So I watched the 2 frontier movies, no subs, didn't know what'

[Keith]

Fantasy...

[A_Man_and_a_Woman?!]

What about Macross Zero? The dogfights in those OVAs were pretty intense.

Plus and Zero definitely had the best dogfights IMO. But the dogfight between Max and Mirya in SDFM is still number one in my heart because it just looks flat out rad.

"Run little man, run..."

*forgive me for using the Hobotech clip*

OMG... pineapple salad...

[VF-15 Banshee]

Exactly!! Right on the target!!

Except for the less contempt thing. Still can't accept F series ending, therefore won't watch it until the next series has a satisfying closure, then I'll backtrack.

Well, I would still say that you should watch the movies when you get a hold of copies with subtitles. Sure we've told you what was going on but I've run into the same thing with Macross 30 and I'm still figuring out some of the stuff they're saying.

You also shouldn't let anything you dislike about the movies stop you from watching the TV series. It's a completely different thing.

As for my own self, I had absolutely no problems with the movies and they way they ended. Is that because I'd already watched the TV show? Eh maybe, but I still think I would have accepted them.

[Saruta]

I made sure my 12 year old son watched Macross and DYRL before Frontier and he had the same reaction to the nods that Frontier gave to it's predecessors from the Ranka rescue to the SMS pilots doing Isamu's hand thing, ie. he spazzed with enjoyment. He pretty much hated Zero except for the dogfights. Plus kinda weirded him out. I don't know if I can put him through 7 because I didn't like it- except for the Max/Mirya stuff.

My view: give him 7 before it's too late. Unless it's already too late. As in, he may already be too old.

Macross 7 is made for boys. My 9 year old son loved every moment of it. He did not notice the cheesiness and the stock footage at all.

[A_Man_and_a_Woman?!]

My view: give him 7 before it's too late. Unless it's already too late. As in, he may already be too old.

Macross 7 is made for boys. My 9 year old son loved every moment of it. He did not notice the cheesiness and the stock footage at all.

I'll give 7 a shot for him. My whole family is anticipating the next TV series!

[Vepariga]

Alto left with the Vajra becuase he knew they would be better company then to have Sheryl hanging around everyday.

[skullmilitia]

Still complaining about Macross being Macross I see... why hasn't this been moved to the newbie forum yet?

[jenius]

I just rewatched DYRL on a flight and I can see that there are a few more scenes than I initially recalled that really do help if you've seen the original show. I would still contend that having seen the show is in no way a prerequisite but it does help more than I remembered. For example, Hikaru and Minmay find fish floating inside the engine block. If you hadn't seen the original series that would be pretty bizarre because DYRL doesn't give you any indication under what pretenses the SDF-1 got to Saturn and why it's on a mission to return to Earth. Even as it is it's a little bizarre since that stuff would probably all be rotting since, unlike the show, it wasn't hauled in from space. I would also add that the way everyone gets captured seems pretty forced. WTF is Misa doing with Minmay's brother in some oddball shuttle craft? If they knew Hikaru was out there wouldn't they just radio him and be like "Get your b*tch a*s to the brig right now"? On a side note, I failed to absorb that there's a cameo of the VF-1D in DYRL. It's scrap sitting in front of the Prometheus. Still a great movie although you could construe Minmay's freak-out as leading to the death of millions. Had she just hung out near the bridge waiting for the big show and not pursued Hikaru until after the battle then Boldoza probably wouldn't have gone genocidal and the Meltrans might have capitulated. Ah well, it all worked out in the end (except for the millions that didn't make it to the end).

[Kanedas Bike]

I just rewatched DYRL on a flight and I can see that there are a few more scenes than I initially recalled that really do help if you've seen the original show. I would still contend that having seen the show is in no way a prerequisite but it does help more than I remembered. For example, Hikaru and Minmay find fish floating inside the engine block. If you hadn't seen the original series that would be pretty bizarre because DYRL doesn't give you any indication under what pretenses the SDF-1 got to Saturn and why it's on a mission to return to Earth. Even as it is it's a little bizarre since that stuff would probably all be rotting since, unlike the show, it wasn't hauled in from space. I would also add that the way everyone gets captured seems pretty forced. WTF is Misa doing with Minmay's brother in some oddball shuttle craft? If they knew Hikaru was out there wouldn't they just radio him and be like "Get your b*tch a*s to the brig right now"? On a side note, I failed to absorb that there's a cameo of the VF-1D in DYRL. It's scrap sitting in front of the Prometheus. Still a great movie although you could construe Minmay's freak-out as leading to the death of millions. Had she just hung out near the bridge waiting for the big show and not pursued Hikaru until after the battle then Boldoza probably wouldn't have gone genocidal and the Meltrans might have capitulated. Ah well, it all worked out in the end (except for the millions that didn't make it to the end).

