something better comes along. 

[Podtastic]

Somewhat agree.

Got the hero valks recently (after our local customs sat on them for nearly 2 months) but so far the Regult is still my fave out of the HMRs.

I'm really hoping that 2018 sees the more frequent release of the exciting Zentraedi mecha , and not just more Valkyrie variants ad nauseam.

[beatsing]

1 hour ago, gingaio said:

So I finally picked up some HMR valks after wading in with the Destroids and the Glaug. Have to say...starting off with the other mecha before moving on to the valks leaves the valks feeling a bit underwhelming. Anticlimactic, to say the least. Granted, the other mecha don't have to transform, and it's because of that, perhaps that they feel so much more robust as toys. The valks just feel a bit chintzy. They look fine on display, but man, I really hope Bandai releases a DX VF-1 soon. I've had the Yamato V2s and 1/48 before and wasn't that impressed with the feel of those either. I'm hoping the HMRs are just a temporary fill-in until something better comes along. 

Exactly.  If the moving parts were made of metal on the valks, they'd be premium and less breakage.  Although the HMR valks haven't broke as much as the V2 VF1 Yammies.  I think Jenius had a broken metal shoulder, and another had a broken part, but most peeps on here have HMR valks that are fine.  

[ScrambledValkyrie]

Does anyone know if the upcoming Regult set with missiles will also come with Tamashii display stands, like the standard Regult did?

I already have the set on PO, just trying to decide if I should perhaps get some additional stands for them. From looking at the descriptions on a few sites, it doesn't look like the stands are included.

[no3Ljm]

53 minutes ago, ScrambledValkyrie said:

Does anyone know if the upcoming Regult set with missiles will also come with Tamashii display stands, like the standard Regult did?

I already have the set on PO, just trying to decide if I should perhaps get some additional stands for them. From looking at the descriptions on a few sites, it doesn't look like the stands are included.

I'm not 100% accurate. But the last line kind of states like it. 

　◎リガード小型ミサイル装備型
　◎リガード大型ミサイル装備型
　・交換用小口径レーザー対空機銃 各１
　・小機銃パーツ予備 各２
　・魂ステージ用ジョイントパーツ 各１
　・専用台座一式 各１

 

[gingaio]

23 hours ago, beatsing said:

Exactly.  If the moving parts were made of metal on the valks, they'd be premium and less breakage.  Although the HMR valks haven't broke as much as the V2 VF1 Yammies.  I think Jenius had a broken metal shoulder, and another had a broken part, but most peeps on here have HMR valks that are fine.  

Yeah, that could help, though if Jenius is the same guy as ScorchedEarthToys (?), then the breakage was, ironically, right on the metal shoulder joint of the VF-1S. Which should tell us that it's more about size than materials or engineering. 

The problem isn't Bandai or its engineering, because it definitely engineered the hell out of this tiny little bastard. The problem is the scale, which isn't big enough to do the classic VF-1 design justice. I mean, you can tell Bandai put a lot of thought into the valkyrie design (the removable antennas to prevent breakage, the numerous hinges that can flex and pop off to also prevent breakage), but because the transformation requires so many moving parts, at this scale it's impossible not to have these flimsy feeling hinges, flaps, and doohickeys, even if they're not necessarily fragile. 

That said, they're good for what they are, and leagues ahead of that Toynami crap. I'm more disappointed in the Yamato/Aracadia valks, in that at such a bigger scale, more could have been done to make the toys feel sturdier. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by gingaio

[beatsing]

44 minutes ago, gingaio said:

Yeah, that could help, though if Jenius is the same guy as ScorchedEarthToys (?), then the breakage was, ironically, right on the metal shoulder joint of the VF-1S. Which should tell us that it's more about size than materials or engineering. 

The problem isn't Bandai or its engineering, because it definitely engineered the hell out of this tiny little bastard. The problem is the scale, which isn't big enough to do the classic VF-1 design justice. I mean, you can tell Bandai put a lot of thought into the valkyrie design (the removable antennas to prevent breakage, the numerous hinges that can flex and pop off to also prevent breakage), but because the transformation requires so many moving parts, at this scale it's impossible not to have these flimsy feeling hinges, flaps, and doohickeys, even if they're not necessarily fragile. 

That said, they're good for what they are, and leagues ahead of that Toynami crap. I'm more disappointed in the Yamato/Aracadia valks, in that at such a bigger scale, more could have been done to make the toys feel sturdier. 

Really good points.   

Yamato and arcadia should include more metal parts for the fragile transforming parts like the V2 shoulders.   Also the design is better in the bandai because of the rails for the shoulders compared with the yammies that lift and rotate the shoulders and put a lot of strain on the shoulders. 

I like both yammies and hmr for different reasons.   The yammies are so awesome on my shelf cuz they are big and detailed .   The hmr valks look awesome with the other hmr mecha on my shelf.   

 

[gingaio]

8 minutes ago, beatsing said:

Really good points.   

Yamato and arcadia should include more metal parts for the fragile transforming parts like the V2 shoulders.   Also the design is better in the bandai because of the rails for the shoulders compared with the yammies that lift and rotate the shoulders and put a lot of strain on the shoulders. 

Absolutely. One big reason I sold and have since stayed away from the Yamatos/Arcadias is because of that stupid shoulder rotation design for transformation. Bandai's design team did a much better job. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by gingaio

[Xigfrid]

Well I agree that the shoulder design could be improved since the first V2, but I can't accept when you say that Bandai's designs are better...

-None off my VF-25 has sturdy shoulders, in battroid mode they just sag down. And I need to put nail polish over and over

-VF-171 CF shoulder mess ... erm ... erm ...

The VF-30 and 31 look solid though, but it seems that the complete mecha were designed specially to make their transformation easier.

[Sildani]

Yeah, the 30 and 31 might well be the first Valkyries to be designed with their future toy version in mind. 

[Lolicon]

"More metal" is the reason the shoulders and thighs suck so hard on the Bandai Frontier toys. 

[sh9000]

beatsing and gingaio are only talking about and comparing the design of the VF-1.

[HardlyNever]

On 9/6/2017 at 1:58 AM, gingaio said:

So I finally picked up some HMR valks after wading in with the Destroids and the Glaug. Have to say...starting off with the other mecha before moving on to the valks leaves the valks feeling a bit underwhelming. Anticlimactic, to say the least. Granted, the other mecha don't have to transform, and it's because of that, perhaps that they feel so much more robust as toys. The valks just feel a bit chintzy. They look fine on display, but man, I really hope Bandai releases a DX VF-1 soon. I've had the Yamato V2s and 1/48 before and wasn't that impressed with the feel of those either. I'm hoping the HMRs are just a temporary fill-in until something better comes along. 

 

I've noticed the same thing.  The rest of the line feels so much more solid compared to the valks.  I still like the HMR valks, but I probably won't get another vf-1.  I think the two big issues are first, they transform, so they need to make some compromises the non-transforming molds don't (like you said).  And probably a bigger factor is that the vf-1s are based on a 2010 mold, and it shows.  I really think they should have updated the HMR vf-1 mold more than they did, as there is clearly a gap in quality between the valks and the rest of the line.

I'm interested to see if the vf-2ss has a feel more in line with the other modern HMR stuff.

Edited September 7, 2017 by HardlyNever

[treatment]

8 hours ago, beatsing said:

Really good points.   

Yamato and arcadia should include more metal parts for the fragile transforming parts like the V2 shoulders.   Also the design is better in the bandai because of the rails for the shoulders compared with the yammies that lift and rotate the shoulders and put a lot of strain on the shoulders.

Hmm.  The issue with the Yammie 1/60v2 first-editions was not really about strain and stuff, but solely the use of the knurled pins. 

After they changed it to non-knurled pins, no more issues nor reports of cracking shoulders ever since. 

 

8 hours ago, gingaio said:

Absolutely. One big reason I sold and have since stayed away from the Yamatos/Arcadias is because of that stupid shoulder rotation design for transformation. Bandai's design team did a much better job. 

I'm not that sure that the Bandai design is any better nor even really more sturdier.

Just a bit more convenient to some people, perhaps.