Yeah, but I think you could say that for most/all of the Macross movies that have come after a respective OVA or TV Series. There are story/plot, Easter Eggs and details that seem odd or out of place if one hasn't seen the series or original first.

Sincere apologies if I misunderstood the gist of your post but just like there are things that seem out of place in DYRL unless there is familiarity from SDFM the same can be said for the Frontier Movies and corresponding TV series as well.

-b.

[jenius]

No worries, I probably should have quoted my prior comments on DYRL? I said previously that DYRL functions very well as a stand alone film but is better with a knowledge of the original show. My argument was that the Frontier movies really don't even function on their own and a knowledge of the original series is essential. I'm just admitting now that while I still think DYRL? does an admirable job of being a good movie without having seen the original show, there was more content in there then I had remembered that referenced events that were totally off screen and not spoken about. Then I did some rambling about DYRL which was kind of irrelevant but since I had just finished watching it I felt like talking about it .

I think what still kills me about the Frontier movies is that they could have been one movie and been awesome. Instead it was two movies where they both suck independently and muster up a "okay" if you watch them as one tediously long movie. I'm guessing it was because of budget constraints and the desire to reuse as much animation as possible. They could have made this generation's DYRL? but they didn't.

[Gubaba]

I think what still kills me about the Frontier movies is that they could have been one movie and been awesome. Instead it was two movies where they both suck independently and muster up a "okay" if you watch them as one tediously long movie. I'm guessing it was because of budget constraints and the desire to reuse as much animation as possible. They could have made this generation's DYRL? but they didn't.

I'm not sure it was budget constraints as much as it was time. Renato has mentioned before that he thinks the second movie was the one they really WANTED to make, and I agree. The first movie is the only one with reused footage, so they used that to buy time to make the second one.

That said, I really liked the Frontier movies. The first one isn't great, but the new battles and "Universal Bunny" are wonderful. And the second one really blew me away in the theater... even when I saw it for the fourth time, and it was 4:00 AM.

[SchizophrenicMC]

So I just watched False Songstress for the first time today, having watched Wings of Goodbye some time ago. Am I alone in preferring the general plot of the movies over the at-times convoluted, often-poorly-paced plot of the series? I mean there are some things I don't like about the movies- that ending was completely frustrating. (Though I can understand Alto leaving because there's no way to work out that love triangle at all, and the vajra seem pretty supportive of his acting, even if they're not huge fans of his flying hobby)

I can see how somebody would be frustrated without knowing what the dialogue was, but more frustrating than that is how the dialogue doesn't really shed any more light than the animation does, which isn't much at all.

But yeah, I'll definitely take the trade-off of Michael and Alto. At least Michael is likable as a character.

[jenius]

I guess I would say the movies certainly didn't do any worse at solving all the issues with the Galaxy subplot... sadly, and fairly remarkably, the didn't do it much better.

[SchizophrenicMC]

Yeah, the Galaxy subplot is kind of totally missed in both, but I think they handled a lot of things better in the movies. Alto doesn't seem as shitty throughout it all, and Grace actually has a character. Michael lives, though we do miss out on the "I'm afraid to love you" thing that really adds to his womanizer character. Luca actually has a family now, and doesn't spend every waking moment ogling Nanase and developing special bombs. I also like that they didn't bother with the vajra-adapt-to-attacks thing. The pacing is a lot better in the movies, with the proportion of time spent on each of the major plot points working out far more smoothly than how long the series spends on stuff that hardly advances the plot, while jumping right through whatever events would move it forward. I also liked a lot of the new animation for the VFs- that's probably the most chicken walker stuff we've ever seen a Gerwalk do, in that scene at the beginning of Wings of Goodbye. The reimagining of the jet-powered street ice ballet was also pretty fun, though I could go for either Ex-Gear or Gerwalk in that scene.

All in all, the movies can't really stand on their own without the series, but they do handle a lot of what the series messed up a lot better. They also screw the ending up about as hard, but then Kawamori really likes to do that. I wonder if Hikaru, Shin, and Alto are having a beer in a cantina somewhere.

[Renato]

Pfft. I like to pop in the second movie and watch the action and concert scenes, I still believe they are fantastic audio-visual entertainment.

If I were to guess at where the hate for the movies is coming from, I'd say it was probably due to people's love for the TV series, and that the very idea of a reimagining is a betrayal of sorts. This seems to tie in with the whole obsession for canonocity, too.

[jenius]

Pfft. I like to pop in the second movie and watch the action and concert scenes, I still believe they are fantastic audio-visual entertainment.

If I were to guess at where the hate for the movies is coming from, I'd say it was probably due to people's love for the TV series, and that the very idea of a reimagining is a betrayal of sorts. This seems to tie in with the whole obsession for canonocity, too.

No... again I'd point you to DYRL? People love DYRL? even though it changes huge swaths of the story and throws the notion of 'canon' out the window. I hate the Frontier movies because neither can stand on its own and many of the weaknesses of the show (like the Galaxy subplot) which could have/should have been cleaned up and made far less obtuse due to the plotting necessary in a movie are instead muddled in different ways to still be unsatisfactory. There's also some goofy moments like a surfing MacQuarter but those are more nitpick territory. There approach to the movies just seems conflicted. At points you wonder why they're sticking so close to the TV plot and then at other times things get sort of turned on their heads. At the end of the day, it should have been one movie. They could have released "Flashback 2050" or whatever if they felt they wanted to do another 10 minutes of concert footage. I do agree that the second movie has some cool scenes in it... but that's hardly saying the end product is good. I love some scenes in Macross Zero too.

[Renato]

I agree it probably should have just been one movie (then again, as Gubaba mentioned, I have gone over that at length in the past). And it does have cool scenes in it. However, that's really all I care about, so I have no problem with any deviations from some overly convoluted plot about kabuki dancers, mad scientists and panty-chasers in space. I don't miss things I never liked anyway. Just do what I do and watch the scenes you like, skip the rest and you'll see your stress level go down easy. Hey, not every album is a greatest hits compilation.

That said, surfing battleships are cool no matter how you slice it. I would reserve "goofy" for most of the TV show....

Edited October 12, 2014 by Renato

[SchizophrenicMC]

Transforming giant robot space ships is goofy in general. As much as I didn't dig the surfing MacQ, I can deal with it.

I'm heavily conflicted by the resolution of the love triangle in the movie. On the one hand, it's good to see a break from the childhood-friend-wins-the-love thing, on the other, he and Sheryl went on a couple dates and now he's totally in love with her? This was maybe the one time the childhood friend actually had a realistic advantage, but whatever.

Still, though, that Gerwalk chicken walking. So awkward, so amazing.

[Kanedas Bike]

Now I feel like I need to re-watch the series and the movies.

And Jenius, I agree that DYRL works better than the Frontier movies if looked at purely as a stand-alone film without a prior series or knowledge of events.

As far as events and endings from the series to movies, I don't know if it was in this thread or another, but someone coined a phrase of "head-cannon" taking the events you like the best and making them what "actually" happened. I'm just going to do that re: Frontier.

-b.

[Nekko Basara]

As far as events and endings from the series to movies, I don't know if it was in this thread or another, but someone coined a phrase of "head-cannon" taking the events you like the best and making them what "actually" happened. I'm just going to do that re: Frontier.

-b.

Not to be pedantic, but let's make that "head-canon," since we are in a fandom where many of the mecha actually have head cannons in various numbers denoting model/rank. ;-)

[Scyla]

I haven't watched the two Frontier movies yet (is the BluRay set with subs still in print?) but DYRL would've confused the crap out of me if I hadn't watched the tv-show first. I need to show DYRL to some friends who don't know the tv-show to see if they can follow the plot.

[Tochiro]

The Frontier Shudisuta BD boxset is still fairly readily available. I almost picked up a second copy yesterday actually :-)

[Marzan]

The Frontier Shudisuta BD boxset is still fairly readily available. I almost picked up a second copy yesterday actually :-)

Tochiro: With your knowledge of the Japanese market , does the availability of the Shudista boxset indicate that sales were lower than expected? I’m just under the impression that these kinds of editions disappear from retail rather quickly

[Keith]

It was the second BD release in a fairly short period of time. At the prices they go for, the Japanese market has to hedge somewhat. As an export, they could have sold so many morw copies here (if we were anywhere tatgeted] sans artbooks, at half-ish the price.

Something comparable with the Plus set.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Keith

[Scyla]

The Frontier Shudisuta BD boxset is still fairly readily available. I almost picked up a second copy yesterday actually :-)

This is the one right?

https://www.nippon-yasan.com/japanese-video-games-playstation-3/6450-ps3-the-movie-macross-f-30th-d-shudisuta-b-box-limited-edition.html

I'm looking for the bluray version.

[Kanedas Bike]

Not to be pedantic, but let's make that "head-canon," since we are in a fandom where many of the mecha actually have head cannons in various numbers denoting model/rank. ;-)

Agreed, good catch!

-b.