 

[TheLoneWolf]

On 9/6/2017 at 0:58 AM, gingaio said:

So I finally picked up some HMR valks after wading in with the Destroids and the Glaug. Have to say...starting off with the other mecha before moving on to the valks leaves the valks feeling a bit underwhelming. Anticlimactic, to say the least. Granted, the other mecha don't have to transform, and it's because of that, perhaps that they feel so much more robust as toys. The valks just feel a bit chintzy.

One thing to keep in mind is that the VF-1's are based off old 2010 molds, whereas the rest of the HM-R line are modern designs. Also, the HM-R is supposed to be a flagship line, which is reflected in these newer designs. I don't know what Bandai's intentions were for the 2010 lineup, but they certainly weren't trying to make waves with it. When the HM-R VF-2SS comes out, we'll get a good look at what Bandai can really do transforming with toys at this scale.

[ScrambledValkyrie]

4 hours ago, HardlyNever said:

And probably a bigger factor is that the vf-1s are based on a 2010 mold, and it shows.  I really think they should have updated the HMR vf-1 mold more than they did, as there is clearly a gap in quality between the valks and the rest of the line.

I haven't put my hands on any HMR beyond the VF-1 yet, but I can definitely tell a difference between the HMR VF-1 and the original Hi-Metal VF-1 from 2010. Even if they didn't update the mold, they feel tighter and more solid with better finish to me overall.

I definitely think the fact that the rest of the line doesn't transform has something to do with the way they appear to have better quality. And I agree that the VF-2 will be an interesting study in Bandai's design abilities at this scale.

[gingaio]

5 hours ago, treatment said:

Hmm.  The issue with the Yammie 1/60v2 first-editions was not really about strain and stuff, but solely the use of the knurled pins. 

After they changed it to non-knurled pins, no more issues nor reports of cracking shoulders ever since. 

I'm not that sure that the Bandai design is any better nor even really more sturdier.

Just a bit more convenient to some people, perhaps.

 

While, yes, the knurled pins were the cause of damage, I still don't like having to pull at and stress the rotating joint right simply to clear the tab and convert the arms each time I want to transform the toy. Bandai's method of simply sliding and locking the arms into place is not only more of an elegant solution, but reduces some unnecessary stress on parts. Just my opinion. 

Edited September 7, 2017 by gingaio

[Chronocidal]

It reduces the stress, yes, but I've never gotten an HMR VF-1 transformed without the arms popping off that slider at least a dozen times.  It's just much simpler to detach the arms, and put them back on for gerwalk and battroid, which, since it's not perfect transformation anyway, doesn't really bother me.

It also takes up more room than the Yamato design, which actually limits how you can sweep the wings somewhat, but that's not any real issue so much as just an interesting tidbit.

The Yamato design doesn't cause any stress if you loosen the screw in the backplate though.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Chronocidal

[beatsing]

19 hours ago, sh9000 said:

beatsing and gingaio are only talking about and comparing the design of the VF-1.

Yup, SH9000 got it right exactly.  I was just talking about the VF-1 yammie and HMR. 

I also have the DX line and my VF25 broke on the little plastic hinge that the weight of the crotch and upper body rest on.  I don't mind sagging shoulders so much as breakage on a part that is weight bearing.  It broke while on display without handling for a long period of time.  The DX line is really awesome for metal in some parts, but lacking in some parts.  The same can be said for HMR.  Yamato/Arcadia could use some metal parts.  

I do realize that all manufacturers have good and bad designs, like Takara puts out good (eg MP Optimus) and bad (MP5 Megatron, not the new one) Masterpiece transformers.  

16 hours ago, treatment said:

Hmm.  The issue with the Yammie 1/60v2 first-editions was not really about strain and stuff, but solely the use of the knurled pins. 

After they changed it to non-knurled pins, no more issues nor reports of cracking shoulders ever since. 

 

I'm not that sure that the Bandai design is any better nor even really more sturdier.

Just a bit more convenient to some people, perhaps.

 

So the knurled pins were the culprit, but I still loosened the screw on the shoulders because the clearance was very tight when lifting up and rotating.  The design was too fragile and too tight; I like designs that aren't going to break from normal handling.  I try to be careful with these expensive models but for the money we pay for them, I'd expect them to be built more solidly and not prone to breakage.  I must've transformed the old chunky monkey a zillion times and it was solid (although it was a very simple design unlike the yammie).

It's a good point that the design may be more convenient.  I think a kid could handle the HMR without breaking it, but would more likely break a v2 yammie.  

11 hours ago, gingaio said:

While, yes, the knurled pins were the cause of damage, I still don't like having to pull at and stress the rotating joint right simply to clear the tab and convert the arms each time I want to transform the toy. Bandai's method of simply sliding and locking the arms into place is not only more of an elegant solution, but reduces some unnecessary stress on parts. Just my opinion. 

Exactly.  the sliding rail is an elegant solutuion, and if there were strain, it can pop off without any damage.  The yammie also locks in, but the lock in also is a point of strain as it raises up then pops over the lock in.

10 hours ago, Chronocidal said:

It reduces the stress, yes, but I've never gotten an HMR VF-1 transformed without the arms popping off that slider at least a dozen times.  It's just much simpler to detach the arms, and put them back on for gerwalk and battroid, which, since it's not perfect transformation anyway, doesn't really bother me.

It also takes up more room than the Yamato design, which actually limits how you can sweep the wings somewhat, but that's not any real issue so much as just an interesting tidbit.

The Yamato design doesn't cause any stress if you loosen the screw in the backplate though.

I have popped off the arms, but mostly they stay on.  I slide them back slowly and they stay on pretty well.  This part of the transformation is perfect, although that heat shield makes it not perfect.

Thanks, I've already loosened my yammie screw since one of my VF V2 shoulders disintegrated, but again, that design is not good if we have to mod it.  The part itself should clear the stress point.  

 

[potatotomato]

Anyone care to give some feedback on this line?

Elintseeker is up, i always wanted one together with Ostritch but the Yamato was too expensive.

Price for this Hi Metal ain't cheap, around same price as Yamato back in the old days, size wise i know it's way smaller, so hows it?

[chyll2]

unfortunately, production cost will make the price creep up and Yamato BACK in the old days is a long time already. To put it in perspective, the new VF-2 HMR  is actually close to DX Pricing of yesteryears.

[potatotomato]

14 minutes ago, chyll2 said:

unfortunately, production cost will make the price creep up and Yamato BACK in the old days is a long time already. To put it in perspective, the new VF-2 HMR  is actually close to DX Pricing of yesteryears.

cost aside, how is this lineup compared to Yamato and newer Arcadia line? I know they are smaller 1/100 vs 1/60.

[barurutor]

The VF-1's are fiddly and not perfect transformation (parts-swapping required). Aftermarket prices for certain models (Hikaru 1S, Armored 1J) are rivaling 1/60 scale prices already.

The non-VF mecha (Glaug/Regult/Monster/Spartan/Defender) are solid toys. Decent to great articulation and really fun to pose. Compatibility with Stage Act 5 stands and Tamashii accessories (explosions/craters/lightning/wave effects) means you can build some cool dynamic scenes with these toys.

[potatotomato]

22 minutes ago, barurutor said:

The VF-1's are fiddly and not perfect transformation (parts-swapping required). Aftermarket prices for certain models (Hikaru 1S, Armored 1J) are rivaling 1/60 scale prices already.

The non-VF mecha (Glaug/Regult/Monster/Spartan/Defender) are solid toys. Decent to great articulation and really fun to pose. Compatibility with Stage Act 5 stands and Tamashii accessories (explosions/craters/lightning/wave effects) means you can build some cool dynamic scenes with these toys.

Thanks, maybe i will wait 1 day to get decent Yamato. just wondering do the Yamato parts break like their other stuffs?

 

[auberondreaming]

I really do like these Hi-Metals, but they don't compare at all to the Yamcadias.  Can't disagree more with the build critiques being thrown around at them in this thread  after the shoulder pin issue was addressed.  The 1/60's lock together better in all three modes, and the scale shows off the details better.  I also prefer the Yamcadias shoulder design as the hinge allows for some really dynamic posing.  The 1/100s are fun, but no substitute for the 1/60's.  I have a few 1/48's as well, and I feel like the 1/60 is a better scale for display and playability (though the big guys are pretty awesome!).

[Lorindor]

20 minutes ago, auberondreaming said:

I really do like these Hi-Metals, but they don't compare at all to the Yamcadias.  Can't disagree more with the build critiques being thrown around at them in this thread  after the shoulder pin issue was addressed.  The 1/60's lock together better in all three modes, and the scale shows off the details better.  I also prefer the Yamcadias shoulder design as the hinge allows for some really dynamic posing.

This, plus I think the HMR VF-1 has pretty bad proportions. The nose in Fighter mode is way too short. Also, tabs and grooves for holding everything together in Fighter mode is very noticable on especially the arms in the other modes. It's more of a toy than a display piece. The Yamato/Arcadia 1/60 is still the best VF-1 toy in my opinion.

[Tking22]

The Hi-Metal R valks are far more fun then my older 1/60 and 1/48 stuff :). They're in a funner line as well, more interesting stuff then just the same figure over and over with a new paint scheme. 1/60 were fine for what they were back in the day, but I think this Hi-Metal R scale and these valks are much nicer overall, easier on space, funner to handle and transform, I think the mold is fine for the size. Different strokes I guess. The perfect transformation on the 1/60 and 1/48 never really wowed me, they aren't Transformer figures, they are transforming Macross toys, I'm fine with partsforming.

[technoblue]

For me, the real edge with HM-R isn't with the Valkyries. Most of us have already seen (or have collections made up of) multiple versions of the 1A, 1J, and 1S variants. Beyond that, we don't often get any rare types, so Valkyrie releases quickly become the same figure over and over again at different scales, with different paint schemes, and different packaging. It's hard to get away from that vicious circle unless you can customize something new yourself.  

Where I think Bandai has an edge with HM-R is in making a portable and affordable toy line that includes accessories and clever gimmicks. You get destroids and enemy mecha (which I hope we get more of), as well as Valkyries. Also, there's the non-Macross releases, like Dougram, which I think are really cool too.

I wish that Yamato had been able to release a more complete line of 1/60-scale toys, but it's kind of obvious now (especially with Arcadia's pricing) how cost was an obstacle to that effort. Still, comparing my Yamato v2 1/60 Hikaru VF-1J to my HM-R Hikaru VF-1J, I do think the 1/60 version is better.

I guess all that is to say that I have fun with both my 1/100-scale and 1/60-scale Macross toys. They each scratch a different itch. I might have said it before, but HM-R is like other smaller scale figures (Robot Damashii, Figma, and SH Figuarts for instance): easy to pick up, mess around with, and pose, easy to carry around from place to place--toys that I can use as fun desk distractions at work. My 1/60-scale toys don't fit into that box. They are display pieces that I appreciate at home. I'll have fun making a diorama or putting them into a cool pose and then I'll appreciate that pose for a few days or a few weeks before changing it to something new. With the larger, more expensive stuff it's a different mode of fun altogether. 

Edited September 8, 2017 by technoblue

[Slave IV]

4 hours ago, potatotomato said:

cost aside, how is this lineup compared to Yamato and newer Arcadia line? I know they are smaller 1/100 vs 1/60.

technoblue pretty much nailed it here:

3 minutes ago, technoblue said:

For me, the real edge with HM-R isn't with the Valkyries. Most of us have already seen (or have collections made up of) multiple versions of the 1A, 1J, and 1S variants. Beyond that, we don't often get any rare types, so Valkyrie releases quickly become the same figure over and over again at different scales, with different paint schemes, and different packaging. It's hard to get away from that vicious circle unless you can customize something new yourself.  

Where I think Bandai has an edge with HM-R is in making a portable and affordable toy line that includes accessories and clever gimmicks. You get destroids and enemy mecha (which I hope we get more of), as well as Valkyries. Also, there's the non-Macross releases, like Dougram, which I think are really cool too.

I wish that Yamato had been able to release a more complete line of 1/60-scale toys, but it's kind of obvious now (especially with Arcadia's pricing) how cost was an obstacle to that effort. Still, comparing my Yamato v2 1/60 Hikaru VF-1J to my HM-R Hikaru VF-1J, I do think the 1/60 version is better.

I guess all that is to say that I have fun with both my 1/100-scale and 1/60-scale Macross toys. They each scratch a different itch. I might have said it before, but HM-R is like other smaller scale figures (Robot Damashii, Figma, and SH Figuarts for instance): easy to pick up, mess around with, and pose, easy to carry around from place to place--toys that I can use as fun desk distractions at work. My 1/60-scale toys don't fit into that box. They are display pieces that I appreciate at home. I'll have fun making a diorama or putting them into a cool pose and then appreciating that pose for a few days or a few weeks before changing it to something new. With the larger, more expensive stuff it's a different mode of fun altogether. 

 

Here's another way to put it:

If you want a more refined and substantial collector's item VF-1, nothing beats the Yamato or Arcadia versions. They are very well made compared to any similar transforming toys and I don't think you would break them unless you put deliberate force where you should not. Pretty standard for a high end, intricate collectible toy.

If you want toys you can fiddle with often and have tons of "pewpew" moments with opposing forces and supporting mecha, HMR is the finest line of Macross toys to ever come out for that purpose.

Like many others, I saw no need to buy just an HMR VF-1 valk so I resisted the line...until the Regults showed up. Then the Glaug, Destroids and so on. Only regret I have now is I should have bought in right off the bat.

Comparing just the Valks, I don't see either as being more delicate than the other. If anything, I got one HMR VF-1 (Hikaru's plain 1J version) that seemed a bit shoddy but other than that, they are all very well made products for their given sizes and intricacies. 

Both have very strong appeal to me so I'm screwed in that I can't choose, I buy them all!

[sumyumgoy]

19 minutes ago, Slave IV said:

Both have very strong appeal to me so I'm screwed in that I can't choose, I buy them all!

+1 ... I've tried to convince myself that I should just stay in one scale but to no avail.  My largest "win" is cancelling the HMR anniversary release...

 

[Sanity is Optional]

2 minutes ago, sumyumgoy said:

+1 ... I've tried to convince myself that I should just stay in one scale but to no avail.  My largest "win" is cancelling the HMR anniversary release...

 

Just put the different scales on different shelves and call it a day.

[Boobytrap]

If the only thing released for HMR were the VF-1's it would be no contest. Yamacadia would win hands down (for me it is better in every way) and I'd never own an HMR. The problem for my wallet is that the VF-1 isn't the only thing in the HMR line. We already have multiple things that were never made for the 1/60 line. If it continues to sell well we may get things that have never been made in any scale. That's too much good stuff to pass up so I've just resigned myself to collecting two lines.

Edited September 8, 2017 by Boobytrap

[EmilianoAlfaro]

1 hour ago, Boobytrap said:

If the only thing released for HMR were the VF-1's it would be no contest. Yamacadia would win hands down (for me it is better in every way) and I'd never own an HMR. The problem for my wallet is that the VF-1 isn't the only thing in the HMR line. We already have multiple things that were never made for the 1/60 line. If it continues to sell well we may get things that have never been made in any scale. That's too much good stuff to pass up so I've just resigned myself to collecting two lines.

 

Completely agree. It is the same reason why I have acquired the entire Hi-Metal R line. The possibility of obtaining a complete line of models and not only the VF1s is very important for me. Also the option to be able to buy effects and displays to expose is not a minor fact, always hate the lack of displays for 1/60 models. If Bandai continues to release more enemy mecha and complete the line of VFs I think the investment will be worth it, it's a bet.

[ZorClone]

For me the deciding factor of Arcadia vs HMR is what I already own.  If I already have it from Yamato, I won't buy it in HMR unless it's the canon fodder stuff, as I'm using HMR mostly for small scale army building with the non hero units.  If it comes out HMR and I don't have it already from Yamato, then I'll get the HMR.

Also, I discovered some old Micro Machines soldiers in the closet recently and they seem to scale pretty well with the HMR VF-1s, lol.  If I can find a better spot to set them out for a better picture I'll take another one